Abortion (Blog)

[Erin Pavlina]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Erin Pavlina's blog:

Abortion

[Akashic_Librarian]

Ahh you see this is where I disagree with Erin. I think Abortion is a right any parent has, both male and female must make a mutual decision (unless its rape or damaging to the mothers health etc..) If they wanted a baby, but then the either one gets fired from their job, then I think its perfectly acceptable to get an abortion. If the child will be mentally ill, or physically ill to the point where it will affect their daily lives so much they need constant care, and constant attention, then I think its OK to abort them, in fact, I think its selfish to keep them alive.

I don't think there would be spiritual reprecussions in this instance. I think life begins as the baby leaves the womb. Up until that moment, its not conscious in my opinion. Its obviously alive, its alive from day 0, but when are you truly conscious? When are your earliest memories? age 3 - 5 I imagine for most people...

Its complicated, and I know a lot of people, will have a lot of opinions...

[Dannyboy1]

and to the peole who were giving her advice.

I don't believe anyone who has not had a child themselves has any right to offer you advice. I was pro choice until I had my child and now I thank God every day we never seriously considered abortion even though we had only been dating a year. It's easy to be pro choice when you haven't met your child yet, but make no mistake, you are stopping a life. This baby will never be born again. You will find a way if you have this baby. If you don't want the baby, there are many people who can't have children who will love you forever for having it. You created this being, you owe it to them to at least give them nine months of your life to give them a chance.

To anyone who's never had a child, I ask you to consider the fact that you do not have the experience to make this decision for someone else. Think about times when an experience transformed you into a totally opposite way of thinking. So much so, that when you try and change your friends minds, they cannot and even refuse to believe you. You've become enlightened in a way that they cannot possibly understand until they go through it. I cannot possibly explain the experience of having a child to you, but I can ask you to realize that if you did have the experience of having a child, you would definitely not take this decision as lightly as you are right now. I have never met a person who would ever consider having an abortion once they've had a child.

One more thing. When we found out we were having a baby, I was expressing my nervousness to an aquaintence I had know for a couple of years. I told him we were broke and I had no work and I wasn't sure I was ready, but we were going to have the baby anyway. He looked into my eyes with tears in his and he said, "We have been trying to have a child for years and we can't seem to make it happen. Please, give him to us. If you don't feel you can take care of him, give him to us." he then turned and walked away crying.

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Ahh you see this is where I disagree with Erin. I think Abortion is a right any parent has, both male and female must make a mutual decision (unless its rape or damaging to the mothers health etc..) If they wanted a baby, but then the either one gets fired from their job, then I think its perfectly acceptable to get an abortion. If the child will be mentally ill, or physically ill to the point where it will affect their daily lives so much they need constant care, and constant attention, then I think its OK to abort them, in fact, I think its selfish to keep them alive.

I don't think there would be spiritual reprecussions in this instance. I think life begins as the baby leaves the womb. Up until that moment, its not conscious in my opinion. Its obviously alive, its alive from day 0, but when are you truly conscious? When are your earliest memories? age 3 - 5 I imagine for most people...

Its complicated, and I know a lot of people, will have a lot of opinions...

[Matthew Shea]

Erin, you have a very well balanced view. I'm in complete agreement.

[NotesMaeve]

Erin, outstanding summary.

There are consequences to ending a life, despite the fact in can be a helpful decision in the context. So I guess my question is this: How do we support a spiritually sensitive woman who had an abortion and is feeling the aftershock of this?

[Andrew Brunelle]

Abortion can be a touchy subject. I do not judge those who choose to have one, nor do I encourage those who have not to have one. You're right, Erin. If it comes down to love and fear, I can totally respect a loving abortion over a fear abortion. It is an act of what Steve would probably call 'polarized abortions.' It is all in the energy you put behind it that makes it a light act or a dark act. Great post.

[lizthefair]

This is a nice take on an important discussion. I think where it really gets dicey is when we consider whether women get to decide for themselves how to proceed--in love or in fear. Personally I think that grownups get to make their own choices, and live with the consequences.

I wish we could spend even 1/2 the energy currently focused on forcing people into one decision or the other after the fact on (as Erin says) eliminating the circumstances that lead women to choose abortion. If your goal is to "save babies" that's where the real leverage is.

[Erin Pavlina]

Originally Posted by lizthefair

This is a nice take on an important discussion. I think where it really gets dicey is when we consider whether women get to decide for themselves how to proceed--in love or in fear. Personally I think that grownups get to make their own choices, and live with the consequences.

Whoever makes the decision bears the responsibility and the karma.

Originally Posted by lizthefair

I wish we could spend even 1/2 the energy currently focused on forcing people into one decision or the other after the fact on (as Erin says) eliminating the circumstances that lead women to choose abortion. If your goal is to "save babies" that's where the real leverage is.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I really think fertility should be taught in high school, maybe even started in junior high. I know that in high school I had no idea what time of the month I was fertile.

[Erin Pavlina]

Supporting a woman who has chosen an abortion...

In the case of the woman who used abortion as birth control, regret is the beginning of growth.

In the case of the woman who chose abortion because of an act of love, remind her that her child's soul is intact and safe, it may yet incarnate as one of her children in the future, and to forgive herself for what happened. Healing any sadness that remains would be next.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

In the case of the woman who chose abortion because of an act of love, remind her that her child's soul is intact and safe, it may yet incarnate as one of her children in the future, and to forgive herself for what happened. Healing any sadness that remains would be next.

Outstanding advice.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Erin Pavlina's blog:

Abortion

I wholeheartedly agree with your blog! It cannot be put much better than that. The whole argument about abortion would never have to happen if we educated our people and pushed them to be responsible BEFORE they get pregnant and to realize the ramifications if they get pregnant. Irresponsible abortions are a terrible tragedy due to ignorance.

[dali]

I found your article very interesting but still cant make up my mind. Having been brought up Catholic I cannot seem to get rid of the idea that abortion is wrong. I have talked two women I know out of aborting their babies in my lifetime. Both of these women have come to thank me. Once in fact one of the girls who would have been aborted thanked me for talking her mother out of it. She had been told at some point by her mother that abortion had been considered and the story of how her friend, a gay man ,had managed to talk her out of it.They both bumped into me in the street one day about sixteen years later and thanked me together telling me with great joy in their faces that they thought of each other as the best thing that had ever happened to each other in their lives!!

I have known women who have aborted their babies and have seen great suffering in them. Once I went to a hospital to meet a friend to help her home after she had had an abortion. I dont think I have ever been witness to a lonelier scene.As she left the hospital she said goodbye to the two nurses who had assisted at the procedure. I saw her do this. They did not notice her and unwittingly did not acknowledge her. In my work in the past too I have been involved with women who were trying to deal with the aftermath of abortion. It is such a difficult subject and I would never point the finger at anyone in relation to it. I have encountered a few callous health practitioners though but never a woman who took this course of action lightly. I liked your article, Erin but our spiritual understandings differ considerably and my Catholic appreciation of life although considerably sympathetic with yours is not quite in accord and I do not have the freedom in my beliefs to accept abortion as an act of love although I get your point and honour it. I guess its because we think the soul is present from conception. Sometimes though I wonder if its just fear that keeps me "stuck" with this belief, However I am not a closed book (yet!) and have as illustrated been present to a few women one time or another for whom abortion has been an issue. Hopefully though in a loving, supportive way.I am heartened by your article as I do feel protective of souls coming into the world . It must be quite a journey from heaven to the womb.Mothers are such WONDERFUL beings.