Abortion (Blog)

[Chet]

Well we find it completely acceptable to let people die slowly and in great pain from things like cancer even when they are proven fully consious and aware and we don't even know that about a fetus.

[Megan]

Causing or allowing any sentient creature to die in great pain is something we need to re-think and re-feel, I believe.

The hospice movement has made great strides in raising our consciousness about palliative care, I think.

It seems to me that if we start to give the unborn anesthesia before tearing them limb from limb, that will 'humanize' them to the point where we'll have to think of a human head as a human head, rather than "number 1" before we crush it.

I think that would also be a stride forward in consciousness.

Over the past twenty years, the focus on a patient's quality of life has gained substantial ground. Today in the United States, 55% of U.S. hospitals with over 100 beds offer a palliative care program and nearly one-fifth of community hospitals have palliative care programs.

A relatively recent development is the concept of a dedicated health care team that is entirely geared toward palliative treatment, called a palliative care team.

Palliative care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Erin Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Megan

Causing or allowing any sentient creature to die in great pain is something we need to re-think and re-feel, I believe.

This is actually one of the reasons that Steve and I are vegans.

[Megan]

OlderWiser, I want to make it clear to you that I put great importance on the suffering you have endured as well.

I endured sexual, emotional and physical abuse as a child, and have felt like an emotional black hole for much of my life.

I hope that we can develop compassion as a culture for the suffering of all sentient creatures, and I believe that will raise the quality of life for everyone.

Megan

[Megan]

Erin, thanks for bringing that up. I have been vegetarian, mostly vegan, for many years, but lately I've been heartstruck about the pain the egg and dairy industries inflict on innocent creatures, and feeling that I don't want to participate in that at all.

I realize that in some cultures, people could not survive without animal products.

Also, when I'm a guest, I eat what's set before me and enjoy it.

[Angela]

Dozens of studies, including those done at the University of San Francisco, show that although fetuses begin forming pain sensors during the 8th week of gestation, the thalamus is not formed until 20 weeks later. The thalamus is the part of the brain that routes information to other areas, and without it, no information can reach the cortex for processing.

I recognize that anti-choicers maintain other arguments, but the argument that 1st or 2nd trimester abortions cause suffering to sentient beings doesn't hold water.

At the third trimester, I would agree that's too late for an abortion.

[Megan]

I agree that the third trimester is a good place to start discussing the moral issue of causing pain to sentient beings, Angela.

I hope Erin does a blog on circumcision some day, because that issue highlights this one, I believe.

Apart from the moral issues of mutilating an infant's intact body without his consent, many circumcisions are still done without anesthesia.

[oberlee]

Originally Posted by Angela

I recognize that anti-choicers maintain other arguments, but the argument that 1st or 2nd trimester abortions cause suffering to sentient beings doesn't hold water.

At the third trimester, I would agree that's too late for an abortion.

I completely agree. Also, you should definitely know you're pregnant by the second trimester, if not before, and if you've waited to do something about it, well, then I agree, you should take responsibility, have the baby and either give it love by keeping it, or give it to another family.

[Dan.Linehan]

from BLISS the premature baby charity...

Babies born at 23 weeks have a 17 per cent chance of survival
Babies born at 24 weeks have a 39 per cent chance of survival
Babies born at 25 weeks have a 50 per cent chance of survival
Twenty years ago, approx 20% of babies weighing less than 1,000gms (2lb 2oz) at birth survived. Nowadays, about 80% survive.

I don't know about life, but survival seems to begin around the 3rd trimester (24 weeks).

[Chinese Dragon]

I apologize for being so harsh in this thread. I'm a Christian, Catholic to be specific, and so have a very Christian view on abortion. Part of the reason I oppose it beyond the point that is reasonable in a forum is that I known many people, my age and older, both male and female, who have an extreme opposition to abortion. I didn't have this by default but some of their attitudes rubbed off on me. Some of them take it so far to say that anyone doing anything that has to do with sex for any reason other than having children is committing a sin. They also don't believe that a couple can let science assist them in having children via external conception because "it's not natural" Others believe that it's bad to be around any member of the opposite sex alone. In a nutshell, they oppose everything God stands against, but also what he doesn't explicitly stand for. I'm not as extreme as them, and in some subjects even dissagree with the majority of the Catholic Church, but the subject of abortion does make me angry. I'm sorry for venting my anger here, it's very unlike me to be disrespectful or dogmatic and hope I don't start any more arguments. It was aspiring to clarity's post that prompted me to apolgize, because like you said I don't know the other side's point of view. Most of the world's problems would be solved if everyone saw it different, and it's great that you make a consious effort to do so. And please nobody think that because of my age I usually respond like I did, I once made a list of reasons why I am not the average 15 year old by any stretch of the imagination. Most of the time I try to respect other people's beliefs even if I don't believe the same things they do, but this time I snapped. I would have apologized last night but the subject of this thread put me into a bad mood. If it weren't for posts being more neutral on this page I probably wouldn't have made this post.

I agree with Megan, you should do a blog post on circumcision, Erin. I oppose circumcision without consent, but not in the way I oppose abortion.

Again, I'm sorry for losing my cool, I shouldn't have gotten involved in this thread the way I did.

[Erin Pavlina]

It's cool, Chinese Dragon. You seem very mature for a 15 year old. I'm sure we can all apprecaite your zeal.

I have strong feelings on circumcision but not sure I'll post a blog entry about it. We'll see... Thanks for the idea though megan.

[Chet]

Some of you might find this article on abortion enlightening - I certainly did.
Daily Kos: "The Only Moral Abortion Is My Abortion"

[oberlee]

Chinese Dragon, thank you for explaining yourself (quite eloquently, more so than the average 35-year old) and your situation. I grew up Catholic, too, although my household was pro-choice, so I just had conflicting things stirring within me when I was 15. I remember having someone come to our CCD (aka, Sunday School, not on Sunday) and show us the horrors of abortion, and feeling very conflicted.

For the record, I think you have EVERY RIGHT to believe what you believe. It's a totally viable viewpoint. Like came up earlier, for instance, killing animals for food. I see why that bothers others, but it doesn't bother me. I have a line drawn where others don't, and it's as solid an opinion as mine is. We all get heated up about abortion because it is, well, sensitive, and many people have personal experience with it, and others don't, but have a strong moral idea about it. Like, I don't believe in the death penalty morally, but if someone killed my child, would I want them dead? Hmmm... Don't know.

Not to say the situations are the same, but I think abortion is an argument that goes around in circles because each side is arguing a different issue, and yet everyone is intending the best for society (well, usually, but in this thread, yes). I live in the San Francisco area, and grew up in the Boston area, so also, my environment was totally different than others. Anecdote: my ex-boyfriend from Oklahoma came to college in Boston and would wear a Pro-Life tee shirt in public, and he didn't understand when I told him he might get beaten up, because in his environment, it was totally cool, like saying, "Go Green!" or whatever, but it Boston, it was a RED FLAG.

Anyway, I don't discredit you for being 15; I credit you and respect you for your intelligence and your eloquence and your integrity. Keep it up.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Chinese Dragon, looking back at my post, I think I could have said what I wanted to say a little more sensitively. I definitely agree that you are not an average 15 year old boy. I think that pretty much everyone gets heated up on this topic, so your zeal is not really the issue to me. I meant to make clear that I was of exactly the same mind as you at your age and argued just as ardently. I think it's always hard for me to listen to a guy's opinion on something related to pregnancy and childbirth because of his total lack of ability to fully understand it...but THAT IS MY PROBLEM, NOT YOURS (I am shouting at myself). I did not mean to say your opinion was invalid at all. I apologize if I came across as condescending. It's something I need to work on.

I am opposed to abortion in the sense that I don't like it, I would never do it and it hurts me to think of babies dying. I do believe that life begins at conception, a major hold-over from my early indoctination but something I have also questioned for myself and still believe. I still believe in choice since I wouldn't want the government to legislate the things I choose to do, but I also would do whatever I could to lessen the need. It's a fine line to walk, at least for me.

[Megan]

Is is just my imagination, or are people of differing viewpoints dialoguing respectfully on the Internet, right here on Erin's abortion thread?

How cool is that!?

Evolution seems to be working nicely.

Or, if you prefer, God is in his heaven, and all is well on earth.

[oberlee]

VERY cool... the thing is, this is not any ol' forum page, it's Erin's and she rocks, and we're all here on this forum to make sense of ourselves, and we're all believers of, or at least interested in, spirituality. In other words, we're out to better ourselves and the world, and we're trying to come together instead of distancing ourselves.

Yay. It's nice to see some love in an abortion thread.

[Matthew Shea]

That's what consistently amazes me about this forum. Very sensitive or even adult topics can be openly discussed without the thread devolving into a shouting match or falling into the gutter. It's probably the most mature forum I've ever seen. It's certainly a credit to Erin and Steve.

[Erin Pavlina]

Thank you all for the sincere compliments. We have found in our experience that the tone the owners of the forum set is indicative of the tone the users will adopt. And it means a lot to us to be able to discuss anything with respect, compassion, understanding, and an open-mind. And we are both very impressed and in love with our readers/visitors. We feel honored and blessed to be running a board where people are so wonderful. So kudos to you all as well!

[Lola]

Originally Posted by Megan

Is is just my imagination, or are people of differing viewpoints dialoguing respectfully on the Internet, right here on Erin's abortion thread?

How cool is that!?

It's VERY cool! I just caught up on the last several posts on this thread. Sheesh - y'all gave me chills!

I always steer far clear of any abortion related discussions IRL because I find them to rarely be true (open, connecting, sharing, respectful, considerate) conversations but rather emotionally fueled, personal view of morality laden, verbal rampages on how everyone should subscribe to the speaker's viewpoint.

As usual, a horse of a different color grazes in this particular corral.

Thanks Erin, Steve, and fellow forum members for a building it.

[Megan]

I agree, Lola, people are saying how they really feel, but there remains a sense of community.

This is how things can be!

And yes, thank you Erin, Steve, fellow forum members, the Law of Attraction, or, if you prefer, God, and all benevolent powers of the Universe that make happy things possible.

[openeyes]

I'd been hesitant to comment on the topic of abortion because it so often does become an inflammatory issue where little communication really occurs. Since that may not be the case here, I'll chime in with my views as a young single white male.

Just the thought of a girlfriend being pregnant with our child and opting for abortion brings tears to my eyes. It would be hard for everyone, and I'd do everything I could to have the chance to raise him/her, even if it isn't the most convenient time in my life right now.

As mentioned before, at this point I would only consider intercourse with a woman I feel I could happily raise a child with. I don't try to get anyone pregnant, but I see it as an inherent possibility, regardless of protection used. I'd rather be celibate or get a vasectomy than deal with an abortion (and men do have to deal with abortions, even though they have no choice in the matter).

I consider life, on some level, to begin at conception if not before (going all the way back through our ancestors). Given that life can only be created from life (basic biology), there's no point at which one can say life has yet to enter it, though exactly what type of life it is at first is open to interpretation.

Whether pain would be involved in the killing or not wouldn't be a deciding factor for me, just as being able to painlessly kill a healthy full grown human wouldn't make it okay to me if it was without his/her consent. Still the info about the thalamus was interesting. I hadn't read about that before.

That said, I don't feel like I can decide this issue for anyone else. Few people treat abortion lightly.

[HumbleDee]

Originally Posted by oberlee

In a black and white world, abortion sounds wrong because it sounds like murder. Chinese Dragon makes the case that you never know when the soul is bound to the body...but why assume it's at conception? If you’re saying killing life is wrong, well, what constitutes “life?” An egg is alive, and so is sperm. Just because something happens, to make another thing happen to make another, ultimately resulting in a fully-formed human child, where do you draw the line? “Life” was always there. We can’t know when consciousness was, either. So, should we “save” all the potential life out there? What about if you have unprotected sex and you DON’T get pregnant? Should I be blamed for the “loss” of that life, albeit a potential life? What if I have protected sex and DO get pregnant, and still choose to have an abortion? What about the eggs that DON’T get fertilized every month? What about the gazillions of sperm that die from lack of meeting with that one perfect egg?

Oberlee, if we are discussing murder, it’s not just the taking of life; it’s the taking of "another human" life. So the question is not when life begins, but when another human is created. Science can offer DNA evidence. Through DNA science can tell whom the sperms and egg belong to. Science can tell the father of an unborn child through DNA. At the moment of conception a new human is formed, that share his/her DNA from the mother and the father. That’s how science is able to tell a child real parent if ever in doubt.

Sperms and Eggs are potential human being; at conception is human being full with potential.

[Megan]

HumbleDee, I agree. It seems to me that abortion chips away at our perception of the value of human life.

Imagine being a child who knows that your mother has selectively eliminated some of your potential siblings. She has the power to do that, and has done that. This energy is put into the family system, and is not directly addressed with the child, in many if not most cases, I would imagine. Even if the child doesn't know about the abortion, he 'knows' the energy has changed. Children feel these things.

I think using violent solutions of any kind 'tears the fabric of reality' in some way we don't really comprehend, i.e., it damages us all, and this accrues. Call it karma, call it emotional baggage, call it what you please. As Erin said, there is a price to pay.

Once you concede to the need for violent solutions, then it begins to seem evident that violent solutions are the best solutions, or at least the most expedient. They may be dirty, but they're relatively quick and cheap. More and more violent solutions are required, it seems.

It sounds like I am a black-and-white thinker about these things, but like Older/Wiser, I have often, often wished I had not been born. I think the lives of unwanted, often abused and neglected children are another holocaust right under our noses. It is a form of living hell. Also, when I was 16, a doctor gave me pills to take that must have been some sort of 'morning-after' thing, so I have been there and know the fear, confusion and desperation.

I'm just concerned that if we rely on abortion to prevent this tragedy, we will ultimately pay for this in the overall deadening of feeling in society in general, a very high price to pay. We need our feelings.

I used to help an Ob-Gyn do home deliveries before Roe-vs-Wade, and she also did illegal abortions. I assisted her with one, and I had a visceral sense of revulsion at what I was doing that went beyond any kind of mental conditioning. It was as if every cell in my body was enveloped in darkness and heaviness. It felt elemental.

When the next girl came in for an abortion, she was a 15-year-old Mormon whose boss had taken advantage of her. She told me she was going to hell for what she was about to do. The doctor was busy, so she and I took a walk. I encouraged her to take some time to think it through.

The doctor was not happy with me, but I think it would have been very irresponsible to do an abortion on a child who was convinced she was going to hell, without providing some kind of counseling, without family support, or support of some reasonable kind. The doctor stopped doing abortions after that. She was Hindu, and never did feel right about it anyway.

There is something fundamentally missing when we feel we must play off the needs of expectant mothers with the needs of unborn children, it seems to me. There is a rip in the fabric of society, and that is the deeper issue that we need to address, I think.

For that reason, I would not vote to repeal Roe-vs-Wade, as I think doing that before the requisite dialogue and social remedies are in place would just create more chaos. And, sadly, sometimes abortion is the loving thing to do. I just ask that it be done humanely, respectfully, consciously, and that emotional support be considered essential before and after.

I believe we have a lot more talking, thinking and feeling to do. And meditating.

Megan

[oberlee]

Originally Posted by HumbleDee

Oberlee, if we are discussing murder, it’s not just the taking of life; it’s the taking of "another human" life. So the question is not when life begins, but when another human is created. Science can offer DNA evidence. Through DNA science can tell whom the sperms and egg belong to. Science can tell the father of an unborn child through DNA. At the moment of conception a new human is formed, that share his/her DNA from the mother and the father. That’s how science is able to tell a child real parent if ever in doubt.

Sperms and Eggs are potential human being; at conception is human being full with potential.

I was taking a reductio ad absurdum technique just to show that what separates people in their beliefs here is WHEN the person is, in fact, a person. Everybody believes murder is wrong. Some people don't believe abortion is murder, other people do. The difference is WHEN we have human life. You say conception--ok, that's legit. And you say sperm and eggs are potential. I'm just saying I still think of a conceived egg as potential human life. Also, because this stems from Erin's article, is that when the soul or spirit is connected to that cell? How can we know?

A zygote still has a very low survival rate, as does an embryo in the first trimester. I therefore, personally do not consider such a new life as important to preserve as a born human, and I would include second and third trimester in there too because, well, you've had time to think about it.

But, my point was just that many thinks happen in the forming of a child, and I'm not of the belief that a conceived egg = human life. It's still potential, the way I see it. There is still the forming of the heart, the brain...etc. etc.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by oberlee

A zygote still has a very low survival rate, as does an embryo in the first trimester. I therefore, personally do not consider such a new life as important to preserve as a born human, and I would include second and third trimester in there too because, well, you've had time to think about it.

So would you afford people in their first trimester more protection once medical science has improved to the point where the survival rate is as great at 2 weeks as it currently is at 24?

It will be interesting if/when an artificial uterus is developed, as

"the capacity to raise an unwanted fetus apart from the mother would allow the option of fetus adoption, but might raise concerns with respect to children born with no connection to a parent. Some pro-life groups argue that this would allow a father to have a choice in whether to carry a pregnancy to term. Some people would even argue that this would make it acceptable to ban abortion, since the fetus would be able to survive outside of the uterus from the first day, thereby avoiding any possible undue burden. Some currently pro-choice people may even find it acceptable to ban abortion if artificial uteri become available, since the woman would still be allowed to have the fetus removed from her body. They may believe that she has a right to privacy over her own body, but no right to determine the fate of the fetus once it is removed."

Artificial uterus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Megan

Imagine being a child who knows that your mother has selectively eliminated some of your potential siblings. She has the power to do that, and has done that.

Ironically, that also sounds like in vitro fertilization, where multiple embryos are developed but only certain ones are given a chance to live.

Originally Posted by Megan

It seems to me that abortion chips away at our perception of the value of human life.

Another way this seems to be done is via choice of words. In war it's common to come up with various terms for the enemy that enables people to see them as less than human, making the killing easier. By using the scientific term of fetus, embryo, or even zygote instead of child, person, or baby, it's easier to detach (easier maybe, but still not easy). Also one doesn't "kill" the fetus, but simply aborts it.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I do not have a very strong stance on abortion, but I thought I would chime in anyway. The reason I do not have a strong stance is because I will never have to make that decision. A lot of it depends on life circumstances. I do not air on the Christian pro-life side where all those who have abortions go to hell and I cannot say I am fully open to canceling a life that could do great things in this world. You never know what that aborted fetus could become. On the one hand, you've got a side that says abortion is a crime against humanity, and the other says it is fine and should be accomplished without judgment. As long as it is a loving decision, it is okay with me.

[oberlee]

Openeyes, that's a good point, about medical science making the life of a fetus at 2 weeks as strong as at 24. I guess that first of all, I'm not so sure that it's possible to make a fetus at 2 weeks have that much of a survival rate. I'm not qualified in any way to speak confidently on that, but it's a natural process and it doesn't mean that anything is "wrong" with the mother, and that something needs to fixed.

But being pushed in that direction, I think what it comes down to--for me--is that I'm more concerned about the realistic and social situation of abortion than the idealistically moral situation of it. That is, when it comes down to it, if everyone who had an abortion this year DIDN'T have one, there would be a lot of unhappy people walking the planet, and we'd also have 46 million MORE people, many of whom would also be unhappy because they were unwanted. It would also mean a LOT more single mother homes, because let's face it, a lot of the fathers would back out of the situation whether or not that is morally ideal. It would also mean that anyone who didn't want to have children would be wagged the finger at for having sex at all, and that's just way to intrusive and repressive.

When it comes down to it, for me, I believe it is more important for the people here already living to be able to have the choice to live out the best life for them. Period.

It also just seems incredibly sexist. I'm sorry, but the fathers can and do walk out on children all the time; a woman doesn't have that choice. Even if she gives the baby up for adoption, a world without abortion forces her to go through 9 months of HELL (yes, pregnancy is hell if you don't want the child) and then labor to get to the same point the father would.

Megan, I don't think it cheapens life at all; I think it puts high value on life, because it means the children we have are chosen to be had, rather than just haphazardly created all over the place.

[Dannyboy1]

and to the peole who were giving her advice.

I don't believe anyone who has not had a child themselves has any right to offer you advice. I was pro choice until I had my child and now I thank God every day we never seriously considered abortion even though we had only been dating a year. It's easy to be pro choice when you haven't met your child yet, but make no mistake, you are stopping a life. This baby will never be born again. You will find a way if you have this baby. If you don't want the baby, there are many people who can't have children who will love you forever for having it. You created this being, you owe it to them to at least give them nine months of your life to give them a chance.

To anyone who's never had a child, I ask you to consider the fact that you do not have the experience to make this decision for someone else. Think about times when an experience transformed you into a totally opposite way of thinking. So much so, that when you try and change your friends minds, they cannot and even refuse to believe you. You've become enlightened in a way that they cannot possibly understand until they go through it. I cannot possibly explain the experience of having a child to you, but I can ask you to realize that if you did have the experience of having a child, you would definitely not take this decision as lightly as you are right now. I have never met a person who would ever consider having an abortion once they've had a child.

One more thing. When we found out we were having a baby, I was expressing my nervousness to an aquaintence I had know for a couple of years. I told him we were broke and I had no work and I wasn't sure I was ready, but we were going to have the baby anyway. He looked into my eyes with tears in his and he said, "We have been trying to have a child for years and we can't seem to make it happen. Please, give him to us. If you don't feel you can take care of him, give him to us." he then turned and walked away crying.

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Ahh you see this is where I disagree with Erin. I think Abortion is a right any parent has, both male and female must make a mutual decision (unless its rape or damaging to the mothers health etc..) If they wanted a baby, but then the either one gets fired from their job, then I think its perfectly acceptable to get an abortion. If the child will be mentally ill, or physically ill to the point where it will affect their daily lives so much they need constant care, and constant attention, then I think its OK to abort them, in fact, I think its selfish to keep them alive.

I don't think there would be spiritual reprecussions in this instance. I think life begins as the baby leaves the womb. Up until that moment, its not conscious in my opinion. Its obviously alive, its alive from day 0, but when are you truly conscious? When are your earliest memories? age 3 - 5 I imagine for most people...

Its complicated, and I know a lot of people, will have a lot of opinions...

[Nimbrethil]

Erin,

I read your entry on abortion only a few days ago, so I apologize for coming late to this thread, but I was extremely troubled by your blog entry and have to ask you some questions.

First, based on your comment that miscarriage is not abortion, I wonder, do you realize that the medical industry does indeed refer to miscarriage as "spontaneous abortion"? Also, are you aware of just how very common it is for women to miscarry without ever having even known they were pregnant? Sexually active women, especially those who are trying to become pregnant, miscarry rather often. Pregnancy is rare in this context, when you consider how often a fertilized egg gets aborted and flushed out of a woman's body because the pregnancy didn't quite "take."* Of course, this begs the question of exactly what you mean about when a pregnancy begins, because fertilization is NOT conception--conception doesn't occur until the fertilized egg attaches. Yet the disposal of a fertilized egg is indeed classified as a spontaneous abortion by the medical establishment. I have to question your assertion about contracts between souls and incarnated beings given just how often miscarriages occur.

Secondly, I am extremely appalled that you a) perpetuated the myth of the irresponsible hussy that freely engages in unprotected sex, having decided to "just" have an abortion if she becomes pregnant, and b) by omission have dismissed the fact most abortions are the result of women who WERE using protection, that failed. Yes, I acknowledge that you did say you couldn't possibly list all the reasons why a woman would choose to abort, but then you went on to list a few of the "more obvious" reasons--and left out THE most obvious one! How could you be that irresponsible??

Women don't just go around freely having sex without the use of any contraceptives because they can "just" have an abortion, and anyone who believes this has a very dim view of women indeed. And before anyone leaps to the keyboard to tell me how wrong I am, that they know such a woman personally, let me nip that objection in the bud before it begins: I am aware that on a planet of billions, obviously some women do this. But I challenge the notion that this happens in measureable numbers, because the research simply does not support it, and, more importantly, women who DO engage in sex without protection do so from a position of ignorance, not irresponsibility. These women are usually not women at all, but girls, and they are ALWAYS uninformed--or worse yet, misinformed. Women who engage in sex without protection generally aren't thinking about pregnancy at all, much less abortion.

Finally, on this note, I am utterly appalled that you are perpetuating the myth that any woman regards the decision to abort with the same concern she would give to making an appointment at the salon. NO woman chooses abortion over contraceptives unless she has a good reason for doing so. Honestly, Erin, would YOU choose to have an abortion in lieu of using condoms or anything else? Then why on earth do you think any other woman would?

That out of the way, I come to the real purpose of my post here. Your statements strike me as so contradictory and laden with your own biases that I strongly suspect that most of this comes not from your guides but from your own preconceived notions.

First, I want to point out that I, like another poster here, was confused about your claim of serious consequences, because you do rather make it sound ominiously like damnation. Then you mention that it seems to only be that the person responsible for breaching the contract must make amends by "fixing" somehow all the things left undone by that soul's not being permitted to incarnate. You made the consequences sound so dire, yet that doesn't strike me as such. Since if two of us were led to that conclusion, you can be sure that other people were, too, even if they didn't feel compelled to comment here. I would ask that you elaborate on this to clear up the confusion, if you don't actually mean a woman who aborts is going to suffer any sort of soul damnation.

The other thing that troubles me is your talk about contracts.

Your discussion about contracts led me to conclude that you are saying that this is absolute: every single time an egg is fertilized, that is a signal that there WAS a contract made, between the soul waiting to incarnate, and the mother and father. Do I understand that correctly? That this is the only way eggs become fertilized, is through the result of a contract between baby-to-be, mother, and father?

If that's true, then how on earth can you say what you do about rape victims? If an egg is fertilized as the result of this contract, then you are saying that the rape victim contracted to become pregnant by her rapist. And, um, if it is a contract, how is breaching it, by the woman getting an abortion, acceptable? I don't think you've actually thought that one through, Erin, because logically it just...it ISN'T logical, not at all. If there is a contract, then you are saying that a woman asked to be raped, because how else can you possibly argue that the woman entered into a contract? This line of thought, taken to its ONLY logical conclusion, suggests that rape cannot exist. Because, well, the woman agreed to this sex, as is shown by the fact she became pregnant.

In the same vein, if a pregnancy is a signal that a contract was made between three people, how can you sit back and claim that abortion is okay in ANY circumstance? I think it is horrendous for you to suggest that pregnancy resulting from rape is the result of a contract made between the disincarnate soul, a rapist and his victim. But if that's not what you're saying, then you have contradicted yourself utterly.

Are there situations in which a resulting pregnancy was NOT the result of a contract made between three entities? If not, then again, I have to ask, if pregnancy is always the result of a contract, how can there possibly be reasons in which breaching the contract is okay? Your line of reasoning just doesn't make sense.

I also must challenge your notion about using abortion as birth control. Abortion is birth control by its very definition. It's impossible NOT to use it as such. But this just brings me to another point. I would argue that a woman who is actively using contraceptives, and gets pregnant anyway, most certainly was not contracting to become pregnant. Use of contraceptives throws that possibility out the window. (And here I will preemptively reject the argument that "having sex is itself a contract to become pregnant"). If a woman is using birth control and adamantly does not intend to become pregnant--and actively plans to abort if her contraceptives fail--then the argument goes that any soul looking to this woman to incarnate is actively seeking to suppress this woman's free will, and it would be utterly stupid of a soul to incarnate in a woman who is taking measures to avoid pregnancy and who also has a back-up plan to negate any pregnancy that occurs despite her efforts.

But mostly I am just horrified that you are claiming that pregnancy is the result of a contract, because that argument really doesn't make sense in lieu of rape victims, unless, again, you are also claiming that a rape victim somehow contracted to become pregnant by her rapist, which, also again, seems to fly in the face of it being permissible for said rape victim to abort, since she, well, agreed to that pregnancy in the first place.

I have thoroughly enjoyed most of your articles, but this one left a bitter taste in my mouth, to see you propagating hateful, misogynist stereotypes against women. Between that and your claims here about what your spirit guides have supposedly told you, I am left believing that these actually are YOUR own biased and hugely uninformed ideas, not those of any spirits, and I question what value you actually do have to offer people who seek spiritual guidance when your contradictory words defy not only logic, but also compassion.







*For those who may question the statement that women miscarry very often, usually before ever knowing they were pregnant, here:
From Penn Pregnancy Health Center: Early Miscarriage
"Early miscarriage is very common. As many as 30% of women will experience one, usually before they even miss a period, or realize they are pregnant. Most early miscarriages are a result of a developing fetus that is unhealthy and has no chance of surviving to the end of pregnancy."

Understanding miscarriage
"Perhaps as many as three-quarters of all fertilised eggs are lost in the very earliest stages of pregnancy."