Good vs. Evil

[Seth]

Erin, I really appreciate all the time you take offering guidance and answering questions. Anyone can write an article and be done with it, but you seem very approachable and eager to discus your beliefs. And that’s good news for me, because I need your help!

I was raised Catholic but always thought it was mumbo-jumbo, turned atheist in college, and am now back to trying to understand spirituality. I’m currently using Steve’s computer-and-software metaphor to keep things straight. I have loaded Catholicism, Atheism, and David Icke’s “We are living in a matrix controlled by alien reptilians and we’re screwed in 2012.” I’ve finally consciously chosen to believe in God, not just because my mom dragged me to church, or because finals are two weeks away. I agree with the belief that “we are all one, we are all God.” I like that MUCH more than worshipping some magical man in the sky with a white beard, and fearing his judgment. Regardless of how screwed up and plagiarized the Bible is, if Jesus can save you from vampires on the astral plane, he’s good enough for me!

So now I have some hard questions. If the astral realm is taken at face value, then there are definitely powers, conscious beings, and entire dimensions outside of oneself. How then, are we “all one?” If you are not Jesus, and an astral vampire, and everything else, then we are not One.

Steve’s subjective reality falls flat on its face outside of the physical plane. In the astral realm, there are objective qualities such as “good” and “evil.” They’re not subjective, and they’re not a projection of your consciousness. The astral vampires aren’t “dark workers” or whatever, they are EVIL. Furthermore, they relish their evilness and work at being more evil. They’re not “helping themselves first to eventually help others.” Also, you say that no matter what I believe, I will go to the astral realm when I die. I want to trust you, Erin, but I’m wary of believing in your “one true religion” where anyone who doesn’t believe is wrong.

The only reason I am on the fence between choosing “good” or “evil” is that I have a tremendous respect for evil. If I ever met Hitler, I would shake his hand and say “well played.” Furthermore, I feel compassion for murderers. Everyone else is thinking of how to get revenge, but I forgive them. Is it bad to be cool with murderers? As long as they don’t mess with me or anyone I know, I don’t mind that they kill people. According to you, the victims planned the whole thing anyway before they incarnated. Do some kids get murdered just to stick it to their parents for being so horrible?

The only recurring nightmares I had as a child were about the Red-Eyed Monster in my closet, who looked a lot like the astral vampire you described. I don’t remember why the dreams stopped, but I haven’t had them since I was about 6. If I saw him in a dream now and managed to not be afraid, I would like to hang out with him and joke around. I wouldn’t want him to fade into a happy normal guy like your Freddy Krueger. I respect evil for what it is. Is that the same as loving evil, or just falling under its spell? If I tried to hug an astral vampire like meeting an old buddy, do you think he’d respect me, or suck out my soul? Why did you say “god damn you!” to him when you believe in love!? Why do you run around killing Evil with a light sword if thou shalt not kill? I thought the point of your gladiator dream was that you learned to love evil. When you give love to evil, does it have to die or get vanquished or whatever? I don’t want to kill evil, I want to respect it and forgive it. Can I be friends with the Devil AND Jesus?

I have no clue what my life purpose is, but I am certain of my astral purpose, if such a thing exists. I want to mediate between good and evil and show them that we are all One. Obviously the astral plane is infected with duality just like the Earth. But duality is only an illusion! We are all One.

Erin, I don’t see how you killing astral vampires with a light sword is any different than us killing terrorists. The evil doesn’t go away, it just dissipates and rematerializes. If you had a list of every evil person on Earth and killed them all, Evil would simply redistribute itself. And that is exactly what Evil wants. Am I wrong? You are just as bad for the world as the astral vampires, going around and killing in the name of love. Your light only makes the dark darker. Can you imagine Good ever eliminating Evil on the astral plane, or on Earth? How would that happen? When you kill a demon do you really feel like it changes anything? If it does, then I’ll pay you double your income to stay astral and kill demons 24/7. Why aren’t you in the Astral Army to save the universe?

David Icke says “infinite love is the only truth,” and agrees with you that all evil is love in disguise. But I don’t understand how there can be good without bad. Is it possible to accept good and bad as One, or do we have to somehow convert all bad into good?

Erin, I’m really looking forward to your reply, and I welcome any comments from everyone else! I almost wish I'd stayed Atheist, cause this spirituality stuff is confusing as hell.

[Erin Pavlina]

Wow that was long!

You made a few assumptions about me that were not quite accurate but that's okay; I think I see where you're going with this.

In my teen years I was not at the same level of consciousness that I am now. Killing demons on the astral plane was empowering, and besides, they started it. But seriously, they came and attacked me and I defended myself. After awhile I decided defending wasn't enough and actually went on the prowl some nights to proactively rid the world (or astral world) of the demons. I thought I was doing the right thing.

Now that I am older and, I hope wiser, I would not seek out a demon. I would simply vibrate at a frequency where we would never interact. I would not kill or banish a demon unless I felt I had no choice to protect someone I love. I treat demons like I treat spiders... if they come in my house and are a threat to my family, I will end their life. If they stay away from me and don't bother me, I will leave them alone.

Hitler was not evil, just terribly misguided. He thought he was doing the right thing. He was wrong. I am sure he is working on that. You probably admire his leadership. Nothing in your post suggests you want to go out and intentionally harm people so don't claim you're evil my friend.

Nothing wrong with forgiving a murderer. It's not really your place to forgive or not forgive, but if you feel you need to, go right ahead. That's your right.

What is it you really want to know?

[Seth]

Thanks for reading the whole thing! Here is what I really want know:

I see any duality as bad for the universe. I don’t want to be good or evil, I want to return to Source. I don’t want to vibrate at a higher frequency, I want to stop vibrating. How do I do that?

Let me get this straight… Good can vibrate out of range of Evil, or drop its vibrations to Evil’s level. Doesn’t that mean Good always has the upper hand? It’s like me holding my little brother at arms length while he tries to hit me. Steve’s “be evil if you want” stuff is nonsense, because good is clearly better. What are the astral benefits of being evil?

[RallyMcnally]

Hi Seth. I think you would enjoy these great articles at this site, regarding getting out of duality, and back to the source:

Shopping For Spirit The Search For Truth, Part Seven, by Steve Gamble
Shopping For Spirit The Search For Truth, Part Eight, by Steve Gamble

more articles here:
Articles - Determining Spirituality, energising water, lost souls, true origins of reiki, reiki tera mai and their imbalanced symbols, shopping for spirit the search for truth, dangers of emfs and mobile phone masts, contributory factors in ill

[Erin Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Seth

Let me get this straight… Good can vibrate out of range of Evil, or drop its vibrations to Evil’s level. Doesn’t that mean Good always has the upper hand? It’s like me holding my little brother at arms length while he tries to hit me. Steve’s “be evil if you want” stuff is nonsense, because good is clearly better. What are the astral benefits of being evil?

It's not that Good is better than Evil. When I say "vibrate out of range" think of it like a radio dial and you're moving to a different frequency. Is 98.1 any better than 103.7? Just different. Or, like changing the channel on the television. Channel 2 is just showing different shows than Channel 9.

The astral benefits of being evil are being able to suck people's energy without having to generate your own. It's the lazy way to keep on existing. No growth, just raw power.

[Seth]

So it’s not that evil can only vibrate high enough to reach channels 1-2, while good can vibrate high enough to reach channel 7?

I see what you’re saying about evil sucking energy. I think its cool that a high level evil person will turn heads and own a room through charisma, while a high level good person will have the same effect by radiating positive energy. Do you agree with Steve that it is counterproductive to use the attractive powers of both good and evil?

Thanks for the links, RallyMcnally! I’m reading them now.

[Dive Bomb]

What channel would you think most people are tuned into if there internal radios are even turned on haha

[Seth]

Dive Bomb, my current understanding of different "channels" comes from this link: Treatise on Astral Projection - Part 2 - Robert Bruce

Its says the commonly accepted names for the seven known levels of existence, from lowest to highest, are: Physical, Astral, Mental, Buddhic, Atmic, Anupadaka and Adi.

You travel within each level and from one to the next by raising your vibration. It is my understanding that Evil can only vibrate at the Physical, Astral, and Mental frequencies.

You can easily reach the Mental dimension by taking LSD or shrooms or any psychedelic drug. You will have a “bad trip” if you project fear rather than love when you trip.

Hopefully Erin can clarify that for us. Please don’t take my word as the truth and take LSD to have an enlightening experience.

[Erin Pavlina]

Seth, I think it is probably counterproductive to use both good and evil. I see the great benefit of polarizing one way or the other. Getting there is another story altogether.

Regarding the seven known levels of existence... I didn't know them, don't know them, so can't comment on them. I know physical, astral, celestial, and ether. And that's as far as I go (for now)

[SatanAzazel]

dont listein to robert bruce erin is right on sayin infinite planes of existence only seven make no sense when other people tell of different planes with different names its obvious there is more than seven

[Erin Kronman]

Hunter Nuttall offers a practical way to think of good vs evil: Lightworkers, Darkworkers, And The Other Kind

[Asmoday]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

It's not that Good is better than Evil. When I say "vibrate out of range" think of it like a radio dial and you're moving to a different frequency. Is 98.1 any better than 103.7? Just different. Or, like changing the channel on the television. Channel 2 is just showing different shows than Channel 9.

The astral benefits of being evil are being able to suck people's energy without having to generate your own. It's the lazy way to keep on existing. No growth, just raw power.

Awww damnaggit, Cousin, and you were one of my favorite Lightworkers too...

Now, I don't think that's fair. I hardly would call myself lazy. In fact, one complaint I get from people is that I'm so hard to pin down for just laid-back leisure, because I'm always doing something. And, I'm not tired because I'm taking all that excess energy you guys dump into the sleepers and using it precisely to fuel growth.

Bill Gates has more money than he could possible spend in his lifetime. Now, I admit, stealing a dollar from Bill Gates is theft, by definition. But, is it theft in the same way that stealing a dollar from a poor family facing eviction is theft? I hardly doubt any of us would see the two precisely the same.

Thing is, once you have those who are asleep, to bring the universe into balance you have to have those who are awake. Problem is, the sleepers have a limited capacity for energy, by definition. Good pours out that energy, Evil mops it up. Its all part of the harmony. If you have the faucet, you have to have the drain -- or the whole kitchen gets flooded. The Lightworker, the Good, its very existence, creates the Evil, one co-creating the other, for the purpose of balance. Creation and destruction are one in the same, much as birth and death.

Besides Cousin, they're not using the energy anyway, and you know it. Not taking the energy when I have the motive, means, and opportunity would be like standing around in the dark, in my house, not turning my lights on. Why? Because some poor dude might need to cook his raman noodles. What? Doesn't make sense. He'll still have the power he needs. The energy is infinite. The draining itself can show the sleeper that reality better sometimes than anything else.

We are both part of the natural order. Let the healing begin.

It has a higher purpose, you know. You can't know your power until it is removed. In fact, I know a number of psychics who have come to an awareness of their gifts precisely because they had a draining experience. When they felt "it" being removed, that's how they knew "it" was there. Two ways to wake someone up -- one is to softly stroke their cheek and call to them, the other is to shake the bed and scream. Either way works, and sometimes, the latter is necessary. Just one more voice whispering them into ultimate liberation.

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by SatanAzazel

dont listein to robert bruce erin is right on sayin infinite planes of existence

Robert Bruce has very strong theosophical and hermetic training. This, naturally, influences his perceptions, because everyone frames things according to their existing experiences. He's certainly no exception.

In fact, Robert is a good deal more flexible on a lot of matters than people give him credit for. He certainly does use a theosophical/hermetic framework for most of his descriptions/analogies, but that doesn't mean he takes it all literally, nor does he expect anyone else to do so.

Erin, on the other hand, approaches the situation from a much more personal, intuitive, unstructured point of view, and she describes her perceptions as best she can, using the symbols and metaphors that make sense to her. Again, everyone does this.

Personally, I do tend to resonate more with Erin's perceptions than with Robert's, but my own are, yet again, different. We're all unique points of view, which is why we all have unique points of view. And none of it is literal.

[Erin Pavlina]

We're all touching different parts of the elephant.

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

We're all touching different parts of the elephant.

Exactly.

[Andrew Gubb]

Asmoday, do you really consider yourself to be like an astral demon - do you really absorb others' energy in lieu of creating it yourself?

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Asmoday, do you really consider yourself to be like an astral demon - do you really absorb others' energy in lieu of creating it yourself?

You don't really create energy, do you? You act as a channel for it to enter the world but you're not creating it. You can't really make more of something that's infinite.

And therein lies our difference-you pull your energy from a higher source, we draw from what's already here. It's at this point when I need to make a differentiation between darkworkers and vampires. Asmoday already hit on this when he said that taking some power wouldn't stop the guy in the apartment above from cooking his ramen. Vampires would drain the whole damn building and then move somewhere else. We take the excess.

That energy has to go somewhere, you can't pull it here and just leave it sit. Eventually the world would lose any sense of coherence. It'd be movement without traction. Left in the hands of the sleepers that energy makes for some good highs but only a small percentage of them wake up and put it to use. That's where we come in. You give us the stone, we make the sculpture.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

You don't really create energy, do you? You act as a channel for it to enter the world but you're not creating it. You can't really make more of something that's infinite.

And therein lies our difference-you pull your energy from a higher source, we draw from what's already here. It's at this point when I need to make a differentiation between darkworkers and vampires. Asmoday already hit on this when he said that taking some power wouldn't stop the guy in the apartment above from cooking his ramen. Vampires would drain the whole damn building and then move somewhere else. We take the excess.

That energy has to go somewhere, you can't pull it here and just leave it sit. Eventually the world would lose any sense of coherence. It'd be movement without traction. Left in the hands of the sleepers that energy makes for some good highs but only a small percentage of them wake up and put it to use. That's where we come in. You give us the stone, we make the sculpture.

I see. So basically you depend on sleepers to exist, right?

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

I see. So basically you depend on sleepers to exist, right?

Wrong. In communities where people are openly psychic vampires, there will often be people who call themselves 'black swans'. This is a name for a willing donor of either blood and or energy. Donors get elation from giving and do it consciously and happily. Some believe their life purpose ties into their being a black swan, in that they are naturally a nurturer and giver. Most ~respectable~ psychic vampires will refuse to siphon energy from hapless bystanders and will elect to find a donor. I know this because I posed as a psychic vampire in a vampiric community for a few years to learn about them. They are very serious about their lifestyle (not in the sense that they sleep in coffins and have big fangs, they usually shun theatrics). An interesting sort of people, that I feel are getting unnecessary flak from the new age community.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

I see. So basically you depend on sleepers to exist, right?

Wakers depend on sleepers to exist. Without that dichotomy there would be no distinction. If everyone were awake there would only be light and dark, or givers and takers, because you would still need both for everything to function, the difference is that it would work on a much higher level than it does now.

[Andrew Gubb]

Interesting stuff but I don't think lightworkers are defined as givers exactly... they do that, but they also receive... they give, because they have an infinite source inside of them... but the focus isn't so much on the giving as the being. So I don't imagine a world in which everyone was giving but no one was enjoying those gifts...

[Cado]

It's not that you give exclusively, it's that your focus is on expanding energy flow. Mine is more on controlling and directing it. You can give, I can give. You can take, I can take. The difference is our source and our purpose. If either of these was missing the machinery would break down.