Is there such a thing as accidental death?

[HiImJeremy]

Just wondering. I was watching an interview with a medium and she was asked whether people can change when they die or not. Her response was that when it's their time they gotta go and if for some reason they remain alive when they should be passed, it will follow them.

I was wondering, say for example a car crash, it's very sudden and accidental, would the soul know before hand this is the way it wanted to go, or is accidental death possible? In that how would it complete it's mission/journey? :S

[Erin Pavlina]

I think accidental death is possible. Free will trumps all. People can die before their time.

[Weena]

Great question Jeremy. I also wondered this recently, as someone I know has lost her husband very suddenly in an accident. I felt really awful for her, and really wondered why such a fantastic woman could have that kind of experience (she's a wonderful psychic/healer and they were still very much in love after over 40 years together). I found it an unfair thing, and really wondered about accidental death and what it means...

[Federer]

Accidental death is possible and yes, some circumstances and life forces do this things and we fall in to grieving.

Sometimes i think past life and present life karmas sums up it all here, this is why it happens. Our life is strongly incarnated and calculated by our deeds. This is somewhat like what we say,"Mysterious karmic laws that can't be understood by human beings"

[FoxxyRed]

I strongly believe in karma. My belief goes like this:

Imagine you have two bank accounts. One bank account we'll call good karma, and one we'll call bad karma. During your life, you "spend" karma from both accounts. When something good happens, you spend your good karma, and when something bad happens, you spend your bad karma. When you run out from both accounts, it's time to leave that life. The karma you accrue during this lifetime becomes the karma for your next. This is why, I believe, that bad things happen to good people. According to my belief, it is impossible to die before your time, or to live past your time. You leave this life exactly when you're meant to.

[Summerbreeze]

You can even end up in the wrong incarnation - leaves room for interpretation

~sb

[HiImJeremy]

Originally Posted by Summerbreeze

You can even end up in the wrong incarnation - leaves room for interpretation

~sb

Do you know that from personal experience? Did you research this through a personal account or is this presumption? A theory?

I'm not sure they're going to make mistakes like that.

[Summerbreeze]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

Do you know that from personal experience? Did you research this through a personal account or is this presumption? A theory?

I'm not sure they're going to make mistakes like that.

In a minute you have a PM, I don't want to spread too much of the 'ungrounded'

~sb

[Annie Zero]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

I think accidental death is possible. Free will trumps all. People can die before their time.

You're implying people actually have free will, not like their "decisions" are pre-determined by everything that has influenced them up to that point. I don't believe in free will, nor in accidents. Things that happen in life seem random or chaotic or meaningless a lot of the time, but there's no reason for that to be different, not everything is meant to be simple and explainable. In fact most things aren't meant to be explainable.

Though your guides or anyone up there aren't going to tell you you have no free will -- you'd get the wrong idea.

People die. You'll probably think I'm a psychopath but I think the fact that a lot of people die on "accident" or before "their time" or for "no reason" makes life and everything significantly more exciting, fulfilling and interesting. If one day people stop dying on accident, I'll be seriously unimpressed.

[HiImJeremy]

Well that's not psychopathic. Perhaps a bit sick though...

Thanks for that.

[veloci]

Originally Posted by Annie Zero

You're implying people actually have free will, not like their "decisions" are pre-determined by everything that has influenced them up to that point. I don't believe in free will, nor in accidents. Things that happen in life seem random or chaotic or meaningless a lot of the time, but there's no reason for that to be different, not everything is meant to be simple and explainable. In fact most things aren't meant to be explainable.

Though your guides or anyone up there aren't going to tell you you have no free will -- you'd get the wrong idea.

People die. You'll probably think I'm a psychopath but I think the fact that a lot of people die on "accident" or before "their time" or for "no reason" makes life and everything significantly more exciting, fulfilling and interesting. If one day people stop dying on accident, I'll be seriously unimpressed.

Why do you say that most things are not meant to be explainable? Why do you think not everything is meant to be simple and explainable?

I want a clearer understanding of where you are coming from. It is not often one gets to have a discussion about free will.

[Annie Zero]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

Perhaps a bit sick though...

Take that back. There's nothing sick about appreciating the complexity of all-that-is.

Originally Posted by veloci

Why do you think not everything is meant to be simple and explainable?

I don't understand how anyone can even ask that. Please think this through.

[HiImJeremy]

Originally Posted by Annie Zero

Take that back. There's nothing sick about appreciating the complexity of all-that-is.

I appreciate your honesty in this matter.

Sure, appreciate the complexity of all-that-is if you wish - that's not sick.

I just feel that because you think people who die by 'accident' and for 'no reason', makes it exciting, fulfilling and interesting for you...is a bit sick.

and not just any interesting, but significantly more interesting.

So no i will not take back my statement.

[veloci]

Originally Posted by Annie Zero

I don't understand how anyone can even ask that. Please think this through.

Let me elaborate further why I ask for your input. I want to understand where you are coming from. My own conclusion may differ, but I still would like to understand why you say that. I believe everything is simple and explainable. They can be complex, but still simple at the same time. I don't care about my opinion in this case right now. I care about yours.

[Annie Zero]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

So no i will not take back my statement.

Alrighty. My phrasing was a little unfortunate but I think you would've misunderstood me either way.

Originally Posted by veloci

Let me elaborate further why I ask for your input. I want to understand where you are coming from. My own conclusion may differ, but I still would like to understand why you say that. I believe everything is simple and explainable. They can be complex, but still simple at the same time. I don't care about my opinion in this case right now. I care about yours.

How can you "believe" everything is simple and explainable when it clearly isn't? That doesn't make any sense. Would you be able to explain why a certain person died "before his time"? Would anyone?

The world is complex, and it's good that way. I wouldn't want to live in a world where everything is understandable, because in such a world bad things never happen.

"Complex but simple" isn't a real possibility, unless the "simple" side of it is something like "it was meant that way" or "God did it" -- and those aren't really explanations, but simplifications.

So about accidental deaths, I'll still call them accidents, but if something did happen then it was clearly meant to happen. Causality can be complex and we can't predict everything, but just because we couldn't have predicted something doesn't mean it wasn't meant to happen or that that specific instance could've been prevented.

[veloci]

I believe everything is simple. This happens, thus this happens. We choose to make it complicated and believe that nothing can ever be simple. As for complexity, simplicity can be quite complex. It goes deep beneath the superficial.

So to me, it certainly is a real possibility. As for simplification purposes, what if those are the answers, but we choose not to believe so? There's a fine line between complexity and complication, aye?

Seems to me like you're using a different context to talk about free-will. Once again showing how we can make things complicated, right? Of course nothing in life is simple. lol In terms of free-will that Erin talked about, I believe she meant with the divine plan your Oversoul/Higher-Self wanted your life to be like. You are given free-will to completely go off the plan, or even get accidentally killed by others with free-will. Some are definitely destined by your Oversoul, for sure. Some are from your own current conscious. Some are from others.

[Annie Zero]

Originally Posted by veloci

I believe everything is simple.

That's quite a non-statement.

This happens, thus this happens.

So you're a determinist?

We choose to make it complicated and believe that nothing can ever be simple.

Nobody actually thinks like that, no one has ever said that nothing can ever be simple.

As for complexity, simplicity can be quite complex. It goes deep beneath the superficial.

You're just throwing words around now, they don't mean anything.

So to me, it certainly is a real possibility. As for simplification purposes, what if those are the answers, but we choose not to believe so? There's a fine line between complexity and complication, aye?

If "God did it" is an answer to anything, then the next question is "Why?" I wouldn't expect a simple answer.

Seems to me like you're using a different context to talk about free-will. Once again showing how we can make things complicated, right? Of course nothing in life is simple. lol In terms of free-will that Erin talked about, I believe she meant with the divine plan your Oversoul/Higher-Self wanted your life to be like. You are given free-will to completely go off the plan, or even get accidentally killed by others with free-will. Some are definitely destined by your Oversoul, for sure. Some are from your own current conscious. Some are from others.

I guess your Higher Self isn't omnipotent/omniscient. So it can have a plan but your or someone else's "free will" can end up killing you anyway. From there you would think, "well, on a higher level, this wasn't planned, this wasn't meant to happen. This person had a plan and a higher purpose, but he died in an accident anyway. Why? His guides or guardians could've prevented it, knowing his plan and purpose, but they didn't. Why?"

God did it.

I'm probably the only one fascinated by this idea, but this is the conclusion I reach: (according to what I believe) free will is an illusion, and also, your non-physical friends are not allowed to interfere with your supposed free will. What does this add up to?

Assuming one believes in an omnipotent and omniscient God (but it's not a necessity), this means God's plans override anyone else's.

"God did it" is by no means a satisfactory answer, but it's the only one you've got when things get so complex that you can't explain them.

[momo3bur]

I just want to note that in a thread labeled "Is There Such a Thing as Accidental Death" there may be those few people who have suffered the loss of a loved one, etc., they may be searching these forums looking for advice or even answers to that question.

I'm asking very respectfully that we think about these things when arguing over this subject. Not that anyone should honor MY request, but you know, just for the people who may get a little angered or upset, maybe try not to be so callous.

Not mention, this is something we really have very little control over so I don't see any point in arguing about or trying to prove that anyone's belief is any more legit or founded than another. It's not really my place to say this since Jeremy started this thread, but maybe it should be more of a friendly discussion thread and less of a debate thread for the sake of people who may run across it and have emotions attached to the subject. I'm sure those people probably don't want to think of their beloved's death being amusing to anyone.

You can kick me off if I'm wrong, Jeremy. lol.

[Annie Zero]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

I just want to note that in a thread labeled "Is There Such a Thing as Accidental Death" there may be those few people who have suffered the loss of a loved one, etc., they may be searching these forums looking for advice or even answers to that question.

I'm asking very respectfully that we think about these things when arguing over this subject. Not that anyone should honor MY request, but you know, just for the people who may get a little angered or upset, maybe try not to be so callous.

Not mention, this is something we really have very little control over so I don't see any point in arguing about or trying to prove that anyone's belief is any more legit or founded than another. It's not really my place to say this since Jeremy started this thread, but maybe it should be more of a friendly discussion thread and less of a debate thread for the sake of people who may run across it and have emotions attached to the subject. I'm sure those people probably don't want to think of their beloved's death being amusing to anyone.

Because that's exactly what I implied, someone's death is amusing. I've lost people too, and it's been far from amusing and far from something that I know how to deal with or would've chosen to deal with for the sake of having a variety of experiences in my life. I still think about why it had to happen or what could've been different. But it does help to accept that if something did happen then it was clearly meant to happen and there's nothing else to do from there but move on. I'm not callous, I'm practical.

Accidents and the real possibility of things going wrong do make life more interesting.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by Annie Zero

Because that's exactly what I implied, someone's death is amusing. I've lost people too, and it's been far from amusing and far from something that I know how to deal with or would've chosen to deal with for the sake of having a variety of experiences in my life. I still think about why it had to happen or what could've been different. But it does help to accept that if something did happen then it was clearly meant to happen and there's nothing else to do from there but move on. I'm not callous, I'm practical.

Accidents and the real possibility of things going wrong do make life more interesting.

Understood. I apologize for assuming.

Here's my point of view on accidental death. It is all relative to what you believe. No matter how much one tries to prove his point or ask others to accept what he has to say, there is a big chance he will only be able to change the beliefs of a VERY small percentage if people in the group who are listening.

With that being said, yes...it does make easier to accept that if something happens to a loved one, it is meant to be and that there is a greater plan that we know nothing of. MANY, many people believe that (including myself, based on my own experience). Who's to say this belief isn't strictly based on comfort or a simple answer which is not actually an answer at all, yet just a "myth," so to say, in order to bring some peace to those involved. NO one wants to think their neighbor dying in a house fire was just because they happened to be in the house when it was burning. We want to believe it's because their time is up. Things are finished for them. That's what I believe.

Now, for those that believe that there is such thing as accidental death, they feel that they are being "practical" just as you feel you are. They MAY feel that there is probably no way every single tiny event in our lives could be mapped out and planned with some higher intention involved. Many people believe there is fate, but it can be changed by the path you choose because of free will.

There simply no basis in arguing over this. NONE. This is about like arguing over religion. lol. Which I've done A LOT of. Our beliefs are based on our experiences and what we choose to accept for comfort. Some find comfort in control, others find comfort in information, others find comfort in letting it all go to divine plan.

So maybe it's unfair to basically tell someone he is WRONG about what he believes because he has just as much basis in his belief as anyone else and, considering the subject at hand, probably just as much concrete evidence to prove that belief as anyone else.

I agree strongly with Veloci. We make things too complicated for ourselves. But also believe that things happen for a reason, including death. I feel that they every little experience we have is for learning in some way or another, whether or not we pick it up the first time around. lol. To me that's simple and practical and makes life interesting. So I understand your point, in the grand scheme of things, all of these events make life more varied but not necessarily more pleasant.