Our Separation: One Year Later (Blog)

[Erin Pavlina]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Erin Pavlina's blog:

Our Separation: One Year Later

[Angela]

I agree -- compromise is overrated! But boy oh boy do some people go frog-in-a-blender when they hear that -- we are trained from a young age that "relationships require lots of compromise!" like it's The TruthTM.

I'm heartened by your update, Erin! Lots of everything you want to you.

[StacyT]

The part about this that makes me happiest is that you're coming into your own sense of power - awesome! Truthfully it's something I struggle with myself sometimes. Lots of love and happiness to you!!

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Angela

I agree -- compromise is overrated! But boy oh boy do some people go frog-in-a-blender when they hear that -- we are trained from a young age that "relationships require lots of compromise!" like it's The TruthTM.

For me, it depends on the type of compromise. Small things like "where do we eat tonight" I don't mind or give a second thought of compromising about. But when it's something as important as your life path, then this shouldn't be compromised.

Erin, thanks for sharing your one-year update too! It's nice to know how both you and Steve see things. I don't have children, but my parenting style is more aligned with yours than Steve's, so I can understand it. I'm glad you've began "making a list" of the qualities you want in your next partner. I did the same thing years ago and the exercise helped me a lot! I'm also pleased to hear the children have adjusted well. That was a big concern for many people.

[richardxthripp]

Most marriages end in divorce -- I think it's because people change over time. Good luck to you, Erin.

[mmartin2009]

WOOHOOO!! Go Erin!

[danas]

Very inspiring article.
Brought tears to my eyes.
Thanks for sharing

[gingerbaker]

I think the most interesting thing about the dissolution of my marriage thus far has been the realization of just how much, and how often, I gave my power over to my husband. The funny thing is, on a conscious level, he never wanted me to - he values independence above all things - but subconsciously, he can be such a dominating presence that compromise, usually on my part, was the word of the day by default. I suspect that even now he doesn;t realize how that power balance consistenly swung in his direction.

I'm hoping that at the one year mark I will be as clear headed about it as you and Steve. Currently I shift between happy with my new path, and resentful and/or sad and missing what was. But, those times are fewer and further time between them each time. Definitely struggles over parenting are our biggest issues by FAR.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by gingerbaker

I think the most interesting thing about the dissolution of my marriage thus far has been the realization of just how much, and how often, I gave my power over to my husband. The funny thing is, on a conscious level, he never wanted me to - he values independence above all things - but subconsciously, he can be such a dominating presence that compromise, usually on my part, was the word of the day by default. I suspect that even now he doesn;t realize how that power balance consistenly swung in his direction.

I'm hoping that at the one year mark I will be as clear headed about it as you and Steve. Currently I shift between happy with my new path, and resentful and/or sad and missing what was. But, those times are fewer and further time between them each time. Definitely struggles over parenting are our biggest issues by FAR.

Are you able to be attracted to a guy who you don't give some power to?

Have you ever been in a happy relationship where you still had your power?

[Mato Kinze]

Wow... hard to believe it's been a whole year, Erin. Seems much shorter than that.

Very glad for you and quite convinced that you will continue to grow and thrive in the way you are meant to.

Also very glad things are not too traumatic for the little ones.

[gingerbaker]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Are you able to be attracted to a guy who you don't give some power to?

Have you ever been in a happy relationship where you still had your power?

That, is an excellent EXCELLENT question. I have several other relationships where I retain all of my power, and they are lovely, however for a number of reasons they are more peripheral relationships (well, relative to a partner one cohabits with and such). I think this is a particularly tricky question for me because I adore D/s, on both sides, and in fact my main relationship now is one in which I am the dominant partner. However, I very much crave a D/s relationship where I am on the sub side. At the moment (and for the past several months - and the forseeable future) I have held off from any serious play on the sub side, and am definitively *not* looking for a Dom(me) partner. This is precisely because of your question! I've opted to spend the past several months working on my self, and dealing with issues that arise from "craving" a sub-side relationship (versus choosing one, with care). While I feel strongly that D/s can be extremely healthy (and fun!!), I *don't* feel that I have been in the best headspace to embark on such a situation at the moment - and until I feel that I can indulge in such a relationship *without* handing over my power overly in areas I do not wish to, I will refrain from having one. In fact, in the past few weeks I have been giving serious consideration to choosing celibacy for a few months, to allow me additional time to process things from this relationship, and from myself, that need processing.

[dan1529]

Congrats Erin. I'm truly happy for you and what you've done. And it's inspiring to see how much you've learned and grown over the past year.

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[Augustina]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Are you able to be attracted to a guy who you don't give some power to?

Have you ever been in a happy relationship where you still had your power?

Honestly , over and over again I feel often women do it to themsleves when the matter of giving away power comes up ( certainly in the west )..it feels to me like an unspoken aspect of the feminine shadow, rather than anything men are still over whelmingly doing, require or even find attractive in a partner. I have also felt that the giving up of power can be an unconscious power trip in itself.


I have never found the position of powerlessness-self inflicted, attractive - but I also think its an area everywoman has to come to terms with in herself before it can be an empowering experience.


I have been there, done it, hated it, couldn't breathe, blamed him(s) and then realised it was my own hands around my throat.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Augustina

Honestly , over and over again I feel often women do it to themsleves when the matter of giving away power comes up ( certainly in the west )..it feels to me like an unspoken aspect of the feminine shadow, rather than anything men are still over whelmingly doing, require or even find attractive in a partner. I have also felt that the giving up of power can be an unconscious power trip in itself.


I have never found the position of powerlessness-self inflicted, attractive - but I also think its an area everywoman has to come to terms with in herself before it can be an empowering experience.


I have been there, done it, hated it, couldn't breathe, blamed him(s) and then realised it was my own hands around my throat.

It's not just women that do this. It's men too, and not just in relationships but especially in their career paths. They hand their power over to a company or boss that then determines their career destiny in the long term, whether or not it aligns with what the guy actually wants.

If you have a strong alignment with power, you will see that people practically line up to give you power over their lives.

Currently this is something I'm delving into more deeply since I'm not yet sure what the best response is. Should you accept some of that person's power and help to sculpt their lives in a positive way that you feel is good for them? Or do you reject their power, in which case they'll usually turn around and give it to someone else, who may actually be a destructive/abusive influence on them (and which they may or may not escape and grow from in the long run)? And of course there's lot of gray area in the middle. Not an easy thing to figure out though...

[ssandra]

I am very divided on the whole giving away your power thing. Not in the BDSM sense, because that is easy

I give away my power to my husband when it comes to our finances. They stress me out if I have to do it, I get into a scarcity mindset, and he doesn't mind taking control over it.

It makes me happy and more peaceful, makes him feel happy and peaceful... both happy... what can be wrong with that?

Of course, in the larger sense, for large purchases (like if we would buy a house) we would still discuss it together. And make the decision together.

I think I'm leaning on the side of "As long as I consciously give away my power and know I can reclaim it whenever I feel it is needed, it is ok to give away your power".

[Erin Pavlina]

Accepting someone's power because you are trying to prevent them from being abused by someone else is not the answer. Empowering them is the answer. So they don't need either guy. Teaching them how to hold their power is the answer.

[StacyT]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I think I'm leaning on the side of "As long as I consciously give away my power and know I can reclaim it whenever I feel it is needed, it is ok to give away your power".

I like this ssandra, it's really interesting. It's like letting people use their strengths to your benefit. Your husband is good with the finances - it's his strength. That actually makes you stronger and better able to focus on your own strengths.

[Augustina]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Accepting someone's power because you are trying to prevent them from being abused by someone else is not the answer. Empowering them is the answer. So they don't need either guy. Teaching them how to hold their power is the answer.

Hi Erin do you believe anyone has the power to empower anyone? Really? Or could it be that empowerment is essentially an inside job and at most what one can do for another is act ( in some fashion ) as a catalyst and maybe a facilitator?

I ask because for some reason I find the notion of anyone feeling that they can empower me with the same distaste i would feel if someone offered to chew my food for me, something just doesn't feel right with the whole paradigm.

[Mounds]

How would we ever go anywhere without others giving up their power? In order to be a leader, others have to give it up. You can't delegate anything to people who cling onto their power. Or we could just not go anywhere as a society.
With that said, I like what Sandra said. It should be a conscious decision.

[Erin Pavlina]

Yes I empower people all the time, by refusing to make choices for them. You can help someone see their options, you can help a person realize what they want, but ultimately you must let people make their own decisions. You can open the book for them, but don't read them the story. Let them learn how to read.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Accepting someone's power because you are trying to prevent them from being abused by someone else is not the answer. Empowering them is the answer. So they don't need either guy. Teaching them how to hold their power is the answer.

What if they haven't asked to be taught this?

Should we impose on people by trying to teach them stuff they haven't asked us to teach?

[Daffy Duck]

I don't think Erin is suggesting we lock them up and force them to learn from us. Actually, the best way to teach others is usually just to be a great example. If you have what people want (happiness, money, etc.), they will naturally look to you to learn from.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

I don't think Erin is suggesting we lock them up and force them to learn from us. Actually, the best way to teach others is usually just to be a great example. If you have what people want (happiness, money, etc.), they will naturally look to you to learn from.

That's true but that still doesn't address my question.

I have a friend who gives her power away to the point where it is clearly bad for her - it upsets her life, causes her distress, etc.

But what causes the distress, really, is the fact that the only people willing to make her choices for her are bastards.

She has lots of good friends who refuse to take her power. So the people who end up holding her power are really ****ed up people who cause her much pain and suffering.

In the short-term it is very clear to me that taking her power and using it benevolently would be superior to allowing her to be controlled by people with bad intentions.

At the same time I really don't enjoy holding her power. It's too much of a responsibility. Sometimes it's fun to be powerful but not when it's clearly bad for the person, when it's enabling a bad habit.

This issue is discussed in the Lion King. Simba abandons his tribe and takes up the motto Akuna Matada and lives a bachelor's carefree life. Meanwhile the Lionesses, who are biologically predisposed to give away their power, are ruled by an evil lion Scar.

Nala admonishes Simba for abandoning his rightful place as King of the savannah. Simba has a seance with his dead father (facilitated by the shaman Rafiki) whose sage advice leads Simba to return and perform his duty.

Anyway, often the choice we're faced with is whether to hold someone's power benevolently but perpetuate their powerlessness, or to refuse to hold their power and allow them to be screwed with by bad people.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Anyway, often the choice we're faced with is whether to hold someone's power benevolently but perpetuate their powerlessness, or to refuse to hold their power and allow them to be screwed with by bad people.

I think I see what you mean. In this case, I see a third option: tell this person how you feel about them and how you think they give away their power, tell them you won't be holding their power anymore and that you hope they don't give it away to bad people.

If they give it to bad people anyway -- oh well. This may be harsh reality, but that's their fault. The Lionesses could have easily overthrown Scar. He was a skinny little bastard, after all.

I've known an occasional person like that. Someone who seems to just punch themselves in the face every day. It comes to the point where it's like, "Hey man, I'm not going to stop you from punching yourself anymore. Putting my hand in the way every day is starting to hurt!"

This reminds me of a girl I knew as a teenager who was very insecure. She would always ask her friends, every day, "Am I ugly? Do you think this look goods on me? I'm ugly, I know I am." Whenever I saw her, I would reassure her that she wasn't ugly, and I even told her that I think deep down she knew she wasn't. One day, I decided to agree with her. "I'm ugly, I know it. Don't you think I am?" I replied, "Actually, I agree. You are looking quite ugly." Guess what -- she looked at me with disgust and said, "What?! I'm not ugly!!"

[SatvikBeri]

Originally Posted by Mounds

How would we ever go anywhere without others giving up their power? In order to be a leader, others have to give it up. You can't delegate anything to people who cling onto their power. Or we could just not go anywhere as a society.
With that said, I like what Sandra said. It should be a conscious decision.

Originally Posted by ssandra

I am very divided on the whole giving away your power thing. Not in the BDSM sense, because that is easy

I give away my power to my husband when it comes to our finances. They stress me out if I have to do it, I get into a scarcity mindset, and he doesn't mind taking control over it.

It makes me happy and more peaceful, makes him feel happy and peaceful... both happy... what can be wrong with that?

Of course, in the larger sense, for large purchases (like if we would buy a house) we would still discuss it together. And make the decision together.

I think I'm leaning on the side of "As long as I consciously give away my power and know I can reclaim it whenever I feel it is needed, it is ok to give away your power".

I think you guys are using slightly different terminology.

As I understand it, giving away your power is NOT having someone else do something for you. Giving away your power is letting yourself fall into the belief that you can't control a certain part of your life.

So Sandra, you would be giving away your power if you were upset that your husband controlled the finances but you felt like you couldn't do anything about it because you don't know/don't like to manage finances. Mounds, same thing-consciously following a leader is not giving away your power if you believe that decision is best for you. But believing you NEED a leader is.

[Augustina]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Yes I empower people all the time, by refusing to make choices for them. You can help someone see their options, you can help a person realize what they want, but ultimately you must let people make their own decisions. You can open the book for them, but don't read them the story. Let them learn how to read.

Hi Erin, I would say that what you see as you empowering others, I see as you facilitating their own empowerment.I do not see anyone having the power to empower another, no matter what. I do see many as having the skills to show another how to empower themselves.

But having said that many do not see themselves as having power so for a while, for a long while even seeing another as the source of their empowerment might be a very useful bridge or space.

Thanks for the response, I know this thread is about your blog so I might start a thread on 'who has the power really and who is really being empowered and by what ( a shorted title I am sure will emerge) on another forum.

Augustina

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

IShould you accept some of that person's power and help to sculpt their lives in a positive way that you feel is good for them?

I've been asking myself this question too lately, and it lead me to the question "what is helping someone exactly?".

I think the important is that the help which is given is flowing out of a love / desire from the "helper", and that it is not triggered by the need of the person who asks for help.

Of course, the help which is given must meet the need of the person who asks for it. But the limits of the help are defined by the "helper".

That's why great contributors usually serve causes rather than people.

When you serve a cause you define what you do to help others, and it flows from a positive desire.

Usually there are more chances that this kind of service empowers people.