I am naturally skeptical of Erin's claims

[Anna Conlan]

Originally Posted by Ambrose Pierce

The gap between the stories told BY Erin about helping law enforcement and detecting disease in organs VERSUS the actual readings people receive is amazing, but I guess people don't want to exercise their brains.

Hmm. So in order to come to this conclusion, you must have been privy to all of the readings Erin has done so far. That's no mean feat.

You obviously have an axe to grind. So much so that your arguments are coming off as less than watertight.

[rickrock]

You said you wouldn't write another post but does that mean you wont read what we have said? I don't like when anyone leaves this forum no matter how much his or her ideas disagree with mine. It's a personal development forum, lets develop! I don' want you to leave everything because of one thread.

Still the choice is yours. I know it wasn't much of a persuasion but still.
If you do decide to leave I hope you have a good life and its full of love and happiness.

Best of wishes,
Ricky

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Ambrose Pierce

There is no medical explanation?

I meant that George Soros has consulted his doctors and they found nothing wrong with him and could not provide any medical explanation for his pain.

Anyway, even if it IS psychic, that negates what other people in the thread are saying!

LOL, so? Am I supposed to agree with "other people"?

They claim you CANT
predict the stock market, therefore it's naive and stupid
for me to say Erin should do that and then lower her
prices for readings.

Erin may not be able to predict the stock market. That could be true.

Not sure what your point is, though.

As I have explained, there are all kinds of psychics and psychic abilities. They aren't uniform.

Recall my music analogy. By the way, I play the guitar but I can't play the trombone. Please don't faint in shock, just because of that.

[Acting Like Godot]

Oh thanks, Carenkh, just saw your post where you already pointed out the same thing I just wrote out:

Originally Posted by carenkh

How many times will people have to say: Don't lump all psychics together. There are differences in approach, differences in beliefs and methodology, and differences in specialization. You have a misunderstanding of how these insights work, and until you do some reading and research - rather than arguing - it's unlikely you'll ever understand.

[Ambrose Pierce]

Originally Posted by Anna Conlan

Hmm. So in order to come to this conclusion, you must have been privy to all of the readings Erin has done so far. That's no mean feat.

You obviously have an axe to grind. So much so that your arguments are coming off as less than watertight.

Alright, this will be my last post.

I have an axe to grind? You're advertising 125 for a half hour psychic services with an endorsement from Steve. If anything, you have more of a personal stake in this than I do.

I read the reviews people made, and I compared it with the stories she told or alluded to. They dont match up at all. And yes, the burden of proof IS on her. Has everyone chucked out their brains? Someone alludes to, without evidence, these amazing psychic predictions. Then people post their actual readings or experiences with her, and they are laughably vague things or easily deduced platitudes.

You are quite positive, absolutely positive you can tell people when and what their first incarnation on Earth was?
You have no doubt in your mind you can do that? You are 100% sure all that information is absolutely correct?
Im calling BS. Even Buddhists who spend their lives, 24-7 in meditation in the strictest discipline would hesitate before proclaiming something like that. Yet you can do that, for a fee, straight off on the phone.

Ok heh, Im gone...

[Ambrose Pierce]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I meant that George Soros has consulted his doctors and they found nothing wrong with him and could not provide any medical explanation for his pain.
.

uh, the brain can easily create sensations like that without any pathology being present


ok that was my Postscript

[rickrock]

Originally Posted by Ambrose Pierce

Alright, this will be my last post.

I have an axe to grind? You're advertising 125 for a half hour psychic services with an endorsement from Steve. If anything, you have more of a personal stake in this than I do.

I read the reviews people made, and I compared it with the stories she told or alluded to. They dont match up at all. And yes, the burden of proof IS on her. Has everyone chucked out their brains? Someone alludes to, without evidence, these amazing psychic predictions. Then people post their actual readings or experiences with her, and they are laughably vague things or easily deduced platitudes.

You are quite positive, absolutely positive you can tell people when and what their first incarnation on Earth was?
You have no doubt in your mind you can do that? You are 100% sure all that information is absolutely correct?
Im calling BS. Even Buddhists who spend their lives, 24-7 in meditation in the strictest discipline would hesitate before proclaiming something like that. Yet you can do that, for a fee, straight off on the phone.

Ok heh, Im gone...

There was a LOT of anger in that message. Maybe its better for him to be done with this? Out of sight out of mind.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Ambrose Pierce

I read the reviews people made, and I compared it with the stories she told or alluded to. They dont match up at all. And yes, the burden of proof IS on her. Has everyone chucked out their brains? Someone alludes to, without evidence, these amazing psychic predictions. Then people post their actual readings or experiences with her, and they are laughably vague things or easily deduced platitudes.

I just don't get why you care. I can understand being skeptical or thinking something is BS (I tend to not buy into the psychic thing myself beyond basic intuition/intuitive type knowledge), but I have absolutely no problem with people who believe in it. I have no problem with people spending large amounts of money for a reading.

These are grown up people, capable of making up their own minds as to what they believe in and spend their money on. If they want to spend their money on something I don't particularly agree with, more power to them.

My point is, what is the purpose of coming in here and "calling BS" and fighting and arguing about the validity of this stuff? Are you on some sort of mission to save people money? To try and drive away business? Do you have a personal beef with Erin? I scratch my head as to what the reason behind the reason is of making her "fess up" and prove to you personally that her "powers" (or whatever you call them lol) are legit.

Yes, I will understand if you feel compelled to come back and respond to this...and please feel free to do so. We won't judge you for saying that that was your last post, and then coming back and posting again.

[rickrock]

Originally Posted by Ambrose Pierce

uh, the brain can easily create sensations like that without any pathology being present


ok that was my Postscript

So the millions he made was his sub-conscious telling him which was a good deal? Still sounds psychic to me

[Syndicate]

I actually admire Ambrose Pierce for discussing what I'm sure a lot of people on these forums wouldn't feel comfortable openly expressing. I can't say that I agree with everything he says because I haven't read all of his posts in this thread. I am however going to try be as respectful as I can to keep the discussion going smoothly.

I'm not going to buy into this "people can do whatever they want and it's not for the psychic to decide how people spend their money" BS. The fact of the matter is that there are many people who through their grieving end up get scammed and there comes a point where skeptics need to stand up for these people, many of which can't think clearly because they are so desperately searching for answers.

I don't believe that psychics have to make an effort to show that they are, for example, actually communicating with those who have passed- they technically don't have to do anything. But the question is why wouldn't they want to? It would make their business soar and it would either shut the non-believers up or make them into believers. Otherwise, I think that psychics should make it very clear to their clients that their service is for entertainment purposes ONLY and that.

So far, the only reason I've heard as to why psychics shouldn't try to do this is because "they don't have to prove anything to anyone". Personally, I think that is a messed up way of thinking.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Syndicate

So far, the only reason I've heard as to why psychics shouldn't try to do this is because "they don't have to prove anything to anyone". Personally, I think that is a messed up way of thinking.

Personally, I think an even MORE messed up way of thinking is coming onto a forum demanding people prove something to you, when the real responsibility of "proof" is all your own and not the job of the people here.

It's pretty easy to validate. You go read books. You schedule a session with a psychic and see for yourself. You examine why it is that you want to hold onto your money so tightly that a session with someone would feel like such a great loss to you.

Or, you don't. You decide it's not for you and you go spend your money elsewhere instead of going on some crusade mission to try and save people from spending their money on something you don't think is valid.

It's akin to walking into a Walmart and demanding that the manager prove to you why a bag of fruit costs $5, when you think it should be much cheaper. If you don't want to pay $5, either not buy the bag of fruit, or try another market.

If you don't think the fruit is authentic fruit and only manufactured, you don't buy or eat the fruit.

It's that "entitlement" mindset that people aren't responding positively to. The idea that it's other people's jobs to prove things to you. Take responsibility for your own thoughts and actions. Take responsibility for your own experience and stop expecting people to come do that for you.

[rickrock]

Originally Posted by Syndicate

I actually admire Ambrose Pierce for discussing what I'm sure a lot of people on these forums wouldn't feel comfortable openly expressing. I can't say that I agree with everything he says because I haven't read all of his posts in this thread. I am however going to try be as respectful as I can to keep the discussion going smoothly.

I'm not going to buy into this "people can do whatever they want and it's not for the psychic to decide how people spend their money" BS. The fact of the matter is that there are many people who through their grieving end up get scammed and there comes a point where skeptics need to stand up for these people, many of which can't think clearly because they are so desperately searching for answers.

I don't believe that psychics have to make an effort to show that they are, for example, actually communicating with those who have passed- they technically don't have to do anything. But the question is why wouldn't they want to? It would make their business soar and it would either shut the non-believers up or make them into believers. Otherwise, I think that psychics should make it very clear to their clients that their service is for entertainment purposes ONLY and that.

So far, the only reason I've heard as to why psychics shouldn't try to do this is because "they don't have to prove anything to anyone". Personally, I think that is a messed up way of thinking.

I do like how you use logic instead of just disliking something that you can not explain. Honestly after the post I did earlier I don't know how to better educate anyone or show them what I have seen. I don't know how much I can really gain from continuing the process so my responses will slow if not completely stop, but I will still check on the thread to see if there is someone better that can tell you. Hope you find what you are looking for
Ricky

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by James81

Personally, I think an even MORE messed up way of thinking is coming onto a forum demanding people prove something to you, when the real responsibility of "proof" is all your own and not the job of the people here.

It's pretty easy to validate. You go read books. You schedule a session with a psychic and see for yourself. You examine why it is that you want to hold onto your money so tightly that a session with someone would feel like such a great loss to you.

Or, you don't. You decide it's not for you and you go spend your money elsewhere instead of going on some crusade mission to try and save people from spending their money on something you don't think is valid.

It's akin to walking into a Walmart and demanding that the manager prove to you why a bag of fruit costs $5, when you think it should be much cheaper. If you don't want to pay $5, either not buy the bag of fruit, or try another market.

If you don't think the fruit is authentic fruit and only manufactured, you don't buy or eat the fruit.

It's that "entitlement" mindset that people aren't responding positively to. The idea that it's other people's jobs to prove things to you. Take responsibility for your own thoughts and actions. Take responsibility for your own experience and stop expecting people to come do that for you.

The biggest problem is a lack of legal regulation for this industry- it's almost by its nature impossible to regulate, but like syndicate said, you need a way to protect the vulnerable.

Just because adults can decide for themselves, doesn't make those who may get scammed any less worthy of protection. In the pyschic world are their any "trade bodies" that you can belong to that expose fraudsters and promote the reliable?

[James81]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

The biggest problem is a lack of legal regulation for this industry- it's almost by its nature impossible to regulate, but like syndicate said, you need a way to protect the vulnerable.

Sheesh, it seems like everywhere I look anymore, people are wanting to cast their freedoms aside in the name of "legal regulation." I was just reading a post on facebook about how people wish the government would step in and stop the mosques from being built two blocks from Ground Zero.

And I'm like....whaaaa? Why do you want MORE regulation, MORE government mommying in your lives? People build a mosque, you disagree with that, don't go to that mosque. It's a pretty simple concept, and it's win-win. People who want a mosque get a mosque, people get to not get infected by the mosque.

It's the same idea here...psychic advertises their product/session...people make up their own minds as to whether to purchase said product. If they are vulnerable/easily influenced, that is their own choice. Unless these psychics are holding guns to people's heads, forcing them to pay for sessions, then people (vulnerable or not) are making up their own minds as to what they feel they want and need. And, ironically, scam or not, most people seem to walk away from these sessions with great value. I've never seen a thread here where someone who did a session with Erin was unhappy with that session. Or, I've never seen a blog post somewhere of that nature (if you want to argue that posts like that get deleted ).

Originally Posted by escapeplan

Just because adults can decide for themselves, doesn't make those who may get scammed any less worthy of protection. In the pyschic world are their any "trade bodies" that you can belong to that expose fraudsters and promote the reliable?

So it's about protection? You want to protect people from the freedom to make up their own mind what they spend their money on?

I don't follow.

[Syndicate]

With all due respect, I don't even know where to begin with your post. It's such a mess and your arguments don't exactly hold up.

Originally Posted by James81

It's pretty easy to validate. You go read books. You schedule a session with a psychic and see for yourself. You examine why it is that you want to hold onto your money so tightly that a session with someone would feel like such a great loss to you.

Or, you don't. You decide it's not for you and you go spend your money elsewhere instead of going on some crusade mission to try and save people from spending their money on something you don't think is valid.

Which books are you referring to? As far as I'm concerned, there are thousands to choose from and many are written by frauds who have been shown to use tactics like cold reading. I don't wish to spend my money that way playing a guessing game, but I do read a lot about psychics and the paranormal on the Internet.

Originally Posted by James81

It's akin to walking into a Walmart and demanding that the manager prove to you why a bag of fruit costs $5, when you think it should be much cheaper. If you don't want to pay $5, either not buy the bag of fruit, or try another market.

No, in fact, it's not at all akin to what you are describing.

When you walk into a store to buy a bag of fruit, you know very well that that bag of fruit will give you nourishment. You may not think the price is fair but at least you know what you are getting yourself into: you trade money for nourishment and there are no tricks.

On the other hand, you can't know that a psychic is actually communicating with the dead or that all of their information, say, about the existence of evil spirits, angels, the afterlife, etc. There is a huge difference that you should be able to see.

I strongly believe that a psychic can charge whatever price they wish if they are indeed doing what they claim to be doing, because you can't exactly put a price to a service like that- it really is invaluable.

[Syndicate]

Originally Posted by James81

So it's about protection? You want to protect people from the freedom to make up their own mind what they spend their money on?

I don't follow.

What's not to follow?

You refer to people who have the freedom to make up their own mind, but that's only one part of it. There are certainly people who can who make up their mind to spend money on psychic readings, but you can't deny that the much larger group of people who seek out psychic mediums who are grieving over losing a loved one, desperate for answers, and very keen on communicating with them. I would say that these people have a temporary state of mind where they are very vulnerable and prone to make irrational decisions.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Syndicate

What's not to follow?

You refer to people who have the freedom to make up their own mind, but that's only one part of it. There are certainly people who can who make up their mind to spend money on psychic readings, but you can't deny that the much larger group of people who seek out psychic mediums who are grieving over a lost one and looking for answers. I would say that these people are in a state of mind where they are very vulnerable and prone to make irrational decisions.

And how many of those people walk away feeling worse than when they went in?

Perhaps it might be helpful to realize that it's more important that the customer walks away feeling like they receieved something of value. If they walk away believing they talked to their dead relative, and that conversation gives them some sort of resolution inside of them, then who are you to question the validity of that?

Whether that was what ACTUALLY happened, if a person believes that is what happened and they find peace through that process, then it's worth every cent.

You are so focused on the literal "truth"...the validity of what you think is something absurd, that you aren't looking at things from the end of the customer. Your crusade of the truth might actually be impacting someone who made peace with themselves through this process choose to lose some of that peace or question that peace.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by Syndicate

What's not to follow?

You refer to people who have the freedom to make up their own mind, but that's only one part of it. There are certainly people who can who make up their mind to spend money on psychic readings, but you can't deny that the much larger group of people who seek out psychic mediums who are grieving over losing a loved one and desperate looking for answers. I would say that these people are in a state of mind where they are very vulnerable and prone to make irrational decisions.

Syndicate, you are not on the same frequency as James. Therefore you won't linguistically win this debate with him or make him see your point.

While you may feel like bashing your head against a brick wall now, that doesn't mean you are alone in your thinking especially outside this forum.

I believe Erin is a lovely honest person but for sure there is a problem with regulation. And yes James, that's exactly what it needs.

[Syndicate]

Originally Posted by James81

And how many of those people walk away feeling worse than when they went in?

Perhaps it might be helpful to realize that it's more important that the customer walks away feeling like they receieved something of value. If they walk away believing they talked to their dead relative, and that conversation gives them some sort of resolution inside of them, then who are you to question the validity of that?

Whether that was what ACTUALLY happened, if a person believes that is what happened and they find peace through that process, then it's worth every cent.

You are so focused on the literal "truth"...the validity of what you think is something absurd, that you aren't looking at things from the end of the customer. Your crusade of the truth might actually be impacting someone who made peace with themselves through this process choose to lose some of that peace or question that peace.

I see where you are coming from now but I believe that your argument fails, for me at least, because you are basically suggesting is that it doesn't matter if a psychic is actually talking to the dead or making it up as they go and that what is only important is that the client feels they are receiving value. This is disgusting because it is deceitful and it is a very unfortunate way for a person to live their life.

Sorry- doesn't work for me. You are either doing exactly what you are claiming you are doing or you're not. "Maybe I am communicating with the dead" is only acceptable if the client is made well aware that the service they are being offered is for entertainment purposes only.

[desertrat]

Evin Tomas Eidson was working on a device to comunicate with the dead . Some people point a camera at a tv to create feed back and claim to pick up ghosts . Others use white noise and amplifiers to hear ghosts . desert rat

[James81]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

Syndicate, you are not on the same frequency as James. Therefore you won't linguistically win this debate with him or make him see your point.

While you may feel like bashing your head against a brick wall now, that doesn't mean you are alone in your thinking especially outside this forum.

I believe Erin is a lovely honest person but for sure there is a problem with regulation. And yes James, that's exactly what it needs.

I irony is, I don't believe in being able to talk to the dead anymore than you do.

But I believe that there are people who very much do believe that, and that that belief helps them cope with their issues. And, to me, that's more important than the literal "truth" of the matter.

Originally Posted by Syndicate

I see where you are coming from now but I believe that your argument fails, for me at least, because you are basically suggesting is that it doesn't matter if a psychic is actually talking to the dead or making it up as they go and that what is only important is that the client feels they are receiving value. This is disgusting because it is deceitful and it is a very unfortunate way for a person to live their life.

Sorry- doesn't work for me. You are either doing exactly what you are claiming you are doing or you're not. "Maybe I am communicating with the dead" is only acceptable if the client is made well aware that the service they are being offered is for entertainment purposes only.

Your argument only holds up if the person DOING the sessions doesn't believe they can actually do what they claim. And I don't think that is the case. I think that the people who DO this work, believe they can do it just as much as their customers.

[Syndicate]

Originally Posted by James81

Your argument only holds up if the person DOING the sessions doesn't believe they can actually do what they claim. And I don't think that is the case. I think that the people who DO this work, believe they can do it just as much as their customers.

Wow. Do I actually respond to this? Is this what you actually believe?

EDIT: I think I sort of understand what you're saying. Still, for me, whether or not a psychic believes they are actually talking the dead or not is irrelevant because they are consciously charging for a service in which they claim they are indefinitely communicating with the dead. They are not advertising that they may be communicating with the dead, they are claiming that they indeed are.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Syndicate

Wow. Do I actually respond to this? Is this what you actually believe?

I see no evidence to the contrary.

Do you have some evidence to the contrary? Let's put the onus of responsibility back onto you. I like it better when people take responsibility for their own statements and thoughts, instead of demanding someone else prove it to them.

Are you willing to do that?

[Syndicate]

I don't think we will see eye to eye, so I think we should just agree to disagree.

[Syndicate]

To everybody who has contributed to this thread:

I want to thank you for all of your input over the past week. It's quite clear that many people found this thread interesting enough for it to go on for more than ten pages. This is certainly one of those issues that are tough to bring up but for the most part I have enjoyed the discussion with all of you and I do appreciate your perspectives on the matter, even if they are different than mine.

Although I initially directed my attention towards Erin and the claims she makes as a psychic medium, I think that as it went along the conversation began to take on an approach that focuses more on psychics in general and the psychic industry as a whole, which is a good thing.

I am not going to post in this thread anymore just because I believe that I have probably already learned all I can from it. I am someone who is interested in OBEs, psychics, the paranormal, and related issues- things that I still consider to be outside what I have yet to experience.

So long as the moderators permit it, feel free to continue the discussion so long as you are respectful of what other people believe. Debate can be a great thing. Hopefully you will at least make an effort to really understand the points that others are trying to make- I have admittedly failed in this area a few times, mainly due to frustration.

Thanks again for many of you continuing this discussion and sharing your point of view with me.

[Lena Carpenter]

I didn't read all the latest replies, but Syndicate, stop pretending you're not psychic. You have really fooled us. With interest and persistence like that in the topic, you are as psychic as they come.