Past lives and reincarnation false?

[marktb]

Hi Erin,

I have been reading alot of Enoch Tan's stuff on mindreality.com and he states that Lucifer has placed in the minds of the collective consciousness the false notion that we have lived past lives and somehow this belief is to Lucifer's benefit so we do not accept Christ and become close to God.

Can I get your opinion on this?

Mark

[carenkh]

Why would acceptance of Christ and a belief in past lives be exclusive to each other?

[Erin Pavlina]

First, we're assuming Lucifer exists. Second, we're assuming that Christ and God exist. And thirdly, we're assuming that accepting Christ and becoming closer to God is something we should be striving for. I can't really comment on something with that many assumptions I don't ascribe to.

[Lallymac]

Hi Mark,
I suggest you read Brian Weiss's book 'Many Lives Many Many Masters.' You may find some answers there.
Lallymac

[marktb]

Erin, please clarify. You dont "believe" in God nor Jesus? I am completely lost here.

Mark

[Erin Pavlina]

I don't believe in the God and Jesus discussed in the bible, at least not the way they are portrayed. It sounds like, from your first post, that you are referring to the characters discussed in the Holy Bible. Right?

[mkidd]

Yes, Weiss said something really cool during his interview with Oprah. He said he believes "we are not humans beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience."

I wantto read the book...

[marktb]

Erin, to be honest I dont know what I believe. I dont believe in anything. However, I am in a relationship wth a girl who is a "reborn Christian". She doesn't believe in pre-marital sex and is very influencened by what the Preacher and her Christain counselor says. We have constant arguments about religion and spirituality. I am very spiritual and she is very religious, or bible-oriented.

Mark

[Erin Pavlina]

Ah, how is that working out for you?

[marktb]

how do you think? I don't get it. Her and her
"Christian friends" think its ok to do "everything else" and use sex toys but to use my equipment is somehow not honoring God. Go figure that one. I dont mind the no sex thing. I really don't. Its the attitude and WHY that I am most disturbed with.

Mark

[Erin Pavlina]

Why are you still with her? Her values and yours don't seem in alignment.

[marktb]

Because I love her. ..

The church has imposed these beliefs onto her. She ran to the church after her divorce because she thought she needed it, but they, particularly her christian counselor, have tried and succeeded in making her think her past self was bad and if she followed the church's way she would still be married.

[dor]

the hindu and christian world views -and one that would accept reincarnation -are quite different,
the hindu world view is cyclical, while the christian one is liniear progression....

however, reincarnation has several explanations, as with psyhics and other claims of paranormal, i would say about 99% have some plausible explanation, the 1% is what's intriquing

reincarnation
Reincarnation Reexamined; Investigative Files (Skeptical Briefs March 1998)
Can Reincarnation Be Proven? -- Beliefnet.com

[shadow.pulsar]

Originally Posted by marktb

Hi Erin,

I have been reading alot of Enoch Tan's stuff on mindreality.com and he states that Lucifer has placed in the minds of the collective consciousness the false notion that we have lived past lives and somehow this belief is to Lucifer's benefit so we do not accept Christ and become close to God.

Can I get your opinion on this?

Mark

Every once in a while I feel the need to throw a cog in to the wheel. So here is my cog for the month.

Did you know that Lucifer is the Greek god of light and wisdom? I bet you didn't. Not too many do.

It is an interesting thing to think for a moment about the past, that Christianity rose up from the Romans (who didn't really like the Greeks) and that the Roman god and goddess for the sun and the moon were Apollo(Sun) and Artemis(Moon). The Greek counter part to them (we all know the Greeks and Romans had similar gods and goddesses) were Lucifer(Sun) and his sister Diana(Moon). When the Romans concurred the Greeks, the Greeks were forced to adopt the Roman pantheon. When the Roman empire changed from paganism to Christianity, who was better to turn into a demon than a revered god of your enemy?

It makes one wonder a bit as to why Christianity considers Lucifer the evil of all evils. What is their problem with light and wisdom?

Like my cogs?

~Shadow~

[marktb]

Shadow, interesting stuff. What is your source of this information? I am intrigued. Most "Christians" would denounce your statement but I am very open-minded and love to learn new things, regardless if I believe in them.

Thanks,
Mark

[dor]

Originally Posted by shadow.pulsar

Every once in a while I feel the need to throw a cog in to the wheel. So here is my cog for the month.

Did you know that Lucifer is the Greek god of light and wisdom? I bet you didn't. Not too many do.

It is an interesting thing to think for a moment about the past, that Christianity rose up from the Romans (who didn't really like the Greeks) and that the Roman god and goddess for the sun and the moon were Apollo(Sun) and Artemis(Moon). The Greek counter part to them (we all know the Greeks and Romans had similar gods and goddesses) were Lucifer(Sun) and his sister Diana(Moon). When the Romans concurred the Greeks, the Greeks were forced to adopt the Roman pantheon. When the Roman empire changed from paganism to Christianity, who was better to turn into a demon than a revered god of your enemy?

It makes one wonder a bit as to why Christianity considers Lucifer the evil of all evils. What is their problem with light and wisdom?

Like my cogs?

~Shadow~

evidence that the romans 'forced' the Greeks to adapt their gods? can you explain why for example the cult of Isis was extremely popular in the roman world (isis, of course was egyptian).
artemis, is the greek name :
Artemis (Greek: nominative Ἄρτεμις, genitive Ἀρτέμιδος) in Greek mythology the daughter of Zeus and of Leto and the twin sister of Apollo was one of the most widely venerated of the gods and manifestly one of the oldest deities (Burkert 1985:149). In later times she was combined with the Roman goddess Diana. In Etruscan mythology, she took the form of Artume. Deer and cypress are sacred to her.
nor was lucifer a greek sun god:
Apollo
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Apollo (disambiguation).
Lycian Apollo, early Imperial Roman copy of a fourth century Greek original (Louvre Museum)
Lycian Apollo, early Imperial Roman copy of a fourth century Greek original (Louvre Museum)

In Greek and Roman mythology, Apollo (Ancient Greek Ἀπόλλων, Apóllōn; or Ἀπέλλων, Apellōn), the ideal of the kouros (a statue of a male youth), was the archer-god of medicine and healing, light, truth, archery and also a bringer of death-dealing plague; as the leader of the Muses (Apollon Musagetes) and director of their choir, he is a god of music and poetry. Hymns sung to Apollo were called Paeans. The American missions to the moon, Project Apollo, were named for the go

but overall, I don't mean this in an insulting matter, but a brief reading of you post indicates to me you need to read up a little more on this subject, or at least document your claims in your post, and I would back of broad sweeping erroneous claims that christians are against light and wisdom, unless of course you can back up such no- such claims.

[shadow.pulsar]

Originally Posted by marktb

Shadow, interesting stuff. What is your source of this information? I am intrigued. Most "Christians" would denounce your statement but I am very open-minded and love to learn new things, regardless if I believe in them.

Thanks,
Mark

Thank you. Most? I think just about all of them would as it is almost impossible to find a modern day source for the very existence of Lucifer in Greek or Roman myth. However if you check this article: Aradia, or the Gospel of the Witches - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It has a brief mention of Diana and Lucifer. The book is called Aradia: The gospel of the Witches. and contains the myths of Diana, Lucifer and Aradia. As you can imagine the Christian community from the time the book was published up until present day had denounced and claimed the writings to be inaccurate. Really it comes down to intuition. Think of the word Lucifer. Then think of other words like lucid, lucent, lumen. Those words have meaning in light and wisdom as does Lucifer.

It rally boils down to point of view. I could get more sources for you, but I would need a very long time to find them. On a subject like this and when the majority (Christian) has suppressed information like this, it is not easy to come up with them.

I guess that is the universes' way of throwing a cog in me.


~Shadow~

[shadow.pulsar]

Originally Posted by dor

evidence that the romans 'forced' the Greeks to adapt their gods? can you explain why for example the cult of Isis was extremely popular in the roman world (isis, of course was egyptian).
artemis, is the greek name :
Artemis (Greek: nominative Ἄρτεμις, genitive Ἀρτέμιδος) in Greek mythology the daughter of Zeus and of Leto and the twin sister of Apollo was one of the most widely venerated of the gods and manifestly one of the oldest deities (Burkert 1985:149). In later times she was combined with the Roman goddess Diana. In Etruscan mythology, she took the form of Artume. Deer and cypress are sacred to her.
nor was lucifer a greek sun god:
Apollo
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Apollo (disambiguation).
Lycian Apollo, early Imperial Roman copy of a fourth century Greek original (Louvre Museum)
Lycian Apollo, early Imperial Roman copy of a fourth century Greek original (Louvre Museum)

In Greek and Roman mythology, Apollo (Ancient Greek Ἀπόλλων, Apóllōn; or Ἀπέλλων, Apellōn), the ideal of the kouros (a statue of a male youth), was the archer-god of medicine and healing, light, truth, archery and also a bringer of death-dealing plague; as the leader of the Muses (Apollon Musagetes) and director of their choir, he is a god of music and poetry. Hymns sung to Apollo were called Paeans. The American missions to the moon, Project Apollo, were named for the go

but overall, I don't mean this in an insulting matter, but a brief reading of you post indicates to me you need to read up a little more on this subject, or at least document your claims in your post, and I would back of broad sweeping erroneous claims that christians are against light and wisdom, unless of course you can back up such no- such claims.

No not insulting at all. My previous post states that it is all but impossible to find a modern day source on this topic and it is quite true. Yes wikipedia was the first place I went to check this. However, is it not interesting to see that when just about every god and goddess in the Greek pantheon has a Roman counterpart, the Greek and Roman sun gods are listed as Apollo? I would expect that a major deity, such as that of a sun god, would not be shared between to different yet similar cultures and pantheons.

On a separate note, not all Christians are against light and wisdom. That is over generalized on my part and I should have been more specific to relate that what I had meant there was that the Christian leaders and establishment at that time were the ones that were against it. Make the populace see light and wisdom as evil and they become easy to control so was their thinking. Theses things do tend to carry forward through time and the Vatican tends to lean towards this a bit today with the policies they release.

Anyway, good debate is a good thing. It teaches all and I am always open to leaning new things, even if it makes me wrong. 'Tis a silly thing to fear.

~Shadow~

[Rockchick26]

I wish i had seen this post before posting mine about past lives,in the psychic forum,a few minutes ago. Mark,I,too,love learning about new things whether or not i believe in them,and this is my newest interest. I'm still on the fence about it,but i have yet to read those links up there that dor posted.

[sheffy4]

Originally Posted by shadow.pulsar

It makes one wonder a bit as to why Christianity considers Lucifer the evil of all evils. What is their problem with light and wisdom?

~Shadow~

Nice cog,

I am no bible expert, but I believe Lucifer was an angel and became "evil" in Christianity because he disobeyed God in some way. I don't know what he did, but I know he somehow went against God.
So it's not that Christian's don't like light and wisdom; they don't like people (or angels) who disobey God.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by shadow.pulsar

Every once in a while I feel the need to throw a cog in to the wheel. So here is my cog for the month.

Did you know that Lucifer is the Greek god of light and wisdom? I bet you didn't. Not too many do.

It is an interesting thing to think for a moment about the past, that Christianity rose up from the Romans (who didn't really like the Greeks) and that the Roman god and goddess for the sun and the moon were Apollo(Sun) and Artemis(Moon). The Greek counter part to them (we all know the Greeks and Romans had similar gods and goddesses) were Lucifer(Sun) and his sister Diana(Moon). When the Romans concurred the Greeks, the Greeks were forced to adopt the Roman pantheon. When the Roman empire changed from paganism to Christianity, who was better to turn into a demon than a revered god of your enemy?

It makes one wonder a bit as to why Christianity considers Lucifer the evil of all evils. What is their problem with light and wisdom?

Like my cogs?

~Shadow~

I truly think you need to be a little more cognizant of what you speak before you do so.

Lucifer had nothing to do with the Greeks and any attempt to place him there is Neo-Pagan gobbledy gook that has about as much validity as post-doctoral work for Lemmings. Lucifer was a Hebrew construction - the "Son of the Morning Star" and highly favored by God.

Isaiah 14:12-17 states: " How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [How] you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.' Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit. "Those who see you will gaze at you, [And] consider you, [saying:] '[Is] this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms, Who made the world as a wilderness And destroyed its cities, [Who] did not open the house of his prisoners?' New King James Version

In the book of Revelation Chapter 12, Lucifer, who after his fall became known as Satan, is referred to as a "dragon". But what was he like before he became Satan? According to the the Bible (Various versions use different words but the gist is the same) Lucifer, had:


1. Perfect Beauty - Lucifer was probably the most beautiful creature in the universe

2. Complete Wisdom - Isn't it ironic that both Lucifer and Solomon were wise, yet both rebelled against God?

3. He walked in Eden the garden of God - This is probably referring to a pre-adamic eden.

4. He was adorned with riches - This signifies that he was was ruler (like a king) who was given the riches of the land. Riches glorify kings.

5. He was one of the Cherub - Cherubim are associated with guarding the holiness of God (Gen. 3:24), with the throne of God (Ezek. 1:5), and here apparently with the actual presence of God. Satan was on the holy mountain of God and he walked in the midst of the stones of fire, likely references to the presence of God Himself. Apparently Satan was the chief guardian of God’s holiness and majesty.


6. He was perfect -How could such a magnificent creature become such an evil loathsome being we now know as Satan? Referred to in Revelation 12:7 as a "dragon" Dragon is derived from the Greek word drakwn which means "hideous monster or serpent".

Lucifer’s sin lay in his ambition to ascend into heaven and set his throne above the stars of God and to become equal with God. Beholding his own beauty, a created beauty, and being lifted up in pride, he aspired to leave the bounds of his proper position as a created being and fell into sin.

Of course, this really only matters if you want to follow a Christian tradition. I gave that up long ago, but still, as my mother says; "You have to know the rules before you can break them."

Sorry shadow.pulsar, your "cog" is limp and your argument pedantic.

[Herbalist]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

I don't believe in the God and Jesus discussed in the bible, at least not the way they are portrayed.

However, you recognize his powers, as I know. I'm not sure if I saw any of your detailed posts about Jesus, so I'll go and check them.

But still I'm very interested in your opinion about Jesus. Who is he for you? In what things about him you beleive?