John Edward and Allison DuBois on Oprah (Blog)

[Erin Pavlina]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Erin Pavlina's blog:

John Edward and Allison DuBois on Oprah

[janlee]

Hi Erin

I read ur blog on Allison Du Bois and John Edward, both of whom I greatly admire.. I also watch both programs. I love MEDIUM becos it makes me feel normal.. when i first watched i was so glad in my heart. I bought series 1 on dvd and eagerly await series 2 on dvd. there is a 3rd series in the pipeline and can't wait to see it here in the UK.

I agree with everything that was said. Except the scientist... bless..

there's an old saying that i like:

to those who know, no explanation is necessary;
to those who don't know, no explanation is possible.

I've been on a spiritual path since i was 30 (20 yrs now), and trained with a v good medium in a closed home circle. He was president of a spiritualist church. I also trained as a spiritual healer at the church. I learned a lot in those days, back in the late 80's. I have ran meditation circles since. currently I am having a break from doing readings, as I need to sort my life out - a lot of changes have happened lately - and am just finding my feet.

It is strange when u can't connect with someone for a reading... its disappointing for them and urself. That hasn't happened a lot... one sitter was delighted when her beloved dog made contact, sure u know how it goes..

I call myself a psychic medium cos it best describes my gifts.. I am psychic and pick up things from people's auras, and also tune into to spirit for mediumship (which includes clairvoyance, clairaudience, clairsentience).

It's wonderful to be blessed with these gifts tho at times can be a double edged sword. I don't mind skeptics as long as they are prepared to keep an open mind... Have done readings for skeptics and some of them do "stonewall" u... that can be hard... remember one woman and her husband was coming thru and telling me the watch she was wearing was a gift from him and even what was engraved on the back! She was torn - crying - and couldnt let herself believe it, even then... bless her.

Nice to make contact with u.. i only recently joined this site... and i think it is great.

Love and Light

Jan

[Erin Pavlina]

Hello Jan, welcome and I'm glad you came to express your thoughts.

I love that quote... very true. That has definitely been my experience.

[sirkinm]

I enjoy Steve's blog very much, and I'm an occasional visitor to Erin's blog. I initially began checking Erin's blog out after listening to her guest podcasts on Steve's blog - they were quite good (and she has a sweet, very pleasant voice).

I'm not against the notion that psychic abilities can exist, and I can see the problem with trying to verify something that may not lend itself to scientific testing (I know that the guy in the audience said that there are scientific papers, I have to take that w/ a grain of salt until I see the peer-reviewed papers myself). Personally, I believe in psychic abilities to some extent, but doubt that they can be proven by science, because the scientific method is based on an attempt at objectivity, while psychic stuff seems to be highly belief-oriented.

Anyways, I also believe that John Edward is a fake. Many with no proclaimed psychic abilities have demonstrated that they can elicit the same reactions in people, and have even higher perceived accuracy.

I have the same feelings about Sylvia Browne. If you watch either of them after reading an explanation of the cold reading technique -- and you see people w/o any proclaimed psychic abilities utilizing the same technique -- you see how often they are a) dead wrong, but disguise it w/ fast talking and a quick correction, b) fishing for information using questions with very general identifying info that applies to most people (Sylvia: "The deceased is indicating an individual w/ an M? - a Matt or a Mark..." Audience member: "His favorite nephew was Mike..." S: "Yeah, Mike."), and c) talk in a way that makes it appear that they just produced all the info that results, even when it mostly comes from the actual individual. Sylvia is easier to spot, because when she appears on Montel or (better yet) Larry King, there isn't the type of editing that J. Edward's show does. And why do we even want to talk to the dead if they all just want to tell us that they are happy and in a better place, and that we should go on w/our lives. The dead are a bit repetitive, ay?

I realize that whichever view I take is going to highly color my perception, but looking at it objectively as possible, it seems that the evidence is undeniable.

I'm not suggesting that I think Erin is a phony in any fashion. If I had the extra money righ now, I'd love to get a reading from her.

[Erin Pavlina]

Hi Sirkinm,

People like to connect with their dead relatives to make sure they are okay and no longer suffering, that they are at peace, and sometimes to get important information that involves unfinished business.

You mentioned peer reviewed articles. Have you sought out any evidence that psychic abilities are real? Or have you decided they are not and are finding evidence to support that belief? I like the quote someone posted:

To those who believe, no explanation is necessary
To those who don't believe, no explanation is possible

I can't comment on Sylvia Browne and her abilities since my experiences with her are extremely limited (though she did read for Steve very accurately at the I Can Do It conference).

I have seen John Edward in person and I found him to be very accurate and not at all cold reading people. You'd have to see him in person to get a good idea of how he actually works. What you see on TV has been edited to be interesting to a large audience, but when you're there and he's spending 30 minutes on one person or one family you begin to realize there is no way he is doing a cold reading. Have you seen John perform in person? I like to decide for myself whether I think someone is a fake or not. I prefer to trust my personal experience over what I read from others whose agendas and experiences are unknown to me.

I do see how some people could fake a psychic reading, but that doesn't mean all proclaimed psychics are fake.

I think you have a fair interest in this sort of phenomenon otherwise you wouldn't have bothered to post your thoughts. Keep investigating and see what you think.

[mkidd]

I signed up for a free 3-day trial of xm radio for the "oprah and friends" channel and she's had a fascinating series on the soul. She interviewed Yale educated Miami psychiatrist Dr. Brian Weiss, author of Many Lives, Many Masters.

It was incredible. Gave me chills. You can't read the interview here, but you can get a bit more on the case, Catherine, that started him on this here
http://www2.oprah.com/xm/oprah/oprah_main.jhtml

It can't say enough how fascinating it was. He was treating a woman from China, who knew no english, had a translator even. Under hypnosis she started speaking as someone from the pacific NW, with perfect english. The translator was so stunned he started translating her responded back into Chinese.

[sirkinm]

Hey Erin -

Thanks for the reply. For one, it was snooty of me to mention peer-reviewed journals, as if I go about trying to verify all my experiences by referencing peer-reviewed journals.

I've read quite a few books on psychic phenomenon (including Sylvia Browne's!) and some of them have the ring of truth, while others don't do it for me. I haven't sought out scientific papers that proclaims the validity of psychic abilities because I just assumed (possibly incorrectly) that if a credible source proclaimed such a thing, it would be the story of the century. Anyways, to balance what I've read on psychic stuff, I've read a good deal of sceptic stuff, including James Randi's ("The Amazing Randi), and I think the guy is sincere in trying to protect the public from hoaxes, and he's uncovered a lot of very flawed scientific explorations of the paranormal, and I wonder if some of it is being used as proof despite it being discredited. Oh, the drama between James Randi and Sylvia Browne is great entertainment too.

Regardless, I respect your position that you need no further proof than your direct experience, and my personal experience w/the supernatural reflects I see to the extent that I'm willing to see.

I haven't seen John Edward in person, and to be honest, I haven't seen much of him on tv -- his voice and facial expressions make me cringe. I'm not particularly sensitive to that type of thing, and there's only maybe one other famous person whose speaking fashion makes me feel like that (George W...). I probably assumed too much to parallel John Edward w/Sylvia Browne, who you didn't even mention.

I would love to connect w/my mom, who developed a mental illness that eventually made her take her life, but I would be very mad if someone said they were communicating w/her when they were really just putting one over on me. Maybe that's why J. Edward and S. Browne make me feel so defensive.

[Erin Pavlina]

I totally understand your hesitation in trusting someone you don't know to deliver such important information.

When I do readings I don't always connect with a deceased person. For me, at least for right now, I usually connect when the person died recently, or under circumstances like suicide, murder, or accident, or if there is unfinished business. I hope to one day get to a point where I can connect with a grandparent long deceased with nothing more to say than "hello."

Now, often, one of these long deceased people WILL come through during a reading, but in those cases it really feels like they are coming to me and i'm not having to go "dial them up" so to speak. I'm still learning so much about when and why they show up.

It's been very rewarding for me to be able to hook up some people with deceased relatives. Usually the person will show themselves to me in a way my sitter will recognize, and they almost always show me their cause of death or somehow explain how they died. I've had some very unusual cases in that respect.

But anyway, I digress. I really like John Edward. I'm still reserving judgment on Sylvia. I love Doreen Virtue and John Holland (both of whom I've seen in person).

[Lallymac]

There is nothing quite like personal experience to sway the reluctant mind. One of closest friends (now) came to me 10 yrs ago to prove to her husband (who had taken an interest in healing) that the psychic was 'all stuff and nonsense. Fred had been sneaking out to my classes and she was a life long Christian and irate when she found out. Her Mum died of cancer when my friend was 11. She came through along with a whole lot of other personal healing information about earlier traumas in her life. After half an hour she was asking questions and wanting to know more. She's now a very gifted medium herself. I saw it in her the moment she walked through my door. We laugh about it now.
Lallymac

[janlee]

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

--From Hamlet (I, v, 166-167)


It is always good to keep an open mind, and it is also good to be skeptical...

some of the bigest skeptics on things psychic become the biggest believers and upholders of it...

U find ur own truth and only u can look for it...

In order to judge some subject, first u must study it to understand it. then u must understand it.. and then, u can judge it...

I have studied mediumship for over 20 years, and have found my own truth.. and it is my truth ...

My bro in law is the biggest skeptic I know and since I've been staying with my sis and himself, he's opening his eyes - which is wonderful!! He even asked me for a sitting the other day!!

love n light

jan lee

[rationalThought]

Suspend your desire to believe for half an hour:

Allison DuBois - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

}- The Two Percent Company [] Rants -{ , from which "... the only person who attests to the truth of Allison's claims is Allison herself, and the agencies she claims to have helped have disavowed any knowledge of her assistance."

James Randi Educational Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - esp. James Randi Educational Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of prizes for evidence of the paranormal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - none claimed

After-Death Communication Studies by Gary Schwartz (Skeptical Inquirer November 2001)

Shoe leather, not sixth sense, breaks cases open - Profiler's Perspective - MSNBC.com

[Lallymac]

Anyone can post anything on wikipedia and suddenly its gospel!!
Watching 'The Medium' has been the closest thing I've seen to the experiences I've had with spirit. I've watched many episodes with tears spilling down my face from relatedness. I think Allison DuBois is a very courageous lady.
Lallymac

[rationalThought]

I don't think you suspended your desire to believe, did you? Did you even read any of the information I posted? Or just ignore it, knowing that it refutes what you want to be true?

Who said wikipedia was gospel? It simply casts doubt on the validity of Ms Dubois' claims. The other links add to that doubt, both specifically and generically with regards supernatural powers.

Just because you want something to be true doesn't make it so. There needs to be evidence, proof. Without that, all you've got is wishful thinking and delusion.

Allison Dubois is at best delusional, and more likely a self-promoting fraud who is taking large quantities of money from the gullible.


P.S. You do realise 'Medium' on television is a *total* work of fiction?

[Lallymac]

Originally Posted by rationalThought

Just because you want something to be true doesn't make it so. There needs to be evidence, proof. Without that, all you've got is wishful thinking and delusion.

Sorry hun but I have a mountain of life experience evidence that goes far beyond wishful thinking or delusion. The delusion is that this physical reality is all there is. One day you'll see for yourself.
Lallymac

[rationalThought]

Well sweetie, that's a winning argument there ... can't fault it. lol.

Seriously, without evidence all you have is a mountain of wishful thinking and delusion ... like every other person desperate to believe in the spiritual / supernatural.

Again, you telling me it's fact doesn't make it so.

You've got one, natural life ... after that you're worm food and nothing else. You won't get to see that.

[Lallymac]

Hey babe,
You saying it's not don't make it so either. And seriously, the evidence is there if you look for it. All I can say is, you're in for a nice suprise when you leave this world.
Lallymac

[rationalThought]

The burden of proof isn't on me. I'm not the one making fantastical claims.

[negate7o4]

LOL, Worm food. its a awfull thought to have that there is nothing after this life but after intense study of the brain humans do look alot like machines and becomming worm food is a good rational conclussion.

keep a open mind though rationalThought