What if we lie about something?

[seramadis]

Hi! Just a quickie here. What if we lie about something about the past, not the present which we hope we are trying to live in the most honest and integral way. But let's say in the past things happened which people are ashamed of, not things that they did wrong but bad things happened to them, they got raped or mugged or someone abused them, or someone did a fraud on them and took thousands of dollars from them, or they were misdiagnosed with a mental illness and spent some time living in an insane asylum, that sort of thing, and since they are ashamed of that they don't want anyone to know about it, so they lie about it? Just wondering about your general opinions about this. Thanks!

[Samuel Poon]

I wouldn't care if they lie about it. Their intent is to not cause a fuss over something they don't want to talk about. So respect it.

But I'm not really sure what you mean by the question. "What if we lie ..." You lie.. so what? Doesn't matter to me, only the intent of the lie does.

[HAGITLOVE]

I believe in a world full with love, so I say never lie, be honest, say and live the truth.

[seeker5]

There are two main consequences to lying:

1) The harm it does to yourself, to your inner being.
2) The harm it does to relations with others.

Which one of these consequences were you thinking about in your OP?

[YourHumbleNarrator]

Originally Posted by HAGITLOVE

I believe in a world full with love, so I say never lie, be honest, say and live the truth.

So you've converted to another religion and you're with your family who's staunchly Christian. You get along with them, for the most part. They've done well by you and you want to honor that, but if you put your religious views out in the open they'll crucify you. Should you make it a point to tell them?

To make the scenario more interesting, put yourself in the place of a teenager who doesn't agree with his parents' religion but has little choice in terms of where he lives and what he does for the next few years. He could easily make his home situation miserable by coming forward with his beliefs.

Believing in love doesn't make everybody loving toward you.

Edit: I realize this could drag things off topic. While it's related to lying, it's a different sub-sect of lying than the OP wanted to delve into. If a mod sees fit to move/alter the post I'll certainly understand.

I think my opinion of the topic at hand is obvious from what I said. Admitting you were in an insane asylum would mark you for life within some circles. You'd have to be really, really good at humanizing yourself if you chose to be open about it, so good that they couldn't possibly demonize you. (And even then things might get a little weird.)

It begs the question of whether you would have to lie, though. What's past is past. Change your name, go somewhere new, keep the conversation in the present. Only talk about the past with people you implicitly trust. A bit simplistic, but it could work.

[seeker5]

There is a difference between lying, and volunteering information. You can refuse to lie, without volunteering any info you prefer not to discuss. Living a life of absolute not saying any lie, does not mean going around and blabbing your whole life and all your beliefs to anyone around you.

It is true that there are consequences to refusing to lie. You may get kicked out of a community, you may get people upset at you, you may lose a job, you may have your parents upset at you if you're a teenager. I still say the consequences of those are better than the consequences of not being true to yourself. If the cost of being accepted by some people means you have to make it a habit of lying to them, I say the cost is way too high and it's time to remove those people from your life.

Not to mention, those people wouldn't really be accepting you for who you truly are, and the whole time you're lying to them about who you truly are, you're telling yourself you're not good enough. That is quite damaging to the self.

[YourHumbleNarrator]

Originally Posted by seeker5

It is true that there are consequences to refusing to lie. You may get kicked out of a community, you may get people upset at you, you may lose a job, you may have your parents upset at you if you're a teenager. I still say the consequences of those are better than the consequences of not being true to yourself.

But do you have to tell them who you really are to be true to yourself? It doesn't have to be about acceptance. You can know you're good enough while simultaneously believing that telling the truth will make things significantly harder on you. I was raised around psycho conservatives and having seen what I and my friends went through there's little doubt that sometimes the best strategy is to keep your mouth shut until you're out of reach. Sometimes that will involve lying-there's no two ways about it. Indoctrination doesn't work if you never have to carry the party line and these people are good at what they do. (And it's not illegal so there's no way to stop it until you're old enough to walk away.)

That doesn't mean there is never a time to come forward, but it ain't exactly cut and dry. If you don't have the upper hand and there's no point in taking a beating, whether it's literal or metaphorical, you've got to think up something else.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by seeker5

There is a difference between lying, and volunteering information. You can refuse to lie, without volunteering any info you prefer not to discuss. Living a life of absolute not saying any lie, does not mean going around and blabbing your whole life and all your beliefs to anyone around you.

It is true that there are consequences to refusing to lie. You may get kicked out of a community, you may get people upset at you, you may lose a job, you may have your parents upset at you if you're a teenager. I still say the consequences of those are better than the consequences of not being true to yourself. If the cost of being accepted by some people means you have to make it a habit of lying to them, I say the cost is way too high and it's time to remove those people from your life.

Not to mention, those people wouldn't really be accepting you for who you truly are, and the whole time you're lying to them about who you truly are, you're telling yourself you're not good enough. That is quite damaging to the self.

There are parts of my life I do not wish to recount. If there I am questioned about that time of my life I sometimes say it is something I do not wish to discuss at this time. This answer usually works for me and when pressed I repeat the statement with kindness in my heart and if necessary walk away.

[Dhaval Raja]

Speaking 100% truth can give you an amazing sense of power but it has some downturns too. If you're not being honest about yourself, it means you fear judgment and/or consequence of judgment from other people. So its necessary to develop your power along with truth. While speaking truth about others who may not be powerful might hurt them, so speaking truth about others should be done with care and love induced and with lots of understanding to avoid them getting hurt.

I did a 30 day trial on being 100% honest. I wrote about the experience here My Experiments with Truth !!!

Let me know what you guys think?
Regards,
Dhaval

[seramadis]

What if you're a part of a Witness Protection Program? There you would have to lie all the time about who you really are, your real name, where you come from, etc. If you didn't do that the criminals could find you, come after you and kill you and your family.

And also if you were dead then you could no longer go to court and testify and put the criminals who are on trial out of business!

Anyways I put on this thread because I was reading Erin's blog about living an honest life, and it said that if someone wanted to comment on the blog to click *here*, so I did and wrote into the box that came up. I didn't realize it was a new thread, I thought it was an existing thread dealing specifically with this particular blog. Sorry if I got some people confused wondering what the **** is this thread all about!

Anyways I personally believe that sometimes it's alright to lie. I think it's okay to lie when lying will serve a greater good. For example you could save someone's life by lying. Maybe a criminal is looking for an innocent person to kill that person, and you are sheltering that person in your house, and you meet up with the criminal and he/she asks you if you are sheltering the innocent person in your house.

Or as in the case of the Witness Protection Program I just gave up above.

Or another example, I once read where a woman was in a concentration camp and she saved the lives of many of her fellow inmates by lying to the Nazi officers, stealing bread, etc.

[Brutha]

What if you're a part of a Witness Protection Program? There you would have to lie all the time about who you really are, your real name, where you come from, etc. If you didn't do that the criminals could find you, come after you and kill you and your family.

You don't really have to lie to anyone. Witholding information is enough.

Or another example, I once read where a woman was in a concentration camp and she saved the lives of many of her fellow inmates by lying to the Nazi officers, stealing bread, etc.

There situations where you can either die or turn the back on your principles and live a miserable life.
If you believe in an afterlife and in things like karma the way Erin does, dying the honorable death can be the better choice than violating your principles.
If you however fear death you get problems in such situations.

People who choose to live according to principle go different about daily life. They have charisma that helps them to life daily life.
Commitment to principles produces gains that you don't see when you focus on some thought experiment in which you push conditions to the extreme.

[ttt]

Lying is always witholding information- that what you say is made-up.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Brutha

There situations where you can either die or turn the back on your principles and live a miserable life.

I don't agree that lying in selected situation means you'll live a miserable life. I believe in being honest and not lying, except for a few very clearly defined situations that I have thought and defined. Those situations pretty much involve death, or being physically coerced against my will or physically threatened. An example, is if someone askss me where someone else is with the intent to kill them. If that situation comes up, I will lie with no qualms. I'm willing to take the small hit to my self-view to lie in that situation. But I'm pretty sure I won't live a miserable life for doing so, and those exceptions come up quite rarely.