Health Goal Update for April 13, 2009 (Blog)

[Erin Pavlina]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Erin Pavlina's blog:

Health Goal Update for April 13, 2009

[Angela]

Congratulations on letting go of that 1.2! Yay!!

Just FYI, you are going for a much higher target heart rate than I use. I go for 45 minutes to an hour at about 65 to 75% of my max, which tops out at about 120. That was hard at first because it felt so slow, but it has turned me into a fat-burning machine.

[jpletting]

Keep up the fantastic work, honey! I also have a horrible addiction to Wendy's french fries, they're my Achilles heel, so I know how tough it can sometimes be to say no.

[Erin Pavlina]

Yeah on the heart rate thing... I mean, I can easily keep my heart rate in the 125 - 135 range. Is that going to do anything for me? For some reason I was under the impression that 140 or higher was important. I'm 39, so (220 - 39) x .7 = 126. Isn't that enough?

[Angela]

For a couple of years, I was going for the 140 -- pushing myself to go for a sweaty, speedy 30 minute run/walk that would leave me exhausted and exhiliarated. I loved the endorphin high and I was pretty fit, but I wasn't eliminating much of any fat.

It was really hard for me to slow way down to between 104 and 120. It felt so counterintuitive to slow down to where it barely felt like a workout -- barely breaking a sweat. Also, the endorphins were kicking in at Minute 8 of my Maniac Rabbit Workouts, but didn't show up till around Minute 24 of my Tortoise Workouts, which thwarted my inner endorphin junkie. I hate delaying my gratification.

AND... I lost seven pounds the first week, slowing down to 12 pounds after six weeks, and then I got down to 20 pounds which I've kept off. I was also eating much cleaner, but I think it was the exercise at least as much as the eating, because now, when I continue on the same exercise plan, I can pig out for a week on vacation and gain not an ounce. I feel myself burning much hotter, and I continually have to go faster to hit that 104 to 120 heart rate, which I understand is a sign that my metabolism is consistently improving -- another sign of that is that I can (in fact, I feel like I must) eat more calories to keep my fire stoked. Sometimes when I'm up-shifting, I have to eat MORE food than is normally comfortable -- until my body gets used to it and I move into another up-shift. I read somewhere that Michael Phelps eats twelve THOUSAND calories a day to fuel his furnace. Wowee!

Now I've learned to prefer the slower, longer workouts, because I don't have the old chronic knee, calf, and foot pain that I used to think was "good" pain that was a sign of being fit.

And sometimes I do a Maniac Power Walk for 20 minutes just to get the endorphin buzz, which now kicks in at around Minute 3.

[Erin Pavlina]

I ain't got nothing that resembles endorphins. Nuh uh. where do I sign up to get those suckers?

Well for about a year I was doing an hour on the elliptical and going at a relatively slow pace with a heart rate of 100-120 probably. It was long but easy. I wonder which method will burn me the most fat though?

[valpal215]

Hello, Erin, are you still using Calorie King?


Val

[Elfwing]

Congratulations for the progress!

I'm fixing up my health as well, though instead of trying to lose weight (I'm actually quite slim), I'm trying to gain more energy. I have a touch of fatigue, and I half-believe it's chronic fatigue, because although the doctor says it's low iron levels causing it, I've been on iron tablets before and they didn't do anything. Now that I've been having a lot of fruit juice (well, for me), my energy has been increasing. Right now, my goal is to be able to do 100 consecutive pushups at the end of 6 weeks of training. I started day one yesterday. On my off-days, I do five sit ups and five pushups each day, and I'm hoping to do two minutes on the exercise bike as well every now and then, if I feel up to it. I know better than to get too ambitious.

My energy levels are changing for sure. Even though I'm having more energy, my sleep cycle has gone absolutely haywire. One night I'll get twelve hours sleep, then six hours after I get up I feel like passing out. I'll try to go another six hours before I'll go to bed, then I'll sleep five or six hours and be up all of the next day. It's getting very hard to predict my needs. Yesterday I made the mistake of trying to prevent this with coffee, which only made my brain go haywire, and three hours later I was trying not to pass out again. I went to bed at six in the afternoon, woke up at midnight and felt wide awake.

Today is going to be interesting.

Congratulations for not eating french fries as well! I had to make myself drop chocolate as the first part of eating better (which I started eating again. D'arvit!), and the first week was really difficult, then after that I never had any cravings at all.

Really glad to see that things are going well!

[Angela]

Well, maybe at some point you'll give it a try -- maybe switch for two weeks (5x a week x 45m-1h) and see what kind of results you get, without changing your eating habits so you'll see the contrast more clearly.

A lot of people say faster interval training is better for burning fat, but that just wasn't so for me -- I got dramatically better results when I went Tortoise. The appearance of my body hadn't changed in a loooong time doing fast intervals, then all of a sudden -- BABOOM! -- lean, hot, and feeling great. (I was lucky, too -- my breasts stayed baboomtious while the rest of me shrunk.)

Also, you might want to INTEND an endorphin high -- actually ask your unconscious to provide it for you if it's safe and appropriate.

[Erin Pavlina]

I will ask.

I would prefer to go tortoise actually but I want to do what's going to work for me. Guess experimentation is best.

[Zas]

Congratulations on the obstacles being overcome.

You know though, your comments about fries reminded me about this recipe I've always wanted to try: Bake-tastic Butternut Squash Fries!

Unfortunately, I tend to blow things up when allowed into the kitchen- but maybe someday I'll be up to the task. If anyone else has tried these or something similar, I'd be interested in knowing how they came out.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Good for you, Erin. Getting thinner will make exercising easier, too. You'll have less of you to move on the eliptical machine.

The key to being healthy is eating mostly unprocessed foods. Processed foods are bad. White flour, white sugar, those kinds of things are really bad when it comes to gaining weight. Nuts and seeds are very filling and allow you to lose more weight than eating too many carbs. Ideally, the only carbs you consume are fruits and vegetables, but this isn't a perfect world. Just keep your food 90% unprocessed and you will lose weight fast until you hit your optimal weight.

Best of luck to you.

[Aware]

Hi Erin, Congratulations on your progress. I wish you luck the rest of the journey to health and vitality. I'm on my own journey of that too. RE: French fries, I was going to suggest making your own, out of different vegetables. Then I saw that Zas had already suggested butternut squash one's - I also use parsnips or sweet potatoes.

But, what I do is this -

Chop [parsnips/sweet potatoes/butternut squash] into the desirable shape and place into a large mixing bowl.

Pour over cold pressed olive oil(ummm), braggs liquid aminos(replaces the salt), oregano, basil and some garlic or cayenne. Mix together with the "chips".

Place on a baking tray - oven on full heat - and bake for 20 - 30 minutes or until soft and crisp. YUM. I then poor braggs apple cider vinegar over them.
It's delicious, you should try!!

Originally Posted by Zas

You know though, your comments about fries reminded me about this recipe I've always wanted to try: Bake-tastic Butternut Squash Fries!

Unfortunately, I tend to blow things up when allowed into the kitchen- but maybe someday I'll be up to the task. If anyone else has tried these or something similar, I'd be interested in knowing how they came out.

[lacinato]

I find what almost all the experts say to be true, that 20 mins of intense intervals does more than 40 mins of slow work. Don't forget that intervals burn more calories afterwards, when you're not exercising, as well.

Generally I prefer slow and steady, but killer intervals give me an endorphin buzz like nothing else. It just sucks to get there. I have to work *very* hard and feel almost sick.

[TimG]

hi Erin

Regarding your heart rate:

Like you, I also like to experiment, but I usually find that there is existing theory that supports whatever I find from experimenting on myself.

So isn't it better to find out the theory, then experiment along those lines? It's a faster track to the same result, with less trial, and certainly less error.

Trouble is the common heart rate training theory is ok at a general level, but breaks down quickly at the individual level.

I am interested in how you worked out your "target heart rate"? I'd also be interested to know other details like your "maximum heart rate" and how it was calculated, as well as a typical week of training - what you do and for how long. Finally, how you feel while doing each thing, is it easy? or does it make you short of breath, or does it make you breathless?

Based on your reply I could help you with answers to the questions you have about workout intensity and type of training to do (eg: mix of elliptical and weights). Then you could either follow them up with someone you trust or trial and error them yourself and see if it works for you.

I also understand you probably get a million such offers but here's another if you care to use it. No offence taken if you don't

Cheers
Tim

[Angela]

Originally Posted by lacinato

I have to work *very* hard and feel almost sick.

Yeah, I once thought that was a good thing, too.

[TimG]

For all the folks talking about "intervals" vs "tortoise"...

Here's some little self-experiment numbers:

Two days ago I walked for 60 minutes. I watched my heart rate monitor and kept it steady at about 60%. Steady means that the maximum recorded was within 5 bpm of the average over the 60 minutes.

I burned 257 calories according to my heart rate monitor.

Yesterday I took my indoor cycling class which was also 60 minutes. The class structure is very similar to "intervals", and my average heart rate was up over 80% with a maximum of 95%. You can see I worked much harder, because the intensity was much higher.

I burned 1042 calories according to my heart rate monitor.

So whether the monitor is entirely accurate or not, relatively speaking, for 60 minutes of exercise, which was most effective?

However it takes time and adaptations to safely and enjoyably train at that sort of intensity. It's not for everyone, at least not initially.

Training programs need to be tailored to the individual, so it's not right to say "intervals are better" - it depends on who you are talking about and what stage they are at.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by TimG

...which was most effective?

I don't judge my results on how many calories I burned during a workout -- I don't really care how many calories I burned during a workout.

I judge my results on how much weight and percentage of fat I've eliminated, how I feel, and how I fit in my clothes. For me, the difference when I switched to Tortoise was super-speedy and effective. I add in Rabbit sometimes, too, for sports fitness.

[PTJohn]

Re: Cardio and intensity

All forms of cardio are valuable and necessary in the course of losing weight and obtaining better health. TimG correctly stated that it takes time to build up your overall conditioning, so, if going up one floor using the staircase skyrockets your heart rate, you're probably not ready to hit up that spinning class and should focus on forms of lower intensity cardio to build up your conditioning.

Again, as I first stated, all forms of cardio have their place in a weight loss program. Why? Because intense cardio sessions, like weight training, require some degree of rest in between sessions for adequate recovery. If you do not, you will most likely suffer some form of light overuse injury, such as aches in the knees, or strains in various lower body muscles.

So, what does this mean? Find a cardio machine that kicks your a#@. I recommend to all my clients that they use the StepMill (the revolving staircase which simulates going up stairs. However, because its a hard machine, it must be rotated in with other machines that are easier on the body. Machines that are typically easier are the Ellipticals and bikes (however, if you really crank up the resistance you can make them hard).

Then, simply rotate your cardio days. One day do a really hard cardio workout, the next day ease up a little bit and choose a form of cardio that's easier on your body. The easier days you might want to bring up the overall time to make up for the lower intensity. You'll find that this is what your intuition was probably telling you, but, sometimes you need to hear it from someone else.

[TimG]

Hi Angela

I am not saying that "tortoise" is ineffective. Lots of people (like you for example) will report weight loss, and "better clothes fit" using exactly that approach. Many people report results doing the opposite of the tortoise approach.

But you are right... In my comparison of two workouts, I should have asked "what is the most efficient?" rather than "what is the most effective?". Thanks for making me think about that important difference!

In the end though, it doesn't matter what works for you, or what works for me - we are here because we care what works for Erin.

As I said. . . . Training programs need to be tailored to the individual, so it's not right to say "intervals are better" - it depends on who you are talking about and what stage they are at.

That's why people offering Erin advice based on what worked for them is of very limited value.

Cheers,
Tim

[Erin Pavlina]

I calculated my max heart rate using this formula: 220 - age x .7

For me, the answer is 126.

I do the elliptical machine for 30 minutes, at least 20 of that spent at high intensity, max heart rate. The rest is warm up and cool down. I have a heart monitor strapped to my chest for accuracy.

There are step mills at the gym. I've been afraid to try them actually. Walking up the one flight of stairs to get to my elliptical machine puts my heart rate at 130! I figure if I get onto that step mill I''ll be able to go for what, 3 minutes, before I can't go any longer. If that turns out the be the case, is there any point of going on it?

[TimG]

Hi Erin, your heart rate monitor will be pretty accurate, but the formula you are using for max HR and for the target zone are not accurate. I could go into the reasons if you like but it gets technical.

But anyway, heart rate is not the main game yet!

My first advice would be to look at both angles in your overall program: food and exercise.

To lose weight you need to expend more calories than you consume, that is: "create a caloric deficit".

Sounds like you are trying to find the right number of calories to consume each day and a % of protein, carbs and fats that works for you. I would then work out various menus that fit that profile, so that you don't have to count every meal. You only count each new menu item that you add - when you add it. Then you know the total for everything you eat without counting. It's a lot less hassle but the downside is less variety. Also works well with calorie king.

Next you need to estimate how many calories you expend each day from everything apart from exercise. Your body burns calories just while doing nothing, while digesting food etc.

Finally you can work out how much of a caloric deficit you need to create to lose the desired weight (fat) in the desired time frame (assuming those goals are realistic).

For all the above, I would consult a professional who can give you safe, achievable, sustainable and personalised numbers.

At last, we come to the training part...

You need to go to the gym armed with a goal of how many calories you need to burn (the above numbers give you this answer). Then how you burn those calories is up to you.

Long, low intensity sessions are fine if you have the time and inclination. Just keep going at comfortable level until you reach your target number of calories.

If you don't have the time then higher intensity work is in order, but you have to work your way up to it, and there are many options for doing that too. This is where tools like heart rate monitors and perceived exertion ratings become really useful. I can tell you more about that if you like.

Finally, you monitor this whole thing for a month or so, and make small adjustments where necessary based on results. If you didn't lose the desired weight, but ate according to plan, then up the exercise a little and monitor again. Keep adjusting until the results come - and they will !

That's the theory. Still room for self experimenting along the way!

I hope this helps in some way.

[Creative]

Well done on your weight loss, I am so happy for you! I don't count calories but I have gotten into the habit of writing a food diary. I found it fascinating in understanding how foods make me feel. I lust after fruits such as berries like most women do after chocolate. I think I am hooked on antioxidents and I love it!

The diary has helped me make sure I eat enough too, I don't want to become underweight again. A quick update on my health: I have got some kettlebells and am enjoying the weight training. Now I am a shape I am happy with I want to become more toned. I am doing Yoga on my days off from the kettlebells. I love getting fit

[TimG]

hi Erin, i am somehow drawn to your weight loss efforts, and I spent a few hours tonight going through all of your blog updates and reading all the replies to them in the forums. I can see you are absolutely flooded with different opinions and advice, many of them leading you up a cul-de-sac to be honest.

I asked myself how can I help you? I could keep posting but feel I will just be adding to your confusion. So I decided the best I can do is direct you to some information from authoritative sources. Hopefully that gets you on a proven path in general, and then I would be happy to help you with the specifics.

best of luck,
Tim

First, I suggest this general weight management article from the American College of Sports Medicine. It's all good info, but in particular read the feature article (toward the end of the document) titled: "Caloric Expenditure: Losing Weight by Increasing the Daily Caloric Deficit"

Also, this article from an organisation that accredits/certifies personal fitness trainers in the USA.

[PTJohn]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

There are step mills at the gym. I've been afraid to try them actually. Walking up the one flight of stairs to get to my elliptical machine puts my heart rate at 130! I figure if I get onto that step mill I''ll be able to go for what, 3 minutes, before I can't go any longer. If that turns out the be the case, is there any point of going on it?

Sure, in your case, go for 3 minutes, then move to a relatively easier machine to complete an intense cardio workout. The next time you go, try for 4 minutes. Each time you get on there, simply add a minute. You'll be amazed how quickly your conditioning improves.

[Angela]

That's why people offering Erin advice based on what worked for them is of very limited value.

TimG, this is a forum where people talk about what works for them, so I'd like to invite you to not be surprised by* posts where people offer up what has worked for them and say things like, "maybe you'd like to try this, too." Your authoritative links are great, too, and you're right that it's great to focus on helping others.


*or invalidate

[TimG]

Angela, I understand this forum and it's nature, and I don't question people's right to post whatever they like as that's what is invited. However, it *is* contributing to Erin's limited results on the scales. She has "too many clocks and doesn't know the time".

i have another thought to add to this...

truth: there is a "universal principle" for weight loss - caloric deficit.
power: is knowledge in this case. knowledge about diet and exercise, and what methods are appropriate for an individual.
love: there are plenty of people wanting to help

We know what one must do to make intelligent choices.

If anyone would like to contact me with questions my email address is mail@timgraham.net

[Angela]

Originally Posted by TimG

Angela, I understand this forum and it's nature, and I don't question people's right to post whatever they like as that's what is invited. However, it *is* contributing to Erin's limited results on the scales. She has "too many clocks and doesn't know the time".

So does everyone else around here. She (we) can handle it, don't worry. That's part of the fun of sifting through our individual subjective experiences -- even if somebody is arrogant enough to declare that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

[lacinato]

Good point, Angela. Some people go crazy with intensity. I should say, I only do it 1-2x/wk (when I'm super busy, none/wk--but then I don't feel as good). I only do exercise I want to do, so I do tortoise stuff daily (as part of my routine) and strength training and hard cardio as I feel the need. Switching it up makes it enjoyable. I never ever follow a program.

I feel best when I do hard cardio 2 or 3 times a week PLUS all that other stuff, but can't because I have a misalignment--I'll bust a knee or ankle if I do too much. I'm working on it, slowly.

There are lots of different ways of doing things, so I think it's nice to see all these different examples. I don't actually exercise for weight loss at all, just health maintenance. It's too depressing to think of it in terms of calories for me! I think in terms of my sanity, or ability to do something (like a pull-up!).

[Angela]

Originally Posted by lacinato

It's too depressing to think of it in terms of calories for me! I think in terms of my sanity, or ability to do something (like a pull-up!).

I'm with you... obsessing (or even really thinking at all) about calories is something I have done and not gotten results with. I suspect mostly that's because when I'm thinking about calories, I'm thinking about *getting away from* fat or being heavy and of course..... you get more of what you focus on. Plus there's just nothing fun for me about a caloric approach -- maybe it's more interesting for math majors.

I had to retrain my brain to let go of kcal thinking -- I saw that I was burning fewer calories DURING my Tortoise workouts, so I got all frog-in-a-blender (and forgot, for a time, that I was playing a game), and I suspect that stress helps me HOLD weight -- padding against possible pain, maybe. It wasn't so easy, because there's so much focus on calories in traditional weight loss approaches -- it seems to be, as TimG called it, a "universal truth" that the weight loss industry focuses on.

And it may indeed be true! It doesn't make sense to me to eat a high calorie diet. It's just that I've shifted my perspective on my choices from looking at how many calories are involved in a food or activity (weight/fat focus) to how much benefit it provides for me. I've gone from an "away from" motivation to a "towards" motivation in the area of fitness, sports, and vitality. It feels better.

And I noticed that as I got more and more Tortoisesque in my approach, the hotter I burned -- I mean literally, I felt warmer, I had more clean energy throughout my day, and incidentally, I seemed to be burning through more calories (d'oh! don't think about that! ) because I was suddenly ravenously hungry -- and I was suddenly craving cleaner food -- than when I was doing the Rabbit.

And a really nice thing: my foot, calf, and knee pain has disappeared. I think that pain and stress on the body might be something of a concern on Erin's part, and also I think she might be like me in that she likes to push herself -- to really go for it, intensity-wise -- when that might not be the most vital choice for our particular bodies.