Why is suicide scorned in the lightworker community?

[ballhit2]

Almost everything I've read describing suicide from the New-Agey crowd plops it into a category such as:

A. unwilling or unable of fulfilling one's life purpose
B. desire to be as willful as a Creator-Source-It-Whatever

My question is why are these views presented seemingly with "Authority" ? I could certainly imagine a highly-evolved segment of Self wishing to distance Her/his self from Light to learn something. Or with Pavlinian prose, a level 200 character needing to drop down to Numero Uno to re-learn an essential lesson. (AM I REAL?) Not to mention the togetherness and growth often felt by those who are in the self-taker's circle.

Is it because they're sometimes messy and/or inconvenient? You can't tithe or pay taxes when you're dead afterall.

Please, help me understand why this act is universally shunned!

[Bliss Sage]

New Age is a religion just like any other, and all religions have their dogma. If you look at religions, you'll find most of them disapprove of or frown upon same things, including suicide.

Edit: After reading Erin's response, I realized I had no experience of the New Age take on suicide, but I had kind of lumped New Age and PD into the same pile, and what I wrote, in my mind, relates to PD people's take on suicide (which has been very harsh by PD forum posters here), not New Age. This website seems to fuse PD and New Age together and attracts people from each group. As a result, I have begun associating one to the other and mixing them up, but they're actually different, even though many followers of one overlap into the other.

[Erin Pavlina]

I can't speak for everyone in the lightworker community but from what I understand I will try to answer your query.

First, scorned is a harsh word. I would say rather there is great compassion bestowed upon someone who chooses to end their life out of despair, desperation, or fear, or whatever other reason they choose to go.

I've seen what suicide does to people on the other side. In some cases, there is no problem whatsoever, and the deceased person crosses over and reunites with the light. In other cases, because of the shame and guilt associated with their final act these souls fear crossing over and try to avoid the judgment they fear is coming. They end up wallowing in a dark place for sometimes a long time.

Suicide is a choice and every one of us has the right to make it, without judgment. All we, in the lightworker community, want people to know is that suicide does not relieve you of your burdens. In some cases it can just make things harder. So we try to help people avoid suicide when we can, because we can see that they are just making it harder on themselves. Better to stay where you are and seek help then to throw it all away and have to start over.

[Susanna77]

This theme seems to be coming up a lot.

Perhaps the consequences of suicide in the afterlife depend on the circumstances of the suicide. For example, PERHAPS (I don't claim to know or have a set belief system), if someone is terminally ill, lost all their loved ones, is alone in life, etc, they can take that step without feeling guilty when they cross over.

But there might be people who have everything, people who love them, health, but for some reason see no meaning to life and when something goes wrong in some area of their lives they rush out. And rushing out may mean that you don't take time to consider the gap you're leaving in other people's lives, the opportunities you might have missed, the people you'd have met, the places you'd have got to see, etc...

[Erin Pavlina]

Yes there is a big difference between the 97 year old terminally ill and suffering individual who has lived a full life and the 25 year old guy who kills his family and then kills himself.

[Hyperchiller]

If you suicide because life gets too hard, then maybe you didn't listen to your intuition enough

But seriously, if you suicide because of hardship, that means you are learning some life lessons. If you fail to do so, you will return back to the same situation in consecutive reincarnations.

All in all, you keep coming back until you get a 'pass' in the subject 'Life on Earth'. You transcend Earth when you get 100% on the test.

[sirkinm]

A lot of suicides are due to severe mental illness, such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder (which can look very similar to schizophrenia when it's severe, with hallucinations and extreme paranoia). This was the case with a family member of mine, who did not have access to rational thought or intution at the time.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, because most people typically think of the guy who lost his job, the depressed teen, etc.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I would have to say that it's only scorned because people don't understand why you did it or want to do it. It leaves your family in ruins because of the trauma of seeing their son or daughter's dead body hanging from the ceiling fan. I would say on some level it's a selfish act, but personally I don't have any problems with people committing suicide. It's your life and your choice. I would just suggest that you don't leave children behind because that is just awful.

[Jaded Soul]

I don't entirely agree with the idea that suicide is selfish. I understand how people say suicide is selfish because the person does not care about those left behind. But really, do people have an obligation to live solely for the sake of making others feel better? And isn't it more selfish to expect someone to continue to endure an existence they find intolerable simply to allow you to feel better and avoid grief without necessarily helping them to overcome their problems?

Most people are not that selfless that they can live solely for the sake of others with not even happiness or peace of mind for themselves. The only exception is that I feel if someone has young children or others who depend on them, you have an obligation to stick around and don't really have the right to check out.

I have a sister who has been in a bad way due to a lot of the trauma in our family, and I have no doubt she has probably considered suicide on occasions. Although I don't think she would do it, as she confides in a healer I know who would counsel her against it. But if someone close to me decided to commit suicide, I certainly wouldn't blame them. I would feel bad that I couldn't do more to help them. But I wouldn't expect them to stick around merely for my sake. Indeed, if someone feels that awful that they would rather not be here the last thing they need is an extra dose of guilt and shame and 'how can you do this to me!' emotional confrontation. The only loving response is to allow them to rest in peace and understand that they must have suffered deeply to bring them to that point.

I am not advocating suicide as the best solution. I am merely noting that there is far too much judgment, and you can't really judge another's decision unless you walk a mile in their shoes or would be happy to trade places with them.

[Colleenmek]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Suicide is a choice and every one of us has the right to make it, without judgment.

I humbly disagree. Suicide is often the end result of mental illness. Mental illness is as real as cancer, both devastating diseases that many times end in death.
Just my 2 cents..

[jay78]

I personally think there is absolutely nothing wrong with suicide.

How lame are people who need to judge others who do commit suicide or are thinking about it just to give themselves a boy scout badge?? Ok, you haven't put a gun to your head and pulled the trigger, guess what - in my eyes you're no better than someone who has. Sorry, I won't put you on a pedestal for not flinging yourself off a cliff.

And no one knows anything about the suicide thing for sure. You don't know if in the grand scheme of things some people are meant to go on a suicide mission. Maybe there's some gag order on the other side that prevents you from knowing EVERYTHING there is to know about everything because it would just defeat the purpose of whatever it is we are here for. Interesting side note - a lot of psychics have contacted plenty of spirits who opted for suicide and are perfectly fine on the other side. It's almost like as a society we feel uncomfortable that someone can just kill themselves and go to heaven. No, first you're supposed to learn lessons...guess what, millions of kids and babies die everyday and there is no way they came here to Earth to pass any kid of test. Their purpose has something more to do with others rather than themselves. Maybe, just maybe, suicide falls somewhere along that same concept.

Bah. Judgemental people S.U.C.K.

[spirit4711]

Suicide often has a lot of impact on the people left behind. Part of it is the suddenness. One moment the person is still with us, the next (s)he's gone forever. No more contact. So: guilt, anger, sadness, (self)blaming, incompletion etc. Hence the judgments.

We tend to forget the slow forms of suicide: drinking / drugging / smoking / working oneself to death. That happens a lot more I guess than the sudden suicides but isn't frowned upon so much.

'Walk a mile in their shoes first' seems very sound to me.

[Jaded Soul]

That is a good point Spirit. If a person drinks heavily, smokes, misuses drugs, is overweight etc. they are killing themselves. It is just that they are choosing a slower method than a gun or a fatal overdose. And yet there is not the same judgment as suicide.

I believe that in one of the Conversations with God books, God actually makes the point that it is socially acceptable to facilitate death so long as you choose a slow death. Hence it is illegal for doctors to facilitate euthenasia, but legal to sell cigarettes.

God makes the point that this is another example of society having everything upside down. Surely it is more humane to facilitate a swift death than to facilitate a long, drawn out painful demise.

I also agree that you cannot judge others unless you have walked a mile in their shoes. Unless you understand the suffering of others or would be willing to trade places with them, you cannot really condemn the decision of another.

[SarahLuvzYu]

Originally Posted by Colleenmek

I humbly disagree. Suicide is often the end result of mental illness. Mental illness is as real as cancer, both devastating diseases that many times end in death.
Just my 2 cents..

I agree with this. Mental illness is as real as any physical disease. Someone killing themselves due to mental illness is as real as someone dying from cancer. It's not a choice. If you've ever lost your sanity, even for a minute you'll know what I'm talking about.

[Curtis2011]

I have nothing against suicide.

Although, every action's consequences has to do with the intention behind the act. And suicide seems to be a very selfish, fearful act.

If one was courageous, he would face life, rather than run from it.

[blossom]

I used to think this way too. Until you have experienced much pain and suffering, you cannot understand a persons desire to escape that. It's usually about escaping pain more than it is about escaping life...and it's usually so all-consuming that they can think of nothing else and do not think straight about the effect it has on family. Sometimes friends and family can unwittingly drive a person to feel so much pressure and pain that they cannot see any other option.

btw, in Hungary it is socially acceptable and considered a perfectly valid option to commit suicide if your problems are too great. They have a very high rate of suicide, but they don't consider it to be a problem. Just an interesting tidbit.

[blossom]

I agree with this point of view, and often the parents and family members will drive these people to do what they do due to putting so much pressure on them to be perfect little mirror images of them, and satisfy their own narcisisstic needs, that they aren't even thinking about the child...and then they wonder why their child did it! As someone who has had this emotional whammy put on me by my parents, who think everything is about them, and that THEY want me here, so therefore I must stay here for their happiness, I know how this feels and it can make the situation even worse.

Parents need to start waking up to the fact that their kids aren't just there to satisfy THEIR selfish needs, and there are some enlightened people who realise this, but not enough.They are individuals who deserve to be listened to and treated with respect and UNconditional love, which everyone claims that they do give this, and yet so many people are running around trying desperately to please their parents, living false lives and becoming "somebody" to make them proud, when their parents should be proud of the people they are already...often to no avail, as they can never be truly satisfied due to their own issues.

I'm not trying to blame the parents...I know they are just human...but this really needs to be addressed in my oppinion.

I have been through clinical depression, and I KNOW the effect of my parents lack of approval and acceptance and dysfunction had on me...so I understand how it can get for a person who sees no other way out!

Originally Posted by Jaded Soul

I don't entirely agree with the idea that suicide is selfish. I understand how people say suicide is selfish because the person does not care about those left behind. But really, do people have an obligation to live solely for the sake of making others feel better? And isn't it more selfish to expect someone to continue to endure an existence they find intolerable simply to allow you to feel better and avoid grief without necessarily helping them to overcome their problems?

Most people are not that selfless that they can live solely for the sake of others with not even happiness or peace of mind for themselves. The only exception is that I feel if someone has young children or others who depend on them, you have an obligation to stick around and don't really have the right to check out.

I have a sister who has been in a bad way due to a lot of the trauma in our family, and I have no doubt she has probably considered suicide on occasions. Although I don't think she would do it, as she confides in a healer I know who would counsel her against it. But if someone close to me decided to commit suicide, I certainly wouldn't blame them. I would feel bad that I couldn't do more to help them. But I wouldn't expect them to stick around merely for my sake. Indeed, if someone feels that awful that they would rather not be here the last thing they need is an extra dose of guilt and shame and 'how can you do this to me!' emotional confrontation. The only loving response is to allow them to rest in peace and understand that they must have suffered deeply to bring them to that point.

I am not advocating suicide as the best solution. I am merely noting that there is far too much judgment, and you can't really judge another's decision unless you walk a mile in their shoes or would be happy to trade places with them.

[davidchung]

To me suicide seems like sinking your own boat so you don't have to worry about dealing with the storm.

You see the storm and think, "Well there's no way I'm making it out of this one alive, might as well end it right now and save myself the trouble."

But the conscious mind is often unable to conceive of the millions of possibilities that are out there in the Universe.

How do you know the storm isn't going to blow you so far off course that you end up somewhere even better than you had originally planned?

Maybe you'll end up on the bottom of the sea and get adopted by mermaids and be the first human ambassador between the underwater folk and the land lubbers?

If you play a computer game and it starts getting really tough, do you just turn off the computer? Kind of defeats the point of playing the game in the first place.

[The Unconquered]

Gosh, where do I start?

I've seen this tragedy from several angles:

• As a suicide attempt thriver -- not just a survivor! (13-year anniversary next month)
• As an acquaintance of someone who knew something was wrong, but didn't know how wrong until too late (this has happened twice)
• As a support group member of suicide victims, and I knew what would happen but could legally do nothing (this happened twice -- I left that particular group; it was worthless)
• As a friend who called 911 when a pal described a suicide plan (oddly enough, this has also happened twice)

So from my experience, I really like this explanation of why suicide occurs:

"Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain."

(from Suicide: Read This First)

It's not perfect, but it's the best I've seen so far. The problem I have is with "not chosen". I would probably rephrase it in a way that indicates that it seems like the reasonable way out in a hellish situation from the sufferer's point of view, but in too many cases is actually not from an outsider's point of view. It is chosen -- most of the time it's not well-chosen. However, talking to a suicidal person is similar to hiking up a mountain of eggshells. Wording is incredibly important here, and there is a strong impetus to not blame the suicidal person; the person is doing enough of that himself/herself.

But there is a very cool thing about surviving an attempt, even a half-hearted one like mine was when I was a young teenager. It's actually quite empowering. When I realized the gravity of what I nearly did, I swore to myself to never get that far into the depths of hell again, that I would seek help long before that point. That's precisely what I did when I first had the opportunity. In other words, I not only realized I could choose to die; I could also choose to live. Now, I do.

[blossom]

That was really well said Unq.

I have never actually attempted...but I have definately been in that place where I understood why people do it...and have had times when I didn't want to be here. But I think severe pain is a great motivator for change...so it all comes down to choice in the end.

Originally Posted by The Unconquered

Gosh, where do I start?

I've seen this tragedy from several angles:

• As a suicide attempt thriver -- not just a survivor! (13-year anniversary next month)
• As an acquaintance of someone who knew something was wrong, but didn't know how wrong until too late (this has happened twice)
• As a support group member of suicide victims, and I knew what would happen but could legally do nothing (this happened twice -- I left that particular group; it was worthless)
• As a friend who called 911 when a pal described a suicide plan (oddly enough, this has also happened twice)

So from my experience, I really like this explanation of why suicide occurs:

"Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain."

(from Suicide: Read This First)

It's not perfect, but it's the best I've seen so far. The problem I have is with "not chosen". I would probably rephrase it in a way that indicates that it seems like the reasonable way out in a hellish situation from the sufferer's point of view, but in too many cases is actually not from an outsider's point of view. It is chosen -- most of the time it's not well-chosen. However, talking to a suicidal person is similar to hiking up a mountain of eggshells. Wording is incredibly important here, and there is a strong impetus to not blame the suicidal person; the person is doing enough of that himself/herself.

But there is a very cool thing about surviving an attempt, even a half-hearted one like mine was when I was a young teenager. It's actually quite empowering. When I realized the gravity of what I nearly did, I swore to myself to never get that far into the depths of hell again, that I would seek help long before that point. That's precisely what I did when I first had the opportunity. In other words, I not only realized I could choose to die; I could also choose to live. Now, I do.

[Cado]

I'm not a lightworker but I'll tell you this: suicide isn't an escape. You caused whatever torments you. It's a hard truth, one you don't want to state so bluntly around those who are suffering, but it's inescapable. I never followed through on my suicidal urges because I felt I'd carry my issues with me and I'd have to deal with them later. I imagine lightworkers try to prevent suicides on that basis.

[The Unconquered]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

I'm not a lightworker but I'll tell you this: suicide isn't an escape. You caused whatever torments you. It's a hard truth, one you don't want to state so bluntly around those who are suffering, but it's inescapable. I never followed through on my suicidal urges because I felt I'd carry my issues with me and I'd have to deal with them later. I imagine lightworkers try to prevent suicides on that basis.

That's a brilliant thing to say (or even just think) around victims of sexual abuse and war veterarns.

[blossom]

Originally Posted by The Unconquered

That's a brilliant thing to say (or even just think) around victims of sexual abuse and war veterarns.

Gotta say, I was a bit stumped myself that you would say this Cado.

There is a difference between a person playing the victim, and BEING a genuine victim. Stuff happens to people, horrible things...and it isn't always their fault. Sure they may have made a bad decision that placed them in a situation where the outcome was all bad, that doesn't mean it was their fault that they were forced to endure the suffering both at the time, and in the aftermath.

[royster]

Originally Posted by The Unconquered

That's a brilliant thing to say (or even just think) around victims of sexual abuse and war veterarns.

I agree with Illustro Cado; sometimes tough insight can be difficult to grasp, but we do manifest our own life experiences. While we may all sympathize with those victims, we have no real way of knowing those experiences were or were not chosen or prescribed for the sojourner. The most terrible experiences of my own life, once the event was well passed, have forged my understanding greatly, and given me empathy to others. As well, I subscribe to pre-life agreements; it most likely was determined as an event to occur before the person embodied. (We DO choose our parents, many agree, and other significant life experiences). We, here in the physical world, subjected to norm-setting of "what is right and wrong" see the victims in another light, making vast assumptions without knowing many of the facts.

As Lightworkers have volunteered to incarnate into specific time-streams, to address specific problems, so do others seek experiences that give them knowledge for the duration of eternity. An inexperienced soul is more likely to make long-term horrible mistakes than one ugly event, like rape. War veterans' experiences could well be the initiation of new Lightworkers who clearly see why peaceful coexistance is necessary. How else would you KNOW, unless it is etched in your psyche?

[The Unconquered]

Originally Posted by royster

I agree with Illustro Cado; sometimes tough insight can be difficult to grasp, but we do manifest our own life experiences.

I didn't say I disagreed with it. I understand it. But think about this fictional scenario:

Rape victim: OMG, I don't know what to DO!!?!?!
Me: You know you manifested that life experience, right?
Rape victim: *takes gun and blows head off*

I'm sorry, I was drinking water when I typed that last bit, and I LOL'd so hard my screen was wet from the spray.

Seriously, the last thing you should do around a rape victim or a war veteran is to tell them what Illustro Cado said.

[st33med]

I have thought about suicide before, and this is why I don't feel it a reasonable choice:

Life still has something nice to offer. Why would I end it now before those spectacular surprises come along? These problems that I have aren't going to kill me, I am choosing them to be bigger problems and it is no problem if I don't see it as such.

[Mynder]

Often enough, suicidal people believe that nobody cares about them (or not enough to listen/understand/notice that something is at all wrong with them).

Sometimes, they're even right. Giving them some attention, and offering genuine interest and stating that, however shortly you know them, you care - can already have great effect. If it's genuine.

Sure, there are many reasons for wanting to end one's life, and war veterans, particularly, may simply look for a way to end the pain and the nightmares, but connecting...letting them feel that they are NOT alone...is one of the best ways I have found to get them out of the box that has grown so small for them.

About the original topic of why suicide is scorned...I do not scorn suicides. Depending on the circumstances, I will probably feel sadness for one who succumbed to the challenges of life. I know that even victims of rape and family violence can rebound from a place of darkness, find light/love/happiness, and experience much joy in the future. Of course, in that moment, all this seems impossible and endlessly remote. I also agree with the "if I didn't learn the lesson this life, I'm only going to get back here and live through it all over again", in many cases (not all, though).

Lastly, some cases are really medical cases, with depressions caused by chemical imbalances in the brain...and if this isn't diagnosed and treated properly, can lead to suicide. In these cases, the person in question isn't even completely in control of his or her life, and perception distorted even more than with "normal" suicidal people. Scorn them? I have no right to judge any of them.

[blossom]

I guess in all fairness, he did say that it was not something you would be so blunt about in the prescence of someone who has endured these scenarios and worse.

Originally Posted by The Unconquered

I didn't say I disagreed with it. I understand it. But think about this fictional scenario:



I'm sorry, I was drinking water when I typed that last bit, and I LOL'd so hard my screen was wet from the spray.

Seriously, the last thing you should do around a rape victim or a war veteran is to tell them what Illustro Cado said.

[falnangl4u]

I have been watching this thread for a bit, thought of it much, and I feel it is time now that I can give my opinion as a daughter of a suicide victim mother who was also my very best friend and not but 3 + months ago. But I think that at this time I am now finally able to give my hopefully (trying to be) unbiased but rather knowledgeable opinion on the subject.

I know personally how much this can hurt the loved ones left behind for positive! But I have to say that I really knew what her life had became and the lack of also. We had talked of it several previous times. The pain both emotional and with a drastic physical constant pain, the loneliness, the lack of purpose in life, the desperation and knowledge of no "fixing it" possible. I miss her horribly, but I understand her and also forgive her completely...

I understand that there might be different circumstances for the reasons, and to each their own as each person is individual and unique. But I do think that "Spirit / God / Whatever you want to call it" would know those circumstances and understand. I believe "Judgment" is even more than basically within ourselves. Some may be of quite selfish reasons, and some for as my Mother for reasons of endurance and mental and physical tiredness, but all are at the end of the rope in one way or another.

I did go through the " How Selfish, Self-Centered, I'm Mad at You, How Could You Do This To Me?" thoughts, but when I calmed down just a bit and stopped feeling quite so sorry for myself and my own personal loss, and thought more of the truth of what had just happened, I realized that wasn't the case at all. She just actually had gotten to the point that life was so painful and miserable for her and that the odds were against her and life itself to the point of no return. I felt comfort and peace for her but with a bit of guilt also within her spirit that she had left behind for me and our families grief and suffering. But the bad feelings, the loss, the torment were "My Feelings" and "My Thoughts", and "My Losses" within myself the most of all.

I believe in my heart that this has made things harder than normal on me and also on my mother in her afterlife because of guilt and inadequacy feelings. Things left unsaid or undone, and many other thoughts and feelings which were a result of this action. But Here and in the hereafter I suppose we will learn to deal with these feelings.

All in all I do not think that there is a "Blame" to be put upon anyone or any "judgment" as we are not responsible, capable, nor have any right to even try to do that to anyone who has made this decision of their life. All we can do is accept...

I don't know that I am right, nor do I know I am wrong. I only know what I feel and I have tried to express this with the best words I can muster. I think my entire outlook on the situation which I have experienced is as my Mama taught me "Don't Judge Until You Have Walked In Their Shoes"...

[royster]

Having attempted suicide, and dealt with it, I can say with certainty, across the board:

You don't want to jump OFF the bridge,
You want to get across.