Can you spare a dime? (Blog)

[Erin Pavlina]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Erin Pavlina's blog:

Can you spare a dime?

[joelyle]

good morning,

I would expect a similar response if you/Steve appeared to very ill. Very likely: if one is poorly dressed/unclean: the assumption will be that the person is drunk. I would expect a high level of support when nicely dressed. I "turned the tables" on what I believed to be a panhandler and he became very upset. (asked him for money before he had a chance to ask me).

I am not sure if it is urban legend: I heard of people make a nice living as well dressed panhandlers.

regards,
Joe

[Jill]

Very interesting and a timely post for me.

As someone who's never cared what people think of me, and one who is totally not into clothes, makeup, or how I look in general, I've been hearing this sort of thing more and more and starting to realize that maybe those things do indeed make a difference.

My feelings in the past have always been if people can't accept me for who I am and see past the clothes, etc., then screw 'em. But as a business owner, and speaker at conferences these days, I meet a lot of people and really do need to leave the right impression. I haven't been dumb enough to speak at a conference in my jeans or whatever, but I certainly don't have the latest fashions.

In talking with others on this topic (and suprisingly with my 19 year old daughter who is the blacksheep in the family because she loves clothes and shopping ) I am starting to come around to realize that impressions do count, especially in business. My daughter told me how she realized this in 8th grade (yeah I'm slow), that the way you look simply makes you approachable or not and she didn't like being "non-approachable." As a painfully shy kid growing up, I have always been happy to be non-approachable because I didn't want people to talk to me, which is probably where a lot of this stems from.

On a similar note, a friend of mine was telling me how every time she's on an airplane the people sitting next to her always talk to her, no matter how much she puts her head down, her ipod in her ears, or whatever. Yet for me, I rarely get people talking to me on airplanes (yay!) and I don't even try. It seems to be a vibe or something, as well as the clothes and stuff (my friend doesn't dress fancy or anything, but knows how to put it all together).

Meanwhile, I am going to try to look a bit more "normal" these days, at least in terms of business settings!

My 2 cents for what it's worth!

[TheColonel]

Great article, Erin.

I'd love to see the results if you changed the gender of the beggar. Are people more sympathetic towards one gender?

[tracyrtwyman]

Originally Posted by Jill

As someone who's never cared what people think of me, and one who is totally not into clothes, makeup, or how I look in general, I've been hearing this sort of thing more and more and starting to realize that maybe those things do indeed make a difference.

My feelings in the past have always been if people can't accept me for who I am and see past the clothes, etc., then screw 'em. But as a business owner, and speaker at conferences these days, I meet a lot of people and really do need to leave the right impression. I haven't been dumb enough to speak at a conference in my jeans or whatever, but I certainly don't have the latest fashions.

Watch the TLC program "What Not to Wear." They teach these lessons to people will similar problems every week.

I think it is really unfortunate that in our society, it is so easy for a man to dress himself and keep himself properly, but so difficult for a woman to do so. Acceptable norms are very simple for men - wear a suit for business, and jeans and a t-shirt when being casual. And these norms don't change throughout the life-cycle. But women have a wide variety of clothing styles to chose from, and determining what's appropriate is a very elusive skill. Not only does it change over time with fashion trends, but also with the age of the individual woman, and with body type.

Personally, I am usually at a loss when I go into a store to try to buy clothes for myself. So many women's clothes just seem hideous to me, and I can't believe that they are currently fashionable. They also don't fit properly. And they're terribly impracticle and inconvenient. Rarely do they have pockets (except fake ones), and even if they do you're not supposed to acutally use them (or it will create an obscene-looking bulge on your body). Buttons, belts and seams on women's clothes always break easily. The shoes are not made to be walked in. The jackets and coats don't actually provide warmth or coverage. Dresses and skirts require you to be constantly adjusting yourself in your seat to avoid flashing your underwear at people. And the underwear often becomes "innerwear" as it creeps up while you walk. Even panties are not made for practical use.

In addition to the impossible clothes you're supposed to wear as a woman, you're supposed to keep your face perfectly painted all day long with sticky putty, creating the illustion that the skin on your face is consistently toned, your eyelashes are dark and long, your cheeks are rosy and your lips are deep red. Just don't ever touch your face, or eat or drink anything all day, or you'll mess it up. And don't forget the hair, the jewelry, and the fingernails.

Someone told me that women's clothes are so ridiculous and ugly because all the designers are gay men. I'm sure not all clothing designers are gay men, but I know that many, if not most are indeed, so there may be some truth to this. Not only can they not relate to the realities of being a woman, but they also may not have an instinct for what makes a woman look attractive. In addition, the models that they use to try their designs on are not shaped like the average woman, and they only wear them while sitting or standing still for photographs. They don't test them on women with normal body types doing the things people normally do on a daily basis. They decorate a woman the same way they would decorate a house. They don't see the women who buy their clothes as living beings that need to be able to move about and carry things with them.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Jill, I kind of relate to the story you're telling. While I don't completely slack on the fashion and grooming side, I'm not one to put hair gel in my hair or wear Armani suits. I don't shave as often as I should and certainly am somewhat introverted. But I'm a good person, but people will often stray away from me because I do not dress like the guys in the American Eagle catalog. I said the same thing, "If people are going to judge me by the clothes I wear or the freuency I shave, then they're too superficial." It's not like I totally let myself go, but I just don't find wasting all the time getting ready prevalent. I'll spend five to ten minutes a day tops. Life is too short to care what other people think anyway. I'm a freelance philosopher anyway, a writer, so appearances don't really matter so much.

[Cron]

I go out leafleting a lot in my city by the metro, where there also a lot of panhandlers. One night there was one standing besides me asking for the 37 cents he was short in order to get a sandwhich.

He was annoying a lot of people and diverting them from me and what I was trying to do.

I offered to give him the 37 cents if he would go away. He refused.

About 15 min later he showed me a wad of bills in his pocket..about $40....he was trying to make $50 ( he wasn't quite right in the head, I think he was intoxicated ).

My father has volunteered in homeless shelters for decades. He told me that many of these people, while they lack basic necessities, go out and work some sort of scam....usually for alchohol.

He said if you feel guilty passing them by you should just get a bundle of cards from your local homeless shelter. When you pass one of these people you can give them the card and tell them they can go there to get something to eat.

The first time I did this I almost burst out laughing. Some guy asked me for some money.....for a sandwhich....claiming he was hungry. I gave him the card and he said "thanks" like he just bit into a bug.

If you do this, pass a donation to the shelter!

[Cron]

Originally Posted by Jill

As someone who's never cared what people think of me, and one who is totally not into clothes, makeup, or how I look in general, I've been hearing this sort of thing more and more and starting to realize that maybe those things do indeed make a difference.

Ditto.

You just have to notice how you react to people dressed in different ways. It works the same for others.

I've been lazy about improving my wardrobe, but I should get on it.

On a related note, I still run into a few women who don't shave their legs because of feminist beliefs. A few I got to know and I believe it was more about laziness, which I can respect having tried it myself.

Being someone who gives out leaflets I know people are more likely to listen to me if I look more like them.

It seems to me if someone is charged up doing things for women ( and there are many inequities left ) that they would be more effective putting their time into other activities than hanging on to old hippie era grooming fashions.

No offense to anyone. I had hair down past my shoulders in college.

[TheColonel]

Originally Posted by tracyrtwyman

Watch the TLC program "What Not to Wear." They teach these lessons to people will similar problems every week.

I think it is really unfortunate that in our society, it is so easy for a man to dress himself and keep himself properly, but so difficult for a woman to do so. Acceptable norms are very simple for men - wear a suit for business, and jeans and a t-shirt when being casual. And these norms don't change throughout the life-cycle. But women have a wide variety of clothing styles to chose from, and determining what's appropriate is a very elusive skill. Not only does it change over time with fashion trends, but also with the age of the individual woman, and with body type.

Personally, I am usually at a loss when I go into a store to try to buy clothes for myself. So many women's clothes just seem hideous to me, and I can't believe that they are currently fashionable. They also don't fit properly. And they're terrible impracticle and inconvenient. Rarely do they have pockets (except fake ones), and even if they do you're not supposed to acutally use them (or it will create an obscene-looking bulge on your body). Buttons, belts and seams on women's clothes always break easily. The shoes are not made to be walked in. The jackets and coats don't actually provide warmth or coverage. Dresses and skirts require you to be constantly adjusting yourself in your seat to avoid flashing your underwear at people. And the underwear often becomes "innerwear" as it creeps up while you walk. Even panties are not made for practical use.

In addition to the impossible clothes you're supposed to wear as a woman, you're supposed to keep your face perfectly painted all day long with sticky putty, creating the illustion that the skin on your face is consistently toned, your eyelashes are dark and long, your cheeks are rosy and your lips are deep red. Just don't ever touch your face, or eat or drink anything all day, or you'll mess it up. And don't forget the hair, the jewelry, and the fingernails.

Someone told me that women's clothes are so ridiculous and ugly because all the designers are gay men. I'm sure not all clothing designers are gay men, but I know that many, if not most are indeed, so there may be some truth to this. Not only can they not relate to the realities of being a woman, but they also may not have an instinct for what makes a woman look attractive. In addition, the models that they use to try their designs on are not shaped like the average woman, and they only wear them while sitting or standing still for photographs. They don't test them on women with normal body types doing the things people normally do on a daily basis. They decorate a woman the same way they would decorate a house. They don't see the women who buy their clothes as living beings that need to be able to move about and carry things with them.

I encourage to start a whole new thread about this. My wife is a terrible victim of this insanity. I hate her clothes and shoes. They physically turn me off. But they are 100% in line with current fashion. Yuck.

Me, on the other hand, I wear very conservative and traditional clothing, and I don't give a damn about what's in style. And you will never catch me using hair product. The last time a hapless barber rubbed gel into my hair, he forfeited his gratuity.

My wife resents my freedom from an obscene urge to buy all new clothes every year. And don't kid yourself - they try to manipulate men just as much as women.

[Jill]

tracyrtwyman, yep, that's exactly how I feel! It never made sense to me that women "had to" wear make up but men didn't. What's up with that? So I always refused to do it. To me if I wore it, I always thought I'd look like a clown!

Funny thing is my daughter (19) has very bad acne, so she's been wearing make up for years to cover it up. She learned how to do it so well that it really doesn't look like she's wearing make up. I let her put some on me this summer when I went to a friend's wedding. I have to admit, it wasn't bad. I haven't worn it since, but probably should at least at conferences and business meetings and stuff.

I think I'll slowly work my way into this stuff. Just a month ago I finally got a whole new hairstyle after 20 years, so I'm getting there.

But I'm NEVER EVER gonna wear high heels. Those suckers are just dangerous. (I trip in sneakers even!)

[Angela]

It's interesting how much more receptive to/generous with you are according to how a person is dressed. It makes sense -- if the person takes the time to clothe themselves with society's expectations in mind, then he's more likely to live up to your expectations of whether he's likely to be telling you the truth, more likely to spend your donation the way you hope, more likely not to be stark raving mad.

I'm not saying that's true, but it's how we thin-slice it in that quick moment.

I know I get upgraded at airports and concerts more easily when I'm spruced up. TheColonel -- I think your wife is making a big mistake in your relationship by not dressing more for your pleasure. Is it possible that she's doing this as a reaction to how you present yourself to her?

[TheColonel]

Originally Posted by Angela

up. TheColonel -- I think your wife is making a big mistake in your relationship by not dressing more for your pleasure. Is it possible that she's doing this as a reaction to how you present yourself to her?

Could be. Don't get me wrong. I'm clean cut, in shape and I dress well in expensive, conservative clothing. Don't take this wrong, but I catch glances from women ages 20-50 on a regular basis.

I think I present myself in an acceptable manner, and I spend a lot of time on my appearance. I just refuse to follow stupid arbitrary fashion trends.

From what I've noticed in many women I encounter, I hypothesize that - in general - women dress to impress each other...not men.

My wife probably cares more about what the other women she encounters think. This is not unusual, in my opinion.

If I were to say "wow those flat-toed 4inch high heeled boots look ridiculous with those flared highwaters," she would probably silently agree to herself. And she might even change them because I made her self-conscious.

But I won't be looking at her until that evening, and meanwhile, she'll be interacting with the fashion police.

So...whatever she's gotta wear to be comfortable is okay with me. As long as it comes off later on...

[Jill]

My wife probably cares more about what the other women she encounters think. This is not unusual, in my opinion.

Man, I hate that quick up/down look some women give ya. Makes me shudder every time cuz I know they're thinking..."oh my" when they're done doing it to me! (Makes me laugh actually.)

[febflake]

Originally Posted by Angela

It's interesting how much more receptive to/generous with you are according to how a person is dressed. It makes sense -- if the person takes the time to clothe themselves with society's expectations in mind, then he's more likely to live up to your expectations of whether he's likely to be telling you the truth, more likely to spend your donation the way you hope, more likely not to be stark raving mad.

I'm not saying that's true, but it's how we thin-slice it in that quick moment.

Not really. It deals more with connecting to someone of the same group you are in (someone who has a job, who is 'normal', oooooh... normality.. now that's a subject) or even better someone who's in a group you would like to belong to (you trick yourself; you are in contact with someone from a group you don't belong, congrats you just climbed some steps on the social ladder "hey! SHE is asking money from ME!").

That's another interpretation which seems to be confirmed by other experiences.

You are not thinking about the person motives, it's about yours.
Most beggars need alcohol to be able to overcome the shame to ask money 6 times a minute to strangers all day long.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by febflake

You are not thinking about the person motives, it's about yours.

You're right about that. I'm unwilling to contribute to what I thin-slice as a downward spiral. A person approaching with a request to solve a problem would be more likely to engage me -- if I get the impression that I'm contributing to a solution, not a continuing cycle of destruction. That impression, again, is thin-sliced -- discerned in less than the blink of an eye, and is made by a thousand things including deliberate personal presentation.

So, I'm more motivated to give food to an asker than cash; I donate money to organizations that assist people in getting on their feet, or taking care of people who are unable to do that. I understand that there are folks who are unwilling or not mentally up to applying for that kind of assistance, and those folks might get something else from me, but not money.

When Danger Man and I are walking the promenade, beggar city, our mantra is "No money!" - but we carry extra energy bars.

[Dan.Linehan]

Most people want to give money to good causes; they don't want their money to be wasted or squandered. If two people ask me for money, and one is scrubby and one is well dressed, I would tend to assume that the person who is well dressed would have a capability to do something more positive with the funds, rather than spend it on drugs or alcohol. They've already proven that they are capable of taking care of themselves, their hygeine at least. I would tend to support someone who looks responsible more than someone who appears to totally lost or confused. Any amount of money won't help someone who makes fundmentally bad choices anyway.

Erin, as far as the social experiment, I don't really know what to test for at this point? Overweight vs thin, black vs white, rich looking vs poor, fashionable vs tourist, male vs female... it's pretty much all been done. Maybe you should just take a camera and see if people would do human tricks to get on youtube?

[CreativeSpace]

I am going to be honest and say I am usually one of those people that gets angry when asked for money by people on the street. It is something I am aware of and looking into but one thing that strikes me about the whole thing is the fact I get angry so quickly. I am by nature a very (or certainly try to be) a compassionate person but that seems to go out of the window when I am confronted by a beggar! (Interesting choice of word "confronted"!) I do have a theory that seeing people in a less fortunate state than me triggers a inner fear that I to may find myself in a vulnerable state and this has serious implications about my sense of security. Also giving away my security to someone vulnerable can seem quite alarming and I end up reacting with anger. Like I said I am working on this but it ain't easy. You become very judgemental without realising!

[recky]

If you do the expirement again, you should try it with individual people vs. groups.

I've realized that I am much more likely to give when I'm alone, and some of my friends have said so as well.

Is it humbleness, or is it shame?

Also you could try sidewalk vs. mall. I'd give more to someone for a bus or food, rather than a phonecall. Or different parts of town.

-becky

[funDivaChristy]

I have felt many different things when giving to people, a lot similar to the good and bad already mentioned.

I once discovered that even if I think someone is going to use the money for something I judge as bad that should not change if I want to give it. Let's say I give $5 to a guy and I'm pretty sure he will be buying alcohol with it. Who am I to judge that that is wrong? How do I know that the alcohol he gets with my money might give him enough courage to get thru another day and tomorrow he finds a shelter and changes his life?

Because by the same reasoning, whos to say that people do not judge me as stupid or wasteful for spending $150 to get the NHL Center Ice package so I can watch my beloved Avalanche from my home in Las Vegas?

I felt stupid the last time I gave money because I actually said "get something good" and then I was reprimanding myself in my head that I could have given without judgement.

And Erin, since I am in Las Vegas if you ever want a volunteer for more experimentation here I am - I am bold and obnoxious so begging for money would be fun for me!

Be Happy!
Christy

[Marc Greve]

I have an idea;

Wouldn't it be interesting to make a flash-"game" or something similar where you could pin different styles of dress on famous people.

Imagine Tony Robbins in an Iron Maiden T-shirt and frayed shorts, George Bush all gothed up or our very own Steve with leatherjacket and sunglasses pushed up on his forehead.

Would truly be interesting to see just how much you can change the perceived appearance of someone.

I think what usually happens is that we generalize characteristics of the dress of anyone we see to their character.
Clothing simply fires off a bunch of different anchors, it's not that we're judgemental at all - it's just a habit really.

I also hear a bunch of people I know go "Well, if people don't like me because of how I dress then I don't care for them." They themselves ALWAYS go "Oh GOD! Look at that Gucci ♥♥♥♥♥, she's so shallow," I don't really need to point this one out, do I?

The thing is - when people meet you, the ONLY thing they have to go on, concerning their perceptions of your character, is what they SEE. Unless you give them something more to go on, I can't see the crime in their assumptions.

Basically it's all about frame control. I dress pretty outrageously by most people's standards (flowing black coats, top hats, vests, frilly shirts (18th century style), pocket watch, gemmed rings and the occasional cane. What do you think of me now?
How does that sit with you?

I have an abiding fascination of anything from the 1700s-1900s, that's just me.

My point is this; I don't dress regularly, and people don't see me as "a regular guy", and the time I usually show people aren't regular. The impression I make on others are made to match my expectations of others.

The way you dress and present yourself to the world is as much a form of communication as anything else. When asking a stranger for the time you don't siddle all the way up to him and SCREAM into his ear - that's bad communication, it doesn't correctly signal what your desires or expectations of that particular interaction are.

People frustrations of what to wear and finally giving up on it, will, to me at least, usually just be a sign of them giving up. It's just learning what goes together, which colours look good and how others will interpret it.

Don't make it into a thing.
It's not a thing.

It's a skill to master and utilize to further your own happiness, nothing more.

Just my two cents anyway - and hey - I'm not pointing any fingers here or saying it's life or death. Dress however you want, I'll always talk to you

[Liara Covert]

Clothing is an extension of personal freedom that permits self-expression as well as self-discovery. Many people don't realize how they tend to judge and stereotype. Over the years, I've come to look at clothing as a wise teacher. I ask myself why I assume that just because someone wears a certain make or style of clothes, that they have a stereotypical personality or values. I also reflect on myself and what image I'd like to portray versus which style would reveal the real me. I've been amazed at how my clothing choices reveal unconscious emotions, hopes, feelings and offer me ways to learn about me.

Sure, clothes can reveal a public persona. Though, not everyone with money desires to flaunt position or status in clothes. Its interesting how clothes choices can also reflect attempts to change things about your character. Think of the story of the Emporer's New Clothes and how the idea of clothes was a meaphor for attempts to fit in as well as find self-acceptance. What compels people to focus so much on self-image? If your clothes fit too tightly, you likely feel restricted in some area of your life and wish to 'break free'.

When it comes to the homeless, I prefer to offer food and converstation rather than money. I like the stories of related experiences shared by readers.

[Erki]

I don't know what's so attractive in me for those who want money from me. I'm not rich, I'm not very stylishly clothed, maybe I just look really kind and nice..
Anyway, last few weeks at least 6 people have asked me for money on street. Mostly not so sober men who openly say that they need the money for a can of beer. No, I didn't give them money. Two people said that they need the money for a bus ticket to drive home which is about 30 kms away, to those I did give the money. I don't know if they were lying or not. If they weren't good, if they were, well, at least it wasn't much money(less than a dollar).