The Golden Rule (Blog)

[Erin Pavlina]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Erin Pavlina's blog:

The Golden Rule

[SriniG]

Can you imagine what our world would be like if everyone followed the Golden Rule? I think about this a lot. There would be no need for prisons, there would be no war.

And there would be no borders, no governments, no passports, no police. I always imagine such a world. What a wonderful and harmonious world it would be!

[Trezker]

When other people mistreat you do you assume they are asking to be treated the same way, and if so do you comply by getting revenge on them and violating your own honor?

I believe I don't need to return any "favours" of that kind, just like I don't expect to get a gift back from the same person I am kind towards. The universe balances everything. Those who do bad things to others live in their own personal hell every day. Those who help other live in their own personal heaven every day.

The golden rule does not say "Do unto others as others do unto you".
It may look like I'm just switching it around but the sentence isn't commutative

[Mags]

I've also often thought about what the world would be like if everyone followed the Golden Rule.

If you think about it, most (if not all) of our many laws all boil down to trying to ensure that people behave fairly, considerately, respectfully and lovingly towards each other. If everyone was nice to each other, we wouldn't need laws and lawyers to enforce them

We're in the process of buying a house, and just had to wade through pages and pages of legalese related to the title deeds for the new house and what was allowed and not allowed. At the end of it, I said to our solicitor, "so, essentially what I've just spent hours reading all boils down to be a good neighbour"

[ns123]

I think the Golden Rule is generally a good one. But sometimes, not everyone thinks the way I think and would like to be treated the way I would like to be treated. People are different and have different preferences.

Let's take this another step further shall we? What about in regards to evil? There are those out there that will actively harm us, or our children, or our loved ones. If we do not destroy them they will continue to do harm until we or our loved ones are dead.

So if we are to apply the Golden Rule, would that mean that if we kill Hitler, we in think we should be killed? What about what happened in Rawanda (genocide, killing, raping, of innocent people, women, elderly, children, etc) ? If we do not simply destroy the people going on the rampage killing, how do we stop them? I doubt treating them with civility and applying the Golden Rule would work.

I guess that view is based on the assumption that evil exists, and the only way to stop it is to destroy it. Some may not believe that assumption and I do respect it.

I think it's wonderful to imagine a world in which people treat each other with kindness and dignity. A world where no bombs, wars, borders, fear, exist. But the problem is, this is not our world now. How do we apply the Golden Rule in this existing world, with out it causing the downfall of our selves and those we love?

[Apollia]

Originally Posted by ns123

Let's take this another step further shall we? What about in regards to evil? There are those out there that will actively harm us, or our children, or our loved ones. If we do not destroy them they will continue to do harm until we or our loved ones are dead.

So if we are to apply the Golden Rule, would that mean that if we kill Hitler, we in think we should be killed? What about what happened in Rawanda (genocide, killing, raping, of innocent people, women, elderly, children, etc) ? If we do not simply destroy the people going on the rampage killing, how do we stop them? I doubt treating them with civility and applying the Golden Rule would work.

Well, what I would do is, imprison such people someplace nice and cozy where they hopefully can't get out, but it will be so comfortable they won't even want to. The object being not to take vengeance, but simply to prevent them from hurting anyone else.

It's also quite possible for innocent people to end up in jail, so if every prisoner is treated well, then, no innocent person will ever get mistreated.

I guess the way this fits in with the Golden Rule is, if I ever had the misfortune of ending up in jail, I would want to be treated very well, and be very comfortable, especially if I was innocent.

Also, even guilty criminals can have innocent family members, etc., who love them and don't want to see them suffer, so, I think it's good to be merciful at least for the sake of the innocent.

[Apollia]

Nice article. I do think the world would probably be better if everyone lived by the Golden Rule.

A variation on the Golden Rule I've heard is "treat others as they would like to be treated", because sometimes people don't want to be treated the same way you do.

I think that might be a slight improvement on the Golden Rule, because, for instance, someone who has convinced themselves they're happy about being coerced to pay taxes could use the Golden Rule to justify coercing others.

It's not a perfect improvement, though, because a person could make very unfair, unreasonable demands about how they would like to be treated, so the "treat others as they would like to be treated" rule can't always be applied.

SriniG wrote:

And there would be no borders, no governments, no passports, no police. I always imagine such a world. What a wonderful and harmonious world it would be!

Hopefully. I would especially like it if there were no taxes. Taxes seem to me like they go against the Golden Rule.

The IRS can tell you to pay your taxes or they're going to fine you and/or throw you in jail, but the same actions would be criminal extortion if you tried doing that back to the IRS, or to anyone else.

I think the IRS's version of the Golden Rule must be: "If we do unto you, it's legal, but if you do unto us, it's criminal".

I definitely like the Golden Rule a lot more than "do as we say, not as we do".

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by SriniG

And there would be no borders, no governments, no passports, no police. I always imagine such a world. What a wonderful and harmonious world it would be!

That's what Karl Marx thought too.

[Bitsy]

I have been in relationships with male people who treated me like crap...but they were treating me the same way they treat themselves in rapport with others. Are they implementing the Golden Rule? I used to tell myself that they are treating me the crappy way they want to be treated. I was treating them better I think, and they seemed to prefer to give their attention and respect to those who were treating them like crap instead of to me.

What is that then? They don't even apply the Golden Rule in how they treat themselves? Or they do apply it, but they want to be treated like crap and if you don't treat them like crap, they overlook you? What if a person treats you like crap, or does any one of those atrocities listed earlier in this thread, because he actually wants to be treated like crap too? Is that possible?

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

They don't even apply the Golden Rule in how they treat themselves? Or they do apply it, but they want to be treated like crap and if you don't treat them like crap, they overlook you?

Having a poor self image can result in expecting / subconsciously wanting others to treat you poorly.

[Mags]

A few people have discussed the issue here regarding what one does when under attack, when someone else is actively looking to harm you. I thought it would be pertinent to give you these quotes from an amazing woman called Peace Pilgrim who walked across the US from 1953 to 1981. She believed that evil is never overcome by more evil, only by love and she put her belief into action a few times.

The following quotes are from her book, which is available as a free pdf from the website dedicated to her work (www.peacepilgrim.com):

On another occasion I was called upon to defend a frail eight year old girl against a large man who was about to beat her. The girl was terrified. It was my most difficult test. I was staying at a ranch and the family went into town. The little girl did not want to go with them, and they asked, since I was there, would I take care of the child? I was writing a letter by the window when I saw a car arrive. A man got out of the car. The girl saw him and ran and he followed, chasing her into a barn. I went immediately into the barn. The girl was cowering in terror in the corner. He was coming at her slowly and deliberately.

You know the power of thought. You're constantly creating through thought. And you attract to you whatever you fear. So I knew her danger because of her fear. (I fear nothing and expect good--so good comes!) I put my body immediately between the man and the girl. I just stood and looked at this poor, psychologically sick man with loving compassion. He came close. He stopped! He looked at me for quite a while. He then turned and walked away and the girl was safe. There was not a word spoken.

Now, what was the alternative? Suppose I had been so foolish as to forget the law of love by hitting back and relying upon the jungle law of tooth and claw? Undoubtedly I would have been beaten--perhaps even to death and possibly the little girl as well! Never underestimate the power of God's love--it transforms! It reaches the spark of good in the other person and the person is disarmed.

One test happened in the middle of the night in the middle of the California desert. The traffic had just about stopped, and there wasn't a human habitation within many miles. I saw a car parked at the side of the road. The driver called to me saying, "Come on, get in and get warm." I said, "I don't ride." He said, "I'm not going anywhere, I'm just parked here." I got in. I looked at the man. He was a big, burly man--what most people would call a rough looking individual. After we had talked a while he said, "Say, wouldn't you like to get a few winks of sleep?" And I said, "Oh, yes, I certainly would!" And I curled up and went to sleep. When I awoke I could see the man was very puzzled about something, and after we had talked for quite some time he admitted that when he had asked me to get into the car he had certainly meant me no good, adding, "When you curled up so trustingly and went to sleep, I just couldn't touch you!"

Once I was hit by a disturbed teenage boy whom I had taken for a walk. He wanted to go hiking but was afraid he might break a leg and be left lying there. Everyone was afraid to go with him. He was a great big fellow and looked like a football player, and he was known to be violent at times. He had once beaten his mother so badly that she had to spend several weeks in the hospital. Everybody was afraid of him, so I offered to go with him. As we got up to the first hilltop everything was going fine. Then a thunderstorm came along. He was very terrified because the thundershower was very close. Suddenly he went off the beam and came for me, hitting at me. I didn't run away although I guess I could have--he had a heavy pack on his back. But even while he was hitting me I could only feel the deepest compassion toward him. How terrible to be so psychologically sick that you would be able to hit a defenseless old woman! I bathed his hatred with love even while he hit me. As a result the hitting stopped. He said, "You didn't hit back! Mother always hits back." The delayed reaction, because of his disturbance, had reached the good in him. Oh, it's there--no matter how deeply it is buried--and he experienced remorse and complete self-condemnation. What are a few bruises on my body in comparison with the transformation of a human life? To make a long story short he was never violent again. He is a useful person in this world today.