Audio Podcast: Being Psychic (Blog)

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Adelina

When there is a consciousness shift on the physical plane,
will there also be on the astral?

Maybe a small one.

I can't take an accurate head count, but the physical universe seems to be only a tiny fraction of the various astral planes. I'd say there are many more non-corporeal beings out there than corporeal ones here on earth.

If we raise the consciousness of earth, I'm not sure what kind of impact it will have on the other planes of existence. There's a lot of stuff out there.

I'm not sure if there are aliens in the physical universe, but they're all over the astral planes.

As far as I know, the physical universe is the most energetically dense dimension. Things move and change rather slowly here. Other astral planes are a lot more energetic.

[yossarian]

I used to be just like Spartan. Sadly popular culture has a vested interest in repressing these kinds of experiences. If people became aware not only of higher powers but also of a whole world besides the Earth, they would automatically lose a lot of fear and shame. This would be a major problem for those on Earth who like to make war and hoard power.

I think skepticism is highly useful in peeling away all the false garbage that has been heaped on all of us throughout our lives. Every single day there are forces who try to condition us into fear and doubt and depression and addiction. Skepticism (I'm talking about skepticism leveled at everything, including conventional reality) can be an excellent way to break free form this stuff. Many atheists are the free-est people you can find for this reason, they are able to put aside the encumbrances that are drilled into everyone from childhood.

Anyway a final encumbrance to let go of is doubt itself as Steve talks about, and eventually learning to turn skepticism in on itself. There is nothing disempowering and nothing dangerous about the temporary suspension of disbelief. We do it every time we watch a movie. If you try it with psychic phenomenon eventually you find yourself a believer because things happen that are confirmed by physical reality. It's never a quick instant proof, or at least it wasn't for me. For me it came really slowly over years, and no doubt there is still a skeptical part of me.

In fact just the other day I had a reading with Erin and I asked her what kind of job would be good for me. She actually relayed to me the exact job that I've always dreamed of but that I've never told a single person about EVER. In fact even though I always thought I would be good at it, I've never really been aware that there is even a market for this particular little niche. It was also so far away from what I'm considered "good at" that I've never told anyone because I know they would laugh at me.

These are thoughts that have existed only in my mind for years, and then on the phone Erin just lists it off with a giggle like I'm an open book. There's a certain point where disbelief becomes the delusion. For 75,000 years humans have invariably believed in an invisible spiritual world, is it really all those billions of people who were delusional, or is it us who can't turn off the TV and sit still for 5 minutes?

Anyway I think the skeptical position is extremely useful because society is so degenerate, but all things have their limits, and like Steve has been saying for years "you have to turn skepticism on itself to come full circle"

P.S. I enjoyed this podcast, I think it's an excellent format that is underrated. It's so much more fun to just listen to my ipod while doing whatever than it is to sit down and read an article

[RallyMcnally]

I've had similar experience's as you with the astral creatures trying to take over or do stuff to my body while being in the weird paralysis state you describe. When I wake up in that state, it's because I feel like a dog is licking the inside of my mouth, or that I'm choking. After I open my eyes I usually see a big red diamond-shaped eyed creature on top of me. My experience usually occur in the early morning hours (2:00-5:00am). The funny thing is that the medical community half-heartidly acknowledges these events as "sleep paralysis" and just say it's your mind playing tricks on you.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Since astral projection can feel like dying, it's really easy to freak out and thereby become a demon magnet. By the time I realize what's happening and figure out I need to raise my vibration, I've already got company.

Unfortunately for me, in the demon world I'm a fairly unpopular guy. Demons don't take kindly to people who work on raising consciousness in others. They'd much rather see people fall into fear since that gives them power.

The worst part is that the demons aren't the scariest things out there.

Many times when I go astral, I'm still partly stuck in my body, so I'm astrally paralyzed, meaning I can't move or shift my vibration much. It's like being stuck in the doorway between two worlds.

Over the years I learned how to make a sound with my physical body while I'm astral. I can vibrate my vocal cords but nothing more than that. When Erin hears it, she knows to nudge me until I pop back into my body. Most of my astral experiences happen within the first 20 minutes of going to bed.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by RallyMcnally

I've had similar experience's as you with the astral creatures trying to take over or do stuff to my body while being in the weird paralysis state you describe. When I wake up in that state, it's because I feel like a dog is licking the inside of my mouth, or that I'm choking. After I open my eyes I usually see a big red diamond-shaped eyed creature on top of me. My experience usually occur in the early morning hours (2:00-5:00am). The funny thing is that the medical community half-heartidly acknowledges these events as "sleep paralysis" and just say it's your mind playing tricks on you.

Eww...I don't know what I'd do if that happened...I wonder why these creatures do this, or if they cause the paralysis to prolong or if they are just attracted by it.

[Spartan]

The thing I don't get is, even if it's possible for one to project their 'conciousness' outside of their physical body and visit astral planes etc, how can one see without their eyes? How can one hear without their ears? In fact, how can one think without their brain?

This is an excerpt from an essay I wrote, titled 'What is wrong with Cartesian dualism?' It makes some significant points regarding dualism and is relevant to this discussion.

Cartesian dualism claims that the mind is a non-physical substance, whereas the body is physical and separate from the mind. In fact this is partially right, for the mind is indeed a non-physical substance, but not in the way Descartes thought, it is non-physical in the sense that it merely exists as a concept.

The mind could be defined as a way of interpreting all the various processes of the brain holistically. We use the word 'mind' for convenience, a way of collectively referring to the functions of the brain, such as thought, perception, memory, emotion, will, imagination etc. However, it doesn’t exist as a separate entity; it is instead the synergistic result of physical/chemical processes in the brain.

Thus the mind is a non-physical substance, not because it exists as a separate entity in an imaginary non-physical realm, such as the 'ether' or the 'astral plane', but because it is not really a thing at all. It is instead the collection of physical processes that happen in the brain.

This conclusion can be illustrated using G. Ryle’s allegory of the foreign university student:

"A foreigner visiting Oxford or Cambridge for the first time is shown a number of colleges, libraries, playing fields, museums, scientific departments and administrative offices. He then asks 'But where is the University? I have seen where the members of the College live, where the Registrar works, where the scientists experiment and the rest. But I have not yet seen the University in which reside and work the members of your University.' It has then to be explained to him that the University is not another collateral institution, some ulterior counterpart to the colleges, laboratories and offices which he has seen. The university is just the way in which all that he has already seen is organized."1

Ryle uses this as an example of a 'category-mistake', in this case the visitor is "mistakenly allocating the university to the same category as that to which the other institutions belong."1 This illustrates Ryle's argument that when we deliberate over what the mind is, we are making a 'category-mistake' by assuming it is some sort of quasi-existing entity, leading to what he called 'the dogma of the Ghost in the Machine' - the view that the mind is some sort of ghostly entity independent of the body.

...Consciousness is just another characteristic of the brain. Scientists may not yet know how consciousness is created, but this doesn’t give it some special status above all other functions of the brain. It may not be fully understood but then again not much about the brain is fully understood, neuroscience is still a fairly new discipline. So I conclude that consciousness is not some ghostly entity independent of the body, and even if it was, it’s nonsensical to make it synonymous with 'mind'. Consciousness, like memory and thought, is just another function of the brain.

Consciousness is only one aspect of the mind, and without memory, thought, emotion etc consciousness is worthless. Hence, how is it possible to function with just one aspect of the 'mind', a function that is meaningless on its own? And how can one perceive without physical senses to do the perceiving?

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by Spartan

The thing I don't get is, even if it's possible for one to project their 'conciousness' outside of their physical body and visit astral planes etc, how can one see without their eyes? How can one hear without their ears? In fact, how can one think without their brain?

This is an excerpt from an essay I wrote, titled 'What is wrong with Cartesian dualism?' It makes some significant points regarding dualism and is relevant to this discussion.



Consciousness is only one aspect of the mind, and without memory, thought, emotion etc consciousness is worthless. Hence, how is it possible to function with just one aspect of the 'mind', a function that is meaningless on its own? And how can one perceive without physical senses to do the perceiving?

Can you see sound? Can you taste music? Can you hear cold? Okay, there is a certain funky condition that can mess up your senses, but healthy people cannnot do this. Same goes with the astral plane and all that jazz. You experience those with your sixt sense, the other five won't do you any good, just like you can't use your hearing to taste if something is spoiled.

[pianoperformer]

Could it be possible that, just as we have physical senses to express ourselves in, and receive input from, the physical world, there is similar in the non-physical?

Also, as you admitted, science doesn't know where consciousness is. Therefore, you cannot be 100% positive that consciousness is inseparable from the brain. You can be fairly sure, if you like, but not positive.

Nothing may serve to convince you, but you can at least allow a little room for doubt in your certainty, so as to be open to experiencing what you currently refuse to experience.

[Erin Pavlina]

Can you see in a dream? But your eyes are closed so how is this possible?

You didn't listen to the entire podcast, because we covered a lot of your questions. Give it a full listen and maybe it will answer questions you haven't even asked yet.

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Can you see in a dream? But your eyes are closed so how is this possible?

You didn't listen to the entire podcast, because we covered a lot of your questions. Give it a full listen and maybe it will answer questions you haven't even asked yet.

One can make mental pictures out of images already stored in memory, yet that is different to visually perceiving a world independent of the mind. This requires functioning eyes.

Perhaps you could explain how your podcast reconciled the fact that it is a 'category-mistake' to make consciousness synonymous with mind?

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Spartan

One can make mental pictures out of images already stored in memory, yet that is different to visuallly perceiving a world independent of the mind. This requires functioning eyes.

Your eyes don't see. They merely gather light frequencies as input. Your brain/mind sees by interpreting that input in a certain way.

When you are dreaming or astral, you have no need of your physical eyes. Your eyes are worthless because they're attuned only to the physical plane and the frequencies of visible light.

Your mind, however, isn't so limited. Your mind can interpret frequencies beyond the visible spectrum. Instead of the input coming from your eyes though, it goes straight to your mind.

Because the visual centers of the mind end up getting overtrained on physical input from the eyes, you'll interpret your astral experiences as if they are visual sensations, even though they aren't in the same spectrum that your eyes normally see. So you'll initially perceive astral worlds with a similar field of view. With practice, however, you can break some of the limitations created by your eyes. For example, when I'm on the astral plane, I can expand my field of view and see what's behind and in front of me at the same time. This can be very disorienting though because the physically-trained mind isn't accustomed to it.

Genuine astral experiences aren't mish-mashes of memories. They're quite unique experiences. You can see things you've never seen in the physical world.

Unfortunately, describing astral projection in plain text doesn't do it justice. It's something to be experienced. If you've never done it, the above probably won't make much sense.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Spartan

Perhaps you could explain how your podcast reconciled the fact that it is a 'category-mistake' to make consciousness synonymous with mind?

You only call it a category mistake because you haven't seen evidence for the non-corporeality of consciousness. For someone who has seen evidence such as Erin, this is simply not an issue that arises.

The idea of mind as an aggregate of physical parts is a fine idea but it doesn't change the goalposts of the debate at all and is not central to the question of whether psychic phenomenon is real. Technically speaking, there is nothing "unphysical" about psychic phenomenon. The best research has demonstrated that what we call psychic is simply part of a more fundamental force of nature, more fundamental than the 4 fundamental forces we know of. Some call it "consciousness units" some call it "torsion fields" and these wave-particle-fields and their incredibly strange behavior is what is responsible for psychic phenomenon.

In fact, come to think of it, Steve actually mentions in this very podcast that he wouldn't be surprised to find a center of the brain that is responsible for psychic phenomenon, (This center has actually already been found and seems to be heavily related to the pineal gland) so if you want to be a pedant about it, in a way Steve has directly addressed your issue of the ghost in the shell category-mistake - and Steve's answer is that a part of the brain is responsible for psychic events just like the occipital lobe is responsible for visual events and the temporal lobe deals with sound.

So in a way it actually turns out that you and Steve agree, and your only difference is that you have not seen evidence of this psychic center of the brain, while Steve has.

If you want to read about the actual research done into this area the easiest place to find it is on David Wilcock's site Divine Cosmos - Home

He spares no detail in delving into all the various psychic phenomenon, and is able to source a heck of a lot of his material from mainstream scientific journals, as well as many journals that aren't considered mainstream.

Anyway, ultimately your argument is similar to the dead-end that many scientists have gone down all throughout history. And that is the dead end of thinking that "if theory doesn't allow it to exist, it must not exist" this kind of thinking has failed so many times over and over in science.. when the Wright Brothers starting flying with a heavier-than-air airplane many scientists refused to believe it for YEARS after the first flight because they thought it was some kind of illusion.

At the time it was thought that simple Archimedean buoyancy principles ensured that heavier than air was impossible, but at the time the fluid dynamic effect of generating lift was unknown (and to this day remains widely misunderstood).

It took a long time to prove to the world that The Wright Brothers were not frauds, and that was for something very simple and very very visible! A plane flying in the sky can be viewed by hundreds of people... how hard is it to observe psychic phenomenon? Much harder. As a confounding factor, if you come to psychic phenomenon seeking to disprove it then you actually suppress the emergence of proof. This is an inherent part of the phenomenon. Strange? Yes. But so is heavier than air flight, so are electromagnetic waves, so is quantum mechanics and relativity and on and on.

In Galileo's time, people thought it strange that a feather and a bowling ball would fall at the same rate in a vacuum. It *is* strange, but that doesn't make it untrue.

I came from a very similar place as you Spartan, I have heavy formal education in math, physics and theoretical computer science as well as my own autodidacticism that spans the set of all sciences. At a certain point in a scientist's life he has to embrace the unknown and courageously go with the evidence and not how he wants things to be, how he was taught, or how he expects things to be, but he has go with the pure honest evidence as Kepler did so many years ago when he discovered the elliptical nature of the orbits. He didn't want it to be true, but he courageously embraced the pure evidence that took him so far out of mainstream culture and so far away from mainstream thought at the time, and he discovered something that changed the world.

We all have to make a similar discovery as Kepler, but with psychic phenomenon it is an internal discovery and a personal discovery. No one can show you the evidence, they can only point you to it. No one can fly an airplane over your house ten times to make you really believe it's true. You have to somehow find a way to open up to it yourself and then invite the proof into your life.

There is a fear that I think all scientists have and that is being wrong. I know from first hand experience that it is terrifying to go out on a limb and consider something that may turn out to be false and may even make you look like an idiot, if only to yourself. But this is the nature of discovery. Every scientist from Democrates to Aristotle to Kepler to Galileo to Newton to Einstein to Feynman (sorry I'm physics-biased) had to go out on a limb and risk looking like an idiot.

So anyway, consider that it may be true, and give it a chance. This is the nature of pure honest wholesome scientific inquiry When it comes to psychic phenomenon, giving it a chance requires temporary suspension of disbelief. This is where the 30-day trial becomes so powerful.

[Steve Pavlina]

I think something that discourages people from actively delving into psychic development is that they've gotten comfortable living their lives without it, and if it turns out to be true, they have to throw out their old model of the universe and rebuild a new one from scratch. That's too disturbing for many people to consider.

The truth is that it is initially disturbing when you first learn there are other realms beyond the physical world. As we mentioned in the podcast, Erin explored this stuff for many years before trying to turn it off and tune it out in her early 20s. It can be frustrating to perceive things that other people consider nonexistent.

But eventually you have to stop denying your own perceptions and find a way to explain what you're experiencing, even if most pepole aren't particularly helpful.

In the long run, psychic development does more good than harm. One of the main benefits is that it can help you overcome any fear of death or concerns about your mortality. You gain a new perspective that can actually make living in the physical universe much easier. You don't get so caught up in trivialities like acquiring lots of material possessions.

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by yossarian

You only call it a category mistake because you haven't seen evidence for the non-corporeality of consciousness. For someone who has seen evidence such as Erin, this is simply not an issue that arises.

I don't really understand this answer? How does this reconcile the 'category-mistake' of equating consciousness with mind?

@Steve/Erin: Is there anyway Erin could use her psychic abilities to garner information about me that only I could know? Something specific, not something generic or something I've posted about (obviously). If she managed to do this, I would perhaps be forced to re-examine my beliefs.

[Fullcrum]

There is a way Spartan.

Get a reading.

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

There is a way Spartan.

Get a reading.

I don't want a reading, I'm not paying $100+ for something I don't believe in. Plus I'm a student, I can't afford a reading! But I might believe if Erin could garner one piece of information about me that is not generic or revealed in one of my posts. How hard can that be for someone who's supposedly had psychic abilities since the age of 4?

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Spartan

@Steve/Erin: Is there anyway Erin could use her psychic abilities to garner information about me that only I could know? Something specific, not something generic or something I've posted about (obviously). If she managed to do this, I would perhaps be forced to re-examine my beliefs.

This is what she does in many of her readings. It's called validation.

In your case I wouldn't recommend a reading though.... as per the reasons mentioned in the podcast on giving validation to people who aren't ready to accept psychic development yet.

I'm not trying to be evasive. If you've listened to the whole podcast, then you'll know why validation isn't something to be toyed with. It's not a good idea for Erin to use validation to attempt to convince you of something you aren't ready to accept. We talked about this at length when discussing the importance of free will. You're using your free will to choose not to recognize psychic development as a valid course for you. Consequently, it would be unwise for Erin to try to override your choice. It's better for your growth that you don't receive such validation until and unless you're ready for it.

You may not understand why/how this analogy applies, but your question amounts to saying to a cold fireplace, "Give me some heat, so I can justify giving you some wood." You have it backwards. If you want to get validation of psychic abilities, you must first decide of your own free will that you're reading to pursue that path. Until that happens no validation will be forthcoming -- you would not be ready to accept it if it did.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Spartan

I don't really understand this answer? How does this reconcile the 'category-mistake' of equating consciousness with mind?

When you call it a category mistake you assume that Erin cannot grab facts out of the air that are true. (With statistically significant accuracy)

It *would* be a category mistake to call mind anything more than an emergent phenomenon that is based on an aggregate of parts *IF* one does not have evidence that the mind has access to information that is physically inaccessible.

If this argument is incomprehensible to you we will have to get into specifically defining "physical" to go further. I'm not sure how far you want to go with this philosophizing and semantic finagling.

[Algernon]

Great podcast! It was breezy and conversational without being too inside. I liked the fact that even lucid dreaming was defined for those who might be unfamiliar with it.

I hope we get to hear more Erin-centric podcasts soon!

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Seriously, starting with lucid dreaming was the first step for me. Erin taught me a lot, and I also learned from reading Stephen LaBerge's two books, Lucid Dreaming and Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming. Learning to lucid dream was a very consciousness-expanding experience. It really changed how I viewed reality.

What techniques worked best for you when you were starting out? Are you able to induce a lucid dream whenever you want to? What have been some of your most meaningful lucid dreams?