| |||||||
| Register | FAQ | Members List | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
| Erin Pavlina Discuss ideas, articles, and podcasts from ErinPavlina.com. New threads are automatically generated for Erin's latest blog posts. |
|
Welcome to the Personal Development for Smart People Forums, the place for lively, intelligent discussion of all personal growth issues -- physical, mental, financial, social, emotional, spiritual, and more. You're currently viewing as a guest, which gives you limited read-only access. By joining our free community, you'll be able to post your own messages, access many members-only features, see the new messages posted since your last visit, and of course remove this header message. Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please join today. If you arrived here from a search engine, you may want to explore the main site first, which includes hundreds of deep and insightful articles on a variety of personal development topics. |
 |
| | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
02-14-2008, 10:10 AM
| |||
| |||
 Law of Attraction and the Role of Action (Blog) Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Erin Pavlina's blog: Law of Attraction and the Role of Action      |
|
02-14-2008, 11:00 AM
| |||
| |||
| To me, this isn't any sort of law of the universe or manifestation or anything else. It's just common sense. Yes, if you want fresh fish for dinner, you need to go get some fish. There's nothing magical or mystical about it, nothing whatsoever. That's not attraction, it's acquisition.  By the same token, it's not manifestation or LOA when you get a job after pounding the pavement for weeks or months, handing out resumes and filling in applications (something I've seen LOA coaches talk about). Yeah, if you apply at enough places, you'll eventually get a job, assuming you're qualified for the positions you're applying for. The same is true for most of the LOA things I've seen. This "take action" thing is the part that always makes me laugh, because it's always just common sense. Yes, put in applications to get a job. Yes, go fishing to catch fish. Yes, get a teaching degree to be a teacher. I really WANT to believe in the Law of Attraction, but I've been reading about it for months and months now, and trying to practice it and as far as I can tell, it's nothing more than old fashioned positive thinking, some self confidence exercises, and a lot of hard work that has very little to do with the universe, and everything to do with personal effort. Last edited by OlderWiser : 02-14-2008 at 11:54 AM. |
|
02-14-2008, 02:10 PM
| |||
| |||
| Thanks for this post, it has reminded me of some things about myself. not too long ago I was in a severe depression, hated everything, never had a girlfriend etc. Now after some help, im feeling great, and ive gone from never having a girlfriend to being in a great relationship, as well as having more girls than i can remember telling me how they like me. It must be noted that I have never had anyone tell me this when I was in the depressed state. I wanted love, and received it once I became the vibrational match. |
|
02-14-2008, 05:11 PM
| |||
| |||
| what about when you have no idea what action to take?? Or when your negative thoughts (fears) are so thick that you can't stop thinking them?? Does that mean it really is hopeless that you will become, and stay, a vibrational match for your intentions?? |
|
02-14-2008, 05:58 PM
| |||
| |||
| This is where it gets frustrating for me too, because I feel like OlderWiser said above . . . and I realize this is a Personal Development forum, but when I'm thinking about what Intentional Manifestation is, I'm not thinking of it like this: Somebody wants extra money. He gets a part-time bartending job. Wow! LoA works! You want some fresh fish, so you go out and catch some fish. I don't see in any way how that is LoA at work. It is somewhat IM at work, because IM may spur a person on to effective action. LoA to me, would be, a person wants some fresh fish, so she gets her fishing equipment together to go over to the lake. Just as she's about to get in the car, a neighbor stops by and says "Hey! I just caught a whole bunch of fresh perch! Want some?" This is LoA and IM working together, as far as I can tell. And I would love to hear more, and more, and more of these types of stories. |
|
02-14-2008, 06:11 PM
| |||
| |||
| For some people LOA is very easy and straightforward. But there are apparently a lot of people who misunderstand LOA as just wishing and hoping. "I wish I could win the lottery," but then they never even buy a ticket. LoA is not magic. It's being clear about your goals (difficult for some people) and then preparing yourself to receive that goal by taking strong and consistent action towards it. And yes, someone could come along while you want some fish and say, "Hey, I just caught some fish would you like some" and that's great. But if you don't even know you want fish, the opportunity to have fish may pass you by. When you have no idea what action to take or what you really want then you are at the mercy of other peoples' goals and desires, at the mercy of what your guides or higher self want for you, or at the mercy of what nefarious beings want for you. I do believe it's important to get clarity on what you want because it then also defines what you're not willing to settle for.
__________________ Erin Pavlina, Intuitive Counselor, Psychic Medium Book a reading | Readings FAQ | Testimonials "I'm so glad I decided to get my reading! I never thought so much could be said and touched upon in half an hour's time. Many of the key areas that I was stuck in have been cleared up. The value I got was way beyond my expectations." - Maarten in Belgium |
|
02-14-2008, 06:33 PM
| |||
| |||
| Quote:
Who's to say that what we term "magical" and "mystical" now are no more than principles we have yet to understand? And, just because some choose to call them "magical" or "mystical" doesn't make them any less real. On the flip side of that coin, denying that they are "magical" or "mystical" doesn't make them any less so. Just because we know HOW something works, doesn't mean we know WHY it works. The two are not mutually exclusive and - IMHO - actually support and defend one another. |
|
02-14-2008, 09:30 PM
| |||
| |||
| Quote:
I honestly don't meant to be negative, but this is something I've known all my life. It's not a law of anything other than "cause and effect". Quote:
I DO understand the principle at work here. It's very simple: Set a goal. Figure out how to achieve that goal. Work toward it until you achieve it (or until you give up and go another direction, I suppose). Voila. There is NO spirituality involved in that. None. And that's what disappoints me. It's all EGO based. Quote:
Like I said, I honestly WANT to believe, but there's nothing there to "believe". It's common sense. Want more money? Get a better job! How do you do that? Put in resumes and applications until you get one! VOILA! LOA at work. As I said, that's not LOA. It's just cause and effect. Simple goalsetting and planning and carrying out of action. There's no "higher self" involved at ALL. It's all ego based. YOU come up with the idea, YOU plan for it, YOU execute it. And that really disappoints me, because it's not "spiritual" in the least. I had real hope that there WAS something spiritual going on that I could tap into, but I find that, like everything else, it's all up to me and my puny little ego to figure it out.  Again, I'm sincerely sorry to sound so very negative, but it's just how I feel about the situation after a tremendous amount of reading, soul-searching, thought, meditation, and, yes, prayer... If it's really up to me and my little ego to figure it all out and put it all into action, well, let's just say that's not encouraging. Last edited by OlderWiser : 02-14-2008 at 09:38 PM. Reason: Fixed formatting |
|
02-14-2008, 11:25 PM
| |||
| |||
| Quote:
Personally, I'm looking for the magic. I'm looking for this sort of thing: Somebody applies for a ton of jobs and doesn't get any offers. He explores IM and LoA and begins visualizing, meditating, dreaming, writing affirmations, whatever feels right for him. He begins living this new reality of this new job, accepting that it's already a done deal and now he's just calmly waiting for it to appear. Maybe not always calmly. Maybe sometimes he's frustrated, upset, ready to throw it all out the window, maybe sometimes he's afraid he'll never find what he really wants. But most of the time he's calmly going about his life, still sending out resumes, still going on interviews, still doing his resarch, and still working with his IM. At some point, out of the blue, he gets a call from a place he'd been turned down by several months ago, long before he ever started his work with LoA, and now they want to offer him a job. In fact they want to offer him an even better position than he had originally applied for. That's where I go "wow." |
|
02-14-2008, 11:53 PM
| |||
| |||
| Quote:
Of course, I had a great biz meeting today for work that would fulfill most of what's on my list, so maybe I already have taken whatever action it was that brought me more in alignment with my intentions  As for those who don't get how the LOA works, it's really not about working hard to get what you want. Maybe a better way to describe it is having an intention for a specific kind of relationship and writing it down then joining a couple of dating websites and having the first person make you a favorite be just about everything on your list. Or having the intention that you will move into a house by X date and having your dad's neighbor mention to him that a house is available and it's just what you were looking for. Or having your spouse want a divorce and you are really committed to having your kid's parents live close together and then your next door neighbors move out a couple of weeks later so your spouse can move in next door. Or you are committed to working from home doing something you love that will give you enough money to expand you current tiny business and the first job that you see on Craigslist turns out to be with someone who will not only hire you to work for her but also wants to help you with your business and market your products. Those are 4 things that happened to me in the last 4 years (actually, 3 of them happened in the last 7 months). There's dozens of other similar ones. Hm, maybe I've answered my own question. The hard part about the LoA for me is that you never see it in action until it's happened. You just keep intending, sending it to the universe and heading in that general direction and suddenly you find that it's happened. For me it's becoming more about really trusting it's going to happen enough to remember to include important things in my intentions (like specifying that there be 2 bathrooms in the dream house, lol!) |
|
02-14-2008, 11:56 PM
| |||
| |||
| Moonrambler, let me share my experience with you. Years ago I decided I needed to bring in more income to help out our little growing family. I wrote down my intention. I wanted a job where I could work from home, for about 20 hours per week, making a minimum of $25 per hour. I decided I wanted it to be through web consulting and that I would either want one client who could give me the 20 hours or a bunch that would add up to 20. Then I went on about my merry way. I did not solicit anyone. I didn't even tell many people what I wanted. I think only Steve knew. one day, out of the blue, I got an email from a woman at a magazine telling me that their current webmaster was going on maternity leave and asking if I wanted to take her place for 3 months at a rate of $25/hour at about 20 hours per week. Dream come true. How did this woman know about me? Many months before I was on their website and noticed a few programming errors so I emailed their "webmaster" and told them about a few problems I saw. I wasn't asking for anythign and can't believe they even thought to ask me. I took the job, the woman decided not to come back after maternity leave so the job was mine and I kept it about a year before moving on. That was a great example of Law of Attraction in my opinion. I was clear about what I wanted, I had the skills to handle what I wanted, and I believed it was possible to get it. And it came to me. Same thing happened when I sold my business. Read the blog story here: VegFamily Sold: How I used the Law of Attraction to sell a business
__________________ Erin Pavlina, Intuitive Counselor, Psychic Medium Book a reading | Readings FAQ | Testimonials "I'm so glad I decided to get my reading! I never thought so much could be said and touched upon in half an hour's time. Many of the key areas that I was stuck in have been cleared up. The value I got was way beyond my expectations." - Maarten in Belgium |
|
02-15-2008, 01:05 AM
| |||
| |||
| Erin, I've read that story on your blog. (I'm a very devoted reader of your blog; I think I've read everything you've written there, and I do recommend it to others.) Where is the "action" in that story? You just decided what you wanted and it appeared. Yes, I do consider that pretty cool. Absolutely. But where in that is the "take action", other than accepting the job? Was it writing it down? I meditate regularly, I keep a private journal and a public one with thoughts on spirituality, etc. I read a LOT. I've been working at this for a long time now, trying to understand. I've seen a lot of stuff that makes me go, "Huh" and a lot that makes me go, "Hmm". I've seen things in my own life that I would call miraculous or close to it, though I had no clue about any sort spiritual laws at the time. I'm sure it must work for some people, at least some of the time. I guess I'm just profoundly frustrated with the entire process. I work my metaphorical backside off trying to change my limiting beliefs and my attitudes and so on and on and on and I've got pretty much nothing to show for it but a shelf full of books. It IS frustrating. And to make matters worse, I'm in currently experiencing a life situation that I find extremely stressful. I can be argued that I'm in this situation specifically to teach me something or other, of course, and that's probably true (I suspect it is). But I've read a lot of positive thinking and goal setting stuff. There's nothing miraculous about that. There's nothing spiritual about it. It's just hard work paying off. If I could figure out how to actually do this stuff, I'd be much less stressed. I apologise if I've come across as harsh. I'm just frustrated and I feel very disappointed with the universe. I don't know what else I can do, and while I know that time is an illusion, it's very short and if something does change very soon, things are going to be very, very bad for our family. I feel like a total failure. I didn't try hard enough, or believe enough, or get rid of enough limiting beliefs, or... I dunno. I'm just not good enough. Pretty disheartening, to say the least. Apologies. I'm going to go now. |
|
02-15-2008, 01:34 AM
| |||
| |||
| I have to say I sympathize with both sides. I agree in some ways with OlderWiser. On the other hand, I've had the LOA work in my own life but it's been kind of hit and miss. Some things seem obvious. For example, our own action must be involved somehow. Even the lottery winner had to get off the couch and buy a ticket. And it would seem that there are some things that can't be done. No matter how much I may want to be Napoleon, no matter how much I may believe I am Napoleon, I will never be emperor of France. So where are the limits and what is necessary to make it work consistently? Please don't tell me all I have to do it is "feel" it. This means different things to different people. Don't tell me all I have to do is believe. I may manage to convince myself I'm thin. That is, until the next time I look in mirror. Don't tell me all I have to do is act as if it's true. That may work for some things (for example, changing personality traits) but when it comes to something concrete, it could do more harm than good. (Picture the person with loaded credit cards acting as if they had unlimited wealth.) I've come to the conclusion that there are some people with a natural talent for this. The rest of us can develop the ability with practice. But what do we practice? In my opinion, the really interesting area lies is identifying those techniques that, when practiced consistently, will allow all to utilize the LOA. I can't help but feel like the characters in "Stranger in a Strange Land" whose seemingly magical abilities were simple but could only be taught in Martian. Where to I learn to speak Martian? |
|
02-15-2008, 05:49 AM
| |||
| |||
| I have only 3 words to say: Practise, practise, practise. (Or does that count as only one word?). |
|
02-15-2008, 07:01 AM
| |||
| |||
| Quote:
"S'all good." But, I will take a second to follow up. I don't think I misunderstood you. I completely get that you feel you understand the cause and effect of hard work, planning, and self-actualization. Cool. BUT, and this is just and idea, so try it on and see how it fits: What if there's more to it than you are seeing? Let ME put it another way: If you were a marionette - or something LIKE a marionette - and had been your entire existence, you would not necessarily recognize that you were such. You would see the strings that held you up as merely "how things were" or "A function of the physical universe, bound within the laws of science and nature". Unless the curtain somehow slipped or parted, and you suddenly saw the Puppet Masters, you could go your entire existence simply thinking the strings were there because they were there. But if you DID see the curtain slip, what would you do? Probably run around and tell everyone you knew, "Hey... These strings...they're attached to something WAY bigger than us!" Maybe people would believe you, maybe they wouldn't. But in the end, it wouldn't matter, because YOU'D know what you saw. But what if YOU didn't see the curtain slip? What if someone ELSE saw it? What if they came to you and said, "Hey, these strings...they're connected to something WAY bigger than we are!" Maybe you'd belive them.. maybe you wouldn't. You see, you could still explain everything that happened to you in terms of the world you had created for yourself and it wouldn't NEED to include some "mystical force" holding you up. Of course, that wouldn't make the mystical force any less real... |
|
02-15-2008, 07:19 AM
| |||
| |||
| Of course thinking positive and taking action is common sense. But common sense is a funny term since it isn't common at all nowadays... Positive thinking has a huge effect on you. It keeps you motivated and makes everything easier to endure. But my impression from Steves old posts is that positive thinking has a bigger effect than you can explain through science and common sense. An example: Take two guys having the exact same intention with all actions and outward appearance being exactly the same. If one guy thinks more negative thoughts than the other, the more positive one has a greater chance to attract his goal. Well, it doesn't really matter if LoA has some "magic" to it. The "common sense" factor is so big you'd be an idiot not to use it even if there's nothing more to it. |
|
02-15-2008, 11:23 AM
| |||
| |||
| Quote:
|
|
02-15-2008, 01:49 PM
| |||
| |||
| Quote:
Thank you, Erin, for responding -- that's more what I'm talking about. |
|
02-15-2008, 02:04 PM
| |||
| |||
| I wanted to jump in here with a few thoughts. As I have mentioned before I came to the LOA stuff from a little bit of a different angle, that of majick. I know some competent "dark" mages who DO use LOA/IM with very little action and get results... But these people have spent a LOT of time (and as ALG said) practice to get there. Now let me tell you about myself. I decided to throw away most of the ritual trappings I was using and just use LOA/IM and visualization. Now keep in mind I'm not new at this. For a few weeks nothing happened. Actually it was more like two months now that I think about it. Then all of a sudden, things started to happen. The first two intentions I'm not talking about, because they deal with darkness and aren't relevant. (one has come true, one didn't yet) But another was for money. My wife calls me this week about a check that came in for $400. I didn't DO anything, except think/visualize money. Then, all of a sudden, all of this synchronicity started happening with other things because I CHANGED my world-view. Now granted, like I said, this type of thing isn't new to me. I am good at focusing my will (especially when I'm in rage) and *I* still had to practice as well. You have to get rid of the blocks and frustration you have which I understand is sometimes harder to do than you think. But keep going, and if you can focus enough you are going to be good to go in MOST cases. BTD |