What is the spiritual meaning behind mass suffering? (Blog)

[Erin Pavlina]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Erin Pavlina's blog:

What is the spiritual meaning behind mass suffering?

[Mew3692002]

I agree with some of the points you brought up in that article but in some ways I also disagree with you. I agree in that it takes a lot of people suffering for people to take notice (look at what happened with Africa, people noticed it before but it took something like Darfur to get people to really notice what was happening over there) and that examination does lead to change. What I don't agree with is the idea that people have to get hurt or be oppressed just for someone to look up and take notice, that seems wrong to me. I don't agree with people being martyrs just for a major change to happen in the way we view things. That's akin to saying that it is right to inflict harm on another just to teach everyone else that it is wrong to hurt others, isn't there a better way to teach others a lesson?

[Erin Pavlina]

I'm not saying that people have to get hurt so others will take notice. Think of all the things that are NOT occuring right now that don't need to occur because we can all agree they are terrible and no one has to suffer to show us.

But in the situations where some people think something is acceptable and some people think it is wrong, then it often does take a large amount of suffering for change to finally occur. It would be great if it didn't though.

[Mew3692002]

I agree it would take some suffering to get a change to happen, but it may not be many people that causes this change to happen but just one person. It only takes one person to save or ruin the world.

[Dan.Linehan]

[Erin Pavlina]

funny! But true.

[DiscoDan]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

I'm not saying that people have to get hurt so others will take notice. Think of all the things that are NOT occurring right now that don't need to occur because we can all agree they are terrible and no one has to suffer to show us.

But in the situations where some people think something is acceptable and some people think it is wrong, then it often does take a large amount of suffering for change to finally occur. It would be great if it didn't though.

Hey, Erin.

Please don't misunderstand, I am a big fan of your site and I usually agree with most of your posts, but this one in particular strikes me as a bit off. Perhaps you can clarify your stance a bit for me?

If we have access to all knowledge in ethereal form, why would we consciously throw ourselves into ignorance when incarnating in order to 'raise awareness' of a particular issue? It seems to me that having knowledge to begin with would be good enough, wouldn't it? Why do we need to simulate ignorance in order to gain knowledge in a simulation if we already had that knowledge to begin with?

My thoughts on this issue are complex and it would take me some time to explicate on my particular viewpoint (time which really should be spent on a math assignment that's due tomorrow morning ), but if you could clarify a bit, I would be grateful.

[Erin Pavlina]

Because when we incarnate the veil is drawn, free will is established, and most of us do not remember anything about our lives as energy. Then we are raised by society where fear sometimes rule our actions. So suffering happens. I believe that some people knowingly incarnate into a situation where suffering is going to occur and some people fall into it due to other people causing them to suffer.


This is why I am a big proponent of remembering where we came from. When we remember who we are when we are non-physical I really think everyone would stop hurting others because they would see instantly that they are just hurting themselves. Peace will come through this realization.

[DiscoDan]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Because when we incarnate the veil is drawn, free will is established, and most of us do not remember anything about our lives as energy. Then we are raised by society where fear sometimes rule our actions. So suffering happens. I believe that some people knowingly incarnate into a situation where suffering is going to occur and some people fall into it due to other people causing them to suffer.


This is why I am a big proponent of remembering where we came from. When we remember who we are when we are non-physical I really think everyone would stop hurting others because they would see instantly that they are just hurting themselves. Peace will come through this realization.

Ahhh, I see... Thanks for the clarification. But I have another question (which may or may not be a 'biggie'): why do we incarnate? What is to be gained in the physical that does not exist in the ethereal?

I understand you're busy and I don't want to take up too much of your time, so you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but I kind of feel this question is relevant to this issue.

[Erin Pavlina]

As a quick answer, read these two blog entries on what happens before we incarnate:



Picking Our Parents and Our Life Circumstances

Destiny vs. Free Will

[Dan.Linehan]

What is the cause of suffering?

The cause of suffering to learn what wasn't learned in past ideologies.

What does that mean?

When people incarnate they make certain choices to see things that are crucial to their development. Some of these things cannot be seen without them taking on a role that amounts to them appearing to be manipulated by another. But you must remember, that no one is ever really manipulated by another.

If I live in a wealthy country should I concern myself with the suffering of those in developing nations?

Yes and no. You have your own perspective and your own development to focus on. You chose the perspectives you are seeing for a reason. There is a certain worldview that you can maintain that makes living ethically possible for everyone involved, so your main focus should not be solely to help those in need but to simply maintain that worldview. There is a overwhelming group of people in need and there is not much one person can do to fix that. Industry is the solution here but there must be a change in how the industries run in your nation.

Is there a spiritual path higher than that of reducing suffering?

Certainly, and for you its accountability. The main theme of your existence so far has been to show you that those who need most to be held accountable are not. Your focus on accountability will reduce suffering more than anything else you could do.

Will nanotechnology reduce suffering?

Nanotechnology is the stuff of legends, and the script hasn't yet been fully written on where it will take your people. One thing is certain though, like any other new technology it can be used for great things, or abused. Certainly both will happen.