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| Emotional Mastery Emotional intelligence, addiction and recovery, grieving, loss, fear, anger, guilt, resentment, frustration, anxiety, depression, happiness, joy, love, kindness, forgiveness, self-acceptance, confidence, escaping the pit of despair, EFT |
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07-13-2007, 07:32 PM
| #1 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 219
 |  I'm suicidal: what can I do about this selfish world?
Hi. I want to kill myself, and I can't see any way out... No matter how much I want to change things: The only way to change the world, is to use others for your own purposes, even though the same people might be okay with that... If I want to make money, I have to manipulate peoples' needs to satisfy my own as I satisfy theirs. Why would such a sick system exist? Even as I speak, I'm making money for Steve by looking at his ads while writing this... I don't care if I don't pay for it... He's taking advantage of my needs, and I don't respect that... As much as realism is realistic, and money seems inevitable and necessary, or even useful... I know that this universe could still work in a harmonious way without money. I have things I want to bring to the world... but why do I need to bring things people want, and why do they need to pay for them? Who tells us that this is how it works? The first recorded use of financial aids was knotted ropes used to record favors or goods owed to merchants. It's not because we need money, but because we nitpick and can't deal with giving something away for free... What a stupid, stupid flaw... I don't know how to deal with such a world, but I'll keep trying. Don't worry, suicide isn't my thing. I think about the consequences and know that it would be selfish even more than the world around me. But what can I do about this perverted world? What do you think you can do? Do you even want to change this? ~ David |
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07-13-2007, 07:42 PM
| #2 (permalink) |
| Administrator  Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 4,593
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First thing I would do is reframe everything that doesn't serve you. It sounds like you have some beliefs that don't serve you. "What can I do about this perverted world?" First thing I would change is my perspective on the world. I wouldn't want to live in a perverted world either, but thankfully the one I live in is beautiful. Here's another one: "The only way to change the world, is to use others for your own purposes, even though the same people might be okay with that" Can you find another way of looking at the world besides this? |
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07-13-2007, 07:51 PM
| #3 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California
Posts: 17
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Do you have a better idea than currency? It's all based on supply and demand. If we gave and took for free....well it wouldnt really be "free", because there's a thing called obligation. And when you take for free, you are expected to give back sometime later. Repaying a favor is a burden, so people decided to trade for things on the spot, but then they argued over how many of this item is worth this one item-then came currency. Or something to use to get what you want with a value that everyone agreed on. That's my opinion mixed with small knowledge of how currency came to be. And besides, if everything were free, and you could get everything you wanted with no struggle....why would you want to live? Life would have no spark, why do anything when it wont affect you? Why challange yourself to do more when there is no gain. There's still people to live for, but would those big, fancy houses be so alluring if everyone had one? And I'd rather work my butt off for something I really wanted and earn it than just getting it for nothing. The item becomes worthless. I think that would take a lot of the fun out of life.  |
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07-13-2007, 08:23 PM
| #4 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 502
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07-13-2007, 08:30 PM
| #5 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13
| Suicide
Let me agree with Erin. I myself used to struggle with many of the same issues. I hve since realized that as Huxley said "the only corner of the universe that you can be sure to control is yourself" It is only by changing the way you look at the world that the worlld itself will change. Perhaps you should see if you can bring something forward that you can offer for free. Take this site. Steve & Erin have posted a tremendous amount of content here for free. The ads allow the content to be free. If you focus on the adds on the site you will have a negative emotion. If however, you focus on a great article from Steve and that will make you feel positive. If you havent yet please check out Steves podcasts, (they are free) and also check out the Intro to Abraham on Abraham-hicks.com And remember....Smile. Life is beautiful!!!  |
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07-13-2007, 08:33 PM
| #6 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California
Posts: 17
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[/QUOTE]I don't care if I don't pay for it... He's taking advantage of my needs, and I don't respect that... ~ David[/QUOTE] I didnt read the whole post, then mlc82 pointed this out. I apologize before hand but.....WTF? You missed the whole point of the site to say sometimes so...false. And Erin's right, you need a change of perspective. |
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07-13-2007, 08:53 PM
| #7 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,090
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In other words be an example of what you want to see in others. If you are the best that you can be or at least if you're working on it, you can't help but inspire and influence those around you. If you sit around lamenting the state of affairs you aren't doing much to change them and you're accepting defeat before you even start. Rome wasn't built in a day as they say and neither are people's attitudes and perspectives. If you want to see change, start with yourself. Take initiative and learn and develop yourself all you can. You'll be surprised at how much a difference you can make. Invest in your own personal development first! Last edited by ZHereford; 07-13-2007 at 08:56 PM. | |
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07-13-2007, 09:24 PM
| #8 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: EU
Posts: 209
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Ever heard about the law of exchange? In the beginning there was no money, only barter. People exchanged their goods and services directly with each other. As civilizations grew and barter became too clumsy, people have invented a medium so that they didn't have to exchange directly anymore. This basically means that today you exchange what you can provide, to money, and then exchange that money to whatever you wish to have (anything you want and others can provide). And no, this is not selfish! It isn't selfish because you have to pay the price first to others, so that they first get something from you, then they give something in return. First you contribute, then you get your rewards. First you help them, then they help you. But imagine how much it sucked if you could exchange only with those who actually need what you can provide. Can you see now how fair this system is? It just couldn't be more equal. You have to contribute first, and you get your rewards afterward. It's not selfish, it's totally based on contribution! (these are not my own thoughts, credits go to Brian Tracey) Today I focus on helping as many people as I can, they give me money (because they can't do anything directly for me that I'd like to exchange with them), which I can spend on the results of other peoples work! This leads to complete abundance: you can have everything you want, as long as you pay the price for it (in value/contribution, not in money, that's only the medium). Hope this helps mate! It has changed my world in a heartbeat. | |
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07-13-2007, 10:02 PM
| #9 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: EU
Posts: 209
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Also see the end of this thread.
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07-13-2007, 10:48 PM
| #10 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 219
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Thanks guys. I do realize that my perspective has been unrealistic, to say the least. I was in a low state, and I was a fool to take it out on someone who certainly does help a great number of people. Was it envy? Not entirely, but yes. Regardless, I apologize for the severity, content, and overall wrongness of what I wrote. I don't know if I am lazy, because I put in a lot of effort and it does sometimes work out the way it should. What I do know is that no one deserves to be the target of someone else's depressed rage. Now that that's out of the way, I really have to wonder what perspective would better suit me.. The background context might be useful for those who'd like to help, so here goes: For the last 19 years of my life, I've been in a sort of bubble. Most things were done for me unless I wanted to do them myself, and rarely did I work for my own money. I was a moocher, and I had no realization of it until only a few years ago. I've desperately searched for something to give to the world that the world would appreciate. I've had to search within myself to cope with multiple neurological disorders anyway, so I was ready to have ideas. The way I live my life physically, one would think I was wasting time. Maybe I am. But if I ever feel that way, it's because I'm afraid of being seen that way. I don't know how to get a job, and my family is going to throw me out on the street if I don't have a yet-to-be-determined rent paid every month starting September. On its own, this wouldn't have been a problem. The reason it's a problem is that the idea was brought up at my psychiatrist appointment the day I had started doing astrology here, by my psychiatrist. My parents decided to begin doing that immediately, and when I had at first felt great about myself, I suddenly felt like I was looking in the face of my own incompetence. I'm more afraid than anything, and I am trying to escape from this by focusing on unrealistic ideals. But I've never liked money, because I've never seen someone with money who didn't need to use it all to get back the happiness they lost in their job, or to survive a job they did that made them happy. I've read Steve's blog on this. I know that there's supposed to be a perspective where it all makes sense, but it's as alien to me as almost anything else I can think of. One can only tell themselves that they're not a loser for so long before it starts to sound false... ~ David |
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07-13-2007, 11:47 PM
| #12 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 502
| Quote:
BTW, I used to be in a similar state as you, damn nearly did kill myself at one point (which I'd consider the lowest point of my life to this day) and I've come a long way since then. I believe somone already quoted something similar, but one of the most influential things anyone ever said to me was from my cousin, who told me "The other person in the world that you can control, is you". The best thing you can do is be an example to others for what you WANT the world to be like, regardless of how it is, because with such a mindset, "how it is" is irrevelant. Please excuse any run-ons above, I've had a combo of both too much coffee and cabernet this evening, and should probably stop myself here  Good luck to you though!
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07-14-2007, 02:15 AM
| #13 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 19
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Hi XeutonMojukai, Let me give you a short intro to my own life pattern in the last few years. In early 2002, I went into a phase of existential depression. This probably coincided with 9/11 as for many others. I felt very empty. I started seeing violence, bigotry, exploitation, racism and what not. Everything that you described in your email, I saw. I have a beautiful wife and a great child. I should be happy. I was, but a part of me felt there was something missing in the world. At that moment I felt an urge from within to explore myself. That's when I decided to explore techniques from my own cultural roots of Hinduism, particulary the branch of Yoga. I started meditating my own way. I would sit for an hour and would do my japa meditation, everyday. Those meditations prompted me to get initiated into other advanced techniques. Then, slowly my perspective changed. I realized that it is not the world that was bad. It was my perception of it. My own inner reality was in turmoil, so I was seeing only things that were bad in the world and refused to see what was good. I saw exploitation of the people. But, I refused to see the people helping people in the midst of this chaos. During the course of my meditations, I had several inner experiences, that I don't want to discuss now. But, I realized that I projected out my own inner reality. I realized that I am the creator of my own reality. I saw what my inner reality (lens) was filtering in the what I saw outside. So, I decided to change my inner reality and because of that my outer reality changed. Now, I attract only positives in my life. I attract positive people or people who need my energy which I am happy to give. So, my question to you is what is your inner reality? What is your inner talent? Why do you feel that you have to create only what people want? Why can't you look into yourself and see what you can offer to the world? In the beginning you may think what you have to offer may not fit into the world. Some of your friends or acquentences may also tell you that. But, that is their level of consciousness. Work on what you think will benefit you first. Then, work on it and offer it. I guarantee that you will attract people whose inner self will drive them to you and to what you offer. That is all I can say. Thanks for listening. -Desika |
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07-14-2007, 02:18 AM
| #14 (permalink) | ||
| Member Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 68
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And remember, the only thing that creates the world around you is your attitude towards it. Probably the best recommendation now is to use the appreciation approach - just sit down every once in a while (like once a day, before going to bed) and think about thing in your life that you can be grateful for, and then feel grateful. This way your world looks a lot brighter and you'll attract more things to be grateful for in no time. | ||
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07-14-2007, 03:08 AM
| #15 (permalink) | |||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 937
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As much as realism is realistic, and money seems inevitable and necessary, or even useful... Quote:
I work in a construction office. People have to pay for the hard work my guys and I do, but get nice results. No one wants to do this junk for free. It's back-breaking work, especially for the workers. There has to be incentive, and most people don't like brain-washing too much.Quote:
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07-14-2007, 04:20 PM
| #17 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,065
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Why do you bother about changing others? Change yourself. What matters is that you change, that you are not callous, that you are not indifferent. Change yourself and test it by action. But we want to change everybody except ourselves, which means, really, we do not want to change, we want others to change, and so we remain callous, indiffer- ent, cruel, hoping the environment will change so that we can continue in our own way. The world worships success, the bigger the better; the greater the audience the greater the speaker; the colossal super buildings, cars, and people. Simplicity is lost. The successful people are not the ones who are building a new world. Last edited by munish; 07-14-2007 at 04:31 PM. | |
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07-14-2007, 06:13 PM
| #18 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 525
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David, I once knew and loved a very deep, very intelligent, very spiritual young man whose vision about the world resonated very much with your own. Tragically, he took his own life, and the world will not receive his gifts directly. I believe you are bringing forth a very difficult vision of truth to the world, and it's discouraging, nearly impossible to do it, given the momentum going the other direction. I completely understand why you would feel suicidal. I hope you will find a way to stay true to your vision while living in this materialistic world, because I believe we need what you have to offer. And I hope that the presence of one other person in the world who believes your vision is needed for the collective will encourage you in some way. It is a steep path you have chosen. It may be that you can only develop this consciousness within yourself in this lifetime, and it may never find any kind of substantial reinforcement in the outer world. Please be assured that we are all connected, and that developing your own consciousness in this way contributes to the whole collective in ways you may never consciously know. I pray you might find joy in what may be a lonely path, but a good path nonetheless. Success can only come by being true to who you are, and who you are is deeply beautiful, whether others ever recognize it or not. You are in the world, but not of the world. While here, you must eat and shelter, and unless you can materialize what you need from the ethers, you will have to interface with the world system. But that doesn't mean you have to abandon your vision--just that you have to start where you are, which is part of the learning process for all of us to ground our vision. It's not a sellout of your ideals to start where you are...this insane world. Thank you for taking on this task, for you are serving all of us, whether we realize it or not. Please forgive us, and follow your path. Love, Megan |
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07-14-2007, 07:29 PM
| #19 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 219
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Megan, Your affirmation is something I cannot repay you for. I know that it was not meant for me, and I can assure you that the person you did mean it for has seen it. He has urged me to continue. I will. Ironically, I feel that I have found some real inspiration, as well. I will definitely remember this for what it is: my purpose. ~ David |
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07-14-2007, 09:21 PM
| #20 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2
| Surviving Suicidal Thoughts
I will not fire off any quotes of famous people or give lame advice. Suicide is too serious a matter to not be taken very seriously. First off: Seek help via free or sliding scale therapist. If you can't find it try your local gay and lesbian center. Oddly enough sometimes they are the quickest to respond to straight/gay crisis since they deal with it all the time. Get diagnosed. If you are depressed get treated. If you're bipolar find out about it. If you are drinking too much go to an AA meeting. You can ♥♥♥♥♥ your brains out talking and vent immediately without waiting to see a Shrink. AA and NA meeting are great and sober people can help you... they care. Secondly: Check your habits. Do you smoke, drink and consume sugar and caffeine? Get off sugar first then cut way down the others. Stevia is the best sugar replacement for drinks and the pink stuff works great on cereal etc. Are you working out at all? Simple easy yoga moves can get your energy stated (not the hard moves) and get you motivated. Third: Nutrition - get on 5 small meals a day or three good quality meals. Get some good multi-vitamins and a good B50 complex C and E supplement going. Plan your meals by writing them down then shop according to the list. Calcium and Magnesium are important too. A good strong minneral suppliment can work wonders. Get the good liquid kind. Thirdly: If you are depressed do not use prescription antidepressants at first. In addition to your vitamins the best antidepressant I know of is called Rubidium. It is a trace mineral and works better than most prescription antidepressants for a good percentage of depressed patients according to my doctor. You can find out where to get it by contacting Dr. James Novak's office in San Diego California. The attending nurse of office staff can help you. See your friends: Provided they have good habits and do not suggest you go drinking as a solution. Avoid friends with bad habits like the plague. It is better to have no friends than bad ones. Take LONG walks. A good two hour hike in a nice part of your town will give immediate results to your suicidal thoughts. Even if it is 30 minutes each day you will benefit. It has been proven that a 45 minute walk each day works as well as most SRI Antidepressants. Clean your home: Getting your space immaculate does wonders for you. A good friend can help. He or she will if they know why you are doing it. If you go critical: Get some Xanax or a similar drug as recommended by your doctor. It won't kill you to chill on this drug when you get suicidal. Be careful when doctors jump to put you on antidepressants. But if you decide with your doctor that this is best follow the program precisely. Watch for side effects and report back to your doctor. Now this is all I know and I did not take this hour to write this as a selfish act. So let this be a reminder that some strangers can give love and good advice. I know they have entered my life at those critical times. Like the time the suicide hotline lady stayed on the phone all night with me during my first breakup when I was alone in a new city. There are very good people out there. Reach out and find them. Get the help you need and do not ever give up. Just keep going. Bill Zimmermann San Diego |
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07-14-2007, 11:43 PM
| #21 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 525
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And I agree with Bill, suicide is a very serious matter, and, as he said, if you 'go critical' do what you have to do to stay on the planet, and his advice sounds like it comes from someone who's been there and knows whereof he speaks. Long walks--yes! (I'm one of the people who become actively, compulsively suicidal on antidepressants, so I am very cautious about psyche meds. It was life-saving for me to not take them, but I know it can be life-saving for some to take them.) Follow your life instinct. I hope someday we learn to value our visionaries. This culture is very hard on visionaries, but we desperately need them. We have virtually no resources for Spiritual Emergency. God bless. |
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07-15-2007, 12:40 AM
| #22 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 8,749
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Aren't you yourself the selfish person? Isn't exactly the point of not being selfish doing things that other people need? | |
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07-15-2007, 01:25 PM
| #24 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Earth
Posts: 38
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Hey!, here are some quotes I think that might help, " It is a foolery compared to none, to spend your time correcting the world. " Ralph Waldo Emerson " You see what you are looking for. " Tony Robbins " If you are angry at others then it mainly because you are angry at yourself. " Tony Robbins " World is like a looking glass , frown at it and it will frown to you, laugh at it and it will be your friend." William Makepeace Thackarey " If you don't act on life then life will act on you. " Robbin Sharma " Give world more than it gives you -that is success" Henry Ford " Procrastination is like a Credit Card - It's all fun until the bill arrives!" Author Unknown |
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07-15-2007, 04:03 PM
| #25 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 219
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Plus, what I want to do is definitively that which helps others in itself. What I'm referring to is the fact that, to be a social worker, I need at least a Master's degree, meaning a lot of money paid to get that education, and a lot of work I'll never need to do again just to get there, followed by only getting paid enough to survive, let alone pay back the debt. What I'm talking about is the fact that, if you want to freely contribute to society, you need to compromise your own contributions by manipulating them to become profitable. I can't just go around helping people, because it doesn't make money. So, instead, I have to callous myself and worry about money more than my real interests. This is no fair system, and I'll keep trying to change it. I'm really surprised that so many of you are unaware of the sheer fallacy of selling out so you can provide for others. This may not be a perspective that serves me in this world, but this world is one of many, and given the specifics, it still can be much, much better. Thanks for your support and understanding, guys. I'm still hanging in there .
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07-15-2007, 11:02 PM
| #27 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 632
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There are some great posts here. I can't offer much and anyway, I seem to be a thread-killer here. If it happens to your thread, I apologize. I understand how you feel. Trust that there is a place and a calling for you in this world. When you find it, you will be able to survive in this materialistic world and help others through your calling. This may help: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...ut-20-minutes/ How to discover your life purpose in about 20 minutes |
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07-16-2007, 12:09 AM
| #28 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Oblong, Illinois
Posts: 3,335
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Do you want to help people or do you want to be a social worker? Has becoming a social worker become an external identity that you believe will somehow make you the person you desire to become? If you could choose helping people or being a social worker but not both which would you choose? I wish you clarity and peace on your journey. Happy Trails to you. | |
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07-16-2007, 01:39 AM
| #29 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 322
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I'm having some good thoughts, but I just want to say this short thing, I was there too. I decided that being depressed was just analysis paralysis and that I would not be able to help people if I was depressed. Then I thought, well it would be selfish of me to not be selfish, because I have to be selfish enough so that it can sustain me so that I have the most amount of time that I can be open to being creative to helping people instead of a stupid corporation. Because if I had to work on a subsistence farm, then I would not have time to write these messages to people for free. So stop being selfish by not being selfish enough. And its a really hard thing for me to do, to be selfish, and you really have to shift your thinking, but its cool because after you've been selfish enough then you can provide as much value as possible, with as little return on your part. Like you can maximize the outflow as much as possible, like you can provide 1000x the value for only 1x the money equivalent in return. I see being paid is like receiving a gift that I really don't want, but it would be rude of me not to receive the gift. And also, being in relationship with people help out both people who have a common purpose. Bill Gates might be the greediest guy on the planet, but his monopoly of windows might be more effective than several competing versions of OS becuase it gives developers a common platform... and so one way or another leads to better efficiency. And then he gets to use all his money to help out all the people in Africa. And also, if you charge for a service that is really valuable, then the person doing the buying has less money to spend on other crap products that might hurt the society or the environment... like if they paid $1000 for your information about how to become spiritual then that's $1000 less that they have to spend on a gas guzzling SUV. Information products are pretty harmless things for the environment compared to material products. And then say you've made enough passive income from your services, then you can go bare bones and perhaps give the product away for free so that everyone benefits..... but then again there might be alot of stupid people who do things because they want to but overall are not intelligent enough to see that they are actually harming people, and that where it takes a leader to lead them to inspire them to want to do the right thing. Its just giving people a reason to do things in a certain way and that they feel that you have their best interest in mind and so they want to follow you. But if we want it so that no one has to work, then we need to make robots do all the work then everyone could do whatever they want. Then you could make your robots help you help other people... but right now people gladly volunteer to be paid to help a purpose they see as awesome. Also, I really trust my money to Steve Pavlina than compared to some other entities. In todays world basically 1 dollar = 1 vote and you get to vote buy spending your money on products that you think are benefiting the world. We know what Steve is all about... I have full confidence that he would not use his money to screw people over. I think you just need to know more about the current outside system. Just go to Borders and pick up the book "The World is Flat" it tells about how the internet is really changing the world. Last edited by Sunnybayes; 07-16-2007 at 01:49 AM. |
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