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06-29-2007, 08:20 PM
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 Lessons From An Ex-Self-Help-Junkie Hi! I used to be a self-help junkie and I want to say something about what has changed me to give it up. The most important thing is the realization that ideas by themselves change nothing. If you hunt from one brilliant concept to the next, you may have learned a lot of stuff, but your life won't have changed one bit. Don't believe the idea that knowledge is power. If you have read one good self-help book (The seven habits for example), you have enough success-knowledge to achieve anything you want. The next important thing which goes along the same line is: Reading another book or visiting a seminar is NOT taking action. I'm not only saying that it's not "taking action", but that it's "not taking action", it's a strategy to evade your problems. It makes you believe that you are actually doing something, when actually you're not. The third thing is that it isn't as easy as it sounds. Reading about something in your bed or on a cozy sofa and imagining results is very different from actually doing something to get these results. However, it's the only way it can possibly work. Also, many books, mostly due to marketing reasons, make unrealistic claims and even if they don't it's usually harder than you thought it would be. Accept this. If you don't you may think: This is too hard, the book says it should be easier, I need another book. The thing is, you don't. By becoming a self-help-junkie you start to live in a fantasy-world of easy riches and fame. But that's all it is. Fantasy. The fourth thing is that you don't need most of these self-worth, personality-building, mental preparation things. From my experience it's best to get started and to simply assume that you can do it even if it may become hard and unpleasant. That's just a simple thought. It's not a magic formula or something. You just get going. You don't have to master all your emotions first, or have ultimate self-esteem or achieve enlightenment. Just do it. All this self-focus is just another evasion-strategy. Do something that once its done actually leaves you with a real-world result. Doing this will do you more good that a thousand "brilliant", "life-changing", "cutting-edge psychology" books. The last thing is focus. You can easily get cluttered wanting to change everything in your life at once. Losing 20 pounds, stock-investing, real-estate-investing, exercising, finding the love of your life, getting a promotion, inventing a new product and all of this this week. You're bound to fail with this approach. And I think it's another evasion-strategy to keep you with the books and away from your problems. Pick ONE goal you actually want and work towards it until it's achieved. Keep track of your progress. I'm sure you know what to do. Now just do it. You don't have to build any confidence or read a new book on it. Do it. That's all there's to it.  It will also save you from looking for some self-help guru to solve your problems. You'll be much to busy solving them yourself. And that's the essence of self-help, isn't it?       |
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06-29-2007, 10:21 PM
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06-29-2007, 11:59 PM
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You’re a good person agnostic and I hate to do this… but I must disagree with you… The difference between the winner and number two… is very slight… the difference between a successful person and one who has to struggle from paycheck to paycheck is not all that great… Just to survive, you must be good, to enjoy moderate success you must be very good but to be great… you must be outstanding… and you don’t get to be outstanding by reading a book once or by taking one or two seminars… improving oneself is a lifelong quest… an everyday endeavor… Saying that someone can read a book… and go out there being all that someone could be would be tantamount to telling someone that all he has to do to become a great writer is to read a book than go out and do the same… it does not work that way… If you are serious about leading a successful life and being a success in life you simply must be an assiduous student of the science of success… it is the only way that you can be at your peak from day to day… and thus be able to do everyday what needs to be done in order get on top and to stay on top… . |
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06-30-2007, 12:21 AM
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| I understand what you mean, Shamou, but stopping the reading has improved my life quite a bit. I'm not opposed to self-help. I'm for it and found that too much material can hinder your growth. Maybe I'll get back to the books later on, but for now I've read more than enough. I've read over 700 books myself (at least) and I guess I should work more and that's exactly what I'm trying to say. I would be further ahead now if instead of reading all these books I would have just applied the information from the first one right from the start. I'd love to believe that it all served a worthwhile purpose, but I doubt it. I think all that reading (at least 50% of it) was a waste of time. Maybe I needed to read all these books to understand the first one (I think that's what the Robbins quote implied), but I don't really think so. My point is to have the focus on application, not information. I think a good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed tomorrow. Maybe that was the distinction I got out of 700 books. |
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06-30-2007, 01:10 AM
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Actually I don't read whole books on PD anymore... What I do is spend time everyday on studying small passages over and over again... as I find that you become what you dwell on... In the past two decades, I have spent well over 4000 hours on "Awaken the Giant Within" and probably a few hundred hours on "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" and on "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"... I have made resume of these books that I keep in my Palm... and whenever I have a few minutes to spare, I read some passages over and over again... and eventually make to small distinctions that makes a huge difference... Also, I have given a great many speeches on that material... and the preparation for those speeches are in themselves great ways of assimilating the material in a deeper sense... . |
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06-30-2007, 06:47 AM
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| When the Game changes I very much like the breath of fresh air Agnostic is pointing to here. It's something that I don't see very often. At a low level of PD it is about building self esteem. That's supposed to lead to better thoughts and better actions. That all leads to success. But what is success? It's usually defined with its duality counterpart called failure. As long as you are working towards success aren't you still trapped in a paradigm that includes failure? As long as you are working to build a positive self image, aren't you being haunted in the back of your mind by a negative self image. At a certain point some people develop their awareness to start playing on a different game board. One that isn't limited by duality. On that game board you drop all the knowledge you gained. You drop the conceptual ideas of self image. You drop the abstract ideas of success and failures. You dismantle the virtual reality of self images and conceptual ideas fabricated from knowledge. Your focus in life is about something much more real and expressive. It is about the force of life coming out of you in all manner of expressions. Maybe most people first need to build a better virtual world of knowledge in their mind before they can do this. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't let it go later and move on to something more meaningful and fulfilling. |
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06-30-2007, 02:38 PM
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I read small bits every day, too. But I focus on ONE book, ONE chapter, ONE idea at a time. My progress is huge. The relation between reading and applying has changed dramatically for the better. When you focus on application you still need something to apply, that's for sure, but the learning of material is by itself an empty and resultless exercise. Unless you actually DO something different after reading a book, you could just as well have not read it in the first place. It makes no difference then. It has been said that he who doesn't read is no better off that he who can't read. The same applies to all self-help material in the manner that he who doesn't apply his knowledge is no better off that he who doesn't have the knowledge in the first place. Over-reading and not applying only creates the illusion of progress, but keeps you trapped in the situation where you are now by exactly this illusory progress. It's a dangerous trap for everyone on the path towards self-improvement: Just looking at your belly-button and making "progress" in your head. It's not real progress as long as it doesn't result in a change in your way of life. Quote:
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06-30-2007, 04:55 PM
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Nothing seems to be harder than to open up to a new way of thinking or a different way of seeing an issue... and the only way to achieve it is to be very deliberate and inquisitive with anything that we are focusing on... The small distinctions make all the difference in the world... and, those are the ones we should be concentrating on... BTW- Congratulation on your successes... we can only teach by being an example and you seem to be doing it big time...  . |
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06-30-2007, 05:27 PM
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| Fully applying one major new idea is a breakthrough. But you have to really do it. One of my major flaws has always been trying to do everything at once. I lacked focus and I lacked structure. I'm now moving from one quantum leap to the next. I think that's the way it should be. If you're on this forum and have access to Steve's blog, what you need really isn't new information. You need to apply it. Reading books, listening to audios, going to seminars is the easy part, but also the unfulfilling one. The entire game actually just begins with the application. Everything before doesn't even really count as learning. So to end this post with a real smart-ass-quote: ( )"If you haven't applied what you have learned, you haven't learned it." |
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06-30-2007, 05:45 PM
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| What we really need are self-books that will administer shocks to the people who are not using them correctly. "What, you are telling me to go do this? You're suggesting that I actually start now? I think not. I know what's best for me. Instead, let me just turn to the next .." **BZZZSHOCK!**  Agnostic, when you first started reading self-help books, what was your reasoning behind it? What did you expect to gain? |
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06-30-2007, 06:38 PM
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| I entered from the realm of learning psychology. I just wanted to spend less time learning for school. Then I read Unlimited Power, because it said something about learning on the cover and The Seven Habits a bit later. Well, then I was hooked. Trying to be rich and all that. I think that was the problem. I didn't really have a clear goal to apply this whole stuff to. And when I finally had one, I was too cluttered. One book led to the other and here I am now, full of knowledge and still poor in the application. |
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06-30-2007, 06:53 PM
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Is it possible that being poor in application is due to the fact that you are working toward having a million dollars in the bank before you have mastered the way of having your first thousand in there...??? Are you trying to land a whale before you've mastered catching a ten pounder...??? . |
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06-30-2007, 09:21 PM
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When you know you can do anything you want to do, it's hard to choose one that's really worth sticking to, because afterall, you could just keep learning anyway until you think of something great, and then you'll LAUNCH yourself at it! Imagine that me and some friends are in a snowball fight. They choose a target, build a snowball, whip it at the enemy, adjust, and continue. I become more focused on the snowballs than who I'm trying to hit with them or what I'm actually trying to accomplish. While hiding behind a dumpster, I build a snowball, reinforce it, double roll it, turn it yellow  , add ice to it.... and then I set it down and start making another one, thinking "When I finally get around to throwing these, I am going to DOMINATE!" I prepare for so long that it turns to spring, my snowballs melt, and I have nothing to show for my percieved "progress".Last edited by A.K.Light : 06-30-2007 at 09:25 PM. |
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07-01-2007, 12:59 AM
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But once you start living in the real world, you naturally work towards the 1000 before you reach for the million. At least that's what has happened to me. Thanks for the tip anyway. It has really been one of the major blocks I've had. Poor in application actually refers to a comparison of what can be done as opposed to what is already done. I haven't applied all the ideas I want to implement, yet. I've just started. But I'm on my way, step by step. |
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07-01-2007, 01:36 AM
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| Very interesting thread! My take on all of this, is that rather than aspire to the models of success put out by many so-called gurus, we should strive for self-awareness and for reaching our full potential. We should read literature, study the arts, exercise, socialize and develop our intellect. That is what personal development really is. It's not some ideal put out there by marketing moguls. I think agnostic has a point in that there are so many books with recipes for success based on the authors' own ideas (mostly achieving wealth) and if you don't amass millions you are a failure. That is not genuine success.
__________________ www.essentiallifeskills.net |
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07-01-2007, 01:39 AM
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Plateaus are more stable than steps... so, once you reached one... you can't go backward... a small distinction but a critical one in the way you see your ascension to the top... It's lonely up here... so hurry up...  . |
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07-01-2007, 07:09 PM
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07-02-2007, 10:24 AM
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| Although I don't entirely agree with everything agnostic has says, I must say that as a whole I do agree with the point he is trying to make and think this forum needs to hear what he has to say. This forum is a great place to learn about personal development and expand on ideas with like minded people, there is no doubt about that. However, many people, myself included, have at first or perhaps permanently gotten caught up with reading one self help book after another but there comes a point, just like agnostic has mentioned when you need to put the books down and say, ok today I'm going to take action. Without ACTION we will will never make forward progress in our lives or towards the realization of our goals, if we have bothered to even set any. Self improvement books are great but if you never take any action, I doubt you would ever notice an improvement in your life. John
__________________ Universe Of Success - Personal Development Supersite |
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07-08-2007, 01:23 AM
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| This isnt as easy as you say. If it was so easy to just do it then our life wouldnt be in the rut it was in which led to us reading the book. Just doing it is obviously the best decision but some folks have deep fears,anxieties, shame, negative self image or skewed view of reality. When these things get a grip on you, you dont even see the great things in the world or the opportunities that may be in front of you. Just doing something that has been impossible for you to do your whole life is a real task. I agree with you for the most part. Sometimes you dont even really know what your issue is until you have to face the issue. Or sometimes when you actually face the issue you find out the issue isnt even an issue. What I do is read==>live and do===>reassess==>live and do===>reread Quote:
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07-08-2007, 03:33 AM
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| One of the first Tony Robbins books that I read, I think it was "Awaken the Giant Within" - he was saying that the key to making all of his concepts work was massive action. At the same time it has been very important for me (and I'd say many people)to understand all the concepts fully - often this understanding requires action too. I don't mean to offend at all Agnostic, but if you've read 700 books and felt like 50% of it was a waste time, it is not necessarily because the books themselves had no value, but perhaps it you were just ready to move into a different sort of 'action' phase. I've known enough people who are really hard workers, but fail to achieve what they've wanted to achieve, I know as many who read or understand concepts intellectually but never do anything about it and so never really achieve what they want either. For myself I've found that a balance of both - understanding concepts and ideas - then applying them with sustained and often "massive" action achieves very positive and tangible results. When I started out in business I wasn't making a huge amount of money - and trust me I was applying "massive" action. After a while of kicking the good old dead horse I realized through "massive" debt that my "massive" action wasn't working in the way that I wanted. I went back to the drawing board and read and attended seminars. I learnt what was not working for me, and I applied change through action. In time I was out of debt, then I began making profit and soon enough a comfortable living. Later, I wanted to achieve more, I went back to the drawing board to see what could be improved and what wasn't working as well as it could. I read, attended workshops then applied action - and my profits went up. None of this happened over night - it was a constant process of learning concepts and ideas and then applying them and seeing how they tested in the real world. I laugh when I hear people tell me that there are no "secrets" or "mysteries" left in personal development. Every time I went back to the drawing board it was to unravel a mystery or "secret" that I had not yet realized. The fact that I was not achieving all that I desired was proof enough that I wasn't "getting" something. Then in time when it "clicked" it showed me with real world results that I'd gotten it. I still know today that I don't have all the "secrets" or "mysteries" unraveled because each time that I attend a seminar be it marketing, personal development or spiritual, there are always new concepts that improve my life or business in very effective and tangible ways. I believe that the influencing difference in what a person gets out of reading a PD book or attending a workshop is their intention. There is reading for entertainment or to bring an illusion that real work is being done - and there is reading with the strong intention to use this information to make some real changes in ones life. If a person has the intention to really change their life for the positive then they will read and go to workshops then critically assess what elements need to be worked on in their own lives. This may involve changing some ideas around - and/or it may involve taking a hell of a lot of action. If they haven't changed |