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| Emotional Mastery Emotional intelligence, addiction and recovery, grieving, loss, fear, anger, guilt, resentment, frustration, anxiety, depression, happiness, joy, love, kindness, forgiveness, self-acceptance, confidence, escaping the pit of despair, EFT |
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06-12-2007, 04:21 AM
| #1 (permalink) |
| Retired Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,448
 |  Self-Esteem and Depression
Question for you all. Does self-esteem come before depression and anxiety? The reason I ask is because I am reading a book on self-esteem (Breaking the Chain of low self-esteem by Marilyn Sorensen) and the author theorizes that self-esteem is the root to most of all depression and anxiety. However, I have talked to some people about it and they disagree. They believe that they go hand in hand and depression comes before self-esteem. Of course, it is a matter of opinion but I was curious to hear some of your thoughts. I personally believe that self-esteem is the root to most of depression/anxiety because low self-esteem is about disfigured perceptions and attitudes which could lead to depression/anxiety. Ok, your turn--tell me what you think!  |
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06-12-2007, 04:41 AM
| #3 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 3,811
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Many people may disagree with this but I believe depression to be a form of self-hate... therefore, if I, and other proponents of that view are correct, a low self-esteem would precede depression... . |
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06-15-2007, 09:17 PM
| #12 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 332
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Key point: Plenty of people who experience anxiety actually have *high* self-esteem. I think the relationship is not always between anxiety and self-esteem (although I suppose it could be), but rather between anxiety and self-efficacy. Let's talk about the difference between self esteem and self efficacy: Self Esteem describes the general way you feel about your own worth. Self Efficacy describes the faith you have in your ability to achieve a specific outcome. Self Esteem asks, "How do I feel about myself?" Self Efficacy asks, "Can I do this?" In my opinion, if you have a low degree of self-efficacy in a particular area (mingling with people, for example), you are more likely to experience anxiety related to that particular area, despite the fact that you may actually have very high self-esteem and think of yourself as a swell guy. There is a strong biological component to anxiety, suggesting that the underlying physiology may be the true predecessor in many cases. When physiology is not a predecessor, I imagine it's a chicken-and-egg scenario, and that the answer may vary on a case by case basis, often with one factor feeding on the other. Last edited by JohnPlace; 06-15-2007 at 09:29 PM. |
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06-17-2007, 03:53 AM
| #13 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 241
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What a great post Dulaney. It's an interesting question you have raised. I don't think anxiety and depression are the same thing or even directly related, perhaps indirectly for some people though. I know of people who are quite anxious in general but are not depressed. In relation to your question, I would agree that low self esteem comes before depression or in many cases it may be the catalyst for some peoples depression but not all. I wrote a post about overcoming depression permanently a while back on my site that may be of some help. The site link is below. John |
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06-17-2007, 05:53 AM
| #14 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Beavercleaverville, AZ
Posts: 112
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This issue is similar to "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Depression and low self esteem do go hand in hand. Every situation is different. Working with youngsters for 30 years, you can see a lot of things going on. It's really tragic to see young children who are depressed. Self esteem has a whole lot to do with it. But, there are so many external factors involved, not to mention the genetics that predispose someone toward depression and anxiety. I truly believe they're all related. Now, when you mention anxiety to anyone in the medical field, one of the first questions they ask is: how much coffee and/or caffeine do you consume each day? And, as I'm sure you are aware, some anti-depressants actually make the problem worse. But, there are enough different types of meds out there that you can find the one that works for you through trial and experimentation, if that's the route you want to take. It's certainly a very tangled web. Hope this helps in any way. And, believe me, I know about this topic first-hand. Exercise really helps me a lot. I crave it. The endorphins really do give you a break from these conditions to some degree. But, the most important bit of advice I'd like to offer is this: don't accept it. Fight it, deal with it, and do whatever you have to do to feel better. A multi-pronged approach works best: a good therapist, meds, exercise and diet, and striving toward goals that give you HOPE, not despair. A positive outlook is crucial. But, it's tough to be positive when you fell like hell. I realize that all the way. Some days it's tough just to brush your teeth. Without sounding preachy, alcohol is one of your worst enemies. I tried it, for much too long. It's the great un-doer. Getting sober probably did the most good for me over time. I also have the great fortune to be a musician. I play guitar like mad, and that is a great cathartic stress-reliever, too. Sorry to go on so long. All the best. You can beat this thing. You really can. Just refuse to give in or give up. Hope, help and good things are always right around the corner. --Grant "Brad" |
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06-17-2007, 06:14 AM
| #15 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 3,811
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You really hit it on the nail when you said, "Just refuse to give in or give up."  . | |
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06-17-2007, 01:02 PM
| #16 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 375
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I'd always thought depression was supressed anger caused by blockages in the lower charkras (energy centres). Because it's not socially acceptable to express anger, (it's seen as lack of control) it gets shoved down and compressed blocking the natural flow of energy. Depression (sadly) is more acceptable. Anger is an energy force. It spurs us into action in the same way passion and desire do. We can use the energy constructively by releasing it physically through exercise. Lally |
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06-17-2007, 03:01 PM
| #17 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Beavercleaverville, AZ
Posts: 112
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06-18-2007, 09:14 AM
| #19 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 51
| My two-cents
Working with NLP and acupuncture combined, I have observed a pattern that seems to be very common with depression. Depressed people very often have a liver-meridian that is very low on energy flow. In chinese medicine the liver energy is in charge of control and mastery. Low liver energy translates on the psychological level to lack of control and self-assertiveness in opposisiton to overly high liver energy that gives symptoms of aggression, over-control and bad temper generally. Exploring this syndorm with NLP, I have found that most of the depressed people I have worked with have internal subconscious conflicts that they have no strategy for solving. The most common conflict pattern is being socially conditioned to do one thing while passionately wanting to to another thing. Below the treshold of consciousness there is an argument going on between two subconsious parts that nobody wins, and stalemate reigns. That produces a stagnant situation and generates the feeling of depression. The feeling then clouds the thinking process, and the external world and ones life gets tainted with negative labels. The depressed person is rarely consciously aware of the subconscious conflict, and rationalises the emotion of depression with probable causes the conscious mind can see, which is normally external factors. This attribution of cause to factors that has nothing to do with the real cause is what makes it so hard to get out of it. I believe that just telling a depressed person to change their focus is counter productive. The depression actually have a message for the conscious mind from the subconscious mind that is "Hey, I've got a problem and I don't know how to solve it". The subconscious mind is the part of you that will do learned stuff automatically for you so you can consciously focus on new stuff. If there are two subconsious programs running that gets in each others way you get a deadlock situation, and negative emotion is the subconscious' way of letting you know about it. For those that know anything about computers, it's like when two processes are competing for the same interrupt, you will get a "Not resopnding" situation from one or both processes. This slows the system down. Depression is actually that - the system slowing down with one or more processes not responding. Changing focus woud be like minimizing the error message and using another program for the time being, the problem is not really solved. The way to solve it is to look inside and ask yourself what you would like to do that you are not allowing yourself to do or believing you cannot/should not do. Bring the inner conflict to the surface and negotiate a solution. If there seems to be no solution possible, get the intention of all involved sides in the conflict and see if there is a third or fourth road that will take care of all the intentions. Also pay attention to the values implicated by the sides of the conflict - are they yours, or are they just something that someone else put there when you were to young to protest... In my experience when you solve the underlying conflict, depression lifts immediately. You are back in charge, and the liverenergy starts flowing too, it's palpable on you pulse. So the connection to self-esteem becomes obvious, when you have unresolved inner conflicts you don't get moving where you want to go, and when you don't get moving it's hard to feel good about yourself. |
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06-20-2007, 07:20 PM
| #20 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 230
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I think this entire self-esteem and self-worth idea is completely overrated. You feel depressed because you think lots of depressing thoughts all day, perhaps you also have a bad diet and don't exercise regularly, don't get much sunlight exposure or meet friends only seldomly. That's it. Self-worth is a myth, an illusion. It's only there if you believe in it. I find it sad to see so many people trying to "build self-worth". You don't need to. It's a waste of time. There is no such thing as "deep worth" and you don't need it. All this odd belief leads to is self-absorption, isolation and - guess what - depression. This strange idea that "something is wrong with me" should be completely discarded as the nonsense it really is. There's nothing "wrong" with anybody. If you feel depressed, look at the list above, change some of your behavior and you will see that miraculously your depression will be gone. All that without any meddling with an illusionary self-worth-problem.  Last edited by agnostic; 06-20-2007 at 07:38 PM. |
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