What about love?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Shamou

It's like standing on the roof of a 70 stories building... you can stay there or you can jump off... theoretically you do have a choice...

....or you could walk down the stairs, climb down the fire escape, phone for a helicopter rescue, or just not have gone up to the roof in the first place.

Just like love! you have infinite choice, but in the midst of the "mental illness" of romantic love, I think one is a bit blind and a little addled. I'm not saying that's a bad thing -- it's fun to throw yourself into that crazy, wild feeling of being in love. I just think it's an illusion that eros is really a little cherub with an arrow (or any other force outside one's self), and that the lover is not responsible for the love.

Shamou, did you see Mark LaPierre's questions? What do you think?

Love,
Angela

p.s... yes, you do sound lucky to have the wonderful love you've got-- congratulations! Don't you make your own luck?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

Forgive my levity but this is the kind of stuff great poetry and literature are generated from!

Yeah, I think that's part of the problem. I read too much Shakespeare, watched too many romantic comedies and wrote too much bad poetry about the subject.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Is there a deliberate choice here... or are you just hanging on for dear life... ???

.

Good question. I let you know when (if) I figure it out....

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Yeah, I think that's part of the problem. I read too much Shakespeare, watched too many romantic comedies and wrote too much bad poetry about the subject.

So what you're saying is that your perceptions about what love is/isn't could be influenced by the hyperbole of literature and romanticism in movies.

If you get a chance take a look at my critical thinking and perspective pages. It might balance your tendency to romanticize love.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Good idea, Z.

It would be beneficial not to be so easily influenced. I feel like I was indoctrinated from an early age

Perhaps some critical thinking skills are just the ticket!

[munish]

Is love sentiment? Is love emotion? Is love pleasure and desire?

In this torn desert world there is no love because pleasure and desire play the greatest roles, yet without love your daily life has no meaning.

We have the market mentality and love is not marketable, a give-and-take affair.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

So Shamou, would you say that your bolt of lightning came completely unaware and unprecedented, or where there a lot of choices made and actions undertaken beforehand, perhaps unconsciously, which culminated in that lightning bolt when you finally realised? I guess the question could be asked as, was it "love at first sight" or did you interact with your partner in a way that you didn't consider love until it rapidly escalated and was then recognised?

First, let me tell you my Dad idolized my Mom… she, along with his three sons were the most important things in his life… that was my role model as I grew up…

So, naturally I wanted the same thing for myself… that is, a woman that I could idolize… I found two… when I found the first one… I was way too immature… and ended up in divorce… however, it was a wonderful experience as it showed me what should be done and what should not be…

The second time around as been a complete success so far… however, to answer your question I must say that the first six months after meeting my present wife it was mostly a sexual attraction… that is, until the day that she decided to take a week long trip… and while she was away… lighting struck…

I realized what a gem I had… she was simply perfect… (perfect for me that is) …I knew that nowhere in the entire world could I ever find a more perfect mate…

That was 24 years ago… I have been happy ever since… and she certainly seems to be very happy too… because she is a very successful and independent person and she certainly would not stick around if she was not…

Hope I have answered your question…

.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by betlamed

You can "fall in and out of love" on purpose. It's just a question of re-creating the experience.

That looks good on paper... nice theory... but that's all it is as far as I'm concerned...

After life, I believe that romantic love is the most powerful force there is... and, anyone who think he can manipulate it as will is simply kidding himself...

What till Cupid hits you in the behind... you'll know what I'm talking about...

.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Good question. I let you know when (if) I figure it out....

OK... but just in case... I won't let the motor running...

.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Hope I have answered your question…

Indeed you did, thank you. And also, congratulations!

I suspect that when people experience strong emotional states they're usually less aware of what's going on inside their mind. That is, we get lost in feeling the experience and it's only when we come out of that experience, or the strength of the emotions we feel lessens, that we take the time to think about it. Thus the bolt of lightning when you had a chance to consider what who is really was whose company you'd been enjoying so much for the previous six months.

So a lack of conscious awareness of the associations your mind is making doesn't lessen them at all, but does increase the emotional impact you experience when eventually become aware of the vast web of powerful impressions that has slowly been building up.

Does that sound reasonable to you? I hope I don't come across as trying to lessen your experience at all, but simply understand it in the way I try to understand most things that I haven't yet experienced.

[ReallyGoodIdeas]

Mark!
Love the scenery! And The Winding Path!

Hey, love is something I've been playing with a lot lately. In my previous relationships I now realise I'd been driven by unconscious patterns and was unable to freely love. Having dealt with a lot of stuff about that (sick of the unhappiness it caused) I find myself in my current relationship, able to be far calmer about the whole thing. I'm also more resilient about the ups and downs as well.

Joy to you
Hazel

[betlamed]

Shamou,

Yes, you are right, sex is an enormous power. In my experience, I can deal with it consciously, feel it and enjoy it, and act on it on will, or just leave it at that.

If a theory looks so good on paper, as far as you're concerned, what are good ways to find out if it's also a nice practice? :-)

Oh, and what exactly do you know about cupid's plans that others don't? *gg*

bl

[Asmoday]

First, when talking about romantic love, we need to break it down into its component parts.

The first, is the emotional love. This is to crave the presence of something. A quality such as this can be revealed most starkly by its twin contrast, hate. In both cases, you have a desire relative to the presence of a phenomena. In the case of love, you are attracted, and desire the presence. In the case of hate, you are averse, and desire the absence. In its most extreme form, love is to desire total union with the object of your attraction. Likewise, with hate, the extreme is to desire the destruction of your aversion -- to literally remove it from the world.

Keeping in mind, this can be misguided. In other words, loving or hating can, and often is, based on an idea of a person, rather than a reality. In fact, some argue that since we can never truly know 100% of another, then we can never truly love or hate anyone. This idea, while at first seeming like mere whiney pessimism, becomes quite useful and effective when we talk about turning love on or off.

As this part of love is based on a perception, if you change the perception, then the feeling changes accordingly. That is, if you change how you see the person, you will change how you feel about them. Rewrite memories.

The second part of love is biochemical. Your body is hardwired to go through withdrawl. Neurologically, you are programmed to think about what you love/hate over and over, until you detox from the chemicals. This, standing alone with no love-hate, is lust.

This part can be overcome with all the standard techniques for addiction recovery, believe it or not. It is accelerated, I kid you not, with exercise and drinking a lot of water. Rediculous assertion, I know -- try it first. Experiment, then refute. LOL. I'm serious here.

Before, I polarized, I had a tendency to loose myself.

In any case, detox for the biochemical, and revise first to hate, then to indifference, and you can switch off quite rapidly.

Switching on, however, is more complex, but doable.

The real art is getting others to feel what you want them to

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Angela

But it's like tennis: at first you're afraid you'll be hit by the ball, but the more you practice, the more the ball appears to slow down. You start to be able to see the seams; you feel you have more time to prepare, to make the right swing, and to follow through. Playing becomes so much more satisfying and fulfilling as you realize it's your game and your court and all your choice. But when you decide that romantic love is just something that happens to you (or not), it's like a thousand balls hit to you all at once. All you can do is try to protect your delicate bits.

I have to agree with this analogy, in spite of the controversy/flack. Perhaps if you can't control who you love, there are at least various degrees as to how you handle that love once you are in it. This suggests that the "moves" you make will control the intensity of your feelings, and help you come to terms with your feelings. What I am saying is that even if you can't turn love off, you can at least turn down the intensity and make it easier on yourself.

[Life Warrior]

Originally Posted by Shamou

I realized what a gem I had… she was simply perfect… (perfect for me that is) …I knew that nowhere in the entire world could I ever find a more perfect mate…

That was 24 years ago… I have been happy ever since… and she certainly seems to be very happy too… because she is a very successful and independent person and she certainly would not stick around if she was not…

I just wanted to say that I am happy for the both of you, that you were able to find one another and stay together. I wish you the best of luck in your marriage and path in life as soulmates.

I too have felt the power of deep love, but alas, I had to part ways with my angel. But the love I have for her has not diminished or gone away. On the contrary, this emotion which was born in me after she touched my soul has grown from within me and has evolved into my love for all that there is around me. And yes, this type of love can be powerful enough to let go with no remorse for the loss of self or the future that might have been.