Existential Depression

[mattp]

Has anybody been diagnosed with or had this issue? How did you learn to cope with it?

I recently figured out what has been bothering me for many years. When I was 18 I had a severe car accident and then was diagnosed with a disease that can make you paralyzed at times. I have had my heart stop 3 different times. I struggled with the meaning of life/purpose question for years. I am now 36 and still haven't really figured it out. This really bothered me and I would eventually just shutdown trying to figure everything out. Recently, I ran upon an article about Existential Depression and it fit everything I have been feeling. It has helped me tremendously, just knowing other people struggle with this issue. Everyone else in my family or friends do not think in the same way I do.

Any comments are welcome.

MAtt

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I had not heard that particular term before. I did struggle a lot with the whole "what does it all mean" question throughout my life. I can't say I have found a definitive answer, but it no longer haunts me like it used to either.

I am sorry to hear you are feeling this way. I just wanted to send you some love and let you know someone is listening. I hope you are able to find what you are looking for.

[Shamou]

On existential depression... see here...

Existential Depression

A specific kind of depression, known as existential depression, is brought on by a crisis of meaning or purpose in one's life.

Any significant transition, especially a change of roles in family or work, can trigger this crisis in meaning. The importance of dealing with existential issues should not be underestimated.

A number of clinicians have reported that depression (as well as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) has a strong connection with a person's lack of success in finding his passion-i.e., not being involved in work/activities that feed the core self.

When one does not feel passionate about his or her life, work, or loves, he or she has the potential to experience existential depression. Sometimes, treating existential depression may require major life changes.

.

[ZHereford]

Existentialism is a term used in philosophy which in its most basic definition means "existence precedes essence".

Philosophers who are known as existentialists include Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Sartre and Camus. They all put forth (and I agree with them) that we as humans are responsible for making our lives meaningful, in other words life has whatever meaning we give it. There are both Christian and atheistic existentialists.

The dilemma for many people is that they have a hard time figuring out and deciding what is meaningful and that could lead to depression and meaninglessness.

Here's how I find philosophy contributes to personal development.

[ethereal]

My suggestion is to look into spirituality, helped me with my existential crises

[mattp]

I think that my problem for a long time is defining a purpose for my life. Also, spirituality has been difficult because of the uncertainity of the correct path. Most religions seem to be an invention of humanity and not always true to observable facts.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by mattp

I think that my problem for a long time is defining a purpose for my life.

I would say that "to be the best you can be", and making the most of your abilities is a good place to start.

We all question our purpose at different times in our lives and that's a good thing because we need to be able to define it for ourselves.

I feel that collectively we are here to develop and evolve. As individuals we have different talents and abilities which first of all, we inherently need to express, and secondly are able to contribute to others. We all have something to offer ourselves and each other, and that's what I think we're here to do. We're here to evolve, express, experience and share.

[Keith]

If you can't see what the point of life is, pursue some things that even vaguely seem like they might contain hints. Volunteer to help at a homeless shelter. Hike through the wilderness. Whatever seems like it might contain hints as to Truth.

Sometimes we can't see a way forward from where we are. But if we move - even if the direction turns out completely wrong - we may have a much better idea view of where we are.

I reckon, anyway.

P.S. ZHereford, your philosophy page seems awefully focussed on western (specifically ancient Greek) philosophy. Do you intend to cover eastern philosophy as well?

[m0vingon]

If you haven't read Man's Search for Meaning by Frankl, it's a memoir of his observations during his time in Auschwitz. Frankl is thought of as a significant contributor to the movement of existential psychology. The book is short, but moving and while it won't help you determine your purpose in life, it will very poignantly point out the importance of having determined your purpose.

Issues of mortality- which you refer to in your post, are key in existential psychology and in life. Everyone comes to that point at some time though most don't get there until they are progressing in age.

I guess if you were my client and I was sitting across from you, my first question would be "Why is it so important to you to know or understand the purpose/meaning of life? And what would you do with your life if you realized that there really is no answer to that query?" Challenging the thought pattern may lead you to new insight.

[Shamou]

Excellent post and very well said m0vingon... very profound insight there...

Man's Search for Meaning by Frankl is one of the most powerful book that I have read... and I think a must read for everyone here...

Thank you for that post...

.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Keith

.....P.S. ZHereford, your philosophy page seems awefully focussed on western (specifically ancient Greek) philosophy. Do you intend to cover eastern philosophy as well?

Western philosophy and civilization pretty much started with the Greeks and I've just begun to write about it on my site. So far I've just covered the big guns - Socrates, Plato and Aristotle but I don't intend on stopping there. I'm working my way down the line throughout the history of philosophy. Down the road I expect to cover some eastern philosophy as well. It's a work in progress and one that's going to take a while.

Thanks for asking.

[Enlightenment]

Hi Mattp,

I can relate to what you are saying.Sometimes things happen to us and we don't know why. You sound intelligent, so I think it is worse for intellectual people because we try to find out why. However, this can be a blessing in disguise. I am sure there are so many people in your situation, or trying to come to grips with whatever tragedy that has happened to them -- for example, people who are permenantly paralysed. Maybe you can help them in some way.

I suggest you read Victor Frankl's 'Man's Search for Meaning'. It is his story of what he went through as a Jew in Auschwitz. His basic premise is that you can survive anything if you can find meaning in it. Not necessarily a positive twist on it, but some reason why it happened. Millions have read his book and benefited from it and because of this, his suffering made a difference... that was the meaning of it all.

Anyway, I wish you luck and God Bless.

[september]

I have a non-Man's Search for Meaning book to recommend. I just finished reading Buddhism Without Beliefs, by Stephen Batchelor. It is short, but powerful, and in the end, uplifting. He redescribes dharma practice not as an orthodoxy, but as a powerful process through which to conduct your life and express/release your anguish. His thoughts on the mystery and wonder of life are indispensible.

He describes a culture of awakening at the end which I see in this community in many ways (albeit imperfect ones).

I am an agnostic atheist or according to (or according to Nica Lalli, I am just nothing), and this book is probably best primed for someone in that position. However, if your spiritual journey is leading you elsewhere, don't be afraid to peruse this book, either. It is very grounded, and no matter what religion you hail from, it will make you consider its purpose further.

Happy seeking.

[ThoughtAddict]

Hey MattP.

The place you are is tough. I've lived there, too. Still go for the occasional vacation. It isn't easy, because there is no pat answer anybody can give you... at least none that feel truly authentic to you. The first step for me to getting out of that place was realizing that nobody can give me the answer. No matter how much I might like to cede control, it was my responsibility and burden to answer it for myself. The realization is similar to something Steve talks about in his first podcast. Though it may seem impossible now, you can get yourself to a place where you can find meaning.

Now, because of that, nothing I say is an answer. The only thing I can give you and the thing so many truly intelligent and thoughtful people have given you on these forums is another way of looking at it. It is your choice to take it or leave it. There may be part of you that wants to hold on to meaninglessness. I understand if you do, though it is a painful path to walk. Some people just find that more authentic. Let me recommend, though, that you make an effort to explore other ways of looking at the world. If they are lacking, then you can take on another. Remember, it is your choice. As Sartre and many other existentialists have said, everyone is "doomed to be free". That freedom is a great burden, but also your largest gift. You are free even to reject that you are free, free to take on another perspective, free to change your life, or free to stay the same.

So, if you want to change (which it sounds like you do) and you're willing to explore different perspectives (it sounds like you are), start looking for new perspectives on meaning. Could the world be a meaningless place with meaninglessness being its most admirable condition? If there is no overarching purpose imposing itself upon us, then we are absolutely free to do whatever we want. We can spend our lives making beautiful cheese sculptures... and that would be perfectly alright. Perhaps personal meaning is what is important. You may feel that there is a certain role a human being ought to fulfill, a way of acting toward other people that you should spend your life fostering and working to encourage. This way of acting doesn't need to be important for another purpose... it may be important just because it is right.

My overarching point is to explore. You might hit on something that works for you. Even if you don't, your understanding will be much richer. And let me recommend a reading that helped me. William James is a pragmatist... pragmatism being a sort of positive existentialism that deals less with the big questions and more with everyday experience. My brother called it "nonalcoholic existentialism", to which a brilliant friend quipped, "You'd rather a drunken philosophy guide your life?" Consider it a new way of looking at the same conclusions. James' "The Will to Believe" confronts the issue you're dealing with. It can be found here: http://falcon.jmu.edu/~omearawm/ph101willtobelieve.html

The best of luck to you in this. Please don't hesitate to reply or PM me if you'd like to discuss this further. It's a tough thing to experience, especially alone.

[Smarky]

Hmm This thread could not have come at a more timely time.

I'm aperson that things a lot about life, I can be pretty deep. A few years back I shared a few thoughts with some people on a forum more as a complete rant at how upset I was and having nowhere else to vent this. Someone refered me to an article on Existential depression, I read about it and It was like a breath of fresh air, finally someone understood!

One of my favorite bands, the lead singer I belive suffers for the same problems, Just from reading things that they have said and as this person is a big inspration for me, I know there soultion is to find a bigger purpose and do something great, to create that meaning. Reading interviews they have given, I can see that now they are much more happy, yet they still have the same ideas and thoughts, they just look at life in a more positive way.

So to me I don't think it's a matter of arguing these points, it's a way of finding higher purpose in life. I suffer greatly still (boy do i, self harm, sucidial etc), so I'm still really struggling with this.

So you really have to find your own purpose and meaning, that is hard because then you have to make that your whole world, when the rest of the world really appears so shallow and will constantly want to drag you into that end of the pool!

To me, personally. I think I find a lot of meaning from others too, My meaning comes from wanting to create something really great and great relationships with others.

Although others are a great huge problem, the world is full of complete idiots and people detirminded to rid the world of any purpose or meaning that I'm searching for. The trouble is you can't trust other people, because you can't control them (and i'm really not saying this because I think we should be able too). But this leaves you with a really big problem if this is how you find a lot of meaning. I really have a big problem knowing or finding how excatly I relate to other people and where I fit in.

I welcome this discussion because these issues are killing me!

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by Smarky

Hmm This thread could not have come at a more timely time.

I'm aperson that things a lot about life, I can be pretty deep. A few years back I shared a few thoughts with some people on a forum more as a complete rant at how upset I was and having nowhere else to vent this. Someone refered me to an article on Existential depression, I read about it and It was like a breath of fresh air, finally someone understood!

One of my favorite bands, the lead singer I belive suffers for the same problems, Just from reading things that they have said and as this person is a big inspration for me, I know there soultion is to find a bigger purpose and do something great, to create that meaning. Reading interviews they have given, I can see that now they are much more happy, yet they still have the same ideas and thoughts, they just look at life in a more positive way.

So to me I don't think it's a matter of arguing these points, it's a way of finding higher purpose in life. I suffer greatly still (boy do i, self harm, sucidial etc), so I'm still really struggling with this.

So you really have to find your own purpose and meaning, that is hard because then you have to make that your whole world, when the rest of the world really appears so shallow and will constantly want to drag you into that end of the pool!

To me, personally. I think I find a lot of meaning from others too, My meaning comes from wanting to create something really great and great relationships with others.

Although others are a great huge problem, the world is full of complete idiots and people detirminded to rid the world of any purpose or meaning that I'm searching for. The trouble is you can't trust other people, because you can't control them (and i'm really not saying this because I think we should be able too). But this leaves you with a really big problem if this is how you find a lot of meaning. I really have a big problem knowing or finding how excatly I relate to other people and where I fit in.

I welcome this discussion because these issues are killing me!

Right on I completely understand.

[beautyscientist]

I don't know what the meaning of life is, but Camus is a good read. I particularly recommend The Foreigner (or the Outsider as it is sometimes translated). I

[Dharma]

Matt,

You have a serious disease, which many people also have.... it's called the mind.

You're searching for purpose in a reality where only the moment exists. You can only experience past and future as mind projections from the present moment.

You want purpose to your life. Purpose, typically, is about the future, not about the present moment.

Definition of purpose: (1) something set up as an object or end to be attained. (You could also call it a goal.)

"To be attained" implies future. You don't have a future, just a present moment. So, in thinking you need a purpose other than what you're doing right now can, yes, can get you depressed. Always looking ahead thinking you should be more than you are.... Everyone else has a purpose and not me... I should be doing great things with my life....

m0vingon is right on with his response:

"Why is it so important to you to know or understand the purpose/meaning of life? And what would you do with your life if you realized that there really is no answer to that query?" Challenging the thought pattern may lead you to new insight.

The mind will get so worried that it feels it doesn't have a direction to flow in. And, by Gods it better be the right direction to flow in too! Because we can do some great self-abuse if we pick the wrong one. So we might as well pick none.

Right now my purpose is to communicate, teach, and see you as a reflection of me. Later today I know it's going to shift to my photographer flow, and tomorrow I get to be a student in a GIS/geospatial technology class. Those last two things are future and they might or might not happen.

If I had a purpose for the moment, what would it be? Something like: I choose to experience more of me and experience flow, ease, space, fire, and joy.

Now I can do that anywhere and anytime in anything I do. Be it healing work, firefighting, photography, backpacking, counseling, or even geospatial technology class.

Eckhart Tolle's "Power of Now" is a good primer for spending more time in the moment and out of the mind. You might want to check it out.

[mattp]

Wow, some really good replies. I have been doing better at just living life since I figured out what has been bothering me. I still get aggravated if something sets me back or seems too much, but I don't dwell on it for days at a time(only hours). So far so good.

Sometimes it is amazing when you look at it how complex the world is. I used to think I wanted to learn everything, but I now know that it isn't necessary. There will always be someone to go to that knows a little more about something or has a different viewpoint that you never thought of.

[Brendon Colby]

Yeah that's pretty much how my life is. I still don't understand it and I still don't feel at peace even though I've read nearly every book mentioned here, spent a lot of time in therapy, done a lot of thinking about it, etc... I seem to spend most of my life in a state of complete unhappiness, dissatisfaction, unrest, anxiety, dread, restlessness. It's like a blow horn in my hears that mostly only I can hear (I know I'm not the only one!). It like an existential funk or black cloud. It follows me everywhere. I don't seem to have a footing in life (but somehow life does seem to work!). Sometimes it feels like I'm trapped in the matrix or a holodeck gone haywire. Life doesn't feel real but where's the exit!? That's what I want to know. Certainly one exit is death, OK, but that seems too obvious, and honestly I have no idea what, if anything, exists after death! So what is REAL? How to I "get out"? Am I just trapped in my mind? Is it a matter of daily meditation practice? I feel that I have so much potential, but this existential business just saps most of it!

[ZHereford]

The only thing existentialism states is that you're responsible for finding meaning and purpose to your life. Is that the part you find difficult?

I know that we all go through questioning times and I think that's part of maturing and coming to terms with who we are. For the most part it's usually a temporary state.

[ThoughtAddict]

Do a thought experiment. Imagine the world is all just an illusion--a dream. However, you can't wake up until you naturally wake up and you can't control exactly when that is. Nothing you do has any meaning outside the dream, since it all vanishes when you wake up. You can spend your time in the dream doing anything you'd like. My ultimate question to you is whether this situation is frustrating or invigorating.

You have a brilliant opportunity in the dream to do whatever you like. Nobody (besides the dream-people, who will vanish when you wake anyway) can tell you that you're wrong to become a world-famous cheese sculptor. Only those transient dream-people can judge you for living how you'd like. You could build a multi-million dollar dream empire or have a sizzling romance. You can fall in love, have kids, go to school, learn a million tiny, beautiful things about the dream world, explore, write great poetry, see beautiful places, live an amazing dream-life...

Or you can be bored and wait to wake up, watching whatever is on dream-TV. You can spend your time worrying about what's happening in this dream-world, or you can live it.

In my experience, boredom, fear, laziness, and depression all have the same solution: action.

[Enlightenment]

Originally Posted by ThoughtAddict