Anger and anxiety

[nistacular]

If you have a bunch of just, general anger, at people, and humanity - do you think there's any way to move forward besides expressing that anger to people? Because I can't seem to make it go away by holding it in.... and I can't legitimately express it on inanimate objects.

Also when you don't release anger, can it manifest itself in anxiety? I feel like this is the source of some of my anxiety problems - I'm holding back my true thoughts/feelings, and feel pressured to behave in certain ways.

Recently there was a post very similar for another member (thank you for that btw), and now I'm going through the same thing.

[Greek Dog]

nistacular - I resonate with your opening post. I spent most of my life filled with such anger and at times rage. In recent years it just seemed to bubble over and I did not seem to be able to control it. And yet in the past year I found that it suddenly had abated. But what was left was a bit of depression and a lot of anxiety.

I have been working for many years to unravel what I will simply refer to as my dysfunction. In the last few years I finally got down to the source. Perhaps I could have accessed it earlier but it was embarrassing to me and I could not quite fully realize that I, as an adult, was still crippled by things that had happened to me as a child and adolescent.

because it was embarrassing to me that I was still plagued by childish things I repressed it and went into a kind of denial. One factor that added to the repression was that I had no one with whom to share my pain. Those closest to me simply denied or ignored it and that added to my sense of shame and doubt about it all.

But the point I am getting to is that once I recognized the source of my pain and I realized that while other humans would deny it of me and not be able to offer me compassion and support or even encouragement that I would have to own it for myself. Taking ownership has been difficult and slow. Not being able to share with others and to receive compassion and empathy left me feeling alienated and isolated. And as rejection and alienation were huge issues and pains for me all of that seemed to tumble in to gather and make things worse.

The bottom line was that I had great reason to be angry but because anger is not well received and because I was not in touch with the source of my anger and because the reason for my anger was actually denied by those who had been witness to the experienced that generated it all fed my denial. As I got in touch with the origins and owned the validity of my anger the rage began to abate and I began to have enough time (a few seconds) to identify what was actually happening and to intervene before I reacted.

Now I am facing the overpowering effects of anxiety that actually undergirded the anger. I am left with that and though it is very, very difficult and debilitating I am able to persevere because I know what the future can bring.

I encourage you to trace the source of your anger and to validate it for yourself. When you experience anger in the present spend time with it and trace it back to some older wounds that made you mad.

This practice released me from some uncontrollable anger in my life and though the anxiety is wretched it is simply a stop along the path to wholeness.

God speed to you in your journey.

[nistacular]

Thanks for your reply. I can relate to childhood experiences that caused trauma resulting in the present mental conditions.... I think in my case it mainly has to do with my brother. I always felt rejected by him and his group of friends. I never built up my own group of friends, I never had anyone that was truly close to me, not even my parents (after a certain number of years). I will work on this as much as I can... I don't wanna be depressed when I see my family for the holidays

[Greek Dog]

You don't have to be depressed for the holiday. That is what is so remarkable about becoming mindful about the source of your anger. As you get in touch with it you become released from the anger, hurt and frustration. You develop a compassion, sort of a sadness about the rejection and compassion for those who were rejecting. It really changes everything and is quite a release and relief.

[nistacular]

But then people misinterpret me... and the anxiety comes back. I believe everything you're saying... and I feel like consciously, I know exactly the way things should be. And yet I'm still stuck.

[Greek Dog]

The anxiety and the anger are actually two separate issues. Both of them are reactions that become neurological patterns. Both of them can be changed. In my experience getting release/relief front he anger (sometimes rage) became the first. I am still working on the anxiety. The anxiety is much more painful and unpleasant for me. Anger would come and be released and then there would be consequences but there were much less omnipresent than the anxiety.

Yes the anxiety is miserable. but the way forward is to be aware of it and to not repress it. This is easy to say and difficult to do.

I encourage you to focus on the anger first.

Do you think that knowing that you will be misinterpreted before you even get there can help you when you experience it to simple acknowledge to yourself that you are indeed experiencing there very thing you expected. then spend some internal time just recognizing the miserable feeling and validating for yourself where it comes from.

By acknowledging to yourself what you are experiencing you are bringing the past (possible unconscious) wounds out into the present. The pain will be felt but that is where the healing comes as well. Talk to yourself as you experience it and provide the comfort for yourself that you need and deserve.

[nistacular]

Just today I've been practicing just letting the feeling come - observing it, and letting it go. I've been able to release emotions like this... but now I'm left feeling depressed. I'm left feeling like no one particularly cares about me, which I'm becoming more okay with... but I don't particularly care about others.

Today I went to go pick up my sim card (from a cell) from a girl I work with who borrowed it... she's even more emotional/anxious than I am. She told me she would be at my apartment in 5 mins. By the way, while writing this, I'm having difficulty keeping up my train of thought... I keep forgetting what I want to say... and I'm trying to just type it literally. My thoughts are so scattered right now.....

I went back to my apartment, and immediately the anxiety started kicking in, because she was coming to my apartment in 5 mins... I started picking up stuff, moving it around, trying to make it look nice. 5 mins passed - my thoughts were "do I have time to eat before she comes?"... but a sort of apathy overtook me, and I gave in... I decided to go eat anyway. But she came to my place like half an hour later. She was on the verge of tears, smoking a cigarette. She told me it helps her with her anxiety problems... - suddenly I was faced with someone who was suffering more than myself, even though I have much unresolved issues. Thing is - since I've been living in somewhat of a shutdown (I'm sure you can relate), I'm used to feeling apathetic... but now I had this urge to care for this girl.... my immediate response, that goes back to my childhood, would be to give her a hug and talk to her about everything and make her feeling better, and really connect. But I realized that whenever I have done that throughout my life, subconsciously I've expected something in return.

Anyway, I acted in the only way I could without wanting anything in return - I voiced every thought I had to her - which wasn't much, and I asked her politely if she wanted a hug. She said yes and started crying even more. Again I felt the urge to say more and comfort her more but I was held back, afraid of getting myself somehow emotionally involved - so I ended up saying very little, and maybe she appreciated that. She told me I was a really good friend and she had to go (her mom was picking her up or something). I was left feeling really calm.... but like I didn't have a personality.

I feel like someone needs to give me a reason to care about people again.

I don't feel like I typed most of those words because I deeply felt them though... I typed them because those are my objective observations of the happenings of today. I feel like that's not truly living. I wish I had more passion. But at least I was able to keep the anxiety away. I wish I could become obsessed with something again - even if I get hurt, that's okay. I've always been very good at shutting down though.... but I wish I could forget how to shut down all together.

[Greek Dog]

I feel with you. My heart is with you and I am lifting you up.

I have found that the shut down is the worst place I could be because it has taken over my life. My entire being is deduced to overcoming the shut-down/avoidance.

The way that I have discovered is to allow the feelings to come and to become mindful of them. the mindfulness does not end the anxiety but it allows me to function IN SPITE of it.

It is VERY difficult at first but I have read and believe that it gets better every day that I am successful at moving forward through it. Being present rather than repressing actually effects the brain circuitry. That is my intention and my goal. I wish it for you as well.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by nistacular

If you have a bunch of just, general anger, at people, and humanity - do you think there's any way to move forward besides expressing that anger to people? Because I can't seem to make it go away by holding it in.... and I can't legitimately express it on inanimate objects.

Also when you don't release anger, can it manifest itself in anxiety? I feel like this is the source of some of my anxiety problems - I'm holding back my true thoughts/feelings, and feel pressured to behave in certain ways.

Recently there was a post very similar for another member (thank you for that btw), and now I'm going through the same thing.

Yup....

[nistacular]

What's that supposed to mean? I mean... to connect with my self esteem is one thing. I can do that. When I'm alone I feel very happy and conscious... but I often get angry or anxious after human interaction.

I feel like I know your perspective... and that of Osho at this point. I feel like I absolutely agree that this perspective is the ultimate path to long term happiness and freedom/maturity.

However.... some part of me actually doesn't want that right now... it's like, all my life I've been so close to participating and actually enjoying the 'ego game' but it's never really happened for me... there have been fleeting moments, weekends, or just afternoons where I've been given this sort of high, because I feel my ego rise due to something I said or did. And people looked up to me/I felt like I was important. So I just want to play the game to see what I'm missing... I feel like if I don't do this, somewhere down the line I'll be facing a midlife crisis or something.

This has to do with anger and anxiety of course, because these are the biproducts of threats to the ego... and I feel like I need them right now. I want to express them... I'm almost ready to give in to them completely and probably make some remark I may or may not regret to someone. I'm so apathetic sometimes, even around the people I care about - it's like I'm on the verge of establishing an ego and I don't want to step down - not after feeling so rejected for a portion of my life.

Also this feels odd, because right now I'm not at all playing the ego game - I'm just kind of speaking literally about myself.... well I guess online I have some exceptions ahaha.

What do think of this decision? I value your opinion

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by nistacular

What's that supposed to mean? I mean... to connect with my self esteem is one thing. I can do that. When I'm alone I feel very happy and conscious... but I often get angry or anxious after human interaction.

That's me except for the angry part....been that way all my life....I see in me a deep sensitivity to others that aren't being themselves....the more authentic a person is, the more relaxed I am, but since most people are posing, I anxious around others.

I feel like I know your perspective... and that of Osho at this point. I feel like I absolutely agree that this perspective is the ultimate path to long term happiness and freedom/maturity.

However.... some part of me actually doesn't want that right now... it's like, all my life I've been so close to participating and actually enjoying the 'ego game' but it's never really happened for me... there have been fleeting moments, weekends, or just afternoons where I've been given this sort of high, because I feel my ego rise due to something I said or did. And people looked up to me/I felt like I was important. So I just want to play the game to see what I'm missing... I feel like if I don't do this, somewhere down the line I'll be facing a midlife crisis or something.

Then go for it, but I have to tell you that the midlife crisis is the ego collapse...when you so screwed up your life with so many entanglements and you've got no way to walk away from your mess. And no good escapes.

But I can tell you that clarity is orgasmic....and it lasts forever, not fleeting like an ego trip.

This has to do with anger and anxiety of course, because these are the biproducts of threats to the ego... and I feel like I need them right now. I want to express them... I'm almost ready to give in to them completely and probably make some remark I may or may not regret to someone. I'm so apathetic sometimes, even around the people I care about - it's like I'm on the verge of establishing an ego and I don't want to step down - not after feeling so rejected for a portion of my life.

Ok, so then you achieve domination...then what? They knocked you down for so long and "fulfillment" seems to be to knock them down. Ok, after that game gets old, then what? Will you be ready to try clarity?

Also this feels odd, because right now I'm not at all playing the ego game - I'm just kind of speaking literally about myself.... well I guess online I have some exceptions ahaha.

What do think of this decision? I value your opinion

You are playing the ego game....what you're asking is advice on how to win it.

I don't have that advice because everyone that plays is a loser.

[nistacular]

Oh LOL sorry I didn't even see the part you bolded so I was a bit confused

edit - now reading your response... thanks btw

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by nistacular

Oh LOL sorry I didn't even see the part you bolded so I was a bit confused

edit - now reading your response... thanks btw

u r welcome, btw

[nistacular]

I feel somewhat lucky to be born with a natural tendency to see people's true self as well... and I almost never got angry until this year - but now I feel like I'm converting that anxiety into anger, which seems to be more healthy in certain ways. It's establishing boundaries at least - but I'll still be able to see right through people, so some in some sense it's just silly....

Damnit Ron, every time I read one of your posts I can't NOT agree with you. Well this is something I will be experimenting with more... I still have an anger inside me though, it goes away most of the time but comes back at random times. I just had a flash of it writing this post because I think I've confused myself. Do you think it's moral to express anger at/towards someone else as a release? Idk what to do with it......

Today I had a really nice bike ride... riding past an area of downtown Detroit with an outdoor ice skating thing set up. Seeing all the couple holding hands, with the Christmas lights out was so wonderful, and made me wish I had a gf and was skating with them.

That inspired me to just have a good attitude, and express love to everyone, which is probably my happiest state of mind. But then later in the night, it went away. How do you keep the consistency?

Also in my first post I wasn't intending to ask for advice about how to win... just about the decision to participate in the first place, given what I wrote.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by nistacular

I feel somewhat lucky to be born with a natural tendency to see people's true self as well... and I almost never got angry until this year - but now I feel like I'm converting that anxiety into anger, which seems to be more healthy in certain ways. It's establishing boundaries at least - but I'll still be able to see right through people, so some in some sense it's just silly....

Try this on for size....

"But why should you try to multiply the things which have given you no happiness? There is no reason for it. What does anger mean? When someone puts obstacles in the path of your desires which you think will bring you pleasure, you get angry. When you are trying to earn money and somebody is creating obstacles for you, then anger will be born. You are wanting to marry a particular woman and someone is putting obstacles in the way, then anger will be born. You were about to win an election when someone decided to stand against you with much noise and sloganeering; then anger will be born. Anger means when someone puts obstacles in the way of your desire.

So anger, greed and attachment are the shadows of desire."

Damnit Ron, every time I read one of your posts I can't NOT agree with you. Well this is something I will be experimenting with more... I still have an anger inside me though, it goes away most of the time but comes back at random times. I just had a flash of it writing this post because I think I've confused myself. Do you think it's moral to express anger at/towards someone else as a release? Idk what to do with it......

No, don't express the anger at someone....release the anger...yell, scream, beat up a pillow, but don't dump it on another person because that person will take it personally and escalate the situation.

Release the anger privately, then confront the person if need be to try to reconcile the issue.

Today I had a really nice bike ride... riding past an area of downtown Detroit with an outdoor ice skating thing set up. Seeing all the couple holding hands, with the Christmas lights out was so wonderful, and made me wish I had a gf and was skating with them.

That inspired me to just have a good attitude, and express love to everyone, which is probably my happiest state of mind. But then later in the night, it went away. How do you keep the consistency?

When you can finally accept yourself as you are and stop judging yourself. Then all this energy being consumed by your self-absorption is free to be shared as loving compassion for yourself and for all.

Also in my first post I wasn't intending to ask for advice about how to win... just about the decision to participate in the first place, given what I wrote.

My brutha, you don't realize that you are already in the ego game, that your depression and confusion are symptoms of the game. You're just tired of losing it to the "happy" egos out there that dominate you.

[Self Exploration]

Originally Posted by nistacular

If you have a bunch of just, general anger, at people, and humanity - do you think there's any way to move forward besides expressing that anger to people? Because I can't seem to make it go away by holding it in.... and I can't legitimately express it on inanimate objects.

Also when you don't release anger, can it manifest itself in anxiety?

Assuming you are convinced with good reason that your anger is just, then the anger has to be released somehow. There are awful ways to do it and there are better ways to do it.

Anxiety if you have given up on anger completely?
Absolutely! Anger is your friend until you unleash it indiscriminately at your over all self. You can be angry at the part of you that lost the keys to the car, not at every aspect or yourself.

If that is what you are doing, it is unjustified.

The subject is vast but this is a summary.

[nistacular]

@Ron
Well, if not expressing anger outright, how do you feel about crying in front of others.... doesn't that also somewhat demand attention, like anger? It forces the other person to show compassion or most likely feel bad. Showing any emotion towards others except maybe love seems to control people...

I've also cried a lot by myself this year... like... once every two weeks. Often times I wish I could have SOMEONE in my life to know the way I feel... and to share this with me and not reject me.

I like that quote about anger.... I think for an unfortunately large part of my life, I'd get angry and then not show it, because I knew it was a weakness of mine. And I'd act like everything was perfectly fine... sigh.

As I look around me, I'm really quite happy compared to so many people... but yet I find myself on this forum haha.... I hope one day I'll have no need

I like what you said about 'happy' egos. Those egos are simply... the most convincing to me or something? Those are the ones that make me jealous I guess. But they're egos none-the-less.

Thanks as usual for the insightful response. It takes a while to absorb what you write

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Greek Dog

I feel with you. My heart is with you and I am lifting you up.

I have found that the shut down is the worst place I could be because it has taken over my life. My entire being is deduced to overcoming the shut-down/avoidance.
The way that I have discovered is to allow the feelings to come and to become mindful of them. the mindfulness does not end the anxiety but it allows me to function IN SPITE of it.

It is VERY difficult at first but I have read and believe that it gets better every day that I am successful at moving forward through it. Being present rather than repressing actually effects the brain circuitry. That is my intention and my goal. I wish it for you as well.

That entire message speaks for me.... My oldest son showed this all since he was a toddler so I know for him and me, this is a characteristic of our mind and sensitivity.

Rather than fight it, we have to find our gifts and limits and stop compromising for the world around us that judges us to be unacceptable. In other words, do what allows you to express yourself and stop trying to do stuff that simply isn't you.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by nistacular

@Ron
Well, if not expressing anger outright, how do you feel about crying in front of others.... doesn't that also somewhat demand attention, like anger? It forces the other person to show compassion or most likely feel bad. Showing any emotion towards others except maybe love seems to control people...

You are only crying and angry BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT BEING YOURSELF. Once you have the clarity needed to KNOW that you will never be happy if you have to propped up others emotionally....once you have that clarity your anger and tears go away and what remains is compassion for those co-dependents. It's a paradox!

I've also cried a lot by myself this year... like... once every two weeks. Often times I wish I could have SOMEONE in my life to know the way I feel... and to share this with me and not reject me.

I went through a couple year phase like that because I saw in my life huge changes that I must make and didn't want to walk through that fire.

I like that quote about anger.... I think for an unfortunately large part of my life, I'd get angry and then not show it, because I knew it was a weakness of mine. And I'd act like everything was perfectly fine... sigh.

That's why you are angry...you created the obstacle and then you hate yourself for being weak.

As I look around me, I'm really quite happy compared to so many people... but yet I find myself on this forum haha.... I hope one day I'll have no need

I like what you said about 'happy' egos. Those egos are simply... the most convincing to me or something? Those are the ones that make me jealous I guess. But they're egos none-the-less.

Yup, but those egos are not happy. They are desperate, greedy, scared...there is never ever a winner in the ego game. Sharp clarity makes you the "winner" in life and the best news is that all of us can be "winners"!

Thanks as usual for the insightful response. It takes a while to absorb what you write

Great!! That means I am not supporting your ego but am appealing to your consciousness...yeah!!

[nistacular]

Ron, I absolutely love how you take my words literally and respond to every point individually. Why? Because that's how I intended to write it... most everyone would simply glance at and try to lump it together in some general meaning and then give their opinion, but in doing so would lose so much of the meaning.... I realize you do this because you want to help me, and for that I'm grateful. <3

Psychology is fascinating... do you think we have an obligation to prop up others egos, because if we don't, they'll feel bad? As you said, you felt anxious around others because you could see through their ego, but yet they still try to take themselves (their ego) so seriously - well what do you do here? Just show them compassion and ignore their ego? When so many relationships, even friendships, are based on ego, it seems like a lonely way to live sometimes... especially at the age of 19!

Also I find many people don't want to be shown compassion - they see it as insulting to their independence/their ego. They want to be feared, not loved. Or at least, they want to be respected for what they offer, and what they offer alone. What do you think of this? Also I'm starting to be more like that... I think at this stage in my life I'd have a hard time accepting someone else's love without feeling awkward.

Also... on this forum honestly I still don't consider myself having participated in the ego game... maybe you're right, throughout my life I've been experimenting with the ego a lot. Of course, to some degree it's unavoidable, considering we all have our own 'style' until we are enlightened... But on this forum, it's a place for openness. Interesting, my problem before, and for much of my life seems to be one of LANGUAGE. I'd actually assume that someone else knew my intentions/what I was talking about when I'd say strange things in combination with facial expressions or gestures.... and it'd just make me look awkward. But if they were as intuitive as I was, they'd know what was going on. Now I'm more careful about language haha - this seems to be quite the necessary life skill.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by nistacular

Ron, I absolutely love how you take my words literally and respond to every point individually. Why? Because that's how I intended to write it... most everyone would simply glance at and try to lump it together in some general meaning and then give their opinion, but in doing so would lose so much of the meaning.... I realize you do this because you want to help me, and for that I'm grateful.

The dirty little secret about me is that I love to learn and share...always been that way. Thanks for noticing! My greatest reward is when my gift of self has been truly received, not just politely listened to. I'm sincerely trying to make a positive difference and when it happens, I feel a tremendous joy! That you reward me with the feedback energizes me to keep sharing!

Psychology is fascinating... do you think we have an obligation to prop up others egos, because if we don't, they'll feel bad? As you said, you felt anxious around others because you could see through their ego, but yet they still try to take themselves (their ego) so seriously - well what do you do here? Just show them compassion and ignore their ego? When so many relationships, even friendships, are based on ego, it seems like a lonely way to live sometimes... especially at the age of 19!

People that live through their egos (almost everyone) are dependent on you for two things. One is that they have to feel superior to you in some way so you can't be making them look bad. The other is similar, you can't be poking their egos in the eye with intelligent perspective. So you're stuck. You can't live a life that they are jealous of and you can't speak your mind. If you want to keep "friends", you have to suck up to them.

Forget it.

Just be yourself. That is your first responsibility in life. You were born a seed of potential with certain gifts and limits in your abilities. To enjoy life, you have to be on the journey towards blooming and you are. Before the seed can sprout and right now you're trying to get the rocks and weeds (egos) out of the soil so you can grow.

Next you need a gardener to water and fertilize you with deep perspective. For me, it's been Osho. A gardener knows how to help a seed grow...the ego friends don't. They are dormant seeds only with an opinion about you and life. Get a gardener and forget the rest.

Also I find many people don't want to be shown compassion - they see it as insulting to their independence/their ego. They want to be feared, not loved. Or at least, they want to be respected for what they offer, and what they offer alone. What do you think of this? Also I'm starting to be more like that... I think at this stage in my life I'd have a hard time accepting someone else's love without feeling awkward.

An ego is pretension where compassion is an expression. An ego is a fake expression while compassion is the real deal. If the egoist knew love, he wouldn't live a fake life.

Love is a higher way of living than ego. The ego doesn't know what to do when love comes into the room. The ego gets uncomfortable. The ego is a habit while love is an experience. Shifting from habit to authentic living is a mind warp....best to stay in the mind, to stay in control, so love gets the cold shoulder.

It's really amazing to watch in people. To see them forget to pretend to be the ego then catch themselves and regain their fake composure.

Also... on this forum honestly I still don't consider myself having participated in the ego game... maybe you're right, throughout my life I've been experimenting with the ego a lot. Of course, to some degree it's unavoidable, considering we all have our own 'style' until we are enlightened... But on this forum, it's a place for openness. Interesting, my problem before, and for much of my life seems to be one of LANGUAGE. I'd actually assume that someone else knew my intentions/what I was talking about when I'd say strange things in combination with facial expressions or gestures.... and it'd just make me look awkward. But if they were as intuitive as I was, they'd know what was going on. Now I'm more careful about language haha - this seems to be quite the necessary life skill.

The written word is difficult because it lacks the energy of what is "spoken". That's why we have these...

On top of that, someone lost in ego hears one thing and someone that realizes beyond ego reads something else. The egoist projects his ego into your words, makes assumptions, then treats you like the assumptions are true.

The heart centered person also projects but doesn't assume, rather he asks if his assumption is true.

This is because it is realized that words have different meanings to different people. We can't help project our meanings onto the words of the other because all the words are in our memory associated with our thoughts and experiences. Language can't convey the speaker's experiences. He can only hope to draw out a similar experience in the one listening. If the listener has never experienced what is being shared then it's just an idea and nothing more.

And to go off on a tangent, dogmas repeat and repeat ideas that we never can experience and make those ideas into habitual thought and that creates a mental prison. Once those ideas are turned into a habit, we think we know not realizing that we never experienced what we think, therefore we don't really know.

To see this sets you free from institutions that rely on habitual thoughts to mold you and steer you in a direction favorable to the institution. It is THE source of evil in the world.

[RonSouther]

come over to here....looks like a similar place to this forum....
Forums at Psych Central

[nistacular]

Today I tried to play the ego game, and at first I was talking a lot, sort of knowing ahead of time how people would react.... but then halfway through (we were visiting my brother's gf's family) I sort of got quiet because I suddenly felt awkward. Like "what the hell are you doing, you know this isn't you". But I guess I'm unsatisfied with myself around others... so I decide to play this BS game.

What I feel like is my main problem: I take everything personally. No one wants to get close to a guy who takes everything personally. If I was female I feel this wouldn't be as much of a problem (it would still be a problem, but in terms of chances that a romantic partner would find said person date-able, the female who takes things personally has better chances almost guaranteed). I wish I wasn't like this. And I take things personally that I know aren't even meant to be personal. But know one knows "me", so they have never known how to treat me. Because I try to act normally as if nothing is wrong, or I somehow lower my state of consciousness to fit in better. I just want to be happy, accepted into society. I'm a very loving person, but no one is able to love me it seems. My humanity is defined by others... but people can't seem to see me for who I think I am. By this concept http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(philosophy) - basically I am a person through other people.

Also one question - do you think you're born with a static 'self love' - or one that can be increased or decreased throughout your life? And do you think people's capacity to love differs vastly in ways that aren't changeable - ex- genetics? Because I think this is one reason I've always been jealous of my brother - he just seems to have more confidence, literally MORE to give than I do. I know I can be just as happy as he is but the key is - it doesn't seem like I can be just as happy WHILE making others happy. Is this just a personality difference - introversion vs extroversion?

Also I have a theory - people are naturally FAR more introverted than they let on, but most people out of habit have been treating people as if they're not people (the US is the absolute WORST in this way - probably the most ego-obsessed country in the world).... I think in places like Russia and maybe China/Korea - their culture often is more genuine in respecting people as people. In Russia they aren't... friendly.. all the time. But when they speak, they usually speak from the heart, and it's just understood that there is an actual connection that happens. I RARELY feel this connection anymore. I think this is why I want to move somewhere else when I am older - maybe Europe somewhere or even Russia (for some reason I really like Russia as well as every Russian person I've met).

I just... don't feel 'whole' right now. There is no person close to me that understands everything about me. I feel like I'm missing out... I want real intimacy. Do you think I should talk to someone like a psychologist/therapist and just completely open up to him? Because no one understands what I hold inside and I don't want to let out my emotions that others will reject.

[nistacular]

also sorry sometimes I feel like I rely on you or others for reassurance, it's almost embarrassing. If you're going to say the same that you have said, you don't have to reply to those certain points... I understand what I have to do, I guess I just am not to the point where I can do that.

EDIT - I will for sure want some place to go after this place goes away so ya maybe I'll go over there once this is gone. Unless you want to continue this convo over there for now. Thanks for the link

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by nistacular

Today I tried to play the ego game, and at first I was talking a lot, sort of knowing ahead of time how people would react.... but then halfway through (we were visiting my brother's gf's family) I sort of got quiet because I suddenly felt awkward. Like "what the hell are you doing, you know this isn't you". But I guess I'm unsatisfied with myself around others... so I decide to play this BS game.

It's very good that you try and "watch". That's truly how we learn!

Because I try to act normally as if nothing is wrong, or I somehow lower my state of consciousness to fit in better. I just want to be happy, accepted into society. I'm a very loving person, but no one is able to love me it seems.

You answer your own question....you can't lower your consciousness to fit in...but your self image is that you are below society because you don't fit in.

That's your contradiction.

You KNOW that you are more consciousness, but you judge yourself to be unworthy. That confusion is your misery. And this realization is the one that allowed me to finally accept me totally as I am and no longer did the opinions of others define me.

My humanity is defined by others... but people can't seem to see me for who I think I am. By this concept http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(philosophy) - basically I am a person through other people.

That's what ego is!!

Also one question - do you think you're born with a static 'self love' - or one that can be increased or decreased throughout your life? And do you think people's capacity to love differs vastly in ways that aren't changeable - ex- genetics? Because I think this is one reason I've always been jealous of my brother - he just seems to have more confidence, literally MORE to give than I do. I know I can be just as happy as he is but the key is - it doesn't seem like I can be just as happy WHILE making others happy. Is this just a personality difference - introversion vs extroversion?

You can't be another's happiness and you know that no one can be your's. And if you stop being another's crutch, you get crucified.

To authentically be you is your only chance at joy, and guarantees that you will be rejected by most of the society around you. But who cares? They are ego maniacs and don't love your or themselves anyhow.

We are innately loving when we are not self-absorbed in confusion.

I just... don't feel 'whole' right now. There is no person close to me that understands everything about me. I feel like I'm missing out... I want real intimacy. Do you think I should talk to someone like a psychologist/therapist and just completely open up to him? Because no one understands what I hold inside and I don't want to let out my emotions that others will reject.

You won't feel whole until you're not confused.

Don't waste your money on a shrink....the beginning of self-healing is that you express yourself. It doesn't matter if it's to a shrink or online or with a friend. It's the expression of self that is healing, not the shrink.

The emotions you can let out alone. Beat up a pillow, have a good cry, run some sprints up a hill. Just getting to know you on this forum, I can hear a much "clearer" mind than before, right? Reread some of your old posts and see if you still feel the same way, or do you feel a bit sharper now?

I understand you only because I know the feeling of being confused. This stuff is like clockwork because the mind is a process. Screw with the process and you get these typical results. Screw the process up by turning beliefs about self and life into mental habits and this is what you get....all-day and all-night confusion.

To get a whole mind, you have to see this exploitation allowing you to stop these beliefs from running your life. Your negative self image belief system is running your life.

Did I tell this quote of mine?

"Stupid" JUDGES "Intelligent" to be "Retarded".

Tell me if that defines your problem socially?

I post a quotes page today...stuff I came up with somehow... Quotes About Confusion - Taking You To Clarity - Profound-Self-Help.com

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by nistacular

also sorry sometimes I feel like I rely on you or others for reassurance, it's almost embarrassing. If you're going to say the same that you have said, you don't have to reply to those certain points... I understand what I have to do, I guess I just am not to the point where I can do that.

EDIT - I will for sure want some place to go after this place goes away so ya maybe I'll go over there once this is gone. Unless you want to continue this convo over there for now. Thanks for the link

post questions on my site if you want? I would love to carry on this conversation there.

[nistacular]

Do you think emotions have the ability to temporarily confuse even the most enlightened, clear thinkers? Also what role do emotions have in a clear thinker's life? Do they simply, CHOOSE to become 'addicted' to something just for amusement/as a form of expression? I mean you gotta give some meaning to your life right? I'm asking these questions... because I feel like once upon a time I was very close to content... I'm actually one of the only people I know to have found this contentment, so sometimes I feel like I keep returning to it.... I'm the most intuitive person I know (in person ).

Also I have this habit that probably stems from the fact that I used to feel very at ease.... I keep having pity on people, or trying to be a crutch for them, as soon as they express discontentment. Or I give them logical solutions to stuff... How do I stop having pity on people? I find this situation to be almost amusing now - this girl came to my apartment in tears, clearly incredibly distraught, and I guess assumed that I was the normal 'dick' guy who would want to use her - and so she said something like "sorry, you probably find me annoying right now" or something, trying to keep her distance... and the part that bothered me the most about it is that she herself is very intuitive, perhaps more so than myself. My only thought was "DO YOU THINK I CAN'T SEE THAT YOU'RE SUFFERING RIGHT NOW, PLEASE LET ME DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING TO HELP YOU". But I didn't know how! All I could do is ask for a hug and give it... because she wasn't going to open up to me, or do anything else.... But how do you deal with feelings of pity? And she's also confused... she's super intuitive but it's like she doesn't know it, so she pretends her intuition is her own delusions... I think I do that to some degree maybe.

I think you're right, as I talk to you I feel more alive than before haha... but alas you're on the internet and it's hard to express anything authentically. I'm probably never going to see you. But you're there. A human like all of us. Just happen to be more enlightened than most of us lol.

Where should I post on your site?

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by nistacular

Do you think emotions have the ability to temporarily confuse even the most enlightened, clear thinkers?

No, once you can see the mind as a process then the confusion is gone. Emotions come and go but no longer define you. You can even use emotions intentionally to create an impact while inside you're detached from the emotion. In others words, the emotion can be used as a tool to move people, not in a selfish way, but in a way that helps them learn.

Also what role do emotions have in a clear thinker's life? Do they simply, CHOOSE to become 'addicted' to something just for amusement/as a form of expression? I mean you gotta give some meaning to your life right? I'm asking these questions... because I feel like once upon a time I was very close to content... I'm actually one of the only people I know to have found this contentment, so sometimes I feel like I keep returning to it.... I'm the most intuitive person I know (in person ).

Addictions are the escape mechanism for mental confusion. With clarity, addictions aren't needed and a silent simplicity is enjoyed in life.

Also I have this habit that probably stems from the fact that I used to feel very at ease.... I keep having pity on people, or trying to be a crutch for them, as soon as they express discontentment. Or I give them logical solutions to stuff... How do I stop having pity on people?

Pity is a superiority thing and I doubt that's what you're really saying. It sounds more like you're compassionate and why stop that? It sounds like you're trying to be a "light" to them. That's great!

Pity is a whole different animal. With pity, on the outside you're saying all the right stuff, but on the inside you're comparing you to them and feeling good that your life doesn't suck as bad as their's.

With compassion, there's no comparison, no judgment.

I find this situation to be almost amusing now - this girl came to my apartment in tears, clearly incredibly distraught, and I guess assumed that I was the normal 'dick' guy who would want to use her - and so she said something like "sorry, you probably find me annoying right now" or something, trying to keep her distance... and the part that bothered me the most about it is that she herself is very intuitive, perhaps more so than myself. My only thought was "DO YOU THINK I CAN'T SEE THAT YOU'RE SUFFERING RIGHT NOW, PLEASE LET ME DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING TO HELP YOU". But I didn't know how! All I could do is ask for a hug and give it... because she wasn't going to open up to me, or do anything else.... But how do you deal with feelings of pity? And she's also confused... she's super intuitive but it's like she doesn't know it, so she pretends her intuition is her own delusions... I think I do that to some degree maybe.

The only thing to do is to be an openminded listener. Just let her express herself. She will self heal from getting her emotions out. If it leads to hugs and stuff, great, but it starts with releasing emotions.

I think you're right, as I talk to you I feel more alive than before haha... but alas you're on the internet and it's hard to express anything authentically. I'm probably never going to see you. But you're there. A human like all of us. Just happen to be more enlightened than most of us lol.

Thanks....everything I type I have lived or am living. What I love about these forums is that the "beings" share. All the superficial stuff is absent on the message boards...I don't know your social status, your looks, your race, your religion, your education, etc.... And you don't know mine. Just a couple of humans relating!

And I don't have a clue what enlightenment is! All I know is about clarity.

Where should I post on your site?

Nearly every page has a form near the bottom of the page where you can share your stories, feelings and insights. So if you're reading something that resonates with you, while it's fresh, types some insights or stories in that moment. Don't worry about typos or anything. The important this is to express yourself while it's alive in you.

Then I get notified that you've submitted something and I will cross the t's and dot the i's as needed, if needed. In other words, don't make a big deal out of it....the real message is your authenticity and not your syntax. Let's keep it real and others will benefit from our real life experiences and a-ha's!