If i had the guts, i'd kill myself!!

[AngelPsychic444]

I have a question for RonSouther.

In your post up above you said:

To realize that joy in life is way beyond the scope of the mind, that the mind is a witness to the world through the five senses and which of the five senses is the joy detector? It ain't there! The mind is asked to do a job it can't handle and it's greedy taking us on the wrong path time and time again.

With this realization, that joy is beyond the scope of the mind, how does a person take practical steps to realign their lives with joy? You stated that we take the wrong path time and time again (and I agree with you), so how does the average person make positive steps in the RIGHT direction?

I only ask this so all your advice, which is really great, can be used by an average person to move into a place of the heart, as you said in your post, and to help get out of their minds.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by AngelPsychic444

I have a question for RonSouther.

In your post up above you said:

With this realization, that joy is beyond the scope of the mind, how does a person take practical steps to realign their lives with joy? You stated that we take the wrong path time and time again (and I agree with you), so how does the average person make positive steps in the RIGHT direction?

I only ask this so all your advice, which is really great, can be used by an average person to move into a place of the heart, as you said in your post, and to help get out of their minds.

Thanks....this is a really HARD topic because it has to be lived. It's not a recipe like making a cake, putting the ingredients together and, presto! Out comes a cake. In hindsight it is that way but only in hindsight. In hindsight, the path out of confusion can be seen.

The path that I see is the one of living from ego/logic/mind, thinking one can control life, getting so entangled in a life that he created (financially, kids), then still realizing that not only is he still not happy, still not relaxed, that now he's stuck. He can't buy anymore happiness and his current life is getting harder and harder. No more escapes, now into depression as his ideas of life collapse. He built a life on beliefs yet he can't walk away from what he created.

To me this is the midlife crisis.

This is just one scenario but the common thread is simply that one gets in so deep, can't buy anymore happiness and can't leave whatever he created.

This ego collapse can involve drug and alcohol addiction, sex addiction, gambling addiction. The point is that between the beliefs and the addictions, there was enough relief and enough hope to keep the house of cards standing.

But one day a strong enough wind or storm, depending on whether his cards are made form tissue or from concrete (like a fanatical believer), those cards are coming down. Truth always self corrects illusions. The truth of how life really is always, always, always destroys fictions. Now whether the person realizes this is another story!

In this realm, we truly have to fail in order to succeed. That's why it's not a recipe like the cake. Most all of us are raised to live from logic and that logic has to fail us badly before we can no longer trust it anymore. Living from logic creates a closed mind and the moment we don't trust our logic, our mind opens up out of fear of the unknown. THAT is the moment where the journey to self begins IF we don't merely latch onto a new belief system. If we can tap into a source of true perspective that helps us lift the fog of confusion, finally we can grow free of a life of guessing logically and replace it with a true knowing.

So I don't know how to teach someone to travel this path. First that person has to collapse mentally, then he's ready for perspective, and not before. Before the collapse, his mind will reject anything that contradicts his habitual thinking, his belief system.

It is the meaning of "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

All the pop psych is a mind game...something that the mind won't reject...something that will strenghten it's grip on your life but in a fresh way. It never lasts because it's still logic driven and life isn't logical at all.

[AngelPsychic444]

Ron,
I agree with what you said, but I had hoped you would include more about "getting out of your mind". Anyway, to keep this short, in the Conversation with God books Neale Donald Walsch the author, had an ego collapse, at the beginning of the first book (he was contemplating suicide). And he then decided to write an angry letter to God, ..... God answered him in a form of Neale writing a question and then God helping Neale to write down an answer to that question, sort of like having a telepathic conversation but in a more practical way, since this whole thing was written down. Anyone can do this by the way, you need no special powers, just willingness to stay open enough to have this conversation.

So anyone reading this thread of post's and if you feel as if you're at the end of your rope, or life is just not working for you, then the Conversation with God books could be the answer you're looking for.

Also, God goes over how to "get out of your mind" in these books and does give easy ways to achieve this, which as Ron already said, causes much of our grief, since the mind can only go so far and won't bring you true joy or happiness.

Anyway... I found many, many answers in these books, and I'm sure other's can too!

So this is my short answer and also my solution for anyone seeking one.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by AngelPsychic444

Ron,
I agree with what you said, but I had hoped you would include more about "getting out of your mind".

So this is my short answer and also my solution for anyone seeking one.

For me, I've been consuming Osho books for 2 and a half years. The guy spoke on this stuff for 35 years and his work at one time filled 600 books of transcripts of his talks.

Every talk is in some way about the mind, the ego, mental conditionings, and so on.

In other words, he's already travelled the path and he's unbelievably articulate using common language to point to spiritual truths.

No beliefs required, in fact, he will shred them, setting you free to live from your heart and using your mind as a tool and no longer as a confused master.

But my readiness to "hear" him happened as a result of my ego collapse.

[AngelPsychic444]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

For me, I've been consuming Osho books for 2 and a half years. The guy spoke on this stuff for 35 years and his work at one time filled 600 books of transcripts of his talks.

Every talk is in some way about the mind, the ego, mental conditionings, and so on.

In other words, he's already travelled the path and he's unbelievably articulate using common language to point to spiritual truths.

No beliefs required, in fact, he will shred them, setting you free to live from your heart and using your mind as a tool and no longer as a confused master.

But my readiness to "hear" him happened as a result of my ego collapse.

I am familar with Osho, he did write some good books. His trek through america was an interesting one! I think you could love the Conversation with God books, the truths in them are very deep, I hope you get a chance to check them out!

[straysweeper]

MyLifeSucks, to give you something more on this. Anthony Robbins uses the metaphor that when your blueprint of life doesn't equal reality you have suffering. This is where you tend to think you know what is best for you more than "God" and you have to have life be a certain idealized way in order to be happy.

What I'm gettng myself from Zen and Tao and other sources is how skewed our US thinking can be. Life is being lived via experience not us controlling it. We can direct things, but ultimately it is an experience. There is only now. The past is only reference material. The future is an illusion or dream.

You are a janitor, cleaning up peoples messes isn't a bad way of looking at the current financial market. How could you add value with to others with what you know and can do?

A side thing I like to think is that God wants to humble us, those he has big plans for. If you try to decide everything of where your life will take you, you will miss out on the unexpected and random experience and opportunities you can never conceive of. And its within the the unknown where life really is.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by AngelPsychic444

I am familar with Osho, he did write some good books. His trek through america was an interesting one! I think you could love the Conversation with God books, the truths in them are very deep, I hope you get a chance to check them out!

I checked Conversations with God out about 6 months ago, but for me, it's not my style. Osho was the match for me. So I've come to see that we have to find what works for us, that there are different paths up the mountain with different mountain guides.

Truth is one, paths are many and a true guide takes you to truth and not to him.

Also, for me, I personally feel "God's" presence as "Creativity" and that creativity is found in me and through me as I create. I feel that oneness so any path that characterizes God as separate (and I can't remember exactly the tone of Conversations with God, just speaking in general) doesn't fit with me. I get hung up on the separateness of that tone.

[AngelPsychic444]

Also, for me, I personally feel "God's" presence as "Creativity" and that creativity is found in me and through me as I create. I feel that oneness so any path that characterizes God as separate (and I can't remember exactly the tone of Conversations with God, just speaking in general) doesn't fit with me. I get hung up on the separateness of that tone.

I think you jumped too quick with the CWG books, if anything, they speak of Oneness more in those books not separateness. Unity conscousness is a huge theme in those books, in fact, Neale states he finally understood what that was in real terms from talking to God. So I feel bad for you if you only got seperateness from what was said in the CWG books!.

They also talk, in a few different volumnes of the CWG series about "getting out of your mind", which is a difficult premise for many to accept. I finally understood what that was and "gained clarity" from those books. God does an amazing job of convincing Neale how important getting out of your mind is, and even just "being quiet" with oneself.

There's so much there Ron you're not seeing, if you ever have a chance I would give it another go. Ohso is good, no doubt about that, BUT the CWG books are amazingly practical and make it somewhat easy to apply to our own lives, which is so needed now, practical ways to make our life work.

As I said in my other post, Neale had his ego collapse, he was on the brink of killing himself, and had also been homeless and lost just about everything in his life, so when he reached rock bottom he started his conversation...and the only place he could go was up, the first 4 books in the series cover this. He 4th book "Friendship with God" is another very warm story of how to develop a closeness with God that goes beyond any other book I have ever seen. Those books were an amazingly eye-opening story for me, I think too many people have problems with actually talking to God, and God even goes over that one too, and tries to make it much easier for Neale.

[RonSouther]

It's just the format. I am not speaking against the message. The style doesn't work for me. When I read, if my mind twists up in a knot, I am done. If my mind relaxes, I keep going. That's all. I can't speak truly about CWG because I read almost nothing. It's just not my style. Many paths, one truth.....the need is to be on a path, not a particular one.

Originally Posted by AngelPsychic444

I think you jumped too quick with the CWG books, if anything, they speak of Oneness more in those books not separateness. Unity conscousness is a huge theme in those books, in fact, Neale states he finally understood what that was in real terms from talking to God. So I feel bad for you if you only got seperateness from what was said in the CWG books!.

They also talk, in a few different volumnes of the CWG series about "getting out of your mind", which is a difficult premise for many to accept. I finally understood what that was and "gained clarity" from those books. God does an amazing job of convincing Neale how important getting out of your mind is, and even just "being quiet" with oneself.

There's so much there Ron you're not seeing, if you ever have a chance I would give it another go. Ohso is good, no doubt about that, BUT the CWG books are amazingly practical and make it somewhat easy to apply to our own lives, which is so needed now, practical ways to make our life work.

As I said in my other post, Neale had his ego collapse, he was on the brink of killing himself, and had also been homeless and lost just about everything in his life, so when he reached rock bottom he started his conversation...and the only place he could go was up, the first 4 books in the series cover this. He 4th book "Friendship with God" is another very warm story of how to develop a closeness with God that goes beyond any other book I have ever seen. Those books were an amazingly eye-opening story for me, I think too many people have problems with actually talking to God, and God even goes over that one too, and tries to make it much easier for Neale.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by straysweeper

A side thing I like to think is that God wants to humble us, those he has big plans for. If you try to decide everything of where your life will take you, you will miss out on the unexpected and random experience and opportunities you can never conceive of. And its within the the unknown where life really is.

To me, our true nature is God's Will, and to live in ego is Human Will which I think is another way of saying what you said.

Human Will is a mental illness that can be cured, thereby allowing God's Will.

[FelineNostalgia]

I just wanted to thank the people who posted in this thread, I'm in a pretty agonising place also. It's nice to read intelligent positive posts like this.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by FelineNostalgia

I just wanted to thank the people who posted in this thread, I'm in a pretty agonising place also. It's nice to read intelligent positive posts like this.

Can you share it in a new thread?

[FelineNostalgia]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

Can you share it in a new thread?

I've tried with a few things I'm bothered about, but I have trouble maybe organising my thoughts on it and consequently little or no one replies possibly because they haven't a clue what I'm talking about. Thank you for the suggestion though how lovely! Even reading through a lot of replies to threads like this does help, particularly yours and angel physics! :-D

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by FelineNostalgia

I've tried with a few things I'm bothered about, but I have trouble maybe organising my thoughts on it and consequently little or no one replies possibly because they haven't a clue what I'm talking about. Thank you for the suggestion though how lovely! Even reading through a lot of replies to threads like this does help, particularly yours and angel physics! :-D

Try again and let me know...ok? I actually search for the threads that have few or no replies...

[FelineNostalgia]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

Try again and let me know...ok? I actually search for the threads that have few or no replies...

Aw you don't need to do that , I would feel dirty talking about it , it's strange but thank you

[ZephyrusX]

I agree with Ron. If you are able to articulate your self, join in! You can add meaningfully to the conversation and help those of us participating out. Even if it is just sharing your circumstance and/or life with us. Of course, you don't have to if you don't want to.

I like the positive posts in this thread too.

Originally Posted by FelineNostalgia

I just wanted to thank the people who posted in this thread, I'm in a pretty agonising place also. It's nice to read intelligent positive posts like this.

[MyLifeSucks]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

For me, I've been consuming Osho books for 2 and a half years. The guy spoke on this stuff for 35 years and his work at one time filled 600 books of transcripts of his talks.

Every talk is in some way about the mind, the ego, mental conditionings, and so on.

In other words, he's already travelled the path and he's unbelievably articulate using common language to point to spiritual truths.

No beliefs required, in fact, he will shred them, setting you free to live from your heart and using your mind as a tool and no longer as a confused master.

But my readiness to "hear" him happened as a result of my ego collapse.

One of he most difficult things for me to do is stop relying on logic. IT's as if I don't have faith in any other way of thinking. I don't have the confidence. I'm afraid if I don't use logic, life will collapse but my logic is the very reason why I created this thread..........go figure.

[MyLifeSucks]

I certainly understand and appreciate your remarks but once you mentioned Tony Robbins you lost me, not to mention your idea of what "God" is or does.

This is not about religious beliefs. As Ron stated it's a path, the path to clarity. For me, it's much deeper the what "God" wants for me. That's not my way of thinking.

Originally Posted by straysweeper

MyLifeSucks, to give you something more on this. Anthony Robbins uses the metaphor that when your blueprint of life doesn't equal reality you have suffering. This is where you tend to think you know what is best for you more than "God" and you have to have life be a certain idealized way in order to be happy.

What I'm gettng myself from Zen and Tao and other sources is how skewed our US thinking can be. Life is being lived via experience not us controlling it. We can direct things, but ultimately it is an experience. There is only now. The past is only reference material. The future is an illusion or dream.

You are a janitor, cleaning up peoples messes isn't a bad way of looking at the current financial market. How could you add value with to others with what you know and can do?

A side thing I like to think is that God wants to humble us, those he has big plans for. If you try to decide everything of where your life will take you, you will miss out on the unexpected and random experience and opportunities you can never conceive of. And its within the the unknown where life really is.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by MyLifeSucks

One of he most difficult things for me to do is stop relying on logic. IT's as if I don't have faith in any other way of thinking. I don't have the confidence. I'm afraid if I don't use logic, life will collapse but my logic is the very reason why I created this thread..........go figure.

YES!!!! I know exactly what you are saying AND I can't reply right now....sorry...

But real quick....did life exist before you were born? Before you "took" control? Will it exist after you die?

Yup.....you can trust that life in running the show, not your ideas or mine about life.

That is an awesome "witness"...thanks for sharing that...