Fear Self Help!

[RonSouther]

Just posted this article on Fear Self Help.

Fear Self Help - Why Am I Afraid of Living - Profound-Self-Help.com

Hope it helps shed some light on the kind of fear that stops us from living. Please be sure to share your comments and stories at the bottom of the page if you want. This is obviously a huge topic for most of us.

I was a pro at living in fear, so much so that I spent 10 years fighting irritable bowel syndrome. I will be posting that story when I can get to it. But it was all fear driven in my mind.

[Manuel]

I've read the article.

First of all, saying that emotions are not reality is a weird statement. What do you consider "real"? If I FEEL fear then that is a very real thing to me. Feelings ARE real, if you ask me, because you can be AWARE of them.

I agree about the part that says you don't try some things for fear of not liking yourself if you fail.
But this part:

"There will be a lot of fear at first when you face your fears of failure. You have to step into these fears and find out that you will learn and grow! That the sky didn't fall!
These emotions the mind gives you are NOT real because the danger is not real! As you begin to experience the true learning process then it becomes easier and easier to step into the unknown.
You will become an explorer, and fear will be replaced by joy as life reveals it's treasures to you! "

simply doesn't work like that for me. I HAVE pushed myself to do certain things I didn't want to do and was afraid because not only did I THINK I was going to fail, I was pretty much 100% certain I wouldn't do it very well! And I did it anyway, I faced my fears, and I only hated myself more after having done it, not less.

I disagree that fear is always about illusions. I also fear fear ITSELF! I hate having to FEEL fear in the first place, so whenever I have to do something that I KNOW will make me afraid (and this is not a belief, but something that I KNOW from having done the thing many times before) I don't want to do it. Realizing the fact that facing my fears is a growth experience is not enough for me! I hate myself for being nervous in the first place, regardless of whether I learn something or not, that is irrelevant. I feel inferior for having to be so nervous doing certain things. I think it is pathetic. You do not address this problem in your post.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Manuel

I've read the article.

First of all, saying that emotions are not reality is a weird statement. What do you consider "real"? If I FEEL fear then that is a very real thing to me. Feelings ARE real, if you ask me, because you can be AWARE of them.

What I mean by "real" is whether the fear is valid...like the "house on fire" example. To me, to IMAGINE something then get fearful of it and alter your life because of it, is not real.

I did that and it created my irritable bowel syndrome....it was all mental and it really hurt my quality of life. I feel like I lost 10 years of enjoyment in life. And the fix was mental. I learned to interrupt those thoughts and in a few days, the symptoms left me for good. That was 8 years ago.

I agree about the part that says you don't try some things for fear of not liking yourself if you fail.
But this part:

"There will be a lot of fear at first when you face your fears of failure. You have to step into these fears and find out that you will learn and grow! That the sky didn't fall!
These emotions the mind gives you are NOT real because the danger is not real! As you begin to experience the true learning process then it becomes easier and easier to step into the unknown.
You will become an explorer, and fear will be replaced by joy as life reveals it's treasures to you! "

simply doesn't work like that for me. I HAVE pushed myself to do certain things I didn't want to do and was afraid because not only did I THINK I was going to fail, I was pretty much 100% certain I wouldn't do it very well! And I did it anyway, I faced my fears, and I only hated myself more after having done it, not less.

But are you still afraid? The point was not that facing your fears leads to success. No, life isn't like that. We have to fail in order to learn what it is we don't know.

The point is that in hindsight all too often we reflect, thinking "why didn't I do this sooner?" You forced yourself to do something you didn't want to do so I doubt you would say "why didn't I do this sooner?" if I'm reading your message correctly. But I'm talking about stuff you want to do, but are afraid to do it.

I disagree that fear is always about illusions. I also fear fear ITSELF! I hate having to FEEL fear in the first place, so whenever I have to do something that I KNOW will make me afraid (and this is not a belief, but something that I KNOW from having done the thing many times before) I don't want to do it. Realizing the fact that facing my fears is a growth experience is not enough for me! I hate myself for being nervous in the first place, regardless of whether I learn something or not, that is irrelevant. I feel inferior for having to be so nervous doing certain things. I think it is pathetic. You do not address this problem in your post.

I address that in other places....this IS all mental. You're self loathing and judgment is you comparing yourself to some standard that isn't achievable, instead of witnessing your gifts and your limits and living within them.

Help Low Self Esteem - Profound-Self-Help.com

How to "Build Confidence" Profound-Self-Help.com

The Ego - What is it? Profound-Self-Help.com

With mental confusion, you spend most of your life in your mind, in your logic, trying to solve your problems. With so much time spent thinking and not living, you think you are your thoughts and that the thoughts are real. Right?

I don't know how to say it in words, but truly living is not from logic, but from your true longings and talents, expressing yourself to the world, not living in fear, afraid to live.

There's a paradox in here and that's why my statements on fear sound weird. A life in the mind is a life of greed. A life in the heart is a life of sharing. Again, that's the paradox of life.

Find out who you are and you won't be able to judge such a beautiful existence in yourself and in others. Your judgment will turn into compassion for self and for all.

Please read this quote and hold it tight....keep it close. The day that each statement reflects your reality, know that you've shifted from logic to heart, from judgment to compassion. Until then, keep searching...

"Letting Go"...A Beautiful Quote and The Heart of Profound-Self-Help.com

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

But are you still afraid? The point was not that facing your fears leads to success. No, life isn't like that. We have to fail in order to learn what it is we don't know.

The point is that in hindsight all too often we reflect, thinking "why didn't I do this sooner?" You forced yourself to do something you didn't want to do so I doubt you would say "why didn't I do this sooner?" if I'm reading your message correctly. But I'm talking about stuff you want to do, but are afraid to do it.

Yes, I AM still afraid. When I said I "didn't want to do it" what I meant was that I really DO want to do it, but since I knew that actually DOING it would make me feel bad, I didn't want to feel those bad feelings. That's what I meant, but I DO want to be able to do the activity (which, if you're curious, is performing guitar onstage. I have huge stage fright and consequently play much worse onstage than I do in private. And not only that, but I don't ENJOY performing for people because i'm much too self-conscious when performing.) And what I'm saying is that forcing myself to do it, doesn't make me feel better about myself, everytime I go onstage and play badly I feel WORSE about myself, not better.

Originally Posted by RonSouther

I address that in other places....this IS all mental. You're self loathing and judgment is you comparing yourself to some standard that isn't achievable, instead of witnessing your gifts and your limits and living within them.

How do you know what standard I hold myself to? It's fine to say I should just accept my limits and live within them, but I'm telling you I am not just "somewhat" anxious. I am SO nervous in certain situations that I "cannot function well enough to do the job"! That is not acceptable to me. How can I accept being this nervous when I mess up my performances onstage, and feel lousy and totally self-conscious while performing so that I am not even ENJOYING what I know I WOULD enjoy if I just weren't so god damn nervous? What part of this is so acceptable? I truly don't get it, sorry.

Originally Posted by RonSouther

With mental confusion, you spend most of your life in your mind, in your logic, trying to solve your problems. With so much time spent thinking and not living, you think you are your thoughts and that the thoughts are real. Right?

Well, I would say my problems are not my thoughts, but how I FEEL.

Originally Posted by RonSouther

I don't know how to say it in words, but truly living is not from logic, but from your true longings and talents, expressing yourself to the world, not living in fear, afraid to live.

I agree, but what I'm saying is that I CANNOT express myself to the world like I want to, because i'm just too god damn nervous and insecure to do it!


As far as these letting go quotes are concerned:

"To let go is not to adjust everything to my desires,

but to take each day as it comes and cherish the moment. "

What part should I cherish about being onstage and ♥♥♥♥ing up my performance?

"To let go is not to deny, but to accept."

So I should just accept that I am so nervous I cannot perform well onstage and look like I'm not enjoying myself and present a bad stage image? (which I'm not, and which a friend of mine had no hesitation to mention to me after the show)

"to let go is not to criticize and regulate anyone,

but to try to become what I dream I can be. "

I AM trying that! But I honestly feel I cannot DO it if I don't find a way to be less insecure, and I still haven't figured that one out.

[Greek Dog]

I think this is a very valuable discussion. Getting past debilitating fear is critical. Finding the way to do that is not so easy. Even when one person finds a way or a number of techniques to overcome fear those same techniques may or may not work for another. Language describing both the fear itself and the way to overcome the fear is something that can be difficult to communicate.

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by Greek Dog

Language describing both the fear itself and the way to overcome the fear is something that can be difficult to communicate.

I don't think that is the issue here, though. He is not addressing the issue of hating yourself BECAUSE you feel afraid. Actually thinking of yourself as a sad, pathetic human being for not being able to remain at least calm ENOUGH to do what you want to do!

P.S. Nice fluffy dog avatar, by the way :-)

P.P.S. I also have a sneakin' suspicion that hating yourself BECAUSE of your anxiety is something that a lot of other people suffer from as well! I have been around long enough to know that whenever I experience something that seems really personal, it is usually a lot more generic that I thought at first glance!

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Manuel

Yes, I AM still afraid. When I said I "didn't want to do it" what I meant was that I really DO want to do it, but since I knew that actually DOING it would make me feel bad, I didn't want to feel those bad feelings. That's what I meant, but I DO want to be able to do the activity (which, if you're curious, is performing guitar onstage. I have huge stage fright and consequently play much worse onstage than I do in private. And not only that, but I don't ENJOY performing for people because i'm much too self-conscious when performing.) And what I'm saying is that forcing myself to do it, doesn't make me feel better about myself, everytime I go onstage and play badly I feel WORSE about myself, not better.

Not judging, just asking....then why do you want to play onstage? Are you trying to achieve something you can like yourself for?

How do you know what standard I hold myself to? It's fine to say I should just accept my limits and live within them, but I'm telling you I am not just "somewhat" anxious.

I'm not saying that I know WHAT standard you hold yourself to, I'm saying that because you HAVE a standard, you are setting yourself up for judgment, disappointment, self-loathing. Why do you think you can change your natural qualities?

I am SO nervous in certain situations that I "cannot function well enough to do the job"! That is not acceptable to me. How can I accept being this nervous when I mess up my performances onstage, and feel lousy and totally self-conscious while performing so that I am not even ENJOYING what I know I WOULD enjoy if I just weren't so god damn nervous? What part of this is so acceptable? I truly don't get it, sorry.

To me, it's unacceptable not to accept yourself as you are.

I was born anxious. I remember as a toddler being terrified at a bug on the floor and my mom had to cover it so I could get past it. When I was 5 or 6, I would literally hide under my bed or in a closet anytime people would come over.

In group situations, I'm quiet and just observe and rarely speak. I'm not entertaining and I don't have stories to tell. My gift is to go deep into life and in group settings that isn't normally going to go far. I can't stand small talk. But put me one-on-one with someone open minded and I come alive!

The point is that I've learned what my gifts are and what my limits are. I don't set standards that are outside my limits and within my limits, I don't need standards because I naturally create according to my abilities and interests.

Well, I would say my problems are not my thoughts, but how I FEEL.

But aren't your feelings about your thoughts? And don't you have feelings about your feelings? You said you fear your fear.

I agree, but what I'm saying is that I CANNOT express myself to the world like I want to, because i'm just too god damn nervous and insecure to do it!

I hear you on this one. For me, I love to teach but I can't see myself on a stage teaching an audience. For me, the internet is the stage where I don't have to be in front of the audience.

I also relate to the self-consciousness that you related. Self-consciousness is about being concerned about the opinion of others and the opinion you have of yourself. In my waking up in life, I've left 99% of my self-consciousness behind but that doesn't mean that I automatically become an extrovert and love to be in the spotlight. It just means that I'm not getting my self image from others or from myself.

I don't have a self image anymore...no self esteem. I'm not confused about who I am. Like I keep saying, I see my talents, I see my limits and I'm in awe of the nature I witness that is me. I got no need for any image, just a compulsion to share what I've learned.

As far as these letting go quotes are concerned:

"To let go is not to adjust everything to my desires,

but to take each day as it comes and cherish the moment. "

What part should I cherish about being onstage and ♥♥♥♥ing up my performance?

Again, why is it necessary to set that as a standard....to enjoy being onstage? Have you seen any improvement, or do you keep getting the same results trying the same thing?

"To let go is not to deny, but to accept."

So I should just accept that I am so nervous I cannot perform well onstage and look like I'm not enjoying myself and present a bad stage image? (which I'm not, and which a friend of mine had no hesitation to mention to me after the show)

Yeah, you're nervous....oh, forgot to mention, my oldest son is like me and used to hide when I had friends over. It taught me that I was this way by nature and that helped me learn about myself. I was able to help him be comfortable instead of teasing him about being so shy. I knew he was terrified and didn't know why. I haven't been able to change my anxious tendencies, but I have walked through the fire of facing my fears and so much of what I feared most of my life, I don't fear anymore, or I feel the fear but KNOW that the sky won't fall and move into the fear anyhow.

What I wrote on fear is what I've lived. I still feel fear, but I don't let fear run my life like I used to. It's an emotion, I see it run its course and it goes away.

"to let go is not to criticize and regulate anyone,

but to try to become what I dream I can be. "

I AM trying that! But I honestly feel I cannot DO it if I don't find a way to be less insecure, and I still haven't figured that one out.

This last quote I don't really agree with. All I can be is in accordance to my gifts and limits. If I dream of something outside my gifts and limits, I'm a fool.

[Angela]

LOL -- I thought your thread title was a command, like: "Be afraid of self-help! Be very afraid!"

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

Not judging, just asking....then why do you want to play onstage? Are you trying to achieve something you can like yourself for?

An excellent question! I want to play onstage, because music is the ONLY thing I have ever liked. I have tried to do lots of other work and I hated it all. I have talent for music, and I do LIKE music, I just don't like performing, but that is not because I dislike the performing ITSELF but because I'm too insecure to feel relaxed enough DOING it.

Originally Posted by RonSouther

I'm not saying that I know WHAT standard you hold yourself to, I'm saying that because you HAVE a standard, you are setting yourself up for judgment, disappointment, self-loathing. Why do you think you can change your natural qualities?

Because I don't think it IS natural to be totally nervous in the situations that I am nervous IN. The fact that many people are also nervous in those situations makes no difference. I think it is caused by childhood experiences and I believe it is possible to get rid of this anxiety. I just haven't figured out how yet.

Originally Posted by RonSouther

The point is that I've learned what my gifts are and what my limits are. I don't set standards that are outside my limits and within my limits, I don't need standards because I naturally create according to my abilities and interests.

That is very nice, but if I would do that, I wouldn't do very much! My abilities at the moment, with my insecurity and anxiety are so low they totally depress me. I don't feel like doing anything, feeling this way. And the reason I say my abilities are low is because I COMPARE them to other people's abilities. You may say you shouldn't compare, but how can you not?? I cannot do this, I see everyday what other people are doing and if I cannot do what others do, I will feel inferior. I don't know why people find this so surprising, to be honest!

Originally Posted by RonSouther

But aren't your feelings about your thoughts? And don't you have feelings about your feelings? You said you fear your fear.

My feelings are not about my thoughts, no, but they are about my feelings yes. I do fear my fear, and I most of all HATE my own fear. I hate having to feel this insecure and fearful about doing simple things. It makes me feel like a pathetic human being who needs tons of courage to do even the simplest things. I cannot like such a person. And some people would ask me "well, do you judge other people like that too, when they are afraid?" and my answer to that is yes! I do think that. If another person is as afraid as I am I would find him/her just as pathetic as I find myself, so there.

Originally Posted by RonSouther

Again, why is it necessary to set that as a standard....to enjoy being onstage? Have you seen any improvement, or do you keep getting the same results trying the same thing?

Why do I have "enjoying myself onstage" as a standard???? Is this a serious question??? Why on earth would I pursue a career as a musician if I didn't enjoy doing it? THAT is why I make it a standard! I want to be a musician because I love music and I have a talent for it, but I can't get myself to enjoy playing because I am too insecure at the moment. So what you are suggesting is to just perform onstage, and stop complaining about it, even if I play badly and hate doing it?? I do keep getting the same (bad) results, yes.

Originally Posted by RonSouther

Yeah, you're nervous....oh, forgot to mention, my oldest son is like me and used to hide when I had friends over. It taught me that I was this way by nature and that helped me learn about myself. I was able to help him be comfortable instead of teasing him about being so shy. I knew he was terrified and didn't know why. I haven't been able to change my anxious tendencies, but I have walked through the fire of facing my fears and so much of what I feared most of my life, I don't fear anymore, or I feel the fear but KNOW that the sky won't fall and move into the fear anyhow.

But this is not my problem! My problem is that I hate myself for having to feel afraid in the first place. I know the sky doesn't fall, that is irrelevant. What I hate is feeling bad about myself for not being able to do these things with an at least relaxed enough state to get through it without messing up.
[/QUOTE]

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by Angela

LOL -- I thought your thread title was a command, like: "Be afraid of self-help! Be very afraid!"

Maybe we SHOULD be.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Angela

LOL -- I thought your thread title was a command, like: "Be afraid of self-help! Be very afraid!"

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Manuel

An excellent question! I want to play onstage, because music is the ONLY thing I have ever liked. I have tried to do lots of other work and I hated it all. I have talent for music, and I do LIKE music, I just don't like performing, but that is not because I dislike the performing ITSELF but because I'm too insecure to feel relaxed enough DOING it.


Because I don't think it IS natural to be totally nervous in the situations that I am nervous IN. The fact that many people are also nervous in those situations makes no difference. I think it is caused by childhood experiences and I believe it is possible to get rid of this anxiety. I just haven't figured out how yet.


That is very nice, but if I would do that, I wouldn't do very much! My abilities at the moment, with my insecurity and anxiety are so low they totally depress me. I don't feel like doing anything, feeling this way. And the reason I say my abilities are low is because I COMPARE them to other people's abilities. You may say you shouldn't compare, but how can you not?? I cannot do this, I see everyday what other people are doing and if I cannot do what others do, I will feel inferior. I don't know why people find this so surprising, to be honest!



My feelings are not about my thoughts, no, but they are about my feelings yes. I do fear my fear, and I most of all HATE my own fear. I hate having to feel this insecure and fearful about doing simple things. It makes me feel like a pathetic human being who needs tons of courage to do even the simplest things. I cannot like such a person. And some people would ask me "well, do you judge other people like that too, when they are afraid?" and my answer to that is yes! I do think that. If another person is as afraid as I am I would find him/her just as pathetic as I find myself, so there.


Why do I have "enjoying myself onstage" as a standard???? Is this a serious question??? Why on earth would I pursue a career as a musician if I didn't enjoy doing it? THAT is why I make it a standard! I want to be a musician because I love music and I have a talent for it, but I can't get myself to enjoy playing because I am too insecure at the moment. So what you are suggesting is to just perform onstage, and stop complaining about it, even if I play badly and hate doing it?? I do keep getting the same (bad) results, yes.


But this is not my problem! My problem is that I hate myself for having to feel afraid in the first place. I know the sky doesn't fall, that is irrelevant. What I hate is feeling bad about myself for not being able to do these things with an at least relaxed enough state to get through it without messing up.

There's a distinction here....being a musician and playing onstage are two different things and they give you two different experiences. Music you love and being onstage you hate. You would love to be someone that loves to be onstage. Our imaginations can create unlimited illusions of the perfect life. This is all in the mind. Real living is to see what is real in your life and life within those boundaries harmoniously.

Another thought was what I see in me that I think drives my anxiety. I feel like I absorb much more of what is going on around me than most people. Like I have a bigger radar antenna, that I'm more "sensitive", not in an emotionaly way but that I notice more. And as society is so fake, I can't seem to relax in this illusion that is going on around me. The enormous amount of contradictions I believe I notice and can't reconcile, leaving me anxious with all this input that keeps me mindful.

You're obviously a creative person and that is of course a gift. Music isn't one of my gifts but I love to listen to an acoustic guitar and a singer with a slight desperation in his tone and lyrics, that he's hungry to figure this life out. For me, it rings true to my life experience of living all but the last two years of my life confused and wanting to know why.

If you can find a way to express yourself in a way that fits within your limits, I think you will find a deep fulfillment. You can't fit life to suit you. No, you are life and you have to find out how you work.

You're a unique being with something to share! I just read in your story that you're not respecting yourself, but instead logically trying to pursue of happiness that you can't achieve.

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

There's a distinction here....being a musician and playing onstage are two different things and they give you two different experiences. Music you love and being onstage you hate. You would love to be someone that loves to be onstage.

Exactly! Well, it's nice to meet someone in these forums who understands what I'm talking about instead of immediately throwing their own ideas at me.

Originally Posted by RonSouther

Another thought was what I see in me that I think drives my anxiety. I feel like I absorb much more of what is going on around me than most people. Like I have a bigger radar antenna, that I'm more "sensitive", not in an emotionaly way but that I notice more. And as society is so fake, I can't seem to relax in this illusion that is going on around me. The enormous amount of contradictions I believe I notice and can't reconcile, leaving me anxious with all this input that keeps me mindful.

Yes, this is very much how I feel too.

Originally Posted by RonSouther

You're obviously a creative person and that is of course a gift. Music isn't one of my gifts but I love to listen to an acoustic guitar and a singer with a slight desperation in his tone and lyrics, that he's hungry to figure this life out. For me, it rings true to my life experience of living all but the last two years of my life confused and wanting to know why.

If you can find a way to express yourself in a way that fits within your limits, I think you will find a deep fulfillment. You can't fit life to suit you. No, you are life and you have to find out how you work.

You're a unique being with something to share! I just read in your story that you're not respecting yourself, but instead logically trying to pursue of happiness that you can't achieve.

Well, I understand what you're getting at, but what on earth am I supposed to be doing then if it's not performing???? I don't like teaching guitar either, so what else is left??

[RonSouther]

Manuel, it's really clear that you want what we all want...to be able to accept and love ourselves, to stop this self-absorption of mental confusion.

I applaud you for reaching out to get perspective! There's a lot about what you're relating that rings true in me because of similarities in my own life. I would love not to be prone to anxiety but I have been able to see that it is akin to being a physical feature like height or skin color and not really who I am. I'm beyond these qualities watching the whole circus.

Think of it like the car your drive and you are the driver. Your consciousness is the driver. Your car has strengths and limits and to enjoy driving it, you have to know both. Keep pushing it beyond it's limits and you keep crashing and blaming the car.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Manuel

Exactly! Well, it's nice to meet someone in these forums who understands what I'm talking about instead of immediately throwing their own ideas at me.

Yes, this is very much how I feel too.

Well, I understand what you're getting at, but what on earth am I supposed to be doing then if it's not performing???? I don't like teaching guitar either, so what else is left??

I don't know the answer...I can guess that to make a living at what you love forces you to go onstage?

I don't know your industry so I can't offer any advice, but I do know that you can't force life. You have to allow it. You allow it when you remain within your limits and not live from logic.

It's a shame that society is based upon productivity and not passion. It's a rare person that can make a living from his heart. But to me that is what you're looking for but can't seem to find a way to make it happen so far?

I'm wondering if a lot of musicians use drugs to kill the anxiety?

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

I don't know the answer...I can guess that to make a living at what you love forces you to go onstage?

I don't know your industry so I can't offer any advice, but I do know that you can't force life. You have to allow it. You allow it when you remain within your limits and not live from logic.

It's a shame that society is based upon productivity and not passion. It's a rare person that can make a living from his heart. But to me that is what you're looking for but can't seem to find a way to make it happen so far?

I'm wondering if a lot of musicians use drugs to kill the anxiety?

Yes, I wish I could just play guitar in front of people, being relaxed enough to play well, but I can't do that. Not YET, anyway. And I have been playing for 30 years! It's not like I just started playing. That is what makes me so very sad, too. That I DO know what I want, I just don't feel like I can do it! I read all these posts about people who have no idea what they want to do with their life and I know exactly what I want but I don't feel I can get it! Some days I wish I DIDN'T know, it would be less painful. Imagine not having eaten for a month and seeing a big gorgeous buffet right in front of you and you're chained to a chair and it's just a few inches out of reach! That is what it feels like to me. It's bloody torture, I just cannot expose myself to getting up onstage and so wishing to play well and give people a good time with music and then after the performance being totally disappointed in how I played and hating my own guts. I can't take it anymore.

I don't know if most musicians take drugs. Alcohol is quite common, but that's not only in musicians' circles, is it?

But as far as taking drugs to kill anxiety is concerned, here's my thing: Not everyone is EQUALLY anxious! I am not expecting to be 100% totally free of any nervousness, I just want to be relaxed ENOUGH to be able to function well, that is all. And many musicians are that way, but I am more nervous than is good for me.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Manuel

Yes, I wish I could just play guitar in front of people, being relaxed enough to play well, but I can't do that. Not YET, anyway. And I have been playing for 30 years! It's not like I just started playing. That is what makes me so very sad, too. That I DO know what I want, I just don't feel like I can do it! I read all these posts about people who have no idea what they want to do with their life and I know exactly what I want but I don't feel I can get it! Some days I wish I DIDN'T know, it would be less painful. Imagine not having eaten for a month and seeing a big gorgeous buffet right in front of you and you're chained to a chair and it's just a few inches out of reach! That is what it feels like to me. It's bloody torture, I just cannot expose myself to getting up onstage and so wishing to play well and give people a good time with music and then after the performance being totally disappointed in how I played and hating my own guts. I can't take it anymore.

I don't know if most musicians take drugs. Alcohol is quite common, but that's not only in musicians' circles, is it?

But as far as taking drugs to kill anxiety is concerned, here's my thing: Not everyone is EQUALLY anxious! I am not expecting to be 100% totally free of any nervousness, I just want to be relaxed ENOUGH to be able to function well, that is all. And many musicians are that way, but I am more nervous than is good for me.

Can you ask a doctor for an anxiety medication? I've never taken any so I don't know what effect it would have on your performance. Or is there a configuration on stage where you're a little setback or hidden from the crowd? Or maybe a combination of both?

[evolutionarypathways]

Hi Manuel,

I'm finding this discussion absolutely fascinating...although I can also sense, Manuel, how much this situation is paining you. To find that your path of passion is also leading you into self-hate and pain isn't the rosiest of realizations to make.

From what I've picked up from the conversation above (and please correct me if I'm wrong) you feel like you might have been better off if you didn't have this gift/talent/passion - since the joy that you feel you should be experiencing is getting constantly rained on by a dark cloud that you can't seem to get yourself out from underneath.

To be robed of this joy almost feels worse than not having the joy to begin with, right? If you didn't have the possibility of this joy to begin with (as with someone who is leading a lukewarm life because they don't know their passion) then you wouldn't feel the guilt and self-hate that come when you fail to live with your gifts in the way you think you should.

You know what it would feel like to perform to the best of your abilities. If you didn't have a real sense of how it would be like to perform to your best, you would feel no guilt if you didn't. Think about that for a second! Playing guitar in front of an audience while flowing with the music, being at ease and actually coming out of the performance energized and feeling more alive than you've ever felt before, is not a fantasy to you. It is so real to you that you can taste it. Am I wrong? This is why it pains you so much when it doesn't in fact materialize, is it not?

I wouldn't call that fantasizing. I would call that intuition. A part of you knows what you can do - despite your fears and, so far, 'evidence' to the contrary. Listening to what you've said in this thread, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you were meant to play on stage. The presence of stage fright or performance anxiety is in no way an indication to the contrary. Our greatest potential (and/or the expression thereof) often lies behind our greatest fears. This shouldn't be that surprising.

Imagine what a powerful and soulful musician you'll become once you conquer that fear? You'll come alive in a much bigger way than someone who could just get up on stage and do a number without ever breaking a sweat. Why? Because you have faced a fear and won. You proved something that deep down inside you knew was true all along: that love is stronger than fear. That love transforms fear and ultimately uses it as its own fuel.

Now lets talk for a moment in more practical terms. When we are stuck, when we are suffering, when we want to move forward there are two 'paths' or 'ways' that we can take. The first path is the path of understanding. It is the path of insight and self acceptance. It's the path that Ron has been talking to you from, and that you yourself have explored, yet within this path you have yet to found the elements to will help you dissolve your problem.

The second path is a psycho-physical path. This path is working directly with the mind-body or psycho-somatic connection to get the results you want. The second path is focused on behavior, attitude, action/performance.

The first path is typically quite long and gradual. It's a process. The second path is more action/task oriented, is more immediate by nature, and is focused on results. These two paths aren't mutually exclusive, not by a long shot.

If you succeed in becoming more self accepting, through insight and real understanding, then you will also be able to function and perform better than you could before. You'd become more effective.

On the other hand, if your ability to perform was directly and powerfully improved and you were able to meet your own standards of expectation, this could potentially have a profound impact on your levels of self-acceptence and insight. Imagine being able to perform on stage as you would like. How would that affect your levels of self-acceptance? It would be huge, right?!

So a person can approach problems from either angle and come out winning. They could also embrace both angles, which is the most comprehensive approach. It seems to me that what you need right now isn't to work on self-acceptance first. You need to work on getting yourself performing the way you know you can (and you know you can because you want to). One effective way to do this is to develop a strong working relationship between your conscious and subconscious mind.

I recently published a series of articles on my website called the 5 self improvement and motivation pitfalls to watch out for. You might find this particular pitfall especially relevant to our discussion here: Self-Image Obsession. These articles can help you discover in more detail where your problem may lie.

Self hypnosis can then be used as a practical psycho-somatic tool to work directly with the subconscious mind. It helps you bypass conscious resistance that is usually encountered when trying to make conscious change. Hypnosis has proven effective in dealing with a wide range of conditions such as phobias, performance anxiety of all kinds, changing habits, and more.

Contrary to what many people think, self-hypnosis isn't about trying to change yourself into something you aren't. It's about removing artificial limitations that aren't allowing you to be who you already are! In this way it is quite an amazing tool for personal growth and self-realization (which is nothing more than making yourself real). I explain about self hypnosis in more detail here: Self Help Hypnosis.

Everyone is different and needs to find their own unique solutions to their problems. Hopefully you'll find something here that proves useful to you in piecing together your own puzzle. I wish you the very best with it.

Eli

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by evolutionarypathways

From what I've picked up from the conversation above (and please correct me if I'm wrong) you feel like you might have been better off if you didn't have this gift/talent/passion - since the joy that you feel you should be experiencing is getting constantly rained on by a dark cloud that you can't seem to get yourself out from underneath.

To be robed of this joy almost feels worse than not having the joy to begin with, right? If you didn't have the possibility of this joy to begin with (as with someone who is leading a lukewarm life because they don't know their passion) then you wouldn't feel the guilt and self-hate that come when you fail to live with your gifts in the way you think you should.

You know what it would feel like to perform to the best of your abilities. If you didn't have a real sense of how it would be like to perform to your best, you would feel no guilt if you didn't. Think about that for a second! Playing guitar in front of an audience while flowing with the music, being at ease and actually coming out of the performance energized and feeling more alive than you've ever felt before, is not a fantasy to you. It is so real to you that you can taste it. Am I wrong? This is why it pains you so much when it doesn't in fact materialize, is it not?

Thank you very much for responding, Eli. Your post has made me teary-eyed in some places and I really appreciate the thoughtful, compassionate and intelligent response!
I DO sometimes feel like you describe above, but at the same time I don't want to sound ungrateful for my musical talents. I do realize it is a blessing, if only I could do what I KNOW I COULD do (as you so clearly seem to understand.)

Originally Posted by evolutionarypathways

I wouldn't call that fantasizing. I would call that intuition. A part of you knows what you can do - despite your fears and, so far, 'evidence' to the contrary. Listening to what you've said in this thread, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you were meant to play on stage. The presence of stage fright or performance anxiety is in no way an indication to the contrary. Our greatest potential (and/or the expression thereof) often lies behind our greatest fears. This shouldn't be that surprising.

Imagine what a powerful and soulful musician you'll become once you conquer that fear? You'll come alive in a much bigger way than someone who could just get up on stage and do a number without ever breaking a sweat. Why? Because you have faced a fear and won. You proved something that deep down inside you knew was true all along: that love is stronger than fear. That love transforms fear and ultimately uses it as its own fuel.

You know, I really would love to believe this, but I find it so hard to keep the faith. Lots of people have told me that to get over stage fright you just need to perform more, but that makes no sense to me. For one thing, I have read stories about famous performing artists who still had stage fright after YEARS of performing! So how can anyone say that experience on stage will cure it? These stories clearly disprove that theory. If you ignore that, you are simply in denial, aren't you?? And I would like to emphasize that I don't need to be completely FREE of stage fright, I understand that a bit of nervousness can be fine and can enhance your performance. But I am SO nervous it interferes with my playing, I start trembling, I get so self-conscious and tense I cannot perform well anymore, and then it IS a problem.

Originally Posted by evolutionarypathways

So a person can approach problems from either angle and come out winning. They could also embrace both angles, which is the most comprehensive approach. It seems to me that what you need right now isn't to work on self-acceptance first. You need to work on getting yourself performing the way you know you can (and you know you can because you want to). One effective way to do this is to develop a strong working relationship between your conscious and subconscious mind.

I like your thoughts on the two approaches not being mutually exclusive. Very Yin-Yang indeed! (I am an avid martial arts enthusiast, that's why I mention this )

Originally Posted by evolutionarypathways

I recently published a series of articles on my website called the 5 self improvement and motivation pitfalls to watch out for. You might find this particular pitfall especially relevant to our discussion here: Self-Image Obsession. These articles can help you discover in more detail where your problem may lie.

As far as self-image is concerned, this is a major problem for me, but I am not sure what to make of your site's info on this topic. (I do like your insights very much though! Your site seems a lot more profound to me than many others I've read that are about self-help, for what it's worth.) You see, from MY perspective my main problem is that I hate myself BECAUSE I am insecure/afraid/nervous etc. I somehow feel inferior for not being able to do certain things that I can tell others are doing with a lot less fear than I am!

Originally Posted by evolutionarypathways

Self hypnosis can then be used as a practical psycho-somatic tool to work directly with the subconscious mind. It helps you bypass conscious resistance that is usually encountered when trying to make conscious change. Hypnosis has proven effective in dealing with a wide range of conditions such as phobias, performance anxiety of all kinds, changing habits, and more.

Hmmmm, hypnosis huh? I remember going to a hypnotherapist years ago for some personal issues and it didn't do anything for me. But I will take a look at the links you sent me. Thank you very much.

Originally Posted by evolutionarypathways

Everyone is different and needs to find their own unique solutions to their problems. Hopefully you'll find something here that proves useful to you in piecing together your own puzzle. I wish you the very best with it.
Eli

Thank you very much for responding and all the advice! I wish everyone in this forum would post like this. Best of luck to you too with everything you are dealing with.

Manuel

[Prinie]

Wow, the development of this thread! People on this forum have some deep and arduous debates I'll you what!

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by Prinie

Wow, the development of this thread! People on this forum have some deep and arduous debates I'll you what!

What does "arduous" mean exactly??? (not a native English speaker.)

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by Manuel

What does "arduous" mean exactly??? (not a native English speaker.)

Involving or requiring strenuous effort; difficult and tiring.

That's the dictionary definition of it.