Tired of shame spirals

[rei]

Hi all, I want to vent a little but also want some possible solutions so I can finally put a stop to this.

So there's a particular social environment that is imperfect. I try not to take it so seriously but it's pretty obvious to me that I'm not as well-received as I would like to be in that environment. I wish it didn't stress me so much but currently it does - on days where it's especially obvious.

Like times where my attempts to interact are met with stiffness or flat-out ignoring me. It's difficult. I take it to a bad place. Or today I tried to make a few jokes and none of them went over well. Even though people were laughing.

I want to inoculate myself against this reaction to the situation. I'm not used to feeling ignored being such a button but it's become one in the last couple of months.

More likely it just is quite painful when my social attempts aren't met with appreciation. Taking it seriously isn't doing me any good.

What I want: to not try so much or care so much about social success with people who seem to just tolerate me. I also want to try and find some quick methods to side step the reaction to these things - otherwise I spiral into a mini emotional meltdown.

I don't like what I've created here - and I know I did create this... with gradual missteps that I didn't fix the way people wanted me to and with being so guarded about myself... and then flipping to a style that tries to engage. The unpredictability caused this. Plus I warm up slowly in some settings, and did in this one, so my regular self-expression isn't the same as my first impression self and I can see how all of that would lead to the current situation). I want to be able to let go of trying to fix it so it doesn't have such a strong effect.

It isn't like this in every situation... just one particular one, and it's annoying and hurtful and painful and it touches on lingering toxic shame. I will appreciate tips, tricks and ideas for handling this.

[James81]

One thing I'm learning about human interaction is that a lot of the way people perceive you is in the way you present yourself and carry yourself. And, trust me, there is no place where this shows up clearer than standing in front of a classroom (i.e. I am learning this from my teaching experience).

I'm learning very quickly that the more you negotiate with people, the more they will walk all over you. The more you give in an interaction, the more they will take. And the more you pursue, the more they will run away.

In other words, if you want the interaction to change in this situation, then you have to come at it from a position of power. Right now you are coming at it as the supplicator...you are the one being ignored, so you try to make jokes and seek approval. And when they snub your approval seeking behavior, you supplicate more. Thus, you are teaching them that it's ok to snub you and you are still going to seek their approval.

Now, I know there's value in seeing why this is pushing a button for you (and you might do well to look at that), but when you come down to it, if you want this situation to change, then you must take on a higher form of thought...one that puts you in the position of power (over yourself, that is) and one that will not give supplicating behaviors to people who do not treat you the way you want to be treated.

You teach people how to treat you. And sometimes it takes being comfortable enough to stop, turn away, walk away, or stand firm in what you believe until the unwanted behavior you see in others stops. And yes, sometimes that's an easy fix and people will quickly adapt to YOUR new position of authority. And other times, people will be bull-headed and push your boundaries and test every limit you have to see exactly what you are willing to stand for and tolerate.

[rei]

Thank you, James. I like the practical focus of your reply.

That's a pretty good assessment of the current dynamic. Gave me some good food for thought.

Maybe I should focus on not just extinguishing supplicating behavior, but hearing the emotions that call to get myself noticed and approved of and deciding in the moment that my own approval matters more. Or just notice that I start to feel needy and then shift my focus entirely.

Yeah, good food for thought. Glad you're kicking butt and taking names in the classroom

[pianoperformer]

The social situation isn't imperfect. It's just not the way you would have it be. I'm sure it's perfectly fine for everyone else.

A few questions:

How are you not approving of yourself and enabling others to not approve of you?

How are you ignoring yourself or who you truly are?

How are you not appreciating yourself and who you are?

These might shed some light on your responsibility in this situation.

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by rei

Thank you, James. I like the practical focus of your reply.

That's a pretty good assessment of the current dynamic. Gave me some good food for thought.

Maybe I should focus on not just extinguishing supplicating behavior, but hearing the emotions that call to get myself noticed and approved of and deciding in the moment that my own approval matters more. Or just notice that I start to feel needy and then shift my focus entirely.

Yeah, good food for thought. Glad you're kicking butt and taking names in the classroom

sounds like you have gotten some great advice already
hugs !

[rei]

Those are great questions, pianoperformer. More food for thought. I will reflect on these questions. Thanks!

[RonSouther]

Everyone is lost and on an ego trip. Ego is a false belief system of self, one that depends on comparison with others and the opinions of others to keep it going.

Your ego is depending on others and you're frustrated that you aren't getting the food your ego needs to be "happy". Others are giving you the time of day as they are lost trying to find food for their ego.

The whole ego game is a selfish game. Until the ego can be seen and dropped, which means you've arrived at a point in life where truly the opinions of others has no influence over your feelings of self, good or bad, until the ego is dropped, then life remains a selfish pursuit instead of a selfless gift of self.

No one has anything real to give you. The world is selfishly stuck in ego.

This thread speaks a lot to your frustrations....
The need to be loved and understood...a very nice read!

[elucidate]

I'm going through the same thing actually, so that's an interesting synch.

The more I try to win their approval by trying to make up for the social pho pa's I made or the jokes that nobody got and being ignored, the more it continues. It's only when I give up trying to get their approval and just accept that they aren't like me, they are very conservative, we don't have anything in common and, in my case not necessarily yours, whilst there is an age gap, and whilst we can all get along regardless of age and it isn't really an issue, girls in their early twenties do think differently to someone who is approaching 40, and I would probably see me in the same light they do if I were back at their stage in life.

Not taking it personally is essential, and my experience has helped me become even more resilient.

Hang in there.

[The Happy Mom]

How you react and perceive certain situtations is all in your mind. You are feeling as if they are snubbing you because your EGO (which is simply the voice in your head that tells you lies to protect you) wants you to believe they are snubbing you!

The next time you tell a joke...don't let the voice in your head (EGO) try and lie to you by telling you it didn't go well. Talk to yourself in a positive way and tell yourself it went amazingly well and everybody loves me!

I have been in certain situations where I completely felt insecure and created a story in my mind I thought was true... only to find out later the REAL TRUTH and it wasn't even close to what I thought!

The mind is a powerful tool and because of past hurts and experiences along our journey it tells us things to protect us from having those hurtful feelings ever again! You are in control of your thoughts not the your thoughts in control of you!

Mind power is the key!

[Ciergan]

I struggle with this too. In the end I just gave up on trying to find common ground. My strategy is "courteous but cautious". If the social environment is toxic, there's a good chance they're acting in bad faith anyway.

[sharshar89]

Originally Posted by James81

One thing I'm learning about human interaction is that a lot of the way people perceive you is in the way you present yourself and carry yourself. And, trust me, there is no place where this shows up clearer than standing in front of a classroom (i.e. I am learning this from my teaching experience).

I'm learning very quickly that the more you negotiate with people, the more they will walk all over you. The more you give in an interaction, the more they will take. And the more you pursue, the more they will run away.

In other words, if you want the interaction to change in this situation, then you have to come at it from a position of power. Right now you are coming at it as the supplicator...you are the one being ignored, so you try to make jokes and seek approval. And when they snub your approval seeking behavior, you supplicate more. Thus, you are teaching them that it's ok to snub you and you are still going to seek their approval.

Now, I know there's value in seeing why this is pushing a button for you (and you might do well to look at that), but when you come down to it, if you want this situation to change, then you must take on a higher form of thought...one that puts you in the position of power (over yourself, that is) and one that will not give supplicating behaviors to people who do not treat you the way you want to be treated.

You teach people how to treat you. And sometimes it takes being comfortable enough to stop, turn away, walk away, or stand firm in what you believe until the unwanted behavior you see in others stops. And yes, sometimes that's an easy fix and people will quickly adapt to YOUR new position of authority. And other times, people will be bull-headed and push your boundaries and test every limit you have to see exactly what you are willing to stand for and tolerate.

why is it that I didn't try anything in social interaction and I became invisible to them as well? So not trying and trying too hard gives the same result?

[Ciergan]

Originally Posted by sharshar89

why is it that I didn't try anything in social interaction and I became invisible to them as well? So not trying and trying too hard gives the same result?

It's important to read the other person to see if they're even open to true social interaction. In less evolved environments, people are attracted to aggressive, negative, attention-getting behaviors. This is not the same as assertive, firm, outgoing behavior, but there can be a fine line in their appearances.

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of places where pro-social behavior happens because the person needs to have conscious development in mind. Many people are simply coasting.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by The Happy Mom

How you react and perceive certain situtations is all in your mind. You are feeling as if they are snubbing you because your EGO (which is simply the voice in your head that tells you lies to protect you) wants you to believe they are snubbing you!

The next time you tell a joke...don't let the voice in your head (EGO) try and lie to you by telling you it didn't go well. Talk to yourself in a positive way and tell yourself it went amazingly well and everybody loves me!

I have been in certain situations where I completely felt insecure and created a story in my mind I thought was true... only to find out later the REAL TRUTH and it wasn't even close to what I thought!

The mind is a powerful tool and because of past hurts and experiences along our journey it tells us things to protect us from having those hurtful feelings ever again! You are in control of your thoughts not the your thoughts in control of you!

Mind power is the key!

This is really true. It's usually all in our own heads.

I think in allowing the insecurity to take root, as I have in this situation...my co-workers have picked up on that insecurity and that is what is triggering their own insecurities?

It makes for an uncomfortable environment, and can act as a domino effect. The reverse can also happen when you are feeling comfortable with yourself.

[Piercetheveil]

How many areas of your life are going super well?

[lifetimelearner]

How are you doing rei ?

[Greek Dog]

your EGO (which is simply the voice in your head that tells you lies to protect you)

Oh how I love that definition.
How incredibly true! - the lies to protect us - thanks but no thanks to those lies.

I love using Dr. Jeffrey Scwartz' 4 steps to make that shift in listening to those lies. Four Steps