Feeling a bit rage-ee lately...

[russianrocket]

Probably been culminating over this past year or so ( if anyone says " we've seen" I kick your ass : D )


I've always been a rather peaceful person. Don't get angry or yell or anything. But lately I've been realizing, that I haven't been keeping myself peaceful. I've been bottling it up. I don't express any outward signs of rage, but it feels like I instead just turn it inward and let it simmer.

Every now and then tho, I feel frustrated, and I feel the rage churning up. Like, " hulk smash, don't make me angry" type of rage. I think I'm a very passionate person, who doesn't express my passion in any outwardly way. The shy quiet type, with a monster inside. lol I dunno... do I need to take boxing classes or something? I don't wanna blow up on someone. I remember when I was younger, I never wanted to get into a fight, because I felt that if I started, i couldn't stop, so I always held myself back.

[Arz Sra]

Its a good sign that its coming up. I can understand perfectly what you feel cause I have been just your kind of person - shy, introvert and bottleupper...

The best way to release it is to just be one with it when it comes ( the rage). You can try some physically aggressive things ( like boxing ) also.

we tend not to express our anger at many occasions just to avoid the uneasiness ( Embarrassment, pain etc etc) we know it will bring. In avoiding that uneasiness we sow the seeds of future uneasiness which is much more difficult to get rid of. The future uneasiness comes as something much more deeply rooted. There are just four ways to deal with surging rage - endure it ( without any comfortable though , no verbalization, just bear the whole pain, don't alienate it) , express it ( Punch someone in the nose :P) repress it( not admit its presence , try to force it down), And escape from it ( overindulgence in food, t.v , sex etc etc) .. The first option is the best in my humble opinion. It ends it all there and then . And what comes out is a truly free person. No issues.

[russianrocket]

I've been using 3 and 4. Tho, I wish I had sex instead of food and tv. As far as being an introvert. I think I'm only pretending to be one. I remember bring very out going at an earlier part of my life. Different circumstances have quenched that outgoingness . Now, I have to force myself to be out going. Takes all my energy just to be around people, even tho I know I want it. Usually I just avoid it all together

[Arz Sra]

remember bring very out going at an earlier part of my life.

I can personally relate to this very well.

Different circumstances have quenched that outgoingness . Now, I have to force myself to be out going. Takes all my energy just to be around people, even tho I know I want it. Usually I just avoid it all together

May be you are not getting the 'kind' of people you want. Though beware! Mind has subtle ways of keeping the 'core issues' buried under justifications or ideas.

[Fred Tracy]

Hmm, ever since I started being more honest with myself and in touch with me, I started feeling more angry.

I think it was a consequence of becoming more in touch with my emotions. Usually I let out that anger on the source though. I don't bottle it up.

If you let out enough anger on whatever is causing it, usually tends to stop.

Although, of course, the ultimate source of the anger is me. No one can make me feel what I don't want them to.

[elucidate]

I've been having the exact same thing lately. Bottling things up again, like i used to in a dysfunctional way, before I really started validating my feeling realm when I was 18.

I was really angry for a few years, recovering from ptsd. The rage would come up and I would just sit with it, and acknowledge it, but then little things would trigger me and I had to be very careful as I've always had a bit of a temper, lots of fire in me. I also think I'm the same about thinking I'm introverted but really not being. I wasn't and then I was. I've been really quiet for years...too quiet at times. I think that was a result of abuse, as a friend said to me, though I thought I was just enjoying being quiet...now it annoys me that I'm so quiet all the time.

Since I started to get in touch with my anger, it felt powerful for a while, and still uncomfortable at other times. Anger was one of the hardest emotions for me to admit to and get in touch with, as I always thought I never need to be angry. But anger is a powerful human emotion, that restores our self-worth and dignity when we have been mistreated, so it's an important emotion to have.

I don't like conflict, though I've been accused of needing it...but conflict is a natural part of life, and I don't deny that, whereas most people do, so they think I just like to create conflict, when really, the conflict is just there, and i acknowledge that it is. I prefer to feel peaceful, but I've been the same in that it's just not there anymore...I am so full of conflict and where I used to be so serene. I am better than I used to be as well. I can't wait to get my bike back and start riding again. Riding always exorcises the anger I've found. Exercise is good...boxing I've also thought about taking up, and I still have to start Krav Maga.

Most people here would not think it was me if they met me in real life, because I am usually pretty calm and almost never lose it, though I do feel the rage. I will only ever lose it with my brothers...and they usually deserve it.

If I get angry, I get people, men especially telling me to stop it...not be angry...but I am, so telling someone to not feel what they feel is stupid, but so many people do it.

It's ok to feel whatever you are feeling.

Hey, maybe you should just swallow your pride and go in the Occupy Wall Street protest, just to cathart rr.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

The best way to release it is to just be one with it when it comes ( the rage). You can try some physically aggressive things ( like boxing ) also.

I have a plastic batt which I take to my pillows and bed, which usually releases the charge quite well. I'll also punch the pillow (my poor pillow), and I even made a rage mask to wear when I am feeling ragey...and it works surprisingly well for bringing it all to the surface. It's scary how powerful it can be.

we tend not to express our anger at many occasions just to avoid the uneasiness ( Embarrassment, pain etc etc) we know it will bring. In avoiding that uneasiness we sow the seeds of future uneasiness which is much more difficult to get rid of. The future uneasiness comes as something much more deeply rooted. There are just four ways to deal with surging rage - endure it ( without any comfortable though , no verbalization, just bear the whole pain, don't alienate it) , express it ( Punch someone in the nose :P) repress it( not admit its presence , try to force it down), And escape from it ( overindulgence in food, t.v , sex etc etc) .. The first option is the best in my humble opinion. It ends it all there and then . And what comes out is a truly free person. No issues.

I go with the first option mostly. I do think I am guilty of letting it leak out on this forum though in the past, which is regrettable. It's probably better than punching someone in the nose though, so...

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Probably been culminating over this past year or so ( if anyone says " we've seen" I kick your ass : D )


I've always been a rather peaceful person. Don't get angry or yell or anything. But lately I've been realizing, that I haven't been keeping myself peaceful. I've been bottling it up. I don't express any outward signs of rage, but it feels like I instead just turn it inward and let it simmer.

Every now and then tho, I feel frustrated, and I feel the rage churning up. Like, " hulk smash, don't make me angry" type of rage. I think I'm a very passionate person, who doesn't express my passion in any outwardly way. The shy quiet type, with a monster inside. lol I dunno... do I need to take boxing classes or something? I don't wanna blow up on someone. I remember when I was younger, I never wanted to get into a fight, because I felt that if I started, i couldn't stop, so I always held myself back.

I could go off a tangent of suggestions but ultimately it boils down to giving the anger the space to exist. Regardless of triggers, coping methods and ways to express the anger; it must be given equal space to exist and the conditioning that demonizes it can be seen to be producing only more anger.

[NoJobRob]

I know all too well about feeling the rage. LOL I used to bottle it up too but I've gotten pretty good at talking about it to people, and then they relate to it and it reminds me that I'm not crazy. Most of my rage comes from the political dialogue online and on TV, and from controlling and/or cocky people. I think those are my main triggers. Oh great, now you all know my Achilles heel... LOL Anyway I started ignoring political discussions and stopped reading comments on news stories. As far as the controlling people go, I have cut a few toxic people out of my life over the last few years, so that's gotten a lot better. Cocky people... not much I can do about that except laugh to myself about what a douchebag they are. LOL

[russianrocket]

So, yesterday morning, I decided to take our some of my rage. Took one of my juggling clubs and went at it to the couch. Poor couch didn't know what was coming.

Now, my throat hurts, my wrist hurts, and my back hurts lol I must have had a lot of rage. I've been trying to figure out all day why my back hurts so much, and only now put two and two together.

But, I did get out my rage. It's interesting how the energy is something that gets stored, and can actually be expelled like emptying a bucket of water. I should probably do this once a week.

Then again, maybe I should get a handle on why I keep accumulating so much rage instead of just fighting the symptoms of it.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by NoJobRob

I know all too well about feeling the rage. LOL I used to bottle it up too but I've gotten pretty good at talking about it to people, and then they relate to it and it reminds me that I'm not crazy. Most of my rage comes from the political dialogue online and on TV, and from controlling and/or cocky people. I think those are my main triggers. Oh great, now you all know my Achilles heel... LOL Anyway I started ignoring political discussions and stopped reading comments on news stories. As far as the controlling people go, I have cut a few toxic people out of my life over the last few years, so that's gotten a lot better. Cocky people... not much I can do about that except laugh to myself about what a douchebag they are. LOL

I got off facebook. Once I started to get really pissed off because of a thread, on a girls post. A girl that I've cared about for years. That was the last straw.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

I can personally relate to this very well.



May be you are not getting the 'kind' of people you want. Though beware! Mind has subtle ways of keeping the 'core issues' buried under justifications or ideas.

I don't know. I've experienced a lot of different kinds of people in my life. The really good ones tho, are all really far away from me unfortunately. I've gotten rid of MANY people over the years. I push them away all the time. Probably another reason for the rage. The rage is towards myself tho, not anyone else. I know that much.

[NoJobRob]

Get yourself one of these...



...and some of these.

[Solipsist]

Hey, rr, I'm gonna really level with you, so you might want to have a seat, if you're not sitting already.

I used to have a LOT of rage. I mean, in the past, I have put my fist into walls and through cheap doors. I broke my foot, once, kicking an acetylene bottle. My family background had a lot to do with it, but since they're mostly gone, now, I'm pretty much over it. Once in a while, though, the rage creeps up on me, often triggered by some unforeseen, and usually rather trivial, but nonetheless angering event.

It happened to me the other day, in fact, for the first time in several years, after our little interaction (meaning yours, rr, and mine) in another thread. Frankly, I was livid, and although at the time, my ego would have blamed you for triggering my rage, I knew then, and I understand perfectly well, now, that it was and is my problem, and I don't presume to lay any guilt on anyone else for it.

What I did at the time, was something that I've discovered helps keep me from putting my fist into walls, anymore--I went for a brisk walk. By the time I got back and kicked my shoes off, I was, pretty much, right as rain.

I relate this episode for two reasons. One, I wanted to apologize to you for ever expressing myself in any way offensive in any of our disagreements in this forum. And two, I just wanted to let you know that there is nothing in the slightest wrong with letting off a little steam, as long as you recognize (which I know you do, as you show in this very thread) that it is your steam.

I differ from you, in that I've never really been shy. Although I have tended to be introverted, I've always felt perfectly free to say my peace, not caring a whit what anyone thought of it, and have done so frequently enough to earn a reputation for wearing my heart on my proverbial sleeve. However, along with that has gone also a reputation for impatience and intolerance, both of which have proven often to be triggers for the rage.

But, and lastly, I recognize that we're all doing the best we can with the resources we've been given. That includes me, but it also includes you. So, if you want to destroy a couch, go right ahead. As Lester Burnham said in the movie American Beauty, "it's just a f<3cking couch!"

[cheesedip1]

I remember being outgoing for like 1-2 high school years.

After that, not sure what happened. I guess I took a break.

(Btw, how do I get a profile picture on here)

[cheesedip1]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

So, yesterday morning, I decided to take our some of my rage. Took one of my juggling clubs and went at it to the couch. Poor couch didn't know what was coming.

Now, my throat hurts, my wrist hurts, and my back hurts lol I must have had a lot of rage. I've been trying to figure out all day why my back hurts so much, and only now put two and two together.

But, I did get out my rage. It's interesting how the energy is something that gets stored, and can actually be expelled like emptying a bucket of water. I should probably do this once a week.

Then again, maybe I should get a handle on why I keep accumulating so much rage instead of just fighting the symptoms of it.

Yeah, I've had a lot of rage that needs to get out lately, too.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

So, yesterday morning, I decided to take our some of my rage. Took one of my juggling clubs and went at it to the couch. Poor couch didn't know what was coming.

Now, my throat hurts, my wrist hurts, and my back hurts lol I must have had a lot of rage. I've been trying to figure out all day why my back hurts so much, and only now put two and two together.

But, I did get out my rage. It's interesting how the energy is something that gets stored, and can actually be expelled like emptying a bucket of water. I should probably do this once a week.

Then again, maybe I should get a handle on why I keep accumulating so much rage instead of just fighting the symptoms of it.

I think we store a lot of anger and pain in our backs. For most people, hurt is stored around the shoulder blade area, but I get it in lower back.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by NoJobRob

Get yourself one of these...



...and some of these.

I really want to take up boxing.

I had this fantasy of me and another female friend getting into the ring together and going at it. We love each other, but we also both have a lot of aggression and there have been times when she has hated me and had a lot of jealousy towards me, so I thought it would be good...

She said yes at first and then changed her mind? Maybe she didn't trust herself...or me?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I don't know. I've experienced a lot of different kinds of people in my life. The really good ones tho, are all really far away from me unfortunately. I've gotten rid of MANY people over the years. I push them away all the time. Probably another reason for the rage. The rage is towards myself tho, not anyone else. I know that much.

Is it something to do with your jewish roots rr?

I've heard that many jewish people have some sort of inherent self-hatred due to the whole persecution thing that's gone on throughout history.

What's your take on it?

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Is it something to do with your jewish roots rr?

I've heard that many jewish people have some sort of inherent self-hatred due to the whole persecution thing that's gone on throughout history.

What's your take on it?

Nah, at least not as far as I can tell. My self hate is more directed to the things I do or don't do. My lack of will power and extreme laziness and anxiety. When I sit there and can't get myself to do a specific task, or push myself away from the tv. I get angry at myself. I get angry at myself when I see all the unneeded suffering I have brought upon myself and others. I get angry at myself when I see all the potential I have inside of me wasted. Stuff like that. The Jewish roots, if anything lol make me feel more guilt. That's one stereotype that is very true.

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Nah, at least not as far as I can tell. My self hate is more directed to the things I do or don't do. My lack of will power and extreme laziness and anxiety. When I sit there and can't get myself to do a specific task, or push myself away from the tv. I get angry at myself. I get angry at myself when I see all the unneeded suffering I have brought upon myself and others. I get angry at myself when I see all the potential I have inside of me wasted. Stuff like that. The Jewish roots, if anything lol make me feel more guilt. That's one stereotype that is very true.

rr, have you ever considered that maybe the self-hatred stems from the guilt? For example--could it be possible that deep down, you feel guilty because of your lack of will power, your laziness, or anxiety? Could it be possible that it's really guilt that is directed inwardly for watching television, bringing on unneeded suffering upon yourself and others, or for wasting your potential?

I've often wondered about Judaism and their apparent connection with guilt complexes. I'm still having to deal with guilt a little, myself, though nothing as it used to be, and it stemmed from completely different circumstances from most. But, guilt is a biggie in many, many people's lives, I think, moreso than they're willing to admit, and in my case, once I discovered my own latent guilt for things, I could forgive myself, and as a result, I became a much happier person, generally.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Nah, at least not as far as I can tell. My self hate is more directed to the things I do or don't do. My lack of will power and extreme laziness and anxiety. When I sit there and can't get myself to do a specific task, or push myself away from the tv. I get angry at myself. I get angry at myself when I see all the unneeded suffering I have brought upon myself and others. I get angry at myself when I see all the potential I have inside of me wasted. Stuff like that. The Jewish roots, if anything lol make me feel more guilt. That's one stereotype that is very true.

Yeah, I totally hear you.

I'm the same. I get so angry at myself for wasting so much time, and potential...on forums...I don't really watch t.v anymore, but I don't really make the best use of my time either. It's like making the transition from being an ex-t.v junkie to now having the time and space that I've created in my life to do the things that really matter to me, like art and painting, it's left me in this funk where I seem to fall back into procrastination modes when I know the things that would make me happy are right there in front of me, but I stop myself and make myself miserable in the process...and it's more of a familiar thing for me, than making myself happy is, which has to do with limiting beliefs about not deserving happiness, and being so used to being down.

It all ends up making me feel ultimately frustrated and angry, but even that isn't enough to always motivate me, which ends up just being a waste of energy as well, which makes me angrier. It's this ongoing vicious circle.

If I could just get into more of a habit of consistently doing little steps towards what I want to achieve instead of falling back into escape mode, then I might actually feel like I'm being more productive. I guess it's fear on some level, but it's also just habit. I've been wanting to emulate my father for the way he is a self-starting, self-motivated individual...even though there are parts of him I wouldn't want to emulate at all...and my will is strong for things like forcing myself to get up in the morning and doing the things that my humanness wants to just not do...like training for my belts all day and forcing myself to get up at the crack of dawn and just train all day till last thing at night. I'm good with that in a physical sense, but not when it comes to the projects that matter to me. Pushing past the natural urge to just put it off, is extremely challenging.

My nickname was always inertia growing up, so breaking out of that laziness, for me, is really challenging.

[Curious cat]

Originally Posted by elucidate

anger is a powerful human emotion, that restores our self-worth and dignity when we have been mistreated, so it's an important emotion to have.

this is such a neat way to articulate it. I've always felt this way but never actually intellectually processed it.

Russianrocket, is the guilt truly yours or could they have been instilled in you from others since you were young through criicism, expectation, expressions of disappointment etc. I'm not pointing fingers at all (well maybe i am), but for me personally, i never learnt to deal with anger properly in childhood, it was only through self reflection (and many ragey, emo years) that i learned to mellow out. I realised that i am hardwired to react with anger largely because i was never allowed to express it growing up.

I come from a very strict family so it wasn't hard to get into trouble and i vividly remember if i were to show signs of 'feeling' angry, i'd be threatened with more punishment. That really did my head in. As a result i grew up believing that anger was a bad thing but at the same time, never knew how to manage it. It eventually overwhelmed me and when i couldn't contain it any longer, i exploded and didn't stop ... In fact, i went to the other extreme and became an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Though i think i needed to go through that to process my issues and grow.

I am a firm believer that we are a product of our childhood, and parents play a huge role in shaping who we become/are. So could this anger stem from your childhood family dynamics, where you feel like you are failing others' expectations of you, and you are angry at yourself for not being good enough? I don't mean to make assumptions, so i apologise if i am totally off base, but it may help if you can identify any childhood issues and reconcile them.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Curious cat

this is such a neat way to articulate it. I've always felt this way but never actually intellectually processed it.

Thankyou.

Russianrocket, is the guilt truly yours or could they have been instilled in you from others since you were young through criicism, expectation, expressions of disappointment etc. I'm not pointing fingers at all (well maybe i am), but for me personally, i never learnt to deal with anger properly in childhood, it was only through self reflection (and many ragey, emo years) that i learned to mellow out. I realised that i am hardwired to react with anger largely because i was never allowed to express it growing up.

This sounds similar to my situation growing up. I also realized after some introspection that a lot of the depression and misery I was feeling wasn't even mine...it belonged to my parents who had unconsciously transfered it to me, and because I am empathic, I soaked it up and took it on with out realizing it.

I think this happens a lot to many people, and they have no idea they are carrying around and acting out other peoples emotions.

Strange and interesting the way humans operate.

I come from a very strict family so it wasn't hard to get into trouble and i vividly remember if i were to show signs of 'feeling' angry, i'd be threatened with more punishment. That really did my head in. As a result i grew up believing that anger was a bad thing but at the same time, never knew how to manage it. It eventually overwhelmed me and when i couldn't contain it any longer, i exploded and didn't stop ... In fact, i went to the other extreme and became an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Though i think i needed to go through that to process my issues and grow.

Whilst my family weren't so strict, though being female the rules were different for me than they were for my brothers...I was given the same message that anger was not acceptable, from my father, but mixed messages from my mother telling me to 'get mad', when I would be too calm...so that was pretty confusing.

I went around as one of these 'love and light' people for years believing there was no need to get angry, and I was passive and let people walk all over me, all so I would be perceived as 'nice'. It was fake.

I was a totally different person to who I am today. I don't let people walk all over me anymore, and I stand up for myself...and that's all because I allowed myself to feel angry and honored it as a human emotion, just as important as all the 'nice' emotions we are all encouraged to feel more than the "negative' stuff. I don't believe in "negative" emotions. All emotions are human and we are allowed to feel whatever we are feeling, whenever we feel them, and more people need to get with that and stop trying to control everyone else.

RePressing down anger is what leads to creating depression in a person.

[ZephyrusX]

RE: Expectations - Just my random thoughts

I think internalizing expectations can lead to procrastination, frustration, guilt and feelings of rage. Specifically if you internalize the idea that you have to live up to some standard in order to be accepted, loved and respected. I say that this can lead to procrastination as I sometimes catch my self simply not doing anything because I can use it as a method of escaping the perceived consequences I see in failing to live up to this external standard. It might seem counter-intuitive at first; after all, if you are trying to earn respect, acceptance and love, you first have to get off your ass and do something. But if you refuse to act, you can always say, 'Well, I'm not really a failure. If I had chosen to act, I would have been a splendid success. Really! I'm actually very smart and competent. I don't need to prove it.'

Deep down though, I think we realize that this is just a cop-out. We are simultaneously too afraid to act because of the fear of failure while feeling spiritual dead inside due to our inertia. It is quite a pickle you get your self in. I think the frustration, guilt and anger comes in when you feel powerless to remove your self from the situation.

I'm not sure what you do to get your self out of that mental fix. I suppose the logical thing to do would be to cognitively restructure your relationships in a way that tolerates failure and accepts it as a normal part of life. That is easier said than done though.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

RE: Expectations - Just my random thoughts

I think internalizing expectations can lead to procrastination, frustration, guilt and feelings of rage. Specifically if you internalize the idea that you have to live up to some standard in order to be accepted, loved and respected. I say that this can lead to procrastination as I sometimes catch my self simply not doing anything because I can use it as a method of escaping the perceived consequences I see in failing to live up to this external standard. It might seem counter-intuitive at first; after all, if you are trying to earn respect, acceptance and love, you first have to get off your ass and do something. But if you refuse to act, you can always say, 'Well, I'm not really a failure. If I had chosen to act, I would have been a splendid success. Really! I'm actually very smart and competent. I don't need to prove it.'

Deep down though, I think we realize that this is just a cop-out. We are simultaneously too afraid to act because of the fear of failure while feeling spiritual dead inside due to our inertia. It is quite a pickle you get your self in. I think the frustration, guilt and anger comes in when you feel powerless to remove your self from the situation.

I'm not sure what you do to get your self out of that mental fix. I suppose the logical thing to do would be to cognitively restructure your relationships in a way that tolerates failure and accepts it as a normal part of life. That is easier said than done though.

Maybe learning to give yourself acceptance and approval and not rely so heavily on having to win respect from family or friends etc.? We are already perfect the way we are, so it seems silly to me that we have to 'win' this from other people. Usually it is never really enough...at least in my family I've noticed. I'll show the draft for my kids book and my brother will look at me like I'm pathetic and say "is that it?", rather than appreciate what it took to get to that point, or that I did it on my own...all of it.

Trying to get their approval seems like a doomed exercise that will just leave me feeling inadequate.

I know my father has had some pretty high expectations of me, and I have learned that it will never be enough for him because he has a very distorted view of himself and is a workaholic and "peak-performer", always busy, always having to do stuff and sees this as how a "winner" behaves...when really he has such a low self-image that he needs to put others down just to make himself feel better, which, to me, is more like how a "loser" operates.

If I were to even try and meet his expectations I'd probably have ulcers like he does.

I like what you have to say here though, it makes a lot of sense...at least to me. For me, it's more fear of success than fear of failure though. I've failed before, and it's not the end of the world. If I succeed though, I might stand out from everyone and that might leave me alienated and alone...worse than I've ever been before, and I've spent A LOT of time alone.

[ZephyrusX]

In a way, I agree with you. I think intrinsic motivation is more important than extrinsic. On the other hand, I do think that people want and need some form of social connection. I think the form of procrastination I was talking about stems from unhealthy relationships. I can't count the number of times I pretended I knew something or just didn't say anything to reveal my ignorance as I thought people would look down upon me and not love me for who I am. Or the number of times I refused to do something, like join a group at school, a book club or even volunteer to help moderate a forum, because I thought I'd perform badly and people would not tolerate it and think poorly of me. Not doing something that may reveal my inadequacies is a poor coping mechanism for retaining approval, but at the same time it is like a form of spiritual death as you never do anything to push your self beyond your limits.

I think I do actually have a high self-worth and self-esteem. I know on one level that failure is normal and I know that I can pick my self up and perform well at the end, Indeed, I have done this a lot in the past. This is intrinsic worth and motivation. It is other people that I am weary of; just because I'm wiling to forgive my self for mistakes it doesn't mean that other people are. The idea of other people being overly critical sort of makes me freeze up. So I often end up doing stuff that requires no group involvement. I do a lot of stuff alone because I believe in my own self worth, but I suppose I don't believe in the kindness and acceptance of others. But I do actually want those things.

I think the solution to this is to realize that there are people out there who are willing to accept you for who you are. I think people who are over-critical are wrapped up in their own unhealthy relationships where they think that what they do is never enough to please other people. Sort of like what you said about your father. Actually, I use to be like this my self. I guess there is some sort of perverse pleasure to subjecting other people to the same hardship that you are subjected to.

There are people out there that will love you and support you regardless of where you are in your life. Accepting them into your life is another matter though.

Originally Posted by elucidate

Maybe learning to give yourself acceptance and approval and not rely so heavily on having to win respect from family or friends etc.? We are already perfect the way we are, so it seems silly to me that we have to 'win' this from other people. Usually it is never really enough...at least in my family I've noticed. I'll show the draft for my kids book and my brother will look at me like I'm pathetic and say "is that it?", rather than appreciate what it took to get to that point, or that I did it on my own...all of it.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

In a way, I agree with you. I think intrinsic motivation is more important than extrinsic. On the other hand, I do think that people want and need some form of social connection. I think the form of procrastination I was talking about stems from unhealthy relationships. I can't count the number of times I pretended I knew something or just didn't say anything to reveal my ignorance as I thought people would look down upon me and not love me for who I am. Or the number of times I refused to do something, like join a group at school, a book club or even volunteer to help moderate a forum, because I thought I'd perform badly and people would not tolerate it and think poorly of me. Not doing something that may reveal my inadequacies is a poor coping mechanism for retaining approval, but at the same time it is like a form of spiritual death as you never do anything to push your self beyond your limits.

Sure. I've had the same experiences and the way I decided to deal with them was to decide not to worry anymore about it and accept the inherent clumsiness in being human. The most recent job I've had has been terrible for me making so many mistakes and doing silly things that the people I work with have given me all those looks like "you're a friggin' IDIOT", when really I am just a pretty creative person who is complex and needs stimulation so filing and data entry puts my brain to sleep and as a result I make loads of mistake because I'm jut not really with it, and I don't care about the job...it puts me to sleep.

I'm not a ditz at all, I'm just a different type of person that doesn't do so well with mundane jobs like this, and they are scientists, very left-brained and are in a different reality all together to me...so, learning to not worry too much about what they think and just remember that it's only a dumb job that is a stepping stone to where I am heading that is more suited to me, is important.

I'm a little different to you, as in I push past those comfort zone thoughts and do it anyway, like with how so many people are afraid to ask questions at work or meetings in case they sound stupid, and as a result, they don't learn as much...when really, the boss and people in charge are more than happy to answer questions (usually) and want people communicating with them.

It's that huge step to overcome anticipating what people will think, when usually it's not always realistic, and even if they do look down on you...so what? Is it the end of the world that someone you don't really know, thinks you are an idiot?

I think I do actually have a high self-worth and self-esteem. I know on one level that failure is normal and I know that I can pick my self up and perform well at the end, Indeed, I have done this a lot in the past. This is intrinsic worth and motivation. It is other people that I am weary of; just because I'm wiling to forgive my self for mistakes it doesn't mean that other people are. The idea of other people being overly critical sort of makes me freeze up. So I often end up doing stuff that requires no group involvement. I do a lot of stuff alone because I believe in my own self worth, but I suppose I don't believe in the kindness and acceptance of others. But I do actually want those things.

I usually do, and sometimes it can fluctuate, and I will feel worthless for one reason or another, but I tend to bounce back fairly quickly these days. I have intrinsic worth though, as in deep down I know I'm a worthwhile person, no matter what anyone says or does to try and convince me otherwise...I know it's more about them, then it is about me.

Overly critical people are usually even more critical towards themselves than they are to others. They just externalize their self-critic to make themselves more comfortable.

I think the solution to this is to realize that there are people out there who are willing to accept you for who you are. I think people who are over-critical are wrapped up in their own unhealthy relationships where they think that what they do is never enough to please other people. Sort of like what you said about your father. Actually, I use to be like this my self. I guess there is some sort of perverse pleasure to subjecting other people to the same hardship that you are subjected to.

There are people out there that will love you and support you regardless of where you are in your life. Accepting them into your life is another matter though.

Yes, I've got one or two in my immediate circle of friends, which is a blessing. It's strange that you find these people in life, but the people you would expect to be supportive and accepting, like immediate family, aren't always as unconditional in their love or supportive as I grew up being told families were. That hasn't really been my experience at all, and I don't think I'm the only one...sadly.

[Vaganova]

Figuring out why you're pissed is often a good idea.

I was pissed at a classmate, couldn't figure out why, and then looked for why, and figured out that it had to do with when my parents moved back in high school. Then I wasn't pissed anymore.

[ChrisGinsburg]

An important realization is to notice that we don't always know why anger arises. Even someone that appears to have conquered all of their demons will still get angry from time to time. There will always be someone who will manage to rub you the wrong way at the wrong time somehow no matter how 'conscious' or in control you believe yourself to be. Emotions are not truly separate from thoughts. Thoughts are merely the minds interpretation of an emotion and like thoughts, you do have the power to connect or not connect with each passing thought and emotion.

The circular nature of belief is such that if you believe yourself to have issues with rage, your experience will follow this. There's nothing magical about it. Noticing this belief is merely an illusion can allow one to step out of this circle and break the conditioning. While one could spend a lifetime figuring out why they're angry, the irony of such introspection can also lead one to continually seek evidence that they are indeed an angry person.