What is your PERFECT ideal for personal development

[brianrorty]

Hey, how's everyone. Just a question - like, if you could just sit down with a genie and wish for the perfect personal development tool/program/whatever, what would it be?

Not just "NLP" or whatever - like, if you could really have anything you wanted, what would really be the thing that would exactly touch your concerns?

I ask because you know, I've been looking at stuff like this for a while, and I've never really asked that. I just kind of assumed that other people were like me, they had this sort of general feeling that they wanted more and that there had to be some way to get that.

I don't know, even as I type that I can feel I'm fudging it even for myself.... hahaha

So what's the perfect thing you would wish for if you could just wish for it?

And also - haha - just to spice it up - what things most grind your gears about all this stuff?

[ArthurHung]

I asked that question 6 years ago, and had a visit with my higher self/God, and eventually asked for a life-coach that could teach me everything I could ever want to know about relationships. A life coach, basically. And I met him, his name is Jason Fonceca. Here's his website if you'd like to check him out.

And to answer the question, what grinds my gears?

Myself. I'm super aware of when I'm providing value and when I'm not, and when I'm not, I wake myself up and start putting on the passion gears to max, being on the ready to put forth energy into what helps lubricate what's around me (people or things) to express itself more towards it's fullest, and to help myself and those around me become more aware of what we are asking for and who we are.

[wstein]

I express what I want and it happens quickly with no more apparent thought or effort.

[brianrorty]

Huh. That's really interesting. Ok, so like, relationships, and being able to make things happen. Yeah? Like those are your things.

It's weird, I just never really broke it down for myself, I don't know. Ah, maybe I didn't ask the question right, I don't know if I'm really communicating myself well. It's less like - "what would you like if a genie popped up", and I guess more like:

"What is this really about for you?"

Is that too vague? It's too vague, isn't it. I just want to sound some other people out, maybe so I can kinda get a bit of an idea about my own motivations.

What are you really looking for - like, brass tacks, no magic, no fancy stuff, no overblown marketing promises, no unrealistic ideas - what are you really looking for, in real life, from all this personal development stuff?

[brianrorty]

Like, straight up, it's not a test, not looking for the best answer or anything. Just like, from the hip, shoot from the hip. Just a quick snapshot, I'm really interested in people's opinions on this.

[brianrorty]

Ok, ok, alright, alright. I'm really scared, all the time, with people. I just get weird around people. Like I'm someone else, someone fake and weird. I know that sounds weird. I'm not asking for any kind of advice on it (I will be later, don't you worry) but yeah, those are my cards on the table.

What are your cards?

[ZephyrusX]

I want a magic mushroom.

Honestly, I learn and grow quickly by interacting with people in different capacities. I'm not sure that I would benefit much from any one personal development product. I actually don't utilize a lot of such products to begin with.

[lifetimelearner]

I am currently reading a fascinating book Amazon.com: Change or Die: The Three Keys to Change at Work and in Life (9780060886899): Alan Deutschman: Books

[brianrorty]

Ok, let's take this in a new direction.

Would you say it is fair to say that the main reason you have gotten into this is because you don't want to live a normal life of quiet desperation?

[Izak]

I know that probably people are going to consider myself "something something",

but i would like to have the capability to defend myself physically from anyone. Even agaisnt a 400 pound big muscle guy. Or versus 10000000.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by brianrorty

Would you say it is fair to say that the main reason you have gotten into this is because you don't want to live a normal life of quiet desperation?

First I am going to say that I am extremely far from the norm. I have never felt like a ’normal’ person, ever. I didn’t ‘get’ in to personal development, it’s part of my personality and lifestyle, always has been.

That being said, there are many people who feel as you do. Few have the courage to talk about it.

I did decide in my early teens that the ‘life’ my parents had was NOT acceptable for me. I had and have no issue with the way my parents lived, it just did not sit well with my being. I made up my mind and focused for many years to ‘get out’. I succeeded, first by getting into college and then getting a good job in another state. As far as spiritual development, I grew up on an area with only two options, atheism or Christianity. I worked out that both had some merit, neither was for me. I worked hard in solitude for decades blazing my own trail. As I experienced successes along the way, i never descended into ‘quiet desperation’.

Small steps and NEVER settle until you get ‘there’.

[Brutha]

Would you say it is fair to say that the main reason you have gotten into this is because you don't want to live a normal life of quiet desperation?

No, I don't think so.

A while ago I was at a personal development seminar at our university.
The professor listed a bunch of self limiting programs that some people feel emotional about. Among others:
1) I finally want to be "normal".
2) I never want to be "normal".
Both programs reveal internal issues. At the moment I have neither of those.

At as my own motivation for dealing with personal development goes it isn't a "away from" motivation.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by Brutha

At as my own motivation for dealing with personal development goes it isn't a "away from" motivation.

If there is anything that your motivation is clearly not, then could it also be said that your motivation is "away from" the thing that it clearly must not be? So your motivation is pointing in a direction away from "away from" motivation.

To me it seems to define anything in terms of what it is not is to limit it in some way. What is so wrong with "away from" that it must be avoided?

I would say that my only motivation is "away from", because there is nothing that I am really missing to move towards. If at this moment I am experiencing anything other than feeling completely at peace in every way imaginable, than there is something that is bothering me. There is internal conflict. If ignoring internal conflict caused it to evaporate slowly over time than I would practice ignorance. However so far in my experience I have had far better results by exploring what the conflict is really about than ignoring it and looking for something that makes me happy. I really don't need happiness, because happiness is never missing unless I'm imagining it and then imagining myself to be somewhere different and then imagining there's a gap that I need to close in one way or another.

To me the only purpose of self development is to bring to light the mental patterns that have limited me, and to release these patterns. I do wonder that being able to simply recognize a pattern in its entirety is enough. The only reason a pattern is a pattern is that I feel like I'm on a roller coaster ride, letting each experience unfold anew, which creates a sense of emotional movement. I get caught up in this movement because it fascinates me in one way or another, and so I could say for a little while I'm caught in a mental pattern. To clear it up all I need to do is clearly recognize every part of the pattern and feel it fully. When all parts have been felt to the extent that there isn't a tunnel around a corner that makes me slightly nervous, then I lose my fascination with the pattern. As long as I am slightly nervous about some part of the pattern, my mind is not truly free to leave it. Feeling nervous about anything is the same as being hypnotized by it. Any sort of nervousness that can be felt is a clear sign that consciousness is being sucked into something.

[brianrorty]

Originally Posted by Brutha

No, I don't think so.

A while ago I was at a personal development seminar at our university.
The professor listed a bunch of self limiting programs that some people feel emotional about. Among others:
1) I finally want to be "normal".
2) I never want to be "normal".
Both programs reveal internal issues. At the moment I have neither of those.

At as my own motivation for dealing with personal development goes it isn't a "away from" motivation.

THANK you. That is perfect, that's really the kind of clarity I've been looking for. I'm just trying to get my head around what's really going on underneath all this personal development stuff in people. You know - no right answer, just the real answer, and see if it connects or something, see what's going on behind the curtain for people.

So if it's not that, then, straight up, what is it? What do feel you need out of this? What is it about this that you really feel a need for, a hunger for?

And that's not to say it's a negative thing to feel a need or a hunger - I think both can be negative or positive, like if you have a hunger for success or a need to make a difference to people's lives or something. Those I would say are good things.

If it's not motivation 'away' from something, and it's motivation 'to' something, what is that 'motivation to' pointing toward?

[brianrorty]

Originally Posted by AaronB

If there is anything that your motivation is clearly not, then could it also be said that your motivation is "away from" the thing that it clearly must not be? So your motivation is pointing in a direction away from "away from" motivation.

To me it seems to define anything in terms of what it is not is to limit it in some way. What is so wrong with "away from" that it must be avoided?

I would say that my only motivation is "away from", because there is nothing that I am really missing to move towards. If at this moment I am experiencing anything other than feeling completely at peace in every way imaginable, than there is something that is bothering me. There is internal conflict. If ignoring internal conflict caused it to evaporate slowly over time than I would practice ignorance. However so far in my experience I have had far better results by exploring what the conflict is really about than ignoring it and looking for something that makes me happy. I really don't need happiness, because happiness is never missing unless I'm imagining it and then imagining myself to be somewhere different and then imagining there's a gap that I need to close in one way or another.

To me the only purpose of self development is to bring to light the mental patterns that have limited me, and to release these patterns. I do wonder that being able to simply recognize a pattern in its entirety is enough. The only reason a pattern is a pattern is that I feel like I'm on a roller coaster ride, letting each experience unfold anew, which creates a sense of emotional movement. I get caught up in this movement because it fascinates me in one way or another, and so I could say for a little while I'm caught in a mental pattern. To clear it up all I need to do is clearly recognize every part of the pattern and feel it fully. When all parts have been felt to the extent that there isn't a tunnel around a corner that makes me slightly nervous, then I lose my fascination with the pattern. As long as I am slightly nervous about some part of the pattern, my mind is not truly free to leave it. Feeling nervous about anything is the same as being hypnotized by it. Any sort of nervousness that can be felt is a clear sign that consciousness is being sucked into something.

Wow.

Ok, need to go away and really think about that one, that's just 100 times more insightful than anything I expected to get.

Ok, seriously, I cannot respond to this, I just need to really think about this for a while.

[AaronB]

Recently I've been finding a value to the tension I do experience. It often occurs for me along with a hurry to get rid of it. If I try to define what exactly that tension really is, it occurs for me as information that cannot be reconciled by my current model of reality. It is the existence of an anomaly. While I can try and ignore the anomaly, I still know it's there. For a while it can be like a blemish on my perfect painting of reality.

To actually clear the anomaly requires me to alter my current understanding of reality. This can be painful because often the rules by which I understand reality were not chosen lightly. It seems to me my rules are really protective devices that my mind does not want to let go of. But the existence of an anomaly makes me realize that my own rules for processing reality are not completely accurate. While sometimes we consider ourselves to be flexible, in reality we are not. If we believe in something, even one deviation from that belief can shatter an understanding based on a million pieces of evidence that supported it. In this sense a castle of cards can be knocked down by a single anomaly. For that reason we often hate anomalies, because we know their power. Not that they really have any power of themselves, but our intelligence is inherently pure and flawless. Our understanding is naturally perfect. At some level we know that a slightly deviant model of reality is complete BS. It is either 100% infallible, or not.

So an anomaly creates a lot of tension. I have been finding that it is better not to resolve the anomaly, in the sense of resolving it for the purpose of finding relief from the uncomfortable feeling that comes with it. Rather I like going in the opposite direction. I am grateful for the anomaly, because it alerts me that there is some distortion in my thinking. I let myself fully feel the tension that the anomaly brings. This can be like torture, but this anomaly can be used to bring light into blind faith in baloney. By allowing the anomaly to expand, by feeling it even more, we are allowing ourselves to become aware of the anomaly. Anomalies can tear us apart, but it is always for the better, beause the only thing dropped is that which cannot be real. I don't believe we really even need to solve an anomaly. We just allow it to be, for me I just allow myself to feel the question fully. And the questioning grows and grows and grows, until it forces out whatever cannot take the pressure anymore. At this point the anomaly completely disappears, because there is nothing left pushing against it.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by brianrorty

THANK you. That is perfect, that's really the kind of clarity I've been looking for. I'm just trying to get my head around what's really going on underneath all this personal development stuff in people. You know - no right answer, just the real answer, and see if it connects or something, see what's going on behind the curtain for people.

So if it's not that, then, straight up, what is it? What do feel you need out of this? What is it about this that you really feel a need for, a hunger for?

And that's not to say it's a negative thing to feel a need or a hunger - I think both can be negative or positive, like if you have a hunger for success or a need to make a difference to people's lives or something. Those I would say are good things.

If it's not motivation 'away' from something, and it's motivation 'to' something, what is that 'motivation to' pointing toward?

I think I do live a life of quiet life of desparation and my intention is to be content in my own skin and just to enjoy being me. regards

[brianrorty]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I think I do live a life of quiet life of desparation and my intention is to be content in my own skin and just to enjoy being me. regards

Cool. Kudos for the honesty.

[brianrorty]

Originally Posted by AaronB

If there is anything that your motivation is clearly not, then could it also be said that your motivation is "away from" the thing that it clearly must not be? So your motivation is pointing in a direction away from "away from" motivation.

To me it seems to define anything in terms of what it is not is to limit it in some way. What is so wrong with "away from" that it must be avoided?

I would say that my only motivation is "away from", because there is nothing that I am really missing to move towards. If at this moment I am experiencing anything other than feeling completely at peace in every way imaginable, than there is something that is bothering me. There is internal conflict. If ignoring internal conflict caused it to evaporate slowly over time than I would practice ignorance. However so far in my experience I have had far better results by exploring what the conflict is really about than ignoring it and looking for something that makes me happy. I really don't need happiness, because happiness is never missing unless I'm imagining it and then imagining myself to be somewhere different and then imagining there's a gap that I need to close in one way or another.

To me the only purpose of self development is to bring to light the mental patterns that have limited me, and to release these patterns. I do wonder that being able to simply recognize a pattern in its entirety is enough. The only reason a pattern is a pattern is that I feel like I'm on a roller coaster ride, letting each experience unfold anew, which creates a sense of emotional movement. I get caught up in this movement because it fascinates me in one way or another, and so I could say for a little while I'm caught in a mental pattern. To clear it up all I need to do is clearly recognize every part of the pattern and feel it fully. When all parts have been felt to the extent that there isn't a tunnel around a corner that makes me slightly nervous, then I lose my fascination with the pattern. As long as I am slightly nervous about some part of the pattern, my mind is not truly free to leave it. Feeling nervous about anything is the same as being hypnotized by it. Any sort of nervousness that can be felt is a clear sign that consciousness is being sucked into something.

Ok, had a little time to process this. That is deep, and not in the normal 'self help' deep way, that's actually deep, that is digging into the source code.

One of the things I try and do in my life is move away from complexity. I'm pretty bad at it, it gets me stressed. Simplicity I can do, that's cool, even if it's difficult - if something's simple, there's a simple way to respond to it. That's just one of the things I try to do.

When I read this, I'm seeing this very close examination of the mechanisms underlying problems in life. Now, that's not something a person is born knowing, it's obvious that you've spent time tearing down the veil, as it were.

Stop looking at the paintwork of the car, and get to the engine, almost.

What I've noticed in my own - what to even call it - journey? That sounds really lame, but you know what I mean, I hope - is that there is always some kind of underlying simplicity to what humans do.

You guys have been so patient with my stupid questions, but I'm totally fascinated now, by what you're going to say, so I hope you'll be cool with another -

What is the underlying simplicity of what you are trying to do?

If there isn't one, or you think that's too reductionist or cheeky to ask, then ok, fine, but I'd love to hear your take on that, Aaron.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by brianrorty

What is the underlying simplicity of what you are trying to do?

My goal expressed as simply as possible: I am trying to feel good.

The method I choose: If I don't feel good, then why not?


When I ask "why not?" It is with the understanding that feeling not good about anything is a very active process. I ask the question "what am I doing?" rather than asking what am I missing? No matter how bad I feel, it takes energy to feel bad, and if I get tired enough I'll stop for a break. I consider feeling bad to be an active process that I am putting energy into, but it usually appears to be the opposite: that feeling bad is just natural and it requires effort to find a way out of it. But the slight change of approach of seeing my state as a result of an active process, rather than seeing myself as a fish on a hook that stands on its own, makes a huge difference. It actually works.

[Brutha]

If there is anything that your motivation is clearly not, then could it also be said that your motivation is "away from" the thing that it clearly must not be? So your motivation is pointing in a direction away from "away from" motivation.

That's silly. Playing semantic games doesn't change anything about the underlying reality.

To me it seems to define anything in terms of what it is not is to limit it in some way.

The point of definitions is to allow us to talk about things. Being able to talk about how different people perceive reality differently is valuable.

So if it's not that, then, straight up, what is it? What do feel you need out of this? What is it about this that you really feel a need for

I'm not at the stage of needing. I'm at wanting.
I want to make an impact. I want to change the world for the better.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by Brutha

That's silly. Playing semantic games doesn't change anything about the underlying reality.
The point of definitions is to allow us to talk about things. Being able to talk about how different people perceive reality differently is valuable.

I don't find it silly. To me this is silly:

makka pakka song - YouTube,
or this: The Silly Adventures of Mr. Mochi (an Oblivion Machinima) - YouTube

I see these as actual attempts at being silly. But I wasn't attempting to be silly, or irrelevant, though I believe you may really find what I say to be irrelevant.

I do not see you as being silly, but you seem to lean more in the direction of lining up with somebody else's principles and trying to embody them as if they were your own.