Molested and free anyway

[AaronB]

I have been writing occasionally on a thread about mothers who have struggled with having their children molested. My focus is generally on complete and total healing of the whole situation, including everyone involved, but that is not really acceptable in that thread because the damage to the children seems too great.

In my experience I was never molested. I was spanked as a child and it did take me about 20 years to get over it. Not over it in the sense of move on, but over it in the sense of letting go of all the resentments and burdens I had carried to the point that I feel no anger at all about my past. I see parents that did the best they new how and feel only gratitude for them. I can say now that I am completely free. No one ever did anything wrong. There is nothing I would want punished even if I could.

My own experience though is worth very little in a thread devoted to sexual abuse. In effect it seems to me as if the damage done is permanent, in the way that in alcoholics anonymous people will say they are an alcoholic until the day they die. Even if they don't drink. Has ANYONE ever come from such a background and been so totally healed over the situation that they were left with absolutely no resentment at all about the past? No anger, no wishing that anyone would have been different, just complete acceptance that everything worked out to a present moment that is so beautiful that there is no reason to wish for a different history? To the point that there is nothing that needs fearing because no harm was actually done?

It's funny to me to say that after 20 years of being angry about my childhood that no harm was done, but I have come to a sense of wholeness that is so complete that for all I know maybe the 20 years of misery was part of the plan. Anything that gets me to now must be good because now is so amazing.

[Harmonium]

Yes I can be grateful for my not so... easy life, but

childhood problems are different from children getting molested problems

I haven't been molested and neither have you, but do you think you could be grateful for it?

[scotthegeek]

thanks for starting this thread I know there is a lot of contention that is brought up about spanking and what is abuse and what to do about it (therapy) I have gone back and forth several times over 35years but there a so many factor I don't think I will figure it all out and even if I did I'm not sure if it would change anything.

there is so much I want to talk about but I don't think these forums are the right place to talk about it.

Scott

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by Harmonium

Yes I can be grateful for my not so... easy life, but

childhood problems are different from children getting molested problems

I haven't been molested and neither have you, but do you think you could be grateful for it?

Of what help is my being grateful for my good fortune to those who aren't so lucky? My life is easy. My obstacles are pathetic. I have not had one difficult day that I cannot laugh at now.

It's not fair! I didn't ask for such an easy life. I wish I could demonstrate my ability to magnificently transcend all the difficult experiences life throws at me, and what do I get? An easy life. The whole time. Not a single difficult problem was thrown at me.

So at this moment, no I'm not grateful. I am left helpless by my good fortune. A communication gap has been created because I cannot possibly understand the difficulties of others. How ever could I?

So for that reason I wonder if there is anyone who actually HAS gone through something as difficult as being molested as a child, and come out (eventually) completely undamaged. Not limping and saying I survived, but completely, totally, and undeniably whole and complete in every sense.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by scotthegeek

thanks for starting this thread I know there is a lot of contention that is brought up about spanking and what is abuse and what to do about it (therapy) I have gone back and forth several times over 35years but there a so many factor I don't think I will figure it all out and even if I did I'm not sure if it would change anything.

there is so much I want to talk about but I don't think these forums are the right place to talk about it.

Scott

I love that you have exactly 1001 posts at the time I am reading this. Congratulations on having just passed the 1000 mark!!!

Scott, you personally to me are one of my favorite characters in pavlina-land. I've read many things you have written, though I've said very few things to you.

Recently I've read a LOT about your cat. About the amazing recovery that you've been able to enjoy. I love the picture of your cat as your avatar.

You speak in a different way than most people, there's a sincerity and uncontrived naturalness that is the most gentle form of expression I've ever heard. I can see why your cat would choose you to take care of her.

Much of what you say is uplifting to me, because you present your life with such simple honesty. Not having figured it all out, but having lived it, every last moment of it, so beautifully.

[James81]

I think Mounds said it best (and I *think* it was in the thread you're referencing) when he said something along the lines of "whatever emotion you are feeling/were feeling was the correct emotion for the time....the real question is how long is it appropriate to hang onto that emotion."

I don't think that's exactly how he said it, but that's the gist. In other words, whatever terrible thing has happened, whether it be something as serious as molestation/rape or something as "small" as stubbing your toe on the dresser as you walk by, is going to have a negative emotion associated with it. And that negative emotion is going to have an "acceptable" timeframe attached to it. For example, this is why you hear people say "he buried his wife last week and her body wasn't even cold yet before he started dating...what an ass" or something like that.

It's been considered and deemed acceptable that you hang onto certain emotions for a specified period of time.

The trouble is, in our society, we haven't specified a time for certain things like rape/molestation or things like that. Society itself is ok if someone wants to hang onto negative emotions associated with that for the rest of their lives because we have decided that it's insensitive to tell someone who has faced that to "get over it," even if it's been YEARS.

Thus, the person doesn't have that social "push" (so to speak) to get over it, thus the choice falls onto THEM as to when they choose to let go of that emotion.

And, sadly, some people form their identity out of such emotions and, as such, they will probably never let go of it, even though the emotion itself is causing them suffering.

[Bliss Sage]

Hi AaronB,

I had a traumatic childhood and adolescence. I was not molested, but my parents had a violent divorce when I was young, with kidnappings and big public dramatic scenes, break-ins and theft between parents, some physical violence, perpetual emotional abuse and the trauma didn't end until I was able to leave "home" at age 18. At age 20, I became suicidally depressed and became increasingly worse until about 2-3 years ago.

I'm 43 now and my answer to your question is no, even if I have managed to pretty much heal my suicidal depression and the anxiety. And that took a hell of a lot of work, fundamentally all in the form of my own will power. If the people you are trying to help are not hell-bent on healing themselves, they may not even get past the first threshold, let alone get to feeling fully whole and complete - not limping.

There is another factor to consider, however. There are people who lived one or a couple of clearly discernible traumatic events only. I would imagine it ought to be possible for such people to get healed to feeling whole again, unless their traumatic event ended up leading them into more traumas and a string of messes in life.

The other situation relates to people who have lived a traumatic life - meaning the conditions of their very existence were traumatic, so there was no beginning or end to it. Then it is really hard to dig your way out. That is my case.

My life is getting pretty good now, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to say I'm not "limping." I'm not suicidal, I'm not depressed and I'm in the throws of making my life good, but...Actually I can imagine a scenario where I could say I would be so joyful that I would rather be alive on earth than not (since life on earth has come to mean very little to me), but I don't know if I would say I was grateful for everything I lived until then, and I know I couldn't laugh at most of what happened in my childhood/adolescence.

The strategy for me is to forget everything that happened - not think about it anymore, because it was all so bad. I don't see why someone who was molested as a child, once healed, should have to look back on those times. Maybe I say this because I myself am not fully healed, I don't know. But I know I can feel whole and complete in "the now," but if I look back at where I came from, I feel broken again. So why do that?

Btw, like you, I have had a drive to help people like me or like the ones you want to help, but, ironically, I feel like it is because I DO understand them that I can't help them. Mostly concerning suicidal people - how can I argue with them or convince them not to be suicidal if I understand them and can relate to why they feel that way? I have almost lost track of how I got as far as I did, such that the only thing I can say is that I was hell-bent on getting out. That's where healing starts and ends. I can't give that to anyone, but once they have it, then I can help.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

Hi AaronB,

I had a traumatic childhood and adolescence. I was not molested, but my parents had a violent divorce when I was young, with kidnappings and big public dramatic scenes, break-ins and theft between parents, some physical violence, perpetual emotional abuse and the trauma didn't end until I was able to leave "home" at age 18. At age 20, I became suicidally depressed and became increasingly worse until about 2-3 years ago.

I'm 43 now and my answer to your question is no, even if I have managed to pretty much heal my suicidal depression and the anxiety. And that took a hell of a lot of work, fundamentally all in the form of my own will power. If the people you are trying to help are not hell-bent on healing themselves, they may not even get past the first threshold, let alone get to feeling fully whole and complete - not limping.

There is another factor to consider, however. There are people who lived one or a couple of clearly discernible traumatic events only. I would imagine it ought to be possible for such people to get healed to feeling whole again, unless their traumatic event ended up leading them into more traumas and a string of messes in life.

The other situation relates to people who have lived a traumatic life - meaning the conditions of their very existence were traumatic, so there was no beginning or end to it. Then it is really hard to dig your way out. That is my case.

My life is getting pretty good now, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to say I'm not "limping." I'm not suicidal, I'm not depressed and I'm in the throws of making my life good, but...Actually I can imagine a scenario where I could say I would be so joyful that I would rather be alive on earth than not (since life on earth has come to mean very little to me), but I don't know if I would say I was grateful for everything I lived until then, and I know I couldn't laugh at most of what happened in my childhood/adolescence.

The strategy for me is to forget everything that happened - not think about it anymore, because it was all so bad. I don't see why someone who was molested as a child, once healed, should have to look back on those times. Maybe I say this because I myself am not fully healed, I don't know. But I know I can feel whole and complete in "the now," but if I look back at where I came from, I feel broken again. So why do that?

Btw, like you, I have had a drive to help people like me or like the ones you want to help, but, ironically, I feel like it is because I DO understand them that I can't help them. Mostly concerning suicidal people - how can I argue with them or convince them not to be suicidal if I understand them and can relate to why they feel that way? I have almost lost track of how I got as far as I did, such that the only thing I can say is that I was hell-bent on getting out. That's where healing starts and ends. I can't give that to anyone, but once they have it, then I can help.

Thanks so much for writing this all out, it is such an eye opener for me. I realize that while I look at my past as being unable to haunt me anymore, if I had the choice between living the first 30 years of my life or not, it would be an easy no, I would rather not even exist. I went through a lot of emotional pain at the time. So in this sense I guess I never get to the point of "laughing" at my past, it just becomes harmless but I really wouldn't want to go back there.

Sometimes I imagine that fully healing means to find all my past difficulties to have been easy, but they weren't. Not at the time. For a while my life was hell on earth. But it's so easy for me to forget that when my days are so beautiful now. There is no emotional pain haunting me anymore. It didn't go away over night, but as I decided I wanted to be free from the emotional pain I was a slave to, above all else, especially my desire to punish the ones I held responsible, then the path towards my own freedom unfolded itself. But it still took a while. A commitment to my misery was replaced with a commitment to my freedom. I could have one or the other but not both.

You are helping me to realize that temporarily we do have the ability to hurt each other a lot, to bring an enormous amount of suffering to each other. But once this hurt is fully healed, there is not a single trace of pain left. But complete forgiveness seems necessary before complete healing can take place.

I recognize that there is something within me that wants to see others healed, not bandaged, but healed from everything. To the point that the past has no more grip. For me it is more than just my compassion for others, it is also my compassion for myself. It seems that as I reach out to lift another out of the mud, that I am being lifted out of my own mud as well. That in seeing another with an unrelenting desire for them to be free, I cannot help to see myself that way. The more people I bring into my personal sphere of lovable, the more I am able to love myself unconditionally. I can not feel loved unconditionally until I can love others unconditionally, no matter what they may have done, or are doing, or will do.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by James81

The trouble is, in our society, we haven't specified a time for certain things like rape/molestation or things like that. Society itself is ok if someone wants to hang onto negative emotions associated with that for the rest of their lives because we have decided that it's insensitive to tell someone who has faced that to "get over it," even if it's been YEARS.

Thus, the person doesn't have that social "push" (so to speak) to get over it, thus the choice falls onto THEM as to when they choose to let go of that emotion.

And, sadly, some people form their identity out of such emotions and, as such, they will probably never let go of it, even though the emotion itself is causing them suffering.

I like bringing society into the mix because sometimes I forget how pervasive its effects are. To go against the grain in this (guilty many times myself) is often seen as blasphemy.

Some people seem very receptive towards sympathy. This role is so well defined. They say how much it hurts, people will apologetically understand, after which they are humbly thanked for their understanding the magnificence of the grand tragedy. Appreciation of the vastness of the problem is the primary goal here. Anything that suggests that the problem is actually surmountable is not welcome.

Others actually seem very curious to know what is going on here. What to do about their emotions, how to move back to the same level of ease and joyfulness that they were used to before. Their focus is "how do I get there from here?" I've been learning that these are the people that actually can be helped. I like the idea of learning to discern between those that want the enormity of their problem appreciated, versus those that actually want a solution. If someone is angered by someone not recognizing the vastness of their wonderful problem, then they have some stake in a goal other than moving past it.

[Lanya]

She doesn't seem to be around to clarify, but you might be interested in Angela's posts in this thread.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by AaronB

Thanks so much for writing this all out, it is such an eye opener for me.

For a while my life was hell on earth. But it's so easy for me to forget that when my days are so beautiful now.
A commitment to my misery was replaced with a commitment to my freedom. I could have one or the other but not both.
Complete forgiveness seems necessary before complete healing can take place.

I recognize that there is something within me that wants to see others healed, not bandaged, but healed from everything. To the point that the past has no more grip. For me it is more than just my compassion for others, it is also my compassion for myself. It seems that as I reach out to lift another out of the mud, that I am being lifted out of my own mud as well. That in seeing another with an unrelenting desire for them to be free, I cannot help to see myself that way. The more people I bring into my personal sphere of lovable, the more I am able to love myself unconditionally. I can not feel loved unconditionally until I can love others unconditionally, no matter what they may have done, or are doing, or will do.

You expressed this well Aaron, which is why I repped you. Good work! You're doing great!

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by scotthegeek

thanks for starting this thread I know there is a lot of contention that is brought up about spanking and what is abuse and what to do about it (therapy) I have gone back and forth several times over 35years but there a so many factor I don't think I will figure it all out and even if I did I'm not sure if it would change anything.

there is so much I want to talk about but I don't think these forums are the right place to talk about it.

Scott

Hi Scott, this is the perfect place to get all these things off your mind. I know you have struggled and still do. I have wondered what happened to you and I care about you. Spit it out, my friend.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by AaronB

Of what help is my being grateful for my good fortune to those who aren't so lucky? My life is easy. My obstacles are pathetic. I have not had one difficult day that I cannot laugh at now.

It's not fair! I didn't ask for such an easy life. I wish I could demonstrate my ability to magnificently transcend all the difficult experiences life throws at me, and what do I get? An easy life. The whole time. Not a single difficult problem was thrown at me.

So at this moment, no I'm not grateful. I am left helpless by my good fortune. A communication gap has been created because I cannot possibly understand the difficulties of others. How ever could I?

So for that reason I wonder if there is anyone who actually HAS gone through something as difficult as being molested as a child, and come out (eventually) completely undamaged. Not limping and saying I survived, but completely, totally, and undeniably whole and complete in every sense.

Wow AaronB, is this really true? You feel you haven't had anything difficult thrown at you? This is because you have nothing with which to compare your abused childhood. Listen Aaron, I have hit my kids too. I know I did wrong. It fills me with shame and guilt and so it should. These feelings remind me to extend my apologies to you too. I'm so sorry for what we as parents inflict on our children. If we are to break these cycles of abuse, the whole truth must be told from all sides. You are a part of this huge picture and thankyou for being in the other thread with me. I read every word. You touched my heart in a way I couldn't understand. Perhaps now I do. Luv to you, Paula

[Bliss Sage]

Another thing I am finding, that we should keep in mind, is that the farther away I get from my own suffering, and the better I make my life, I find the less I can remember how it felt to be in the position those people are still in, which also leaves me a little at a loss for how to help them. If I delve into my own past, I might be able to remember, but I am convinced there must be a good way to help without having to revisit the pain of it.

Anyway, I am not so far along on my own path to begin looking at helping others - which I had tried doing for years while I was suicidal, ironically.

I do believe it is possible to heal to the extent that you say, but I know it would take an incredible amount of will power and, for me personally, I don't think I have enough years left in my life to get to that place. And then there is the question of exactly how healed do you mean? Because does anyone really exist who is 100% unaffected by things from their past? Even if the past was easy, or even a fairy tale, people are still functioning on the basis of how they were treated and raised, it is just not an issue for people with easy pasts, because they either don't suffer from it, or they don't suffer enough to make them stand out in society in some way.

I also find your last paragraph interesting, mostly because if I had a dime for every "new-ager/PD-er" who told me I can't love anyone else until I love myself, I could quit working.

Btw, I'm writing a diary of my healing path that I hope might be a book some day .

Originally Posted by AaronB

Thanks so much for writing this all out, it is such an eye opener for me. I realize that while I look at my past as being unable to haunt me anymore, if I had the choice between living the first 30 years of my life or not, it would be an easy no, I would rather not even exist. I went through a lot of emotional pain at the time. So in this sense I guess I never get to the point of "laughing" at my past, it just becomes harmless but I really wouldn't want to go back there.

Sometimes I imagine that fully healing means to find all my past difficulties to have been easy, but they weren't. Not at the time. For a while my life was hell on earth. But it's so easy for me to forget that when my days are so beautiful now. There is no emotional pain haunting me anymore. It didn't go away over night, but as I decided I wanted to be free from the emotional pain I was a slave to, above all else, especially my desire to punish the ones I held responsible, then the path towards my own freedom unfolded itself. But it still took a while. A commitment to my misery was replaced with a commitment to my freedom. I could have one or the other but not both.

You are helping me to realize that temporarily we do have the ability to hurt each other a lot, to bring an enormous amount of suffering to each other. But once this hurt is fully healed, there is not a single trace of pain left. But complete forgiveness seems necessary before complete healing can take place.

I recognize that there is something within me that wants to see others healed, not bandaged, but healed from everything. To the point that the past has no more grip. For me it is more than just my compassion for others, it is also my compassion for myself. It seems that as I reach out to lift another out of the mud, that I am being lifted out of my own mud as well. That in seeing another with an unrelenting desire for them to be free, I cannot help to see myself that way. The more people I bring into my personal sphere of lovable, the more I am able to love myself unconditionally. I can not feel loved unconditionally until I can love others unconditionally, no matter what they may have done, or are doing, or will do.

[scotthegeek]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Hi Scott, this is the perfect place to get all these things off your mind. I know you have struggled and still do. I have wondered what happened to you and I care about you. Spit it out, my friend.

Thanks for the concern Paula I have talk about what happen to me in anther thread I will try to find it PM you a link. I just feel good about my cat and I talked to a girl today. I more concern about my present and moving forward.

I watched the interview with Jaycee Lee Dugard and want to read her book but don't know it I can handle it she works with horses and I have my cats


Amazon.com: A Stolen Life: A Memoir (9781451629187): Jaycee Dugard: Books

I some time feel I have a weak personalty you here about people like Jaycee and holocaust survives my abuse was not that bad but I was talking to my mom and every friday I would not talk and have my head down and all she would do it buy me milk shake.


Scott

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by Lanya

She doesn't seem to be around to clarify, but you might be interested in Angela's posts in this thread.

This thread is so beautiful to me. I just read through the whole thing. I fumble around with what I might be looking for, but this thread clearly is it. The words just came to me: "Healing without scars."

This reinforces a certainty I have that all wounds can be healed. It is the most beautiful thing for me to see how amazingly free we can be if we choose.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Wow AaronB, is this really true? You feel you haven't had anything difficult thrown at you? This is because you have nothing with which to compare your abused childhood. Listen Aaron, I have hit my kids too. I know I did wrong. It fills me with shame and guilt and so it should. These feelings remind me to extend my apologies to you too. I'm so sorry for what we as parents inflict on our children. If we are to break these cycles of abuse, the whole truth must be told from all sides. You are a part of this huge picture and thankyou for being in the other thread with me. I read every word. You touched my heart in a way I couldn't understand. Perhaps now I do. Luv to you, Paula

My experiences seem to be leading me towards developing a certainty in life about everything. It does not always seem this way though. It is like life gives me the raw material to work with. You would think we would start out by drinking milk when we are little, and eating courser foods when we are ready. But life does not seem to be so gentle. Some of us are given stones to eat when we are still children. Things I can handle easily now were not easy for me as a child. But over time, it all gets digested, fully incorporated into my being. And as this material fully digests, an impervious clarity results. Then I find myself eating rocks, and they are now delicious and nutritious. All of reality is consumable, once I learn to digest it.

I've gone through many feelings related to your thread. Most recently I was feeling frustrated. I was feeling rejected. And so I decided that you were being stubborn, that you had a problem. Of course this decision, that somebody else has "the problem", doesn't occur until after the moment I feel rejected myself. Then a hurt is there, and I need to place responsibility for it on somebody else or on myself. Then when you respond here I felt guilty for feeling that way. But then something beautiful comes to me next, the recognition that I have sooooo much to learn from you. Maguru is the expert on Maguru. You know you so much better than anyone else. By sharing this with the world, everything that you are, we are all learning a lesson that is only yours to share. I feel grateful for your patience with me.

I recently was so happy to read in your thread how angry you were at the whole situation, and the anger felt so good to me. It felt like a step out of the shrouds of guilt that have plagued you.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

Another thing I am finding, that we should keep in mind, is that the farther away I get from my own suffering, and the better I make my life, I find the less I can remember how it felt to be in the position those people are still in, which also leaves me a little at a loss for how to help them. If I delve into my own past, I might be able to remember, but I am convinced there must be a good way to help without having to revisit the pain of it.

Anyway, I am not so far along on my own path to begin looking at helping others - which I had tried doing for years while I was suicidal, ironically.

I do believe it is possible to heal to the extent that you say, but I know it would take an incredible amount of will power and, for me personally, I don't think I have enough years left in my life to get to that place. And then there is the question of exactly how healed do you mean? Because does anyone really exist who is 100% unaffected by things from their past? Even if the past was easy, or even a fairy tale, people are still functioning on the basis of how they were treated and raised, it is just not an issue for people with easy pasts, because they either don't suffer from it, or they don't suffer enough to make them stand out in society in some way.

I also find your last paragraph interesting, mostly because if I had a dime for every "new-ager/PD-er" who told me I can't love anyone else until I love myself, I could quit working.

Btw, I'm writing a diary of my healing path that I hope might be a book some day .

When the words Healing without scars went through my mind, I thought of you. It's so beautiful to see someone who has gone through a gauntlet of difficult experiences coming out clear and clean.

I used to have my painful stories to tell, but as they healed they started feeling more and more phony, until I couldn't even describe my past struggles. They were meaningless, like something that happened to somebody else. The effort of recalling them became more and more difficult. It is as if they fell out of significance. Like a constellation in the sky that has slowly dispersed beyond being able to point at it and see what I used to see. Only the details are left, and none of them compelling.

What I am realizing that might be helpful, even as I see myself forgetting every difficulty, to the point that I don't remember anything difficult having ever happened, is that these difficulties are being replaced by a certainty of the wholeness within each of us. I see anybody in any situation, and I see them so completely whole, it's like it's right there around the corner, just waiting to be realized. With every wound I allow to be healed, I become more certain of the freedom that belongs to all of us.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by AaronB

My experiences seem to be leading me towards developing a certainty in life about everything. It does not always seem this way though. It is like life gives me the raw material to work with. You would think we would start out by drinking milk when we are little, and eating courser foods when we are ready. But life does not seem to be so gentle. Some of us are given stones to eat when we are still children. Things I can handle easily now were not easy for me as a child. But over time, it all gets digested, fully incorporated into my being. And as this material fully digests, an impervious clarity results. Then I find myself eating rocks, and they are now delicious and nutritious. All of reality is consumable, once I learn to digest it.

I've gone through many feelings related to your thread. Most recently I was feeling frustrated. I was feeling rejected. And so I decided that you were being stubborn, that you had a problem. Of course this decision, that somebody else has "the problem", doesn't occur until after the moment I feel rejected myself. Then a hurt is there, and I need to place responsibility for it on somebody else or on myself. Then when you respond here I felt guilty for feeling that way. But then something beautiful comes to me next, the recognition that I have sooooo much to learn from you. Maguru is the expert on Maguru. You know you so much better than anyone else. By sharing this with the world, everything that you are, we are all learning a lesson that is only yours to share. I feel grateful for your patience with me.

I recently was so happy to read in your thread how angry you were at the whole situation, and the anger felt so good to me. It felt like a step out of the shrouds of guilt that have plagued you.

This feels so good, Aaron. I sensed you wanted to help and I also sensed a need in me to take care of you. I was just in too much of a mess and I did feel bad not responding to you. I am sorry but I knew you were in capable hands. Yes, it was important to me for you to be there.

My anger was wonderful though I felt bad after writing what I did, but through the anger I was able to see what is best for me. We are all our own experts and know what is right for us as unique individuals.

Aaron, I don't know if it's possible to truly heal but I am sure that we can make a difference. I believe we are pioneering a new understanding of each other and it's wonderful. I love your openess and honesty and I take my hat off to you.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by AaronB

When the words Healing without scars went through my mind, I thought of you. It's so beautiful to see someone who has gone through a gauntlet of difficult experiences coming out clear and clean.

Wow, thanks I'm not at that "healing without scars" place yet.

I know enough about Angela, too, to know she has scars, at the least - and I'm very skeptical if she's healed from everything. Of all people to take as an example...I could never be like her and would never want anyone else to be either.

I also don't subscribe to the strange practice of feeling grateful for people who wronged you, unless it was their intention to help you. If someone helps you with a good intention, it's right and good to feel thankful. If someone does something that hurts you and they either intended to hurt you or don't care one way or the other, I think it is phony and pretentious to go around expressing gratitude to or about them. If you can look back and feel grateful for something bad happening to you, then you should feel grateful to God or to something greater, but not to the specific ones who wronged you.

I had a horrific 5-year experience with a guy I was profoundly in love with. He and my experience with him is the reason I did not kill myself and the reason I set out specifically on my path in 2008 to heal myself. Does that mean I am grateful to him for the torturing we went through together? Hell no. Especially since I can give myself "credit" for at least half of the torturing. It just means to me that he led me to where I am now and he was able to do that because of the great power he had over me through my love.

I am kind of glad, though, that the relationship mentioned above led to my burning all the diaries I kept of my life since I was age 10, because with that, I took the biggest step to letting go of my dismal past and it was freeing.

All of my own painful stories were recorded in those diaries. I had thought I would one day write a book about my life to get back at my family and I was really clinging to that. I believe that burning them was the beginning of the metamorphosis I am in the midst of now, and the catalyst for the burning was something this guy did that almost killed me - on a personal level, I am categorically NOT grateful for that or for what he did, but I am glad I could let go of those diaries and all they represented.

I've come a long way since then, and while I can't say I feel grateful to any one person offhand, I can say I'm grateful for this website and this forum (which I found in 2006 just before I burned my diaries), or at least I feel lucky to have found the things I found on it, because I have mostly by accident found most of the information and guidance on here which has enabled me to make the progress I have made.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

I know enough about Angela, too, to know she has scars, at the least - and I'm very skeptical if she's healed from everything. Of all people to take as an example...I could never be like her and would never want anyone else to be either.

I also don't subscribe to the strange practice of feeling grateful for people who wronged you, unless it was their intention to help you. If someone helps you with a good intention, it's right and good to feel thankful. If someone does something that hurts you and they either intended to hurt you or don't care one way or the other, I think it is phony and pretentious to go around expressing gratitude to or about them. If you can look back and feel grateful for something bad happening to you, then you should feel grateful to God or to something greater, but not to the specific ones who wronged you.

My favorite quality of Angela's is what I would call her ruthless devotion to freedom from being a victim. She is merciless and without pity. Of course I'm speaking only of the little I have seen, but her devotion to the freedom of those she connects with is unstoppable. No matter how validated anyone feels in their brokenness, she only supports them in the fullness of their completion. Not only can any internal obstacle be hurdled, it can be done so a lot easier than we might think. For me she is a role model in that sense. To see someone really let go of burdens they have carried for years, to see all the heaviness lifted off in a moment, that is amazing to me. I have seen lots of tears of relief in my life as someone decides to put down a heaviness they have carried for so long. A lightness and a new freedom. A gratitude for everything is natural, because right now is so complete that anything leading to the perfection of this moment has either supported it or failed to disturb it.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by AaronB

My favorite quality of Angela's is what I would call her ruthless devotion to freedom from being a victim. Not only can any internal obstacle be hurdled, it can be done so a lot easier than we might think.
For me she is a role model in that sense.
To see someone really let go of burdens they have carried for years, to see all the heaviness lifted off in a moment, that is amazing to me. I have seen lots of tears of relief in my life as someone decides to put down a heaviness they have carried for so long. A lightness and a new freedom. A gratitude for everything is natural, because right now is so complete that anything leading to the perfection of this moment has either supported it or failed to disturb it.

This was also well said. Good for you! Aaron

[forexpreneur]

I am a survivor but I refuse to use the term “sexual abuse” as this does not do justice to the hell that I endured as a young and small boy. I was raped twice by a father figure when I was about 5 years old. Luckily he was forced out of my life when I was 6. Unfortunately I was moved into the lair of a family member who repeatedly raped me over about a year and a half time span (my childhood memories have many black holes and partial memories). Apparently that wasn’t enough sex for my little soul to endure so I was also molested by a church leader during a church summer camp when I was 10. I was never sexually violated by my second father figure nor anyone else after 10 years of age, but there were a few incidents of physical abuse, and quite a bit of mental and emotional abuse growing up.

I would love to be able to tell you that everything is healed and that my life is peachy. However that is not entirely true. I am still healing, but am making incredible progress. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the emotional scars are not permanent, however removing the painful energy is not easy and it does take time, persistence and help.

As is usually the case with sexually violated children, the abuse I endured was not just sexual, but it was also physical, mental and emotional ALONG with the other physical, mental and emotional abuse from others. Yes mental and emotional are separate things.

Obviously I did have people who deeply loved and cared for me throughout my life journey as a child or I would not be alive today. One is my mother who was oblivious to the sexual abuse, and did not know that there was physical abuse from others. There were also some close friends and luckily a couple of really caring and loving adult friends who did not take advantage of me.

I can also attest to the fact that there was some divine intervention in my life experience as a child, and again as an adult. One time was when I stuck a loaded gun to my head (I loaded it myself) and pulled the trigger and nothing happened except for a very loud “click”. The gun never malfunctioned previously, and never fired normally after that incident and was later destroyed because it didn't work properly.

The first time I was raped, as I was left lying there alone trying to mentally survive the hell I just experienced, a being of white light visited me (I was 5 years old or so and had never been to a church and my family wasn’t religious at that point, not until my next father figure) and this being of white light cried tears for me, spread it’s arms as if going to give me a hug and as it was shining bright white light on me said “Little one, it’s not your fault, remember you are always loved.” I felt comforting peace and fell asleep and have used that memory many times in my life.

How do I know that surviving the very depths of hell as a little child is not permanent? Because I have been able to erase the fear and other controlling negative emotional charges from events that were incredibly traumatic to me and remember them without the emotions. Let me be very clear, it’s not that I want to remember those events, it’s just that what happened can not be erased from memory. I can say that the ones that I have worked through no longer haunt me. They are just there. They are just facts without the emotional charge.

I have used EFT ( I now only use Faster EFT from Robert Smith Faster EFT.com - The official website of Robert G. Smith, creator of FasterEFT ), NLP, Brain Entrainment (Isochronic beats have been the most effective for me), hypnosis, and some other techniques. One technique that seems to be really incredible so far is Greene’s Release Technique. It has allowed me to dig deeper into some issues that I just couldn’t for some reason with EFT and other techniques.

As far as books, one of the most life changing books I have read is “Monsters and Magical Sticks” written by Steven Heller. I rate it as a must read for any abuse survivor whether sexual, physical, mental or emotional.

I am a well adjusted gay adult who just turned 40. I am very loving, and caring and very functional AND intelligent (I have a tested IQ of 146). I am very functional in society, but still have some self esteem issues, although I do have really decent self esteem overall. It’s just relationships I don’t have a lot of self esteem in. I know I am lovable, and know that I am handsome, but relationships are a major growth area I am working on. Not to get too personal, but sex is something that is a very delicate area for me. I have only been with three people sexually by choice, and with no one sexually in just over 10 years. Some survivors are very promiscuous. Others are extremely “protective” of themselves sexually. I am extremely “protective” of myself sexually and have never touched the playful side, and especially can not visit the “darker” side of sex like S&M. For the record, I have been through many hours of therapy and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that my being gay has nothing to do with being raped. Yes, it has had major effects on my sex life and other parts of my life but has not altered my sexuality. I am at peace with my sexual identity.

Oddly enough, or not, religion is an area I do not identify with very well. I consider myself a very spiritual person who believes in a loving and caring God. Religion to me is something that is dark and oppressive. I do have quite a few friends who consider themselves religious, but admittedly barriers come up with strangers who are outwardly religious. I try very hard not to, but I have been violated too many times by religion, especially with my being gay.

The first psychiatrist I was brought to after trying to kill myself asked about my being gay. He asked if I “wanted” to be gay. I said “No because society hates it so much, but I believe that I am and if that is the case I want to be at peace with it.” He looked me in the eyes and said “It is against my religion to help you if you are gay and if you are truly gay you will burn in hell with the other fagots.” Then this “wonderful and loving” (I can be a little dark in my humor sometimes ) religious person had the audacity to tell my parents that he couldn’t help me because I “wanted to be gay.” This was the 80’s with AIDS just becoming a known thing. So I slammed the door tight on my closet again and had a hell of a time coming out eventually.


So to close this, just understand that abuse causes many obstacles in a person’s life, but there is hope. Without a doubt, the more traumatic the abuse is, the stronger and bigger are the hurdles to overcome. The earlier in life the abuse occurs, the more complex and the more difficult to work through. The longer the abuse occurs, the more complex and the larger the quantity to work through, although there are some incredible techniques to bundle memories and get to the core issues. However, NOTHING causes permanent damage emotionally. Once a person works on their perception and beliefs the damage does heal if certain techniques are used.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by forexpreneur

NOTHING causes permanent damage emotionally. Once a person works on their perception and beliefs the damage does heal if certain techniques are used.

This is a really powerful statement and I respect it more coming from a background that almost everyone would agree gives you every right to be traumatized for the rest of your life. But instead you are choosing to live a life that is not traumatized, not miserable, perhaps even enjoyable. While there are many specific techniques that provide actual results, to me it seems inevitable that no matter how painfully unpleasant your life experience is now, it is possible to be have an experience that is joyful enough that you are actually glad to be alive. That even in spite of the difficulty, the joy you feel now is worth the pain you felt before. For me it took a while to reach a point where I would say this life is worth living just for what it has given me so far, because for the longest time the negative outweighed the positive.

Personally I have no difficulty with religious people who want to judge me, because I have seen often enough that this is the main reason of religion. For many people it has everything to do with judging others and very little to do with helping others. The help it offers is really just a promise to judge you less if you can become the thing it approves of. I say bring it on, judge me all you like and lets see if does either of us any good. In the end it is helpful to me, because I can learn to love myself more intensely than anyone can judge me, and it helps those who judge me, because eventually they realize they their judgment does no damage at all, and even contributed to the solidness with which I am able to love myself, so they have nothing to feel sorry about.

Regarding being gay, I am so happy how far the world has come since the 80's. Now there are still those that are judgmental, but it is the oddballs out there. Back in the 80's it was much more prevalent. I love seeing how over time the world is really becoming more accepting of each other. Thank you for sharing this story. What events in the past really set the limit on how much I can enjoy today? If someone like yourself is determined to live a life that they love, they will find it one way or another. And I love you and appreciate you for that amazing quality, of deciding that your life is worth enjoying.

[forexpreneur]

Originally Posted by AaronB

I say bring it on, judge me all you like and lets see if does either of us any good. In the end it is helpful to me, because I can learn to love myself more intensely than anyone can judge me, and it helps those who judge me, because eventually they realize they their judgment does no damage at all, and even contributed to the solidness with which I am able to love myself, so they have nothing to feel sorry about.

Very awesome to read your post. Thank you very much for sharing. I really like your attitude about people judging. I try very hard to not let the unfair judgment from others bother me, but every once in a while it triggers me. Most of the rare occasions that do happen, I usually have some really smart ass comment that just comes out of my mouth and it either pisses them off so much they look stupid and go away, or make them feel like an idiot and go away.

Thank you very much for your kind comments. It is greatly appreciated. I was hoping people would pick up the fact that I am not a negative person, but actually a very positive person, it's just a lot of very hurtful things happened to me and it takes a while to clear things out. If more people stood strong and did the same the World would be that much better.

Overall I do love my life these days and love how my life gets better almost on a daily basis. There are things I am very passionate about and plenty of reasons to inspire me to work hard and smarter everyday.

First off I know that working through my personal hell can be an inspiration for many others who struggle with surviving severe and long term child abuse. There are others who had it far worse than me, and I am fully aware of that, but what I survived is something no child should have to endure. Ever!

Secondly, some how, some way, I will have a major positive impact on helping abused children. Not directly, but in a major indirect way like starting a non-profit and helping to fund it, or finding another one and help it in a major way, etc. That has been a dream of mine for many, many years.

I also know what true, deep love is. There was someone who came into my life and absolutely caught me with my guard down. It was a non sexual relationship, but was very deep emotionally and was mutual. To hold someone in your arms and not feel threatened at all and to have them look you deep into your eyes and them say “I love you”, especially on quite a few occaisions with this person, and it’s not just words but you see it in their eyes, feel it in their smile, feel it through your entire body, mind and soul is something that is just so beautiful and so peaceful.

Even though I lost this person, those moments that were shared is something that I will absolutely never forget. I have come to realize that the love I felt for this person, and from this person, is something that has always been inside of me. I never could have felt that love if it did not exist inside of me. I was so proud and happy when I realized that because all the heartache I endured, and all the incredible pain I survived could not destroy the beautiful heart I have inside of me which is the real me anyway.

Sure, I still have some pain left to work on, and I am working on it all the time, but I have accomplished a lot already. I haven’t totally forgiven yet, but I am working on that and will accomplish it. But the journey so far is something I am proud to stand tall and say, “Was that the best you could throw at me? Because it didn’t destroy me, it has only made me stronger.”