I guess I'm gonna quit smoking...

[James81]

Originally Posted by sorter

You're still having difficulties on day 8.
I suggest a technique that takes care of the cravings in a day or two and you don't care.
Why is that? Could it be that smoking help is not what you're seeking?
I scratch my head.

Again, you might what to raise the bar on your idea of "working."
Day 8 or day 2. Let's see. Which is better? Hmm.


"Of course, as with your experience", said the existentialist.
.

Thank you for your perspective.

[sorter]

Originally Posted by James81

Thank you for your perspective.

What do you REALLY mean by that?
.

[James81]

Originally Posted by sorter

What do you REALLY mean by that?
.

It's kind of a nice way to say "**** off" without actually saying it. (But you asked...soo....)

[sorter]

Originally Posted by James81

It's kind of a nice way to say "**** off" without actually saying it. (But you asked...soo....)

If you'd clean your lungs out you wouldn't be so cranky.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by sorter

If you'd clean your lungs out you wouldn't be so cranky.

Thank you for your perspective!

[James81]

Originally Posted by sorter

If you'd clean your lungs out you wouldn't be so cranky.

Not cranky, just being direct. You're literally being no help to me in this thread, so you are free to keep commenting if you like, but it's not really helping me or doing anything for me.

[sorter]

Originally Posted by James81

Not cranky, just being direct. You're literally being no help to me in this thread, so you are free to keep commenting if you like, but it's not really helping me or doing anything for me.

NOT HELPING YOU! I give you something concrete to try and I'm not helping you??
I'm definitely helping. You're not taking it.

But then, if you ever admitted your real purpose for this thread, I wouldn't have bothered.
.

[sorter]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Thank you for your perspective!

Deja vu with you two.
If I felt like digging through some history I could show you what I mean.
.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by sorter

If I felt like digging through some history I could show you what I mean.

We know exactly what you mean. We just don't care.

[sorter]

Originally Posted by VinceG

We know exactly what you mean. We just don't care.

No you don't and yes you do.
.

[James81]

Originally Posted by sorter

NOT HELPING YOU! I give you something concrete to try and I'm not helping you??
I'm definitely helping. You're not taking it.

But then, if you ever admitted your real purpose for this thread, I wouldn't have bothered.
.

Sorry, dude, but what you're saying just isn't doing it for me.

But I don't think you're here for me. I think you're here for you. And I think if you'd stop pretending like you are here for me and just come out with whatever it is that is bothering you, we could actually get somewhere.

So, allow me to make it as crystal clear as I possibly can for you:

You are NOT, I repeat, NOT helping me in any way shape or form.

I am, however, willing to listen to whatever it is that's on your mind. But I've completely checked out from receiving advice from you, so giving me advice or trying to help me (as of right now anyway) is going to be wasting your time and the energy it takes to type it up.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by sorter

No you don't and yes you do.
.

Thank you for your perspective!

[sorter]

Originally Posted by James81

You are NOT, I repeat, NOT helping me in any way shape or form.

As far as you know.

Best case: if you had tried the technique I suggested and benefitted from it as much as I, I would have felt good.
So in that sense it's always been about me. Whether or not humans are
truly capable of altruism is debatable. A debate I don't think is important.

Beyond that I've fully admitted how I was here for a fascination with my responses with this type of thread and the dishonesty I see in you.
I've never pretended about anything. I just gave you a suggestion that you filed in the circular can. What eva.

What really fascinates me is that we've been here before (and Vince has defended you or vice-versa).
I've been one of the several that has said you think too much.
Now I see that's not true since you're thinking isn't for solving problems as much as for something else.
.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by sorter

As far as you know.

Best case: if you had tried the technique I suggested and benefitted from it as much as I, I would have felt good.
So in that sense it's always been about me. Whether or not humans are
truly capable of altruism is debatable. A debate I don't think is important.

Beyond that I've fully admitted how I was here for a fascination with my responses with this type of thread and the dishonesty I see in you.
I've never pretended about anything. I just gave you a suggestion that you filed in the circular can. What eva.

What really fascinates me is that we've been here before (and Vince has defended you or vice-versa).
I've been one of the several that has said you think too much.
Now I see that's not true since you're thinking isn't for solving problems as much as for something else.
.

Why would James want to try something if he didn't feel inspired to do so? I don't smoke but I went through the hyperventilating chest pounding procedure once just for giggles. I'm quite certain I've never done that before by accident.

But there is clearly some tension going on here. You are looking for James to respond in a certain way, and he isn't. That's how reality works sometimes. You then describe why his failure to comply signifies some character weaknesses on his part. I really like James's character. I like reading some of the details of his experiences. Sometimes the solutions seem less important than the depth of the experiences themselves.

My estimation of Sorter is also way above average in the sense that you often come up with ideas that I find thought provoking or useful. Because I find an unusual amount of usefulness (readily usable by me) in things you have said I'm more likely to read your posts.

I can relate to you in that sometimes I have felt the need to teach others, as if there was something I understood more clearly than they do and if only they listened they would be so much happier. I've grown a lot in that category, where now I realize what I say is at times not only found not useful, but more on the disturbing side (to put it lightly) to the person I want to help.

The net benefit for me is that even though what I say isn't useful at the time, I can still enjoy the vast color of responses people come up with. It's so relieving to not be as sensitive as I used to be. Now I actually find myself enjoying people that I used to feel rejected by.

[James81]

Originally Posted by sorter

As far as you know.

Best case: if you had tried the technique I suggested and benefitted from it as much as I, I would have felt good.
So in that sense it's always been about me. Whether or not humans are
truly capable of altruism is debatable. A debate I don't think is important.

Beyond that I've fully admitted how I was here for a fascination with my responses with this type of thread and the dishonesty I see in you.
I've never pretended about anything. I just gave you a suggestion that you filed in the circular can. What eva.

What really fascinates me is that we've been here before (and Vince has defended you or vice-versa).
I've been one of the several that has said you think too much.
Now I see that's not true since you're thinking isn't for solving problems as much as for something else.
.

You keep putting this over on me, but there's a reason you are persisting with this. And I'm willing to bet that if I keep on replying to you, it will come out.

Maybe we can start by asking you what you think my thinking is for?

[sorter]

You keep putting this over on me,
? Don't see that at all. I keep talking about my responses, my reaction to you.

but there's a reason you are persisting with this. And I'm willing to bet that if I keep on replying to you, it will come out.
That would be interesting.

Maybe we can start by asking you what you think my thinking is for?
For this thread I already said loneliness. You said you enjoy the responses (your word) or attention (mine).
And the idea the thinking about emotions is a way to avoid them.

One of my dilemmas is the idea that some of my advice requires skills that some people just don't have.
Some people don't have the ability to access their feelings (bodily sensations)
directly. They can only get close by thinking about their feelings.
So my approaches just won't work with them.
Or some people have enough trauma that my pointing to their sensations could cause a panic attack.

I don't know if any of that applies to you or not.

Generally, I'd rather err on the side of assuming there is always a way to
get my point across. And that anyone can do anything once it's explained
in concrete enough terms.
.

[James81]

Originally Posted by sorter

You keep putting this over on me,
? Don't see that at all. I keep talking about my responses, my reaction to you.

but there's a reason you are persisting with this. And I'm willing to bet that if I keep on replying to you, it will come out.
That would be interesting.

Maybe we can start by asking you what you think my thinking is for?
For this thread I already said loneliness. You said you enjoy the responses (your word) or attention (mine).
And the idea the thinking about emotions is a way to avoid them.

One of my dilemmas is the idea that some of my advice requires skills that some people just don't have.
Some people don't have the ability to access their feelings (bodily sensations)
directly. They can only get close by thinking about their feelings.
So my approaches just won't work with them.
Or some people have enough trauma that my pointing to their sensations could cause a panic attack.

I don't know if any of that applies to you or not.

Generally, I'd rather err on the side of assuming there is always a way to
get my point across. And that anyone can do anything once it's explained
in concrete enough terms.
.

Well, I wouldn't deny that one of the things I deal with is loneliness. Or, rather, loneliness in a relationship kind of way I mean. So, yeah, I've been down that road in terms of there are certain things that I do right now that are fillers for a lack of a relationship.

But I don't need to publicly go through my issues to get that attention. I know how to get it in other ways. I used to get it on other message boards in other ways, in fact. I see the public exploration of my internal issues as a win-win thing personally. It's a way for me to meet what is lacking from a relationship at the moment, while also sharing things that are insightful (and have been confirmed insightful by PMs from many people -- some of which I had no idea was reading my posts ).

The question then is this: why does that bother you?

[sorter]

I don't smoke but I went through the hyperventilating chest pounding procedure once just for giggles
I'm not sure what you did but hyperventilating isn't part of what I'm talking about.

You are looking for James to respond in a certain way, and he isn't.
No. Not really. His approach pushes my buttons. Or more "correctly", I let my buttons get pushed, but I don't think I'm looking for him to agree. More like
acknowledge or consider.

My estimation of Sorter is also way above average
Thanks. When I'm looking for good threads, I search on your posts and a few others.

It's so relieving to not be as sensitive as I used to be. Now I actually find myself enjoying people that I used to feel rejected by.
Hmm. Me too. I was sort of aware of that but you brought it fully to light.
.

[sorter]

Originally Posted by James81

The question then is this: why does that bother you?

My approach is to focus on my bodily sensations to let them breathe, develop, and relax.
Frequently, that causes answers to pop into my head. But I don't even
care about those answers. I do it until I feel fully engaged, fully relaxed,
and I know those feelings won't ever annoy me again.

It's kind of the reverse of asking a question and hoping the answer will
resolve a feeling. That's the hard way.
I know a million reasons for why I get annoyed, but they don't help all that much.

Why I get my buttons pushed doesn't matter. Engaging the feelings and owning them is all I care about.
When I accomplish that, I might still get angry but I won't notice it as an issue and won't act on it unless I want to. And I might still want to.
I'm sure anger isn't always bad but knowing when to use it and when not to is a constant judgement call.
.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by sorter

I don't smoke but I went through the hyperventilating chest pounding procedure once just for giggles
I'm not sure what you did but hyperventilating isn't part of what I'm talking about.

Oh... it looks like I messed up the parentheses, I read:

(Fully inhale via your mouth, then exhale through your nose) as fast as you can.
Do that 15 times.

Instead of:

Fully inhale via your mouth, (then exhale through your nose as fast as you can.)
Do that 15 times.

I was confused about the "if" you get light headed thing, I barely stayed conscious...

[sorter]

Originally Posted by AaronB

I was confused about the "if" you get light headed thing, I barely stayed conscious...

Yeah it's exhale as fast as you can, but do everything else slowly.
I have to keep reminding myself that faster is not better in this case.
.

[Cochonette]

LMAO. This page cracks me up.

Originally Posted by sorter

Especially when it isn't considered or tried.


Sure, when the issues involved are mental. If they're base in cravings, the autonomic nervous system, the body--then talking is missing the mark.
.

To some extent, you're right. But not 100%. Personally, I had to do a ton of research addressing the mental blocks before I came to discover a path to directly address the ANS. I doubt I could have gone straight for it because I tried that a year ago and it didn't work at all.

[Gabo]

@James: As someone who has never smoked (let alone try to quit), I personally find your insights about the experience to be very interesting. Please keep posting!

@sorter: I wish you the best of luck in getting whatever it is that you want from this thread (though I must say I have no idea what that is)

[sorter]

Originally Posted by Gabo

@James: As someone who has never smoked (let alone try to quit), I personally find your insights about the experience to be very interesting. Please keep posting!

@sorter: I wish you the best of luck in getting whatever it is that you want from this thread (though I must say I have no idea what that is)

Ra ra, sis boom ba. Go team.

[sorter]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

To some extent, you're right. But not 100%. Personally, I had to do a ton of research addressing the mental blocks before I came to discover a path to directly address the ANS. I doubt I could have gone straight for it because I tried that a year ago and it didn't work at all.

Well, I think it's a matter of knowing how. Directly accessing feelings
can be elusive since the thinking mind likes to chatter away.
I don't think you need to clear mental blocks before you can access feelings but it's interesting that it worked for you.

The trick is to set the thinking mind to the task, i.e. keep asking yourself questions about your feelings.
But don't care about the answers. Keep going back for more feelings.
"Thanks for the answer but what else haven't I noticed about the feelings?"
I can get at least a split second of raw sensation from that before my mind
wants to think about it.
Those split seconds add up to a wonderful release and usually some great insight.
.

[Spinoza]

Congradulations on your success so far. I'm sure your future awesome family situation appreciates it.

[awdye]

I tried that breathing exercise last night.

I burned my lips on the cigar towards the end...then threw up.

I think I'll try it with a milder blend next time.

[James81]

Through Day 9 and doing well. Occasionally dealing with some crankiness here and there, but it's pretty mild I think.

I think the biggest thing for me at the moment is wondering when I'm going to make that be all and end all decision to never do it again. It's still not a hard and fast, solid thing. It's still kinda rooted in the fact that I can't afford to smoke right now (even though there have been situations where I could have bought them or I could have bummed them from someone).

I wonder if I'll never truly make that decision. LOL. It's still a lingering thought in my head that I could smoke. But I do sort of overcome that thought with basic force of sorts and shut it down.

I can also smell smoke on people again. I can be walking and I'll smell a cigarette before I see it. I smelt it on my roommate last night when he came in the door (all the way across the room). I smell it in my room at my parents' house tonight (very faintly on all my clothes in the closet).

I can see how people think that it's a foul smell, but, personally, I kind of like it. I don't like the direct smell of smoke itself, but I do like the smell of someone who has JUST smoked. It's got a different smell to it than the smoke. (So, I'm guessing I won't be turning into one of those bitter ass ex-smokers who get militant about the smell.)

I won't be leaving the house here now until Sunday night, so I won't even have the opportunity again until then, so it's looking like I'll get days 10, 11, and 12 in too. I probably won't get any more money until next week, so I figure I'll probably be sitting at a solid two weeks before I have the financial means to actually buy cigarettes and smoke them on a daily basis again.

I'll be interested to see what happens at that point, and I'm also kind of hoping that over the next several days I get a little tighter in my resolves to not smoke. I've noticed that I'm starting to realize how much EASIER it is to not smoke. I mean, I don't have to worry about the smokefree campus thing anymore, I don't have to worry about them getting smashed in my pocket anymore (and I have that extra space in my pocket and I love it). I am also hoping that soon my acid reflux will start tapering off (because I think that smoking is what caused it) and I'll be able to come off the Prilosec pills I'm taking everyday. I'm also starting to get excited about the idea of running again, and am considering taking that up soon.

I have to admit, I am enjoying being smokefree, and I am glad that I have an opportunity to deal with some of the excess anxiety that smoking was helping to mask.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by James81

I wonder if I'll never truly make that decision. LOL. It's still a lingering thought in my head that I could smoke. But I do sort of overcome that thought with basic force of sorts and shut it down.

Maybe you don't ever have to make that decision for ever and ever. As long as you make that decision every day, for each day, that is good enough. And once you've been smoke free for 3 or 4 years, it would just seem like such a waste to throw that away for just one sigarette... Right?

Originally Posted by James81

I probably won't get any more money until next week, so I figure I'll probably be sitting at a solid two weeks before I have the financial means to actually buy cigarettes and smoke them on a daily basis again.

Maybe a fun thing would be to think about where you can take your kids, or what you can buy as an extra for your kids with that money instead?

[Gabo]

I like Sandra's approach here. Trying to make giving up smoking into a lifelong commitment can be a ton of pressure on yourself. It sounds like you're enjoying being smoke-free at the moment, so you don't have to worry about whether you'll keep doing that forever. Just enjoy today, and worry about tomorrow when it comes.