I guess I'm gonna quit smoking...

[Gabo]

Originally Posted by SatvikBeri

It's not disempowering. You can, and should, manipulate your environment when making major habit change. And as Steve says, "Your environment will eat your plans and goals for breakfast."

I must not have worded it properly, because I didn't mean to imply this!
I think changing your environment to affect personal changes is great. What I meant was that we should take ownership of our choices in life (including choices about how we affect our environment), and that we shouldn't attribute our successes to factors outside our control. That's what is disempowering.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Gabo

I must not have worded it properly, because I didn't mean to imply this!
I think changing your environment to affect personal changes is great. What I meant was that we should take ownership of our choices in life (including choices about how we affect our environment), and that we shouldn't attribute our successes to factors outside our control. That's what is disempowering.

Yeah, I got what you meant. Your post was actually helpful. Because I was making it seem like I had no choice but to quit smoking, but I really was choosing it. It was insightful to me because I think I use that pattern quite a bit...in order to make myself get things done, I have to make it seem like I have no other choice but to get those things done.

I'm at day 3 without a cig today (and this is the longest I have ever went with "cold turkey"...the other times I had to use a patch for a few days first).

I suppose if the science is right, then by the end of today any and all nicotine that was left in ye olde body should be flushed out. Which usually signals the beginning of the "foggy brain" for me.

You know there is certainly something different about this time. There's this underlying calm underneath it all, a weird calmness that even under the jittery hands and the fog that I feel in my head today, I don't feel *sad* like I have before. I think I dealt with the root of that sadness the other night when I came upon that "I can't help it" belief.

[James81]

Yikes, just realized something else too.

I was going to make a post about quitting on facebook, but then I started thinking about the various people on there and how I'd probably get a wave of "advice" on how to quit (stuff that I've heard 8000 times). And I was about to qualify it with "Please don't give me advice, just support."

And it dawned on me that I hate advice so much because it's "all" I've ever gotten (so to speak). And it's even funnier because I GIVE advice like it's going out of style, but I hate receiving it. I guess that means I've officially become like my parents. LOL!

But this is hugely insightful in terms of intimacy....that is, there's lots of times I won't share some of my innermost thoughts just because I predict that what I'll get is advice rather than support. And the thought of getting advice actually makes me wince. It's like getting smacked in the face to get advice, which is weird.

[James81]

That being said, I'm gonna share it and see what happens.

[James81]

Oh yeah, (quadruple post baby! LOL)....I almost forgot. This is the first time I haven't used some sort of replacement thing for the cig like suckers or pretzel rods or something like that. I think that's actually taken a lot of the edge off. I've just been *me*.....not me with a cig or me with a sucker stick. psychologically, I think it has been better for me to NOT use suckers or some sort of replacement. That was something interesting I've noticed.

Also, on the notion of support, I'm noticing that it's support of any kind that kinda makes me wince. It's not just advice, it's support too that make me wince. Like a "Good job!" or "I'm so proud of you!" That stuff makes me wince. I guess I've been pushing out support for a while. Interesting.

[Lanya]

Originally Posted by James81

Oh yeah, (quadruple post baby! LOL)....I almost forgot. This is the first time I haven't used some sort of replacement thing for the cig like suckers or pretzel rods or something like that. I think that's actually taken a lot of the edge off. I've just been *me*.....not me with a cig or me with a sucker stick. psychologically, I think it has been better for me to NOT use suckers or some sort of replacement. That was something interesting I've noticed.

Also, on the notion of support, I'm noticing that it's support of any kind that kinda makes me wince. It's not just advice, it's support too that make me wince. Like a "Good job!" or "I'm so proud of you!" That stuff makes me wince. I guess I've been pushing out support for a while. Interesting.

You know, I used to have a friend who didn't drink alcohol out of morality. I also didn't drink (still don't), just because I didn't want to experiment with tipsiness, drunkenness, or be around drunk college people (also, I was underage :P).

And it always pissed me off when he made comments like, "You didn't go drinking? Good," as if I did it to conform to his moral standards. God, sometimes I wanted to drink just to spite him.

But I imagine you might have a reaction like that too, when you get those, "Good job!" type comments, that implicitly to label you as something you're not. Like a guy striving to become one of the "good guys" who don't smoke, who finally realizes he's a bad citizen for smoking, and who will look down upon those who still smoke.

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by Gabo

I must not have worded it properly, because I didn't mean to imply this!
I think changing your environment to affect personal changes is great. What I meant was that we should take ownership of our choices in life (including choices about how we affect our environment), and that we shouldn't attribute our successes to factors outside our control. That's what is disempowering.

Are you sure that's not what you meant to say?

View Post
Don't disempower your decision to stop smoking by attributing it to factors in your environment. As wolfgang points out, there are other means by which you could be smoking right now, yet you have chosen to not smoke. If you can choose to not smoke when you have no money, you can also choose not to smoke when you have money. You always have a choice.

So is it a decision to stop smoking or a decision to change your environment in order to support the decision to stop smoking?

I think James has ALREADY decided and chosen to stop smoking. He just hasn't figured out how to DIRECT himself to stop smoking. If I decide that I am going to climb a mountain and put tons of effort into making it happen, but end up putting it off and putting it off because 1) my mother passed away, 2) I sprained my ankle, 3) there was a blizzard, etc - or I do start climbing it, but I keep falling off halfway up - does that mean I never made the decision to climb that mountain?

No. I decided to climb a mountain. The problem is that it's difficult for me to climb the mountain! Maybe I don't have the skills yet to climb it, or the circumstances aren't conducive, or my body is not conditioned / strong enough for it. At some point, given enough time, James is going to stop smoking. He has already decided that.

The "100% responsibility" crowd is always saying either "you always have a choice" or "you're not ready yet." These two statements seem contradictory to me. I mean, they're not necessarily contradictory, but the way they're given as advice makes it seem that way. It's as if the most important thing in every instance has to be that "you always have a choice," not how to actually make the choice, and if you don't make the choice very soon, then the most important thing to know is that "you're not ready yet."

Why I'm sitting here typing this instead of looking up improv classes, uh... well, i know exactly why. That's gonna stop right now!

[James81]

Originally Posted by Lanya

You know, I used to have a friend who didn't drink alcohol out of morality. I also didn't drink (still don't), just because I didn't want to experiment with tipsiness, drunkenness, or be around drunk college people (also, I was underage :P).

And it always pissed me off when he made comments like, "You didn't go drinking? Good," as if I did it to conform to his moral standards. God, sometimes I wanted to drink just to spite him.

But I imagine you might have a reaction like that too, when you get those, "Good job!" type comments, that implicitly to label you as something you're not. Like a guy striving to become one of the "good guys" who don't smoke, who finally realizes he's a bad citizen for smoking, and who will look down upon those who still smoke.

Yes! You describe it very well. But I guess to react to such a thing is really to just give my power to it. I know the reasons with which I'm quitting and wanting to quit, I suppose I need to stop trying to justify that or be something I'm not just to "spite" other people.

Like, I suppose that if I am to announce that I'm quitting, then I *need* to make it sound really good, like I know for a FACT that I'll never smoke again, in order for people to believe it's a real attempt or that it will work. You can see that in this thread, with a few of the replies in the beginning. The "you are not ready" type of stuff that assumes if you can't just 100% decide to quit then you won't make it and that you shouldn't even bother until you are 100% ready.

But, with every quit attempt I learn something new. So even if I do end up smoking again, I would say that I've learned a few new things with this attempt. And, I'm also getting very used to this phase of the quitting process. All the different types of things that happen, what to expect, etc. Except the "foggy head" thing isn't as bad this time either. I have a little bit of that, but not much. We'll see how it gets as soon as the nicotine is out of my body. With my last attempt, I realized that I was very much addicted to the nicotine itself and that it was my brain missing that that produced these thoughts that convinced me to smoke again.

I'm slowly losing my fear of quitting. I remember how intimidating it used to be to try to quit. It's getting to be more routine now.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Are you sure that's not what you meant to say?



So is it a decision to stop smoking or a decision to change your environment in order to support the decision to stop smoking?

I think James has ALREADY decided and chosen to stop smoking. He just hasn't figured out how to DIRECT himself to stop smoking. If I decide that I am going to climb a mountain and put tons of effort into making it happen, but end up putting it off and putting it off because 1) my mother passed away, 2) I sprained my ankle, 3) there was a blizzard, etc - or I do start climbing it, but I keep falling off halfway up - does that mean I never made the decision to climb that mountain?

No. I decided to climb a mountain. The problem is that it's difficult for me to climb the mountain! Maybe I don't have the skills yet to climb it, or the circumstances aren't conducive, or my body is not conditioned / strong enough for it. At some point, given enough time, James is going to stop smoking. He has already decided that.

The "100% responsibility" crowd is always saying either "you always have a choice" or "you're not ready yet." These two statements seem contradictory to me. I mean, they're not necessarily contradictory, but the way they're given as advice makes it seem that way. It's as if the most important thing in every instance has to be that "you always have a choice," not how to actually make the choice, and if you don't make the choice very soon, then the most important thing to know is that "you're not ready yet."

Oh, wow, I like the way you put that. You're right, I *have* decided to stop smoking. I decided to stop smoking way back in 2007, actually, when I made my first serious quit attempt. And, for four long years, I've been adding to the strength and skills and desire it takes to quit for good. I like that a lot! And, truth be told, I've learned a LOT about how to quit in that time. And a lot about myself in the process of quitting.

It's the failure of going all the way up the mountain that gets me. It's something that has been on my mind a lot lately. The desire to just quit halfway up the mountain...the self-sabotage I do to fail. Lots of different stuff there.

***

Also noticed there were a lot of "you can do it" comments on my fb. I think that might be one of the trippiest things about stopping a habit (and Alan Carr talks about this in his book)....there IS nothing to do. There's just the decision to quit and then REJOICE! (yea, and again I say rejoice! )

I think it's the focusing on it, the talking about it, etc. that all still signal it's hold on me. I'll know I've quit when I am able to redirect my focus off the process of quitting, when I stop counting the days I've been smokefree, etc.

And I suppose I could choose to do that right now.

If I wanted to...

[Lanya]

Originally Posted by James81

Yes! You describe it very well. But I guess to react to such a thing is really to just give my power to it. I know the reasons with which I'm quitting and wanting to quit, I suppose I need to stop trying to justify that or be something I'm not just to "spite" other people.

I don't think it's such a bad thing to react, per se. My anger over my friend's comments just tells me more about what I want: Someone who really understands where I'm coming from.

Wild guess based on my massive projection :P : You would like support, or better put...to feel supported in your efforts to quit smoking. It's just...those people who say, "I'm so proud of you," while they're technically supporting you, aren't helping you feel supported.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Lanya

I don't think it's such a bad thing to react, per se. My anger over my friend's comments just tells me more about what I want: Someone who really understands where I'm coming from.

Wild guess based on my massive projection :P : You would like support, or better put...to feel supported in your efforts to quit smoking. It's just...those people who say, "I'm so proud of you," while they're technically supporting you, aren't helping you feel supported.

Yeah, you're onto the right track there I think.

And it's not just smoking really. It's that I'd like to *feel* more support in general. But it's funny because I've realized today that I am in conflict in that regard because when someone says "way to go" or "I'm rooting for you," my tendency is also to wince a little, like the feeling of support makes me wince.

So, it's like I want support but I am also not wanting it. lol

[Lanya]

They seem to have sneaky-ninja strings attached.

I know my reaction to that would be: I don't wanna let 'em down...

I noticed all four of the examples you mentioned are outcome-based. It's praise for being "good," which implies that they would punish you, or not praise you, for being "bad." It's support based on what you're doing, rather than support just 'cause you're you, and you being you is awesome.

Does that relate at all to you?

[SourLemons]

Originally Posted by James81

Yikes, just realized something else too.

I was going to make a post about quitting on facebook, but then I started thinking about the various people on there and how I'd probably get a wave of "advice" on how to quit (stuff that I've heard 8000 times). And I was about to qualify it with "Please don't give me advice, just support."

And it dawned on me that I hate advice so much because it's "all" I've ever gotten (so to speak). And it's even funnier because I GIVE advice like it's going out of style, but I hate receiving it. I guess that means I've officially become like my parents. LOL!

But this is hugely insightful in terms of intimacy....that is, there's lots of times I won't share some of my innermost thoughts just because I predict that what I'll get is advice rather than support. And the thought of getting advice actually makes me wince. It's like getting smacked in the face to get advice, which is weird.

I can see how it can be irritating receiving advice especially when the advices you receive has nothing to do with the problem you have and is given in a forceful manner. I think some people enjoy giving out advice because they makes them feel good about themselves - like it is a form of power.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Lanya

They seem to have sneaky-ninja strings attached.

I know my reaction to that would be: I don't wanna let 'em down...

I noticed all four of the examples you mentioned are outcome-based. It's praise for being "good," which implies that they would punish you, or not praise you, for being "bad." It's support based on what you're doing, rather than support just 'cause you're you, and you being you is awesome.

Does that relate at all to you?

Oh yeah, absolutely. That's the way I was raised. And people who "work hard" or who are "hard workers" are the ones who are deemed really awesome. Those that are lazy, well, they are just worthless.

So, yeah, it's the idea of being in a family that so quantifies acceptance as performance.

And, well, that's interesting because I've been seeing an internal reaction lately that has been my chief limitation of many years. The idea of an overwhelming situation, withdrawal, and ultimately avoidance.

Like my financial situation....like my trying to keep up with the pace of a program plus everything else involved with that...all of it is just pushing on those weak spots. And it's so scary that it's also paralyzing.

And then there's the utter lack of powerlessness I feel, knowing that to continue in the program I am in is directly controlled by someone's decision as to whether to keep me there.

I have found myself at many times seeing how being financially free could afford a lot of other freedoms.

Like they say that money don't solve all your problems, but, dammit, I could think of about 8 different problems that money would solve right now. (and I'm being serious)

And, well, I keep trying to tell myself that that's what I'm wanting to experience right now, and that's what I'm really trying to do with all this. That it's funny that quitting smoking is hinging on the fact that I can't afford to buy a pack of cigarettes right now instead of me actually deciding to quit.

I give lots of power away to money...and time...

[SatvikBeri]

Originally Posted by James81

Also, on the notion of support, I'm noticing that it's support of any kind that kinda makes me wince. It's not just advice, it's support too that make me wince. Like a "Good job!" or "I'm so proud of you!" That stuff makes me wince. I guess I've been pushing out support for a while. Interesting.

I don't particularly care if you quit, how's that for support? But it will be interesting to see if you can generate some REAL power, in terms of learning to direct your attention.

[Lanya]

That sounds like a very...fragile situation. Like all that effort, including coming face-to-face with kryptonite and saying, "Gotta overcome all this right now, fuuu--", could easily fall apart.

And time and money could resolve that easily, but you seem to think wanting that is a bad thing?

[Lauxa]

So did you get any comments on facebook that actually made you feel good?

I think that publicly posting something like that would make me feel a lot of pressure to succeed and that pressure would drive me towards the habits that I have traditionally used to self soothe.

I personally think using a transition to try a quit is a good strategy because a new environment probably doesn't contain as many triggers for the habit.

[James81]

Originally Posted by SatvikBeri

I don't particularly care if you quit, how's that for support? But it will be interesting to see if you can generate some REAL power, in terms of learning to direct your attention.

Yeah, directing my attention and focus are issues I'm struggling with as well. Especially when I need to focus my attention for long periods of time on school work and can't.

Originally Posted by Lanya

That sounds like a very...fragile situation. Like all that effort, including coming face-to-face with kryptonite and saying, "Gotta overcome all this right now, fuuu--", could easily fall apart.

And time and money could resolve that easily, but you seem to think wanting that is a bad thing?

I'm afraid of what money might do to me. At least that's the first thing I thought when I read your post. I guess a part of me things that by having a lot of money, I might lose some of the things that I feel are important, or change in some way to be something other than what I am.

It's sort of a weird belief to have, I suppose, but every time I think of myself changing away from what I am, I almost feel like I want to cry. Like I would be letting someone down, perhaps? I dunno, it's also strange that such a feeling would crop up in conjunction with money.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

So did you get any comments on facebook that actually made you feel good?

I think that publicly posting something like that would make me feel a lot of pressure to succeed and that pressure would drive me towards the habits that I have traditionally used to self soothe.

I personally think using a transition to try a quit is a good strategy because a new environment probably doesn't contain as many triggers for the habit.

The most touching thing is the sheer number of replies/likes for the post. Lots of different people threw in comments or just liked the post. That was cool.

[Lanya]

Originally Posted by James81

I'm afraid of what money might do to me. At least that's the first thing I thought when I read your post. I guess a part of me things that by having a lot of money, I might lose some of the things that I feel are important, or change in some way to be something other than what I am.

It's sort of a weird belief to have, I suppose, but every time I think of myself changing away from what I am, I almost feel like I want to cry. Like I would be letting someone down, perhaps? I dunno, it's also strange that such a feeling would crop up in conjunction with money.

Huh. Maybe those important things...are things that only show up when you're struggling with money...when you're trying to get something without using money (and perhaps time, too). Like it's the very act of getting something without money, that brings those things out.

[Senin]

At a certain point you just think of yourself as a non-smoker. Then this whole stupid thing won't even be an issue.

Try a bit of yoga.

[Lauxa]

Originally Posted by James81

It's sort of a weird belief to have, I suppose, but every time I think of myself changing away from what I am, I almost feel like I want to cry. Like I would be letting someone down, perhaps? I dunno, it's also strange that such a feeling would crop up in conjunction with money.

I would call that an ego reaction, your ego being heavily invested in who you are now and afraid to change. To ego, change is like death. I like to comfort my ego by letting her know that she will still have a role in my life because in my opinion ego is the progenitor of desire. But I remind her that she will have to let go a bit in order to actually achieve the desires. I would guess that you will have to make a big shift in order to achieve financial abundance.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by James81

It's sort of a weird belief to have, I suppose, but every time I think of myself changing away from what I am, I almost feel like I want to cry. Like I would be letting someone down, perhaps? I dunno, it's also strange that such a feeling would crop up in conjunction with money.

I realized within the last couple days that I have this too. I made a pretty major shift in the last few weeks and part of me is just really ambivalent about it -- logically, it's a good thing, but it's like I have this weird inner voice saying that it's not.

Meh.

I feel ya.

[James81]

Interesting quote I found tonight:

So the mind, through understanding itself at all its different levels, comes to a state when it is still. And this is not a long, tedious, tiresome, boring process. You know very well what you think and what you feel, if you are at all aware, sensitive to yourself. You do not have to be analysed, dissected, - that is a lazy man's game. But we know, actually inwardly, our own conflicts, and the cause of those conflicts, their significance, what lies behind them. But we don't want to look at it, we don't want to face it. And so, we play around in circles, never coming to the centre. -- Jiddu Krishnamurti

Rounding out the fourth day without a cig. One thing I was very aware of today is that my body itself did not have one single craving. That is, I did not ever find myself aware, at any moment, that my body itself wanted a cigarette. And, of course, that makes a lot of sense because the nicotine is gone at this point.

I did notice a couple of times wanting a cigarette, but it was purely a trigger of habit.

Not much in the way of a foggy brain today. My mind is a lot clearer than it has been in the past. I'm feeling a strength inside of me that I did not realize was there (or, rather, that I had forgotten was there).

I'm also getting pretty good at taking my thoughts and consciously shifting them away from the thoughts that I think lead me TO that foggy brain, down in the dumps feeling that I've had in times past.

I feel like I'm beating this habit, and that's a great feeling.

[OptimistPrime]

Would it make you wince if I told you that I think it's really inspiring how you're using this as a means to do personal development work?

[James81]

Originally Posted by OptimistPrime

Would it make you wince if I told you that I think it's really inspiring how you're using this as a means to do personal development work?

Nah, glad you're inspired. Turns out the wincing only comes from certain people (like, say, my parents for example). I discovered that yesterday. It's the people that I've tried individuate myself from that, when they actually agree with me or give me a "good job," causes the wincing. Which, ultimately just means I'm still living at effect to them.

I actually feel about ten feet tall and bulletproof tonight. That's pretty cool. Doesn't mean I've licked the habit (I've felt this way before during quit times), but it is nice to have a moment of clarity and inspiration.

[Lanya]

Originally Posted by James81

Nah, glad you're inspired. Turns out the wincing only comes from certain people (like, say, my parents for example). I discovered that yesterday. It's the people that I've tried individuate myself from that, when they actually agree with me or give me a "good job," causes the wincing. Which, ultimately just means I'm still living at effect to them.

I actually feel about ten feet tall and bulletproof tonight. That's pretty cool. Doesn't mean I've licked the habit (I've felt this way before during quit times), but it is nice to have a moment of clarity and inspiration.

Awesome. I find it interesting how feeling empowered and feeling tall always seem to pal around with each other. At least, that's how it's been for me. It just seems kind of odd that it would be a sensation of height, rather than feeling muscular or something.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by James81

Yeah, I got what you meant. Your post was actually helpful. Because I was making it seem like I had no choice but to quit smoking, but I really was choosing it. It was insightful to me because I think I use that pattern quite a bit...in order to make myself get things done, I have to make it seem like I have no other choice but to get those things done.

I'm at day 3 without a cig today (and this is the longest I have ever went with "cold turkey"...the other times I had to use a patch for a few days first).

I suppose if the science is right, then by the end of today any and all nicotine that was left in ye olde body should be flushed out. Which usually signals the beginning of the "foggy brain" for me.

You know there is certainly something different about this time. There's this underlying calm underneath it all, a weird calmness that even under the jittery hands and the fog that I feel in my head today, I don't feel *sad* like I have before. I think I dealt with the root of that sadness the other night when I came upon that "I can't help it" belief.

All the nicotine leaves your system after 3 days?? I heard it was after 3 weeks.

Also why are you quitting cold turkey, when you could just try Chantix or the patch?

[OptimistPrime]

If he's quitting because he can't afford to smoke, maybe he can't afford nicotine replacement therapy?

[James81]

I have some patches leftover from the last time, but at this point I've got almost 5 days in without it.

And I feel just the opposite as I did last night. LOL. For the past hour I've been sobbing like a baby. And you know, I'm not even sure if I know why really. I mean, tonight I moved up to my dorm room, but that shouldn't really cause such an emotional ruckus.

I think ye olde lack of nicotine is trying to hook on any and all possible thoughts to get me to cry, sob, I swear I'm a mess it's ridiculous.