Overcoming depression

[ImOpen]

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...ng-depression/

"Earlier this week I wrote about How to Help Negative People. But what if you’re the one who’s feeling chronically negative? In this article I’ll give you a process for helping yourself out of negative emotional states, not just temporarily but permanently."

This is a late response to an article Pavlina wrote a couple of months ago.
I got really saddened and to be honest - scared - when I read it. In one single article he will cure people from depression. Wow! Last week he helped negative people and this week it's time for the chronically depressed! Two-times-Wow!

Actually I thought this was so absurd (of course you can help depressed people but those who are clinically depressed need professional treatment) that I e-mailed Steve wondering what the heck he meant. He responded that if I understood the intention-manifestation model I would understand his ideas.

Well, I DO understand it but I also understand that when you are deeply depressed you cannot even control your own thoughts. This passage from the article is a prime example of the ignorance I felt was typical for the whole article:

"Another example: Suppose you’re feeling lonely. You notice you don’t have an intimate relationship, and that makes you feel lonely. But is it the absence of the relationship that makes you feel lonely? Or do you only feel lonely when you pay attention to the fact that you don’t have the relationship you desire? When you’re engrossed in a really good movie or a compelling book, you completely forget that you’re lonely, don’t you?"

Either he is kidding or he is misinformed. At least that's my conclusion.
What do you think about this? Can you think yourself out of serious mental illness?

I love some of his articles but this... I just cannot take it.

[JJP]

So we're talking about people who can't even control their own thoughts, eh? How do they manage using a computer and surfing the web, I wonder...

[ImOpen]

Originally Posted by JJP

So we're talking about people who can't even control their own thoughts, eh? How do they manage using a computer and surfing the web, I wonder...

It is much harder "keeping the blues away" when you are clin. depressed and the serotonine level in your brain is running dangerously low, than it is to operate a computer.

[JJP]

OK, so what's the big deal? I don't think Steve is misleading anyone, then. If it works for you, great, if it doesn't go to a doctor and get those serotonine levels increased.

[Brendon Colby]

This is probably one of the top five most helpful things I've ever read. I don't know about "serious mental illness" but I struggled on and off for years with deep depression. This post helped me realize that trying to think myself out of my depression wasn't the best solution (which was what I always attempted to do).

This is why some of the most intelligent people can get stuck in long-term depression and even commit suicide.

After endless frustration trying to reason their way out of depression, many people settle for temporary relief through medication, alcohol, drugs, TV, video games, or other habits that lower their awareness.

This describes how my situation was exactly. I tried thinking my way out of it and when that didn't work I medicated with food, TV and alcohol. The post also got me thinking about I want, even if I had to imagine it. This helped me break that negative thought -> emotion feedback loop that kept me paralyzed in many ways for years. I just stopped focusing my attention on negativity (what I thought was wrong, stuff that's happened to me, my current situation) and started focusing it on what I wanted.

[ImOpen]

Originally Posted by JJP

OK, so what's the big deal? I don't think Steve is misleading anyone, then. If it works for you, great, if it doesn't go to a doctor and get those serotonine levels increased.

The big deal is that people not aware of what clin. depr. is and who suffers from it will read things like this, try the strategies, and thus prolonging the time that pass before treatment, which is very unfortunate considering the fact that depression could get much worse over time.


Brendon: Sweet! But chances are that you did not suffer from clin. depr. Were you diagnosed with it?

[helgi]

As I said in another thread: had I gone to a psychiatrist a few years ago when I was severely depressed, up to the point of hardly functioning in daily life anymore, I'm more than certain that he or she would've labeled me as clinically depressed and thrown me some happy pills.

Again, I am not a medical professional so this is only speaking from experience, but I firmly believe that finding peace through suffering is a natural and universal human experience. Some people have to suffer more than others, but with more suffering comes a greater opportunity of transformation.

From my amateur perspective, anti-depressants are probably useful in severe cases as a tool to help people out of the deepest of holes, but only if used as a crutch to then go through other forms of therapy and not a solution in and of itself.

[ImOpen]

Helgi, you are right. It shouldn't be a "solution in and of itself". But I think, and one million professionals agree with me (I'm just a layman myself), that that crutch is very necessary in this situation.

I think it would have been very suitable if Pavlina had admitted that the "intention-manifestation strategy" is not what you need in this extreme situation and also if he had admitted that clin. depr. even exists and that it is a problem of not only mind but body to.... like cancer or a cold.

Noone is writing articles about thinking yourself free from cancer.... right?

[dorothy hanna]

Hi ImOpen,
I went to a psychiatrist for a couple of years. He wanted to give me either tranqualizers, or anti-depressants, but I refused him. Yes, I was suicidal, and spent two weeks on the psych-ward on suicide watch, and had attempted such in the past.
The reason I refused medication was that I did not want this all to become a way of life. Pills, and trips to the psych-ward. I did however accept therapy, every week, for 2 years, with the strong (how shall I phrase this) INTENTION, of changing my living experience.
I made mantra's for myself to say on an ongoing basis, as needed. One of these was, "Life is good, Life is good, Life is always good". Another was, when experiencing a particularly difficult day, was to focus on, and/or repeat, "This, too, shall pass".
Another thing I began to do was to conciously go around and smile. I smiled, and smiled, and smiled. I smiled at myself in the mirror, as often as possable.
I smiled until I thought my face was going to crack, but I did not relent.
Another thing I took to doing was singing this song to myself, "Getting to know you". I sang it when depression was so heavy on me, I could barely get a breath in or out of me, but I sang it, feebly at first, but when I finished, I said, outloud to myself, AGAIN!!! And I sang it again, and again, and again. Of course, this drove everyone around me crazy, but when they expressed such, I told them, "Well, if you think your going crazy, than do so. I highly reccomend a 2 week stay at our local psych ward. It does wonders for ones character.
One reason I had this reaction to my family complaining about my constantly singing, was it became apparent to me, that they had fully embraced, and accepted my depression, and viewed that as acceptable for me, but somehow, they weren't going to tolerate my singing. I was singing and dancing for MY LIFE. I wanted to survive, yes, but more than this. I wanted to thrive.
Guess what? It worked. I survived my depression, which ruled 29 years of my life. And my family survived my singing.
I have great epathy for those with mental illness, and such. It can be a devistating thing. And I do know that many will choose not to survive it, and so I always reccomend that one go see a doctor, and get help. I cannot tell them to refuse medication, but I do suggest to them, that it might be reserved as a last resort, should nothing else work. And it does take work.
I changed my diet, I began taking hour long walks twice a day. I stopped being around negative people, and watching negative programs, or reading negative material, and I sang any enablers, I had around me, into submission. Meaning, I had to get them to stop going along, or playing their part in my situation, or stop them from doing whatever they were doing that went along with the pattern of my depression. It had become a vicious cycle, and I wanted out. Of course, they didn't want out of it, as apparently, they were getting something out of it, in some strange dysfunctional-family type situation.
So, in short, I do understand your concern. But, really, nothing that Steve Pavlina writes is going to cause harm to anyone.

[jmschien]

I have experienced clinical depression at several points in my life (as an adolescent experiencing a family relocation; as a 31 year old going through a divorce, and after losing my boyfriend to cancer). In each instance, I forgot how to feel good. My physcian explained this to me and prescribed an addictive drug to help me balance the extremes that I was experiencing. He gave me a limited prescription so I would not become addicted. The drugs (and the management of them) helped me through a serious depression. Once I began to feel better, I could gain control of my life.

I believe there is a balance between medication and "thoughtful medication". Drugs have enabled me to restore my ability to function. If you have a physcian who understands the short term and the long term consequences of medication, you will be able to restore balance in your life.

Do not be afraid of medication. Be educated about medication.

Joni

[Zulu]

Hi ImOpen,

I think Steve Pavlina is right on! And I think what he's written is going to be a crucial social revelation once we start thinking how we percieve grief and depression.

Case in point: the best treatment for depression is cognitive behavior therapy. It's all about the content of your thoughts. How you THINK is how you FEEL.

In medical school we learned all about SSRI, tricyclic anti-depressants, etc. But personally, I agree 100% with Steve.

Is someone is severely depressed, electroshock therapy can be very beneficial (it's safe).

For someone with a great lack of motivation, ritalin can help in the short-term.

Exercise, light therapy, omega-3s all play a big role in helping to alleviate depression.

[ImOpen]

Originally Posted by Zulu

Hi ImOpen,

I think Steve Pavlina is right on! And I think what he's written is going to be a crucial social revelation once we start thinking how we percieve grief and depression.

Case in point: the best treatment for depression is cognitive behavior therapy. It's all about the content of your thoughts. How you THINK is how you FEEL.

In medical school we learned all about SSRI, tricyclic anti-depressants, etc. But personally, I agree 100% with Steve.

Is someone is severely depressed, electroshock therapy can be very beneficial (it's safe).

For someone with a great lack of motivation, ritalin can help in the short-term.

Exercise, light therapy, omega-3s all play a big role in helping to alleviate depression.

Hehe Pavlinas idea are not that bad in some aspects, but they are not his. They're a couple of thousand years old.


Electroshock therapy is not completely safe.
And some scientist argue that light therapy has no effect.

[Zulu]

Well, electroshock therapy has been associated to short-term reversible amnesia. That's pretty much it. And when compared to the risk of suicide, I'd say it's definitely worth a shot if you're in dire straigts. It's pretty much the most accepted kind of psychiatric treatment for depression.

Light therapy definitely works for people afflicted with seasonal depression (which most depressions aren't, however).

Cheers,

Paul

[DQueens]

sometimes i find it hard to understand where steve is coming from with his articles. at time he can seem like he is writing them from up on his high horse, or with a certain amount of pretensiousness that i find it hard to relate to. however, the more i think about it, the more his article makes sense. i mean, if you are clinically depressed, i completely agree that you may be beyond taking matters into your own hands, and may need to seek professional help or medication. but is medication the only solution? taking a pill everyday for the rest of your life to feel normal is usually not the solution to a problem as complicated and severe as depression and sooner or later, the pills may not work anymore. usually patients are also prescribed cognitive behavioural therapy or some kind of psychiatric help, and in order for that to work, the patient needs to change his/her own mind set and be completely invested in becoming better. there is only so much that professional and medical help can do to help depression and i think that the basis of steve's article is that you can control your own thoughts and mood, and for intelligent people it helps to take responsibility for them and your depression and try to overcome it. i'm sure he is not telling the very depressed to forgo treatment and "stop being silly, you can do it on your own..." but that he is saying "there is something YOU can do about it, and you are not a victim of your mood or thoughts as much as you think you are".

[scottyp]

Surrounding yourself with positive people makes a big big difference.

Also, being alone seems to make depression worse, especially in my case. It's good to have some activities that can get your mind off it...

[JohnnyJimJams]

Originally Posted by dorothy hanna

Hi ImOpen,
I went to a psychiatrist for a couple of years. He wanted to give me either tranqualizers, or anti-depressants, but I refused him. Yes, I was suicidal, and spent two weeks on the psych-ward on suicide watch, and had attempted such in the past.
The reason I refused medication was that I did not want this all to become a way of life. Pills, and trips to the psych-ward. I did however accept therapy, every week, for 2 years, with the strong (how shall I phrase this) INTENTION, of changing my living experience.
I made mantra's for myself to say on an ongoing basis, as needed. One of these was, "Life is good, Life is good, Life is always good". Another was, when experiencing a particularly difficult day, was to focus on, and/or repeat, "This, too, shall pass".
Another thing I began to do was to conciously go around and smile. I smiled, and smiled, and smiled. I smiled at myself in the mirror, as often as possable.
I smiled until I thought my face was going to crack, but I did not relent.
Another thing I took to doing was singing this song to myself, "Getting to know you". I sang it when depression was so heavy on me, I could barely get a breath in or out of me, but I sang it, feebly at first, but when I finished, I said, outloud to myself, AGAIN!!! And I sang it again, and again, and again. Of course, this drove everyone around me crazy, but when they expressed such, I told them, "Well, if you think your going crazy, than do so. I highly reccomend a 2 week stay at our local psych ward. It does wonders for ones character.
One reason I had this reaction to my family complaining about my constantly singing, was it became apparent to me, that they had fully embraced, and accepted my depression, and viewed that as acceptable for me, but somehow, they weren't going to tolerate my singing. I was singing and dancing for MY LIFE. I wanted to survive, yes, but more than this. I wanted to thrive.
Guess what? It worked. I survived my depression, which ruled 29 years of my life. And my family survived my singing.
I have great epathy for those with mental illness, and such. It can be a devistating thing. And I do know that many will choose not to survive it, and so I always reccomend that one go see a doctor, and get help. I cannot tell them to refuse medication, but I do suggest to them, that it might be reserved as a last resort, should nothing else work. And it does take work.
I changed my diet, I began taking hour long walks twice a day. I stopped being around negative people, and watching negative programs, or reading negative material, and I sang any enablers, I had around me, into submission. Meaning, I had to get them to stop going along, or playing their part in my situation, or stop them from doing whatever they were doing that went along with the pattern of my depression. It had become a vicious cycle, and I wanted out. Of course, they didn't want out of it, as apparently, they were getting something out of it, in some strange dysfunctional-family type situation.
So, in short, I do understand your concern. But, really, nothing that Steve Pavlina writes is going to cause harm to anyone.

Great post Dorothy.

Struck a cord with me, and Steve's article had the same effect on me.

I've had 6 months therapy for anxiety and it really helped me get grounded and get my head to a place where I could think rationally. From there I have been studying personal development daily for about 2 years now.

I still get anxiety and depression, it comes in bouts of roughly 5-10 days and then vanishes for 5-10. The good news is that this ratio is a lot better than it was 2 years ago, and is improving all the time.

I've gone back and reread Steves article and at no point did I think that this was the one off, one and only sure fire miracle cure. But it definately helped.

Thanks Steve, keep up the great work.

[ABlix]

I have been strugging with depression on and off for a few years. This has a lot to do, in my opinion, to the lack of friends that I have and a complete lack of social life. Thing is, being this lonely sometimes puts me in such a negative thinking state, and having high expectations of myself really puts me down. This renders me completely silent. I can no longer complain to others, because I would feel even worse about complaining to others about my state. Could I ask for help? Hi, I'm depressed. I need a friend! What? I don't feel right saying that.

It comes in cycles, and the cycle of non-depression has been getting longer and longer. I believe, as Girban Ghengis (or something) writes in The Prophet, our heart goes in seasons and we have much to learn from both our sorrow and joy. I feel completely reborn after overcoming depression and each time I am liking my character more and more once I step out of it.

Thing is, I adapt to a bunch of negative habits while depressed. Such as, playing video games, doing things of no value, masturbation to the excess (such as 10 times in a row), yelling at the top of my lungs when no one is around, blaming others, failing to take responsibility, list goes on and on. It is almost as I cause my own depression.

I feel that I have learning to channel my sexual energy will help me a lot, and I am confident that I will be able to keep a baseline state of work. Maybe I overdo the social thing a lot when I am not depressed, and talk to much and not get enough work done. Once I balance the two together, everything will fall into place. I need to get my "industry" up. Also, when I am not depressed I tend to "hop" social circles. I should instead concentrate on building rapport with the people that I can most relate to and mutually benefit from. Not change my social setting every two minutes because I get bored once the conversation dies down. Keep everything in perspective, love others.

Anyway, what helped me yesterday, is my little secret book. The Power of Now awoke me two weeks ago, this time it was the Tao of Pooh. I feel once we stop struggling, everything is fine. I must have read the Tao of Pooh over a million times. Re-reading it is great, I highly recommend it. I have also tried EFT yesterday, but I never really dove into it. Maybe took 5 minutes after reading about it for 10 minutes. I feel going on a desperate READING to improve yourself does not help, unless you find your courage to apply what you read and believe in yourself. All you have to do is believe in yourself, and there is power in every single one of us that is waiting to be let out. By who? Why of course, you! You must take action through inaction is my take on it. Now, if only I can follow through on this all the time.

Now, as far as Steve's method - I do believe it can help a great deal if you are starting to feel like you are falling in depression while you are not completely depressed. For me also, I need to avoid setting huge long-term goals of environmental properity and balance and then get impatient with myself. It is a responsibility that I need to take, but I also need to stop struggling and let everything come at its own excellent time. Commit yourself to service to others, but don't become timid in asking for help. That's what I need to do. Need a piece of paper at school? Get one? Need the homework because you didn't do it? Get through it, get good grades. Learn as much practical knowledge as you can. Question everything, don't be afraid to be wrong. Soak up as much knowledge as possible. Not just for the sake of knowledge, but for the sake of everyone else. Help others with knowledge. Have fun! Don't be afraid to act like who you are, a seventeen year old teenager.

That's just me, a little rant to myself, who knows maybe it will help others my age.

Sorry for the lack of organization, and a main point. It seems as if I was mainly talking to myself.

and dorothy: I love how you helped yourself through song. It's very inspiring to all. Love song. Song = life.

[elainevdw]

I think your issues with Steve's article have to do with what kind of depression he's talking about. There's depression, then there's clinical depression. There's depression caused by faulty thought processes, and depression caused by physical problems (such as an inactive thyroid).

My brother was suicidal in high school, hospitalized on suicide watch, and perscribed drugs. Those drugs may have gotten him out of the red zone. After he was in the limbo of "these drugs keep me from being sad, but they also keep me from being happy" for a few years, he decided to take himself off of them -- through exercise, diet, and his own version of cognitive behavioral strategies.

He was diagnosed as bipolar but is managing it extremely well without drugs, over five years later.

Most people who are in the throes of depression can greatly benefit from Steve's article. Those who need a little extra help from a psychiatrist can certainly get it, and then move on to the psychological ramifications.

I'm sure you're sensitive to this article because either you or those you love have suffered through serious depression -- but remember, the article is just another tool among many that's available to those who need it.

[maryelyn]

...and i cannot emphasize strongly enough that this was for ME - and as i am sure you all realize, i AM the only 'consciousness' in my world...

i've had some very severe episodes of depression. for almost ten years, i was in therapy, i was seeing a shrink once a month, i was medicated, i was suicidal at times, i was hospitalized in an outpatient program for months at a time, i was sad, angry, frustrated...

and i finally reached the point where i dug my psychological heels in and said, 'enough!' i didn't like the medicine, it made me feel numb, disinterested, even stupid. although i liked my therapist and appreciated the efforts being made on my behalf, it just wasn't enough. it wasn't cutting it. it was time for me to take some ownership for my own life.

so i decided, 'no more'. no more meds, no more therapy. just me and my little psyche all on my own. i disavowed my identification with my diagnosis (bipolar) and decided, firmly and with total - TOTAL - resolve, that from now on i was going to be responsible for myself and to myself. i realized that this whole concept of mental illness was just NOT WORKING FOR ME. i decided that denial had been given a bad rap.

and so it is. since that time, now well over two years, i have had no further episodes of depression. if at times i started to feel myself sinking (a state which before would have sent me posthaste to the shrink), i deliberately and with great thought, chose denial. i decided that if i couldn't actually be happy, i sure as hell could 'pretend' happy. not pretending to others as i had done in the past, but to myself and only myself. and i was sufficiently delusional to believe myself. to my surprise, my 'pretense' became my reality.

it worked. i never again sank into the kind of depression that had always been so familiar to me. i still haven't and i'm convinced that i never will because i have simply DECIDED that there are just too many wondrous things in this world for me to suspend my wonder in favor of despair. 'the world is so full of a number of things, that i'm sure we should all be as happy as kings!'

that said...this worked because i was ready for it. i was in the right place on a psychological, physical, philosophical, spiritual level - so that it could not fail me. and that's the secret. once you are in the right place it will work.
but if you're not there yet (and trust me, you will KNOW when you are), stick with what is keeping you going NOW, until you do reach that point.

you will...

[shesaboutspirit]

Dorothy hanna's advice is some of the best input I've ever seen. Thank you! It's really the silly little stuff like the singing and such that will make the biggest changes. So small that most won't write about it, but you know what? It's there for you every second of the day...when usually nothing or nobody else it there. Great job!

[ABlix]

Originally Posted by elainevdw

I think your issues with Steve's article have to do with what kind of depression he's talking about. There's depression, then there's clinical depression. There's depression caused by faulty thought processes, and depression caused by physical problems (such as an inactive thyroid).

My brother was suicidal in high school, hospitalized on suicide watch, and perscribed drugs. Those drugs may have gotten him out of the red zone. After he was in the limbo of "these drugs keep me from being sad, but they also keep me from being happy" for a few years, he decided to take himself off of them -- through exercise, diet, and his own version of cognitive behavioral strategies.

He was diagnosed as bipolar but is managing it extremely well without drugs, over five years later.

Most people who are in the throes of depression can greatly benefit from Steve's article. Those who need a little extra help from a psychiatrist can certainly get it, and then move on to the psychological ramifications.

I'm sure you're sensitive to this article because either you or those you love have suffered through serious depression -- but remember, the article is just another tool among many that's available to those who need it.

I went through a similar experience. One of the doctors I saw chose to diagnose me with bipolar disorder, but he doesn't have a very good reputation. In fact, he's a public practioner who seemed to have been stuck as a psychologist while really wanting to be a ballerina. This really set me back a while, but a second opinion is all that it takes sometimes.