Can someone help out a dead man please?

[The Beast]

Hello,

I'm a 25 years old student. I'm doing undergraduate engineering. I live alone on apartment on campus. I'm just a normal guy; not fat and not thin (BMI 22), don't do drugs, don't smoke, and don't drink coffee. So again, I'm just a regular guy.

But every now and then I feel that I'm losing interest in my life. I have sometimes wanted to kill myself, but of course I know I will never do that. But well, if there were a button on my body to kill me instantly and without pain, I probably would have pushed it by now. But anyway, I don't think I'm actually suicidal.

I may be semi-depressed though. Like I said, I'm losing interest in life. I'm also losing interest in my education. As a result, I don't study that much and keep dropping out of courses and take only the bare minimum. I also sleep very much (about 12-14 hours per day). And during the day, instead of doing anything, I just lay down and think about how life sucks.

I don't see any point in this anymore. I'm a dead man anyway...

I mean, for crying out loud. I don't even know what I'm going to do after my education: Since secondary school I sometimes thought about becoming a teacher. But now I feel that is impossible, because I'm worried sick about the following things: Teachers receive damned low salary, and housing is expensive. So how could I live? I could live, but not a very good life. I want to be able to buy a computer without thinking about it. Well, I could go work in a bank where salary is a bit higher, but I think such jobs are boring and not interesting.

Some people have been telling me to do graduate studies (PhD or Masters) right away. But for some reasons I don't feel like doing it anymore. Like I said, I'm not interested.

I have tried reading these nice Steve Pavlina articles on self discipline, waking up early, motivation, and so on. But of course, in order for these articles to work, every individual needs some sort of initial motivation, or willingness to do things. But for me, I don't have any such things. Sure I have fair days now and then, when I study a bit, but most of the time I'm a sucker.

So, in short words: It seems that I'm doomed. I'm a dead man. I have no future Well, unless some of you have any words of advice. If not, please name me some effective methods of killing myself.

Cheers,
David

[Hsiang-Lin]

Hey man,

I can say I'm feeling you right now. I'm in one of those no-motivation states and I know I'll be kicking myself later for that.

I think your main problem is that you don't believe there is something to work for in life. I was stuck in that mindset for a long time and I often thought of suicide as well although never extreme to the point that I would carry it out.

I'm in graduate school right now and pursuing my Master's in Electrical Engineering. I have everything going for me and all the love and support I need. Yet, I just can't find the motivation to pursue my studies. I know the importance of engineering, but no matter how hard I try I just can't sit down anymore and just apply myself to the material. I've done that all my life and now that I've awoken to the deeper aspects of life I feel like this is not meant for me.

So I think our problem is that we are doing something we don't enjoy doing everyday. That can have a drastic effect on our mental health especially on low-motivation days. Do you have any hobbies you enjoy doing? I think you can begin there to find something that will cheer you up. Motivation and ambition can come after that. But in our current state, I think we simply need something to cheer us up for a while and get our clarity back.

Hope you feel better man

[helgi]

I'm going to list some things that worked for me a few years ago when I was in a very similar situation -- basically just things that might trigger you to see things from a new perspective.

1. Close your eyes and imagine that you are dead. That you've died, but that you're still able to keep playing the game in a sort of bonus round. What would you do tomorrow, next week etc., if you were no longer alive as the person you were, and if everyone thought you weren't there anymore?

2. Imagine that you wake up and find that you've forgotten your name, and that you have no idea of what you do or who you know etc.: you're just sitting there as nobody in particular, and then you go from there.

3. Imagine that you have disappeared off to a foreign country where nobody knows you, and where nobody that knew you previously can contact you. Then imagine yourself waking up in the morning: what would you do?

4. Ask yourself in relation to whatever problematic situation you're facing: "What would I do if it weren't for myself?"


Essentially, what I believe you need primarily is a glimpse of freedom from your "self," that you're finding is becoming harder and harder to drag around with you. After you've had just a tiny little glimpse of this, all the articles and books you're reading will start to make more sense.

Just the fact that you're looking for ways out of it is a sign that you're ready for big changes. People usually have to hit a low point like this before starting to look for ways out.

[JJP]

Ah, the dark night of the soul... I've been there. All the advice I can give you is that it's supposed to feel that way. The worry about the future, the lack of motivation, lack of interest in school, the excessive sleep... but I think it's all supposed to teach you something.

It does get better, though. At least usually, I suppose. For me, it started changing when I just gave in to it and tried to see what it was all about. I would just lie down, like you said, in bed and think about how much life sucks or whatever was in my head, for a long time. I didn't end up killing myself, obviously, but after some time I think I "got it all out" -- even if I didn't understand it all -- and eventually realized that days were passing by... and I was still alive and in one piece, free to choose, and that I might as well make a go at my life, with whatever steps I could take.

It was a slow and gradual process taking many months for me, but I started seeing a counselor, started reading Steve's articles, started meditating, started taking care of my health, and eventually (I think this was one of the MAIN things) I started choosing to openly do the things I was REALLY interested in, such as taking classes I was interested in taking from the heart.

Now I'm growing, I'm learning, ιand it's kind of exciting -- so, expect to get better, I think you're on the right track.

[RT Wolf]

I'd say you shodl look over Pavlina's purpose articles. Life purpose in 20 minutes is a good one. I know the feeling, however, I eventually decided not to work for anyone again, and just to do my own thing and that's really given me a lot of motivation to do stuff. The Meaning of Life series is also good.

[Living2xcess]

Originally Posted by Hsiang-Lin

I think your main problem is that you don't believe there is something to work for in life. I was stuck in that mindset for a long time and I often thought of suicide as well although never extreme to the point that I would carry it out.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that answer. I am going through the same thing. I recently lost my job last year and decided to go back to school full-time. Being an overachiever, I am going insane and feeling overwhelmed with all the work and study required to keep my 4.0. I feel trapped and often wonder if its even worth it. One of my problems is the fact that I had a job that paid more than what I will likely get after I graduate. It is very discouraging, and like you said, it doesn't really seem like there is something valuable at the end of this rainbow. It doesn't feel like there is something to look forward to.

I think we need to stop debating on what is the best direction to take and just make a decision on what you want to do and start working towards it as if it is your life ambition and that you will accomplish it. If you find something you are more passionate about, then correct your course and aim for that goal.

[ImOpen]

The Beast: you seem to suffer from depression. You sleep a lot, you think about life and death too much, you have no motivation. Tell me, do you have the same appetite as you used to do and do you sometimes wake up early in the morning, when you are actually still tired?

The only right thing for you is to call a psychologists. You need therapy and maybe medicine.

And whatever you do. Don't use your last energy to try to change your life rapidly. I did that, with the help of Pavlina.com, and got VERY suicidal when my energy ran out and things just disintegrated and went back to my initial situation.

Pavlinas ideas (well some of them) are great - if you are feeling well. Otherwise they can be very harmful because they make you believe that there is always a possibility to change dramatically - and if you are deeply depressed and not treated - you really can't. Noone who has suffered from depression would argue against this.

Good luck!

[David Hausladen]

The Beast: I also have been to the place where you're at now, but as helgi suggested it can be the gateway to a life of greater significance and higher consciousness. I would echo what ImOpen says about not trying to make dramatic chances right now; in fact, what you learn from this experience may be some of the most valuable lessons in your life.

My advice is twofold, and in addition to what everyone else has suggested:

First, accept where you are, and don't tell yourself there's something wrong with being there (if you have been). There's a common myth in society that you have to be productive to deserve life. That's not true--just living is a good in and of itself, regardless of how it's done. Perhaps you want to do more than you are now, but accept that there's nothing wrong with where you are now, and if you decide that you want to do more, you will get to doing more in its own perfect time.

Second, think about your true desires. You don't have to act on them right now, just think about what they really are. Is teaching what you really want to do, or is it something you feel like you ought to do? If it is what you really want you to do, just keep in mind the thought that it can be done, even when coupled with your other desires (to be wealthy seems like one of them). If you merely keep your desires in mind, then you'll begin to recognize opportunities that bring you closer to them, and sooner or later you'll be inspired to start acting on them.

[dorothy hanna]

ImOpen,
Perhaps he does need to seek a medical doctor, and perhaps he does need medication for his obvious depression, but there is nothing on Steve Pavlina's site that is harmful, in any way shape or form, to anyone on this planet. I've noticed your comments on a number of topics, and threads in this forum, and you seem to be attempting to go around, and plant negative seeds to contaminate others who are checking out the forums.

This is to the person who started this thread. You'd probablr do well to have yourself checked out by a doctor. You may be sufferring from clinical depression. Anyone who says they'd probably push the self-destruct button on themselves, should it be painless etc...is showing major signs of depression. Go to a doctor. NOW!
And when you return from your visit to the doctor, please come back to these forums, and let us all know how your doing, and what the doctor has suggested. And feel free to checkout any, and all of Steve's articles on any topic. They won't harm you in anyway.

[ImOpen]

Dorothy: This was drawn from my own experience. So I "cannot" be wrong because I lived through it myself. And also, i don't intend to harm anyone. Over and over again I point out that I love a lot of Pavlina's stuff, although I'm critical of some of it.

I would have gotten the same bad result from any other positive psychology ideas. Nothing wrong with Pavlina's... It's all great - if you are feeling well mentally.

And of course anything can be harmful. Words are very powerful. If something can heal it can kill to. That's true for everything.

[The Beast]

Thanks for the comments so far. So I should see a doctor? Hmm. I don't think I'm depressed. I'm not sure though. But what could a doctor possibly do other than rob me of the little money I have?

[ImOpen]

Originally Posted by The Beast

Thanks for the comments so far. So I should see a doctor? Hmm. I don't think I'm depressed. I'm not sure though. But what could a doctor possibly do other than rob me of the little money I have?

You will probably be asked to fill out an application or something similiar and if you are clinically depressed you will get treatment for it. It is a disease just like cancer or a cold and there is a great risk that it'll get worse if nothing is done. Also suicide rates are about 17 times higher for clin.depressed persons compared to the total population. Take it seriously.

[helgi]

I'm certainly no authority when it comes to clinical depression, and haven't had any experience with anti-depressants, but I suspect that there are a lot of people here on these forums that have been at a low point like this, and recognize it as a tipping point towards a powerful transformation. A natural way of finding peace through suffering, and not necessarily something to be treated with drugs.

I'm pretty sure that had I gone to a psychiatrist when I hit bottom a few years ago, I would have been put on a high dose of anti-depressants. And knowing what I know now, that hitting rock bottom like that is simply an opportunity for transformation, I am very glad that I got to go through the natural process of suffering.

I do think that serious suicidal tendencies warrant an immediate visit to a psychiatric professional or similar, but even then I would ask the doctor for an alternative to medication. At least a form of treatment that involved a good balance of medication and spiritual consultation.

[JiriNovotny]

helgi,

Perhaps you could try something different, like "Rebooting Your Brain", you can read about it in this post. I don't have a clue if it's gonna help you but can't hurt to try it.

[Radical]

I think your problem is that you're focussing on the wrong things. Instead of concentrating on the bad things, start being grateful for what you have. You say you're a regular 25 year old guy, so be grateful.

You have your whole life ahead of you, and you have the freedom to do what you want. There are many people who are severely disabled or terminally ill, so just be grateful that you're not one of them.

Treat life as a video game, you will die one day and all your memories will be lost forever, so in the end nothing really matters. Just be grateful that you're in existence now and have the freedom to explore this physical world.

Do things that bring you happiness and stop thinking about how sad and alone you feel. Make some friends or get a girlfriend maybe.

[GreatnessBlog]

You can always take a depression checklist. Personally, I found therapy and medication to be helpful. They won't solve all your problems, but they might make it a lot easier for you to solve them.

[GreatnessBlog]

(Testing my new signature.)

[ImOpen]

Sort of humiliating to tell a depressed person to "do things that bring you happiness and stop thinking about how sad and alone you feel. Make some friends or get a girlfriend maybe."

It must not even be true that you see any joy in relationships or anything else for that matter. But.. I think Í have made my point clear so I won't elaborate. Seek help, get stronger and start from there.

[Radical]

Originally Posted by ImOpen

Sort of humiliating to tell a depressed person to "do things that bring you happiness and stop thinking about how sad and alone you feel. Make some friends or get a girlfriend maybe."

It must not even be true that you see any joy in relationships or anything else for that matter. But.. I think Í have made my point clear so I won't elaborate. Seek help, get stronger and start from there.

You are absolutly incorrect!

I know what depression feels like and the only person who can get you out of it is yourself. Depression is a mindset just like joy, I'm simply offering some helpful advice to help him overcome his stuck mental state.

[dorothy hanna]

You should see a doctor, but it doesn't automatically mean you have to accept any medications.
I speak from experience too. I spent 29 years clinically depressed. Spent 2 years in therapy, and refused medication. I posted my story on another of ImOpen's threads, called Overcoming depression. I did it without medication.
It's true that clinically depressed people do commit suicide/or attempt suicide more often than others, and it's also true that they do this while on medication, and very often by deliberatley overdosing on their medication. So I'd save the medication as a last resort, when other things have not helped, in the least. Go to ImOpen's thread "overcoming deppression", and read my story, and try some of the things I did that actually worked. It's not for everyone. Nothing ever is, but it might help.

[ImOpen]

Originally Posted by Radical

You are absolutly incorrect!

I know what depression feels like and the only person who can get you out of it is yourself. Depression is a mindset just like joy, I'm simply offering some helpful advice to help him overcome his stuck mental state.

Neither joy nor depression is a mindset. Joy is a feeling and depression a disease, with not only emotional and motivational symtoms but also cognitive and somatic symtoms. I quote:

"Motivational symtoms in depression involve an inability to get started and to perform behaviors that might produce pleasure or accomplishment. A depressed student may be unable to get out of bed in the morning, let alone go to class or study. Everything seems too much of an effort. In extreme depressive reactions, the person may have to be prodded out of bed, clothed, and fed. In som cases of severe depression, the person's movements slow down and she or he walks or talks slowly and with excruciating effort.

Somatic (bodily) symtoms often include loss of appetite and weight loss in moderate and severe depression, whereas in mild depression, weight gain sometimes occurs as a person eats compulsively. Sleep disturbances, particularly insomia, are common. Sleep disturbance and weight loss lead to fatigue and weakness, which tend to add to the depressed feelings. Depressed people may also lose sexual desire and responsiveness."

- Psychology: The Science of Mind and Behaviour (third edition)
Authors: Michael W. Passer and Ronald E. Smith, both at the University of Washington

edit. By the way, Abraham Lincoln suffered from recurrent bouts of depression throughout his life and was, on one occasion, so depressed that he failed to show up on his own wedding. Yeah, that's right. Bad mindset.

[dorothy hanna]

Yes, Yes, I was down to 76 lbs. I'm a small person anyway, but normally I weigh 115lbs.
I had no appetite, I flipped from not sleeping to sleeping 14 hours a day. I stayed in bed, all day. They couldn't even threaten me with pain, because I didn't care.
Funny thing is this. My stay in the psych-ward didn't come at a time when I was at my lowest. It came after I had made the decision, NOT TO DIE. As if it was a refusal, to something being demanded of me. I had gone all the way to the brink, and something deep deep down inside of me looked back at it, and said, "NO"! That came from me. Inside of me, that didn't find this acceptable. None of it, and , apparently, I had already made up my mind that it wasn't going to be like this. anymore. That I wasn't going to 'Play my part', anymore. And I vomited up all the pills I'd taken, and it was I that called for help, while my family objected, and tried to hang up the phone. My family didn't believe in what was referred to as, "outside interference". Well, when they didn't succeed in stopping me from calling for help, when the ambulance arrived, they had no trouble calling me a lunatic, and always having been "a problem". These are some of the negative people, I am now so happy living without. If they thought I was a problem when I was ill, they really didn't know how to handle me when I became well. WOW!!!

[The Beast]

Originally Posted by ImOpen

Tell me, do you have the same appetite as you used to do and do you sometimes wake up early in the morning, when you are actually still tired?

I have not lost my appetite at all. When I get good food, I use the chance well and eat alot. But most of the time, when I'm alone in my apartment, I often don't eat that much because of lazyness. I just put something quick into the microwave, or just have bread. Or if I happen to have some vegetables, I just eat them raw because I'm too lazy to cook anything from them. So in short: No, I haven't lost my appetite

And no, I don't wake up early in the morning when I'm still tired. (Well not unless the alarm goes off, of course, in which case I just turn it off and go back to sleep. Consequently I sleep until I have gotten about 12-14 hours of sleep. Sadly, this seems to be the natural thing for me now .) So no, I don't wake up early in the morning (by myself) feeling actually tired. On the contrary, I only wake up by myself when I've gotten too much sleep.

[ImOpen]

Okay, I would still advice you to investigate it. You can read more here:
Clinical depression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Richful]

The Beast,
There's been a lot of good advice here so far. I too am 25, I don't study I work or I go to work, not much work to do there... But I too feel like there's not much point.

However, I have the advantage of being able to see a counselor about it. I understand ur low on cash, most students are (why isn't education free yet?), so I recommend talking to someone in your life who will listen.

This forum is good, lots of positive growing people, but it's a forum. There is great power in talking to a physical person who will listen, not lend advice, just hear you out. Is there a student counselor on your university campus? If you are feeling able to try to find just one person in your life who will listen, the support will make a difference. They may be able to help you find a free counseling service. Good luck.

BTW Where's ur name come from?

[placebo]

I was also on collegge, living alone in a rented flat, losing motivation, aborted studying. Life simply didn't have purpose. Do you know that feeling when you come home in an empty place, then lie down and hear your heart pumping?

That strange feeling of mixed sadness and apathy show up then. And you think how easy it would be just to hurt yourself, destroy your existence. But you don't do it, you just keep thinking about it every day but never go till the end. Eventually, you start to like that feeling, you expect from it to show up every day. And as expected it shows up.

I believe that feeling is familiar to you. It is called depression. First step to feeling better was to realize that I have a problem. You've realized it too, good. Second step was to read all i could find about depression, why and when it appears.
Third and the hardest one was to decide that you want to feel better. Remember what i said, and confess to yourself that you started to like that feeling. You've adjusted to it, and you have to start hate it. You don't have to go to doctors, they will give you drugs. Drugs are chemicals and you don't need that, you have to change your thoughts.
I've also noticed that meeting someone new is pretty hard when you're down, especially get a girlfriend. It's some kind of magic circle. But my advice is to find a roomate or a girl. It is much easier when you have someone near you. In the begining it is hard to live with someone, as time goes by it starts getting better and better.

I'm on this last phase at the moment for about a year and a half. There are still days when i feel down but i simply don't allow myself to hit the bottom again. Now, Law Of Attraction is giving new dimension in my life. It is getting interesting...

[Dan_au]

Hi David.

I was actually surprised to hear someone else admit the "button idea". I guess it has to do with the nothingness one probably has when they die (kind of like sleeping).



What stops me from suicidal thoughts is what family and friends will go though if I do it. Our button really needs to wipe out the whole planet in the blink of an eye, which I don't think will happen.

I don't really think about it these days, it was more when I was younger when I was busting my arse, going to college, save money, work hard, don't get a girlfriend yet cause they cost too much, keep a small circle of friends because too many friends becomes to hard to maintain etc.

Seeing a psychologist about semi-depression is the best move. It doesn't have to be a psychologist but they will probably provide you with the most direct path to address what your talking about. Just talking to someone and getting their ideas about your thoughts might give you some direction/make goals clearer and/or exposure areas in your life that you need to address.

Maybe give these guys a call, its free;
National Hopeline Network: 1-800-SUICIDE(784-2433) - a 24-hour toll-free suicide prevention helpline network that routes callers to the nearest community based crisis center, United States

Wikipedia is a great resource as well. Checkout Motivation

I like Maslow_hierarchy_of_needs.

Maybe open a hole bunch of browser windows on topics which interest you and your way through them. Something might grab your attention then print it out and go read it at the park?

[DQueens]

hi,
i know what you are going through. i went throught it, am going through it, and trying to deal with it. this is going to be met with some disagreement, and if you want to see a doctor, or think it's right for you, then do it, but i really dont think that that is necessary. i feel disconneted from my friends, my family, my education, my future, my life. it gets worse if i drink and it gets better when i shut my brain off by doing intense exercise or reading my neuroscience textbook. it's just that life seems pointless. and while you may be depressed i dont quite think that that is what it is. i think you are realizing that things you once thought were important are now trivial. the things, people you cared about now seem kind of unimportant. the conversations my friends are having with each other seem just so stupid and ridiculous. are they going to remember this issue in 5 years? one year? is this issue really affecting anyone? are they really getting mad about something that stupid? where, if you remember correctly it would have been something you would have cared about not too long ago. i think going to a doctor, while you might have someone to talk to, if you are the kind of person who feels better after opening up, may not solve your problem. it may prescribe you medicaitons but unless your serotonin levels are low this wont really help you too much. this is a problem that you need to come to terms with on your own inevitably. only you can find a motivation or what you care about, which is what i think both of us need to find out. lately i've been getting warm feelings when i think about things in life thati find i truely care about... someone came up with good ideas when they suggested think about what you would do if you had one mroe day on earth or a second chanceto live. there must be soemthing that you still like. helping kids, trail running, studying X subject...? even if it is not apparent right now it's deep inside. i found some help by reading the more in depth articles by steve. the "rise in consciousness" hit the nail so hard on the head i wondered if i was living in a paradox. and the "law of attraction" and "subejective reality" articles are also interesting because they imply that you are in complete charge of your life. it's like a movie in which you are the only star because your consciousness is the only one that exists. it's kind of a lonely idea that sometimes makes me depressed, but like i said, i dont have solutions as i am still dealing with the same thing as you... only now it drifts in and out. (more in that out...) the one thing i know for sure is that i dont want to go back to caring about the stupid crap i cared about beofre. it's would be like unlearning something just because you didnt like the truth you were exposed to, and i cant do that. all i can do (and you too) is move forward with this new awareness. i dont think we should look at it as a low point in which the goal is to return to out baseline of thinking and happiness, but as a new level of thinking, in which if we continue and take advantage of state of mind that it can lead us somewhere where we will eventually not feel like crap.

[trekr5]

The Beast

I really feel for you.

I've felt like that sometimes but luckily I have friends that talk to me and make me see things from another perspective. I know that it is difficult to see when you are immersed in your own problems and don't see any purpose/solution in sight. I'm glad that a forum like this exists where you can receive a lot of positive support to show you that many of us have felt the same way and that you are not alone.

Don't delay...get help in whatever way...whether it's talking to someone, getting medical help, whatever don't leave it alone and think it will get better because it won't. Sometimes I use homeopathic remedies especially when I start to get overly anxious and it works.

I hope you start to see that you will find your purpose eventually and please don't do anything silly like committing suicide...you'll get through this.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Well, as people often say, you sometimes have to go down before you feel better. I remember Steve's article about going from a 7 to a 10 where he said you may have to go down low in order to find a new path. But then you realize the path should be a ten or something like that. It's on his main site's sidebar. You have to know that this feeling is temporary and not permanent. I say that if you feel unmotivated and lethargic, then you should do the things you love most and the rest be damned! Except, of course, paying bills...damn you, government!