open and honest communication with my father.

[elucidate]

So, I just sent an email to my father expressing how angry and hurt I am at the way he has been blaming me for "damaging our relationship"...by expressing some stuff to him openly and honestly

I spoke with my art therapist about it a while ago, and she confirmed to me that I was not crazy...that communicating openly and honestly is the hallmark of creating a healthy relationship...but that's not what my father wants. He wants a pretend relationship where he doesn't have to acknowledge my reality or validate me in any way, and can just run roughshod over my feelings and pretend that it's ok and that I 'should' still respect him for it. That's not the way it works though.

I decided to send him this email this morning after he phoned me last night to arrange xmas plans, as if nothing happened, which is what he always does, just carries on like it never happened. I don't want to speak to him or see him, so that was partly why I decided to send him the email, to let him know what my plans are for staying with friends here in Melbourne and going to the parties I've been invited to instead.

I wasn't rude or attacking about it, and I did my best to stick to sentences just outlining how I was feeling, rather than accusing him of bad behaviour, so as not to put him on the defense. He has quite sophisticated defenses, and I want to communicate in a way that is honest about how I am feeling without blaming him or focusing on what he has done that has caused me to feel hurt and angry.

I'm feeling a little anxious and shaky right now, and need to ground a bit more. I'm not sure how he will respond, and I've asked that if he chooses to respond that he do so with respect and not just invalidate my reality again.

I feel like I was assertive without being attacking and I aimed to have him acknowledge his behaviour and be made accountable, but I also said that I know I cannot make or force him to, and that I intend to heal from all this stuff regardless.

I'm feeling a little panicky, so I thought I'd post this here, and hopefully open myself to the emotional support that I need but I am unsure I will receive from him.

I'm needing some empathy here, so please no analyzing or advice. It's a really big thing for me, and I'm hoping it will result in him starting to see that his behaviour is really disrespectful towards me...but I don't know if that will be the outcome?

[ellie]

Hi elucidate, that was really brave of you. I hope that everything goes well and he responds in the manner that you hoped for. If he doesn't ...know you handled the best way you can, and that you will not take on his crap

I wish I had the strength to do this with my father, but alas I don't think it would help me that much.

Good luck with it, fingers crossed that it goes well, you did well

[elucidate]

Thanks Ellie, I really needed to hear that.

I remembered your method for manifesting, and said some affirmative things after I sent it, as well as asked him to only respond in a respectful way without invalidating me again.

I'm feeling really sick now from worrying about it. I'm literally terrified, though I know that is probably irrational. It's too late now...I sent it, it's gone, it's there in his box, he might be reading it right now?

I also said that he will need to learn healthier ways of getting his own emotional needs met, as I will no longer allow him to use me for this. I'd imagine he'd be in denial about that anyway, so he probably doesn't know what the hell I'm going on about, and it might all be for nothing?

I wrote it all out in a letter earlier, and I felt so much self respect and all the anger just discharge. Maybe that was enough? I'm freakin' that I didn't really need to send it...and I'm feeling all irksome and angsty right now. It doesn't feel right...but there is a part of me that knows it's good that I did send it.

I'm just gonna go and get drunk now

[ellie]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I'm freakin' that I didn't really need to send it...and I'm feeling all irksome and angsty right now. It doesn't feel right...but there is a part of me that knows it's good that I did send it.

I'm just gonna go and get drunk now

Don't have any regrets, all you can do is learn from the experience, if he doesn't respond how you wanted, the next time you meet or hear from him, you will just have to detach from feeling or emotions from him.

I was going to say something about a manifesting technique, but I thought I might sound like I'm drowning on But glad you did your own, sounds perfect.

Go, get drunk, and have many

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ellie

Don't have any regrets, all you can do is learn from the experience, if he doesn't respond how you wanted, the next time you meet or hear from him, you will just have to detach from feeling or emotions from him.

I was going to say something about a manifesting technique, but I thought I might sound like I'm drowning on But glad you did your own, sounds perfect.

Go, get drunk, and have many

[ellie]

Oh and I meant many drinks

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ellie

Oh and I meant many drinks

I took it that way...hence the multiple smileys

[Federer]

*big hug* for you and lots of love and peace to you. I know you are honest human being and i believe in you.

sends you morning coffee with Federer.

From yours Friend Ravin.

[ssandra]

Well done Elucidate!

It is a good thing to stand up for yourself! Something you might want to remember, and might help with your levels of anxiety, is that you did this for yourself. You stood your ground, you simply let him know what you felt and what your plans were.

Regardless of how he answers, or if he answers at all, you did what is best for you. Be proud of yourself!!

[Lauxa]

Sending you buckets filled with love and empathy. Also wine and chocolate.

I haven't been really honest with my dad since he threatened to disown me for smoking pot. For me I decided that the relationship is more important than full disclosure and if there is some stuff he's not ready to hear or accept then I will take up the burden and shelter him from that stuff. I'm lucky that he doesn't require too much of an act from me, at least I don't have to pretend to be Christian or accept verbal abuse or anything else that would be impossible.

I hope you will find your own way to negotiate a relationship with your dad. I think their minds get a bit brittle in their old age and they need some compassion for that. That daddy-daughter relationship is so special and it broke my heart a little to read about your dolphin rides in the other thread.

[Leesah]

I panic about those things too, especially while waiting for a response (which doesn't always come) but I do believe there was absolutely nothing wrong with you saying what you said, it's good to be honest and open about your feelings and you had good intentions. It's ok that you emailed him. Sometimes people don't realise how much their behaviour affects someone else. I think it's good to point it out - people aren't mind readers afterall.
Hopefully he's willing to do the same and be open and honest in response -- if not, that's not your fault or anything you can control. It's up to him to make the effort from his side - but you have made an effort from your side, so feel good, not bad ... if everyone was as open as you have been relationships would be much easier. I think my own relationship with my dad would be better if we were both honest and open with each other over the years, but I'm unwilling to make the effort at this point.

PS. Hope you get some relief soon, whether from a response or just lots of alcohol :P it's horrid to be worrying! I feel for you.

[ZephyrusX]

I also think it was very brave to do this and I hope everything turns out well for you and your father I tend to be open and honest with my mother, but there are certain 'no go zones' I don't want to touch as I'm afraid of the consequences. I'm hoping she'll just fix stuff on her own time. But sometimes not talking about an issue just leads to prolonged stagnation. So kudos for being brave enough to do this despite whatever the consequences may be.

[elucidate]

I'm just letting myself absorb all the support and warmth from all of you here, and I'm grateful to have you all and know that I can ask for support and receive what I need.

I didn't drink too much, which I'm glad for because I don't really like alcohol that much, but I did take a valium which REALLY took the edge off the anxiety and panic attacks, and put me in a very pleasant space for a few hours. I'm not one for doing that usually, but my anxiety really was off the charts last night.

The angst has returned, and the worrying, but it is not as bad as it was, so I'm just gonna ride it out. I'm not ready to check my hotmail box just yet for a reply...but I woke up this morning with an attitude that I would remain open to the possibility that he might surprise me...anything is possible after all. I'm not getting my hopes up though.

Ssandra: thankyou for the re-assurance, and the reminder that I'm doing this for myself. Even as a grown woman, it's still hard to escape the feeling that I've done something 'bad' by standing up to him, but, as I said to him in my e-mail, respect is earned, and being my father doesn't automatically qualify him for my respect if he is acting in a way that is disrespectful to me.

When I wrote it out in my journal before sending it, I felt a sense of self-respect, and it felt really good, so I know, as bad as it feels now, it was the right move to make for me.

Lauxa: I can understand your reasons for your decision, and sometimes I have wondered whether I just need to swallow it all and bare it for the relationships sake...but I just cannot have false relationships. To me, it's the hardest thing to have to pretend things are all good, when they are not.
It feels like I'm giving him his needs at the expense of my own and just trying to keep the peace, which I used to always do and just passively accept the fact that he was getting his needs met at my expense and my needs were not even considered. I've moved towards affirming that my own needs are JUST as important as his are. I like to recall the good memories though, but it is heart-breaking for me too, to see what it has "evolved" into. For me, in order to create a better relationship, it takes honesty...but I cannot force him to want to create the same thing.
I've come to accept that I may never have the sort of relationship that I want with him, and I'm willing to go along with superficiality to a degree, but not when it means that I am mistreated and negated, which is how he has always been. I understand that it's not really his fault and everything, and I do have loads of compassion for him...but that doesn't mean I have to put up with the way he treats me at times.

Leesah: Yeah, there aren't too many things that cause me to panic the way I did last night. I've always felt a little intimidated by him, even as a kid, butit had to be said, and I was careful to not blame or accuse him, but just be straight. I find e-mails are a way in which I can take my time to articulate what I want to say and spend time reading over it to make sure it is not being too aggressive etc. I think I did an allright job, so...time will tell.

Thanks for your support here.

Zeph: Thankyou for your kind words. I've tried at times to confront him with his behaviour, and have always been shut down or told that I'm damaging the relationship by being honest and open...which I know is his own projection. Keeping everything in the dark and not speaking up when your boundaries have been violated, is what damages relationships...so I'm happy for my own mental well-being that I let him know I didn't buy into his version of reality, which is often twisted to suit himself.

I'm still feeling a little blah...but at least I slept, and feel so relieved to have you all to be able to take the edge off dealing with this. It's been a huge learning curve for me, to be able to ask and reach out for emotional support when I need it.

And finally Ravin: Thankyou my friend for your peaceful vibes and for the cyber coffee

[ellie]

I don't know if this helps, but I relay a new approach that has helped me.

I tend to work myself into a real state about certain situations...especially those I don't know the final outcome to yet, I get sick with worry, I imagine scenarios, think the worst...etc

But thing I have noticed is every-time I think like this, the situation never turns out as badly, and then I realise I have wasted a lot of time worrying and getting myself worked up, only to find out it was a major waste of time and energy. So this is where I am starting (notice I say starting...I still have not perfected the art yet) is to just not let those worries enter my mind. I just say, "right ellie, get those thoughts out of your mind, remember it always ends up being a waste of time, imagine this time if you didn't bother with accepting those negative thoughts, how much time you would have to do other things". and then each time when the thoughts begin to linger back in, I say "no, forget about it". Imagine you have superpowers, and your sword comes out each time, those negative thoughts come in, and it shields those thoughts.

Might help, might not

[elucidate]

Yes, I was doing this just this morning when I got home. I told myself "Self, there's no point in worrying about it, as that won't have any bearing on the outcome either way...you just have to wait and see what happens"...and then go and distract myself from thinking about it.

I did some journalling, and allowed myself to absorb all the loving support I received on the forum from you guys, and after a while this calm just settled in, and I felt peaceful again.

I still haven't looked at my hotmail, but I did start saying to myself..."you never know, it might have caused him to gain a greater respect for me...you're allowed to dream"

That gave me much more positive feelings about it all.

Originally Posted by ellie

I don't know if this helps, but I relay a new approach that has helped me.

I tend to work myself into a real state about certain situations...especially those I don't know the final outcome to yet, I get sick with worry, I imagine scenarios, think the worst...etc

But thing I have noticed is every-time I think like this, the situation never turns out as badly, and then I realise I have wasted a lot of time worrying and getting myself worked up, only to find out it was a major waste of time and energy. So this is where I am starting (notice I say starting...I still have not perfected the art yet) is to just not let those worries enter my mind. I just say, "right ellie, get those thoughts out of your mind, remember it always ends up being a waste of time, imagine this time if you didn't bother with accepting those negative thoughts, how much time you would have to do other things". and then each time when the thoughts begin to linger back in, I say "no, forget about it". Imagine you have superpowers, and your sword comes out each time, those negative thoughts come in, and it shields those thoughts.

Might help, might not

[James81]

I'm glad you expressed what was there for you to express. He may or may not receive it in the way you want him to, but at least you can lay your head down knowing that you did what was there for you to do. And I think that sets you on a path toward greater understanding of yourself and perhaps the healing you crave.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by James81

I'm glad you expressed what was there for you to express. He may or may not receive it in the way you want him to, but at least you can lay your head down knowing that you did what was there for you to do. And I think that sets you on a path toward greater understanding of yourself and perhaps the healing you crave.

Yes, it's helped me to feel a greater sense of self-respect, which to me is a big win,and brought a certain healing. Thanks James.

[ellie]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes, I was doing this just this morning when I got home. I told myself "Self, there's no point in worrying about it, as that won't have any bearing on the outcome either way...you just have to wait and see what happens"...and then go and distract myself from thinking about it.

I did some journalling, and allowed myself to absorb all the loving support I received on the forum from you guys, and after a while this calm just settled in, and I felt peaceful again.

I still haven't looked at my hotmail, but I did start saying to myself..."you never know, it might have caused him to gain a greater respect for me...you're allowed to dream"

That gave me much more positive feelings about it all.

Cool. Fingers crossed that it goes well, and your father has listened to your concerns.

[Federer]

Don't mind elucidate. I have strong urge to share this thought, so writing down.

Your pa is defensive person. He is behaving like nothing happened, it means he is thinking only about himself. Have you ever tried to make him feel happy?? Or let him realize that you don't want to hurt him. From what i have noticed, i think you have done this.

So if you meet him don't let him know that you are there for yourself, also let know that you are for him.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Federer

Don't mind elucidate. I have strong urge to share this thought, so writing down.

Your pa is defensive person. He is behaving like nothing happened, it means he is thinking only about himself. Have you ever tried to make him feel happy?? Or let him realize that you don't want to hurt him. From what i have noticed, i think you have done this.

Yes, he is defensive...but we all can be defensive when someone confronts us with truths about our behavior...which is what I did. I do my best not to hurt him, even though I know I could cut him to shreds with some well chosen words if I wanted to. I prefer not to stoop to his level.

He can be VERY nasty, and has ridiculed and laughed at me at times. He is the sort of person that only feels good about himself when he is making others feel bad about themselves. he doesn't have very high self-esteem.

He can be nice at times as well, but he cancels it all out with his nastiness.

So if you meet him don't let him know that you are there for yourself, also let know that you are for him.

I have shown him a lot of support over the years, which I reminded him of. He wasn't there for me when I needed emotional support though, and he isn't capable of that either. He is far too damaged to be supportive of anyone emotionally.

[trishmullen]

Hi

I've just been reading through your threads here and what is immediate to me is the HUGE step this was for you. At the end of the day he is your father and your respect for him in this role is very apparent to me although you can still be objective about some of his shortcomings.

I think you've done something that you probably know you should have done years ago but that is then and this is now. You didn't then but you have now and my hat is off to you for your courage.

I'm sure your words to him were written very articulately and I just hope for you, that the outcome you both need and want is forthcoming.

I hope 2011 brings you what you need in your life. Be strong, you can only be responsible for YOU.

[elucidate]

Yes, you are right. I needed to say this to him many years ago, and maybe if I had have he would not have gotten away with mistreating me as much as he has...but as you say, that was then and this is now.

I appreciate your words and well wishes.

Thankyou friend.

Originally Posted by trishmullen

Hi

I've just been reading through your threads here and what is immediate to me is the HUGE step this was for you. At the end of the day he is your father and your respect for him in this role is very apparent to me although you can still be objective about some of his shortcomings.

I think you've done something that you probably know you should have done years ago but that is then and this is now. You didn't then but you have now and my hat is off to you for your courage.

I'm sure your words to him were written very articulately and I just hope for you, that the outcome you both need and want is forthcoming.

I hope 2011 brings you what you need in your life. Be strong, you can only be responsible for YOU.

[Lauxa]

My favorite memories of my dad
are from when I was little
we would walk the dogs together
and talk and talk
a lot about religion and philosophy
which he has very strong and passionate opinions on
and we would sing
"we belong to a mutual admiration society
my father/daughter and me."

Why do things have to get so much more complicated when we grow up?

[Federer]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes, he is defensive...but we all can be defensive when someone confronts us with truths about our behavior...which is what I did. I do my best not to hurt him, even though I know I could cut him to shreds with some well chosen words if I wanted to. I prefer not to stoop to his level.

He can be VERY nasty, and has ridiculed and laughed at me at times. He is the sort of person that only feels good about himself when he is making others feel bad about themselves. he doesn't have very high self-esteem.

He can be nice at times as well, but he cancels it all out with his nastiness.



I have shown him a lot of support over the years, which I reminded him of. He wasn't there for me when I needed emotional support though, and he isn't capable of that either. He is far too damaged to be supportive of anyone emotionally.

I think your pa needs your support. He needs healing to control himself. I can understand your feelings as daughter. It is very difficult to support your pa. You are trying to heal the relationship. Efforts never go in vain.

You can intend for 2011 as above poster said. I wish you manifest this relationship again. I understand that it is very important relationship. Again manifesting is never bad, just believe it had patch and you replaced it.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Federer

I think your pa needs your support. He needs healing to control himself. I can understand your feelings as daughter. It is very difficult to support your pa. You are trying to heal the relationship. Efforts never go in vain.

You can intend for 2011 as above poster said. I wish you manifest this relationship again. I understand that it is very important relationship. Again manifesting is never bad, just believe it had patch and you replaced it.

NO. I have given him support, and all he has done is trample all over my feelings. I don't expect emotional support from him, as he isn't capable of that, but I'm not putting myself in harms way so he can get the support he needs.

I had to pay for a counselllor...and he can invest in one as well if he wants to deal with his issues...but he doesn't. He wants to pretend everything is ok...and I'm the one who ends up suffering for it!

I'm sorry Fed, I know you are trying to help, and that this is your method of doing things...but I am not like you in this way. Not anymore. My responsability is to look after myself here...not him.

[Federer]

Originally Posted by elucidate

NO. I have given him support, and all he has done is trample all over my feelings. I don't expect emotional support from him, as he isn't capable of that, but I'm not putting myself in harms way so he can get the support he needs.

I had to pay for a counselllor...and he can invest in one as well if he wants to deal with his issues...but he doesn't. He wants to pretend everything is ok...and I'm the one who ends up suffering for it!

I'm sorry Fed, I know you are trying to help, and that this is your method of doing things...but I am not like you in this way. Not anymore. My responsability is to look after myself here...not him.

Naw,Naw. Don't feel sorry. I know it is your choice. If the person is not ready to change himself then even god can't do anything in their case.

It has been very very late. So many stuff you did, so many sufferings. You chose the right way to distance yourself from this all. Even i have done this with my mother's brother who is uncle for me. He was very selfish, now no contact at all. It is also difficult like this if we talk with him, he will feel we are giving power to him and he will make fun of us. His rude personality hurt my father a lot, my father is not that emotional strong like i am. He thought to break it, but could not. I don't know why? May be he doesn't want it. I know my pa is giving him power to continue his rudeness.

I have realized the importance of disconnect cords sometimes. If in future my uncle gives me realization of trustworthy man, then only i will start think to connect back. I have no fear what my uncle will do to hurt me. But he will not come near to me. Never. I know why you are refusing him. Because you don't want to give him any power to do nasty things.

I am happy i tried my best to help you and tried successfully to look at the situation from your eyes.

[elucidate]

I feel the same, and I'm always willing to give second chances...but not third, and fourth and fifth. If a person continues to show me that they are not worthy of my trust, and are nice to me sometimes, and then feel at liberty to go back to being nasty, then I learn not to trust them or want to be around them.

This is his lesson to learn...that I am no longer willing to just put up with it. I'll support him to change, if he ever decides to do so, but until then, I won't be investing in it.

Originally Posted by Federer

Naw,Naw. Don't feel sorry. I know it is your choice. If the person is not ready to change himself then even god can't do anything in their case.

It has been very very late. So many stuff you did, so many sufferings. You chose the right way to distance yourself from this all. Even i have done this with my mother's brother who is uncle for me. He was very selfish, now no contact at all. It is also difficult like this if we talk with him, he will feel we are giving power to him and he will make fun of us. His rude personality hurt my father a lot, my father is not that emotional strong like i am. He thought to break it, but could not. I don't know why? May be he doesn't want it. I know my pa is giving him power to continue his rudeness.

I have realized the importance of disconnect cords sometimes. If in future my uncle gives me realization of trustworthy man, then only i will start think to connect back. I have no fear what my uncle will do to hurt me. But he will not come near to me. Never. I know why you are refusing him. Because you don't want to give him any power to do nasty things.

I am happy i tried my best to help you and tried successfully to look at the situation from your eyes.

[Federer]

When you started this thread, you asked for support and uplifting vibes. So you can handle the hard matter.

This is what i brought at the moment:



Feel good flowers with tiny teddy.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Federer

When you started this thread, you asked for support and uplifting vibes. So you can handle the hard matter.

This is what i brought at the moment:



Feel good flowers with tiny teddy.

Very sweet of you, thanks Fed. I got that cuddle vibe, and it is a very uplifting photo.

[elucidate]

I still haven't read my e-mails, though my father contacted me by phone today and seemed genuinely unaware of my message to him, so I'm guessing he hadn't read it.

I just woke up about 45 minutes ago, and I had the sense that has read it, and is very angry at me and pissed off! I also got the sense that he has ridiculed me again, though this may just be the fear speaking?

I don't want to look!