Let's talk about Logotherapy...

[James81]

If you want to know what that is, click here:

Logotherapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I just finished up Victor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning (finally! sheesh), and I found his concept of logotherapy (and existential will to meaning) to be absolutely fascinating.

And I want to learn more about it.

Are there other books about it? What do you think of it?

[scotthegeek]

I have not gotten all the way through his book, but the one thing he said that did not make sense at the time has been very helpful to me.

He talk about how he and his wife got separated when he when to the concentration camp. I would think not knowing if the Nazi had kill his wife would be unbearable. He said it really did not matter if she was dead. He know that she loved him and no matter what happens they could never take that away from him. He has seen the worst that mankind had to offer but the kindness of a few made all the difference.

Dose any one know if his wife survived?

Scott

[nxomsa]

sounds interesting. I was checking out existentialism recently and think i might enjoy this. Is it a long and difficult read?

[James81]

Originally Posted by nxomsa

sounds interesting. I was checking out existentialism recently and think i might enjoy this. Is it a long and difficult read?

The first half of the book is very easy to read (in terms of language that is, the imagery is a bit disturbing in terms of what happened to them in the camps, but it's not TOO graphic or anything like that...it's just disturbing to think of what they do to them in those camps and the sheer hopelessness of their situtation).

The second half gets a little more techincal (when he actually stops talking about his experiences in the concentration camp and starts talking about logotherapy itself), but it's still not too bad.

There is so much quotable material in this book, though. Damn.

[ZephyrusX]

Originally Posted by scotthegeek

Dose any one know if his wife survived?

I don't believe she did, but I could be remembering wrong. It has been awhile since I've read the book. I don't think I ever read the second half of the book so I can't really comment on logotherapy so much. I liked the first half as it shows how human beings create meaning out of ther environment, and so long as they have the will (will to meaning is the term he uses?), they can endure hardship and even extract beauty and meaning out of it. I remember the passage where the young woman was dying, but she could still fill deep gratitude for life and see beauty in the birds flying about. It reminds me of the idea of 'weaving' your own story, but I'm not sure if that is exactly what he meant by logotherapy.

[Medea33]

Viktor Frankl wrote more than one book and his first wife died in Bergen-Belsen.

It was being in the camps that informed his work and that isn't a duplicatable experience, thank God, so he doesn't have any real inheritors who have advanced the philosophical aspects. Instead, there are people who practice, using his brand of therapeutic concepts, and a few that publish articles.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Medea33

It was being in the camps that informed his work and that isn't a duplicatable experience,

Actually, he was already advancing his work before he ever went to the camps. He even mentions the manuscript that he lost in going to the camp, that was the precursor to the ones he wrote after coming out of the camps. The camps just reinforced the notions (i.e. gave them validity) that he was already working on.

And I wouldn't say it's not a duplicatable experience. I think the camps and what happened in there show us the depths to which suffering reach, but the nature of suffering is inherently the same to all who experience it. This is where the disconnect comes from in our society, actually. That is, when people see a cancer patient, we feel remorse. But if we see some rich young guy have his car stolen, we're like "Oh boo hoo," even though the nature of the suffering can *feel* very similar to both people.

If that sounds crazy to you, then you are reinforcing my point about the disconnect and how we view suffering.

[James81]

In fact, I kinda think that's part of the point of Frankl's theories. That suffering is a choice we make, despite the apparent lack of or availability of resources that seem available to dissolve that suffering.

That is, it takes just as much choice and power to dissolve the suffering in a concentration camp as it would to dissolve your suffering over having your CDs stolen. The difference, I think, is in how you perceive both situations. One *seems* harder than the other because we assign more meaning to one over the other.

[Angela]

James, a lot of people have recommended that book, but I've never been inspired to read until now. Thanks!

[Mark Dykeman]

I've never heard the term logotherapy before but I've certainly heard plenty about Frankl's book. I'm going to try to read it now, thanks!

[Medea33]

Originally Posted by James81

If that sounds crazy to you, then you are reinforcing my point about the disconnect and how we view suffering.

I said "informed," as in gave it that breadth of humanity that a lot of the work in and around the human mind lacks. And the only crazy part is thinking that the depth of suffering isn't factored into our response to it. It doesn't matter if suffering is the same or different in the two cases you cited, because what calls out the response is the suffering along the axes of both probable outcome and duration.

Originally Posted by James81

That is, it takes just as much choice and power to dissolve the suffering in a concentration camp as it would to dissolve your suffering over having your CDs stolen. The difference, I think, is in how you perceive both situations. One *seems* harder than the other because we assign more meaning to one over the other.

I don't think we actually disagree about the nature of suffering, but we definitely veer off on the issue of meaning. I think it's a beautiful book, but I also think the central flaw/gift of the logical core of it was Frankl's need to make meaning out of his experiences. To somehow use a lens that he had developed to survive something very few did, including only one other member of his family, and to remain mentally intact and optimistic.

Of course, my own lens is that I read it as an example of Holocaust literature, so I'm coming at it from a skewed vantage point.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Angela

James, a lot of people have recommended that book, but I've never been inspired to read until now. Thanks!

I kind of view his theories as the missing piece to YOUR theories.

So, yeah, I think you'll enjoy it.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by James81

I kind of view his theories as the missing piece to YOUR theories.

So, yeah, I think you'll enjoy it.

thanks.