My son's father

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

I am loathe to touch on this "relationship". But I am experiencing a lot of anger and fear and negativity associated with interacting with him and that means there is work to be done.

We split in December of last year, but got back together briefly because I fell pregnant. I miscarried in February, there was a domestic violence incident about a week after. Neither of us can agree on the events that took place, and thus the state dropped the charges, and he moved out permanently then. He's a father who wants to be involved in his children's lives (he has an older son from a previous marriage that he got custody of 2 years ago, that boy is 13). I'm stuck having to interact with him on a regular basis. His older son is flunking out of middle school and as far as I can tell already abusing prescription painkillers.

It seems like at least once a week I have a rape flashback related to how we interact (I was not raped by him, but the way he behaves triggers the same feelings of helplessness and being forced). I want to be more empowered in the situation, but I don't know how to go about it. Probably because I had a flashback this morning and my emotions are rattled. It happens to frequently now that I'm much more able to deal with the episodes than ever before...

I guess that is a good thing. It's like PT, but with my fragile emotions and fear. Maybe I am actually causing these incidents to happen subconsciously.

The process could be easier, though. What usually sparks the disagreement is his older son, or discussions about the domestic violence or my son's father's binge drinking. Normally I avoid the subjects, but I always seem to get drawn in and I get frustrated that his version of reality is just drastically different than mine. I don't know why it makes me so upset - I guess it's the way he casts his characters. I have yet to hear him ever apologize or take responsibility for his own actions, he's still deeply entrenched in the thinking patterns of the alcoholic - the locus of control is outside of himself.

The biggest problem is that he doesn't want to let go of what we had, even though it was pretty crappy. He doesn't want to let go of me. But it's not even me, really, that he wants. It's this person inside of his head that he has created, and he gets angry when I behave contrary to that character. When he gets angry now, he calls 10 times in a row, leaves angry, cruel messages if I don't answer, sometimes he comes to my house and pounds on the door.

Probably right before I came to this forum, he was at my front door banging on it saying "You're crazy" over and over and over again in a sing song voice. I just sat in the living room praying that he would leave. Eventually he did, but it was pretty insane to hear that for 20 minutes. I kind of started to believe him. It allowed me to push myself to an emotional place that allowed a breakthrough, but it was tough to go through.

I don't really try anything anymore. I don't know what to do. I really wish he would just disappear, but that would hurt my son too much. He loves his Dad, warts and all.

I'm aware that we had an abusive relationship, but I feel like I took part in crazymaking behaviors that fueled the fire. We aren't together anymore, but I still have to heal something to end the violence.

[elucidate]

That's tough, especially when he is in this delusion you mentioned , of who you are to him. I know that feeling and it can be scary and alienating, and lonely I think when someone doesn't even really see you but professes to want to be with you...not a great dynamic there.

Wish I could wave my magical wand

Do you feel trapped? That's the sense I'm getting...

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Yeah I started to feel trapped when I was pregnant.

[elucidate]

I bet you did. Don't know what I can say here Lakshmi, except I hear ya...

[James81]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

But it's not even me, really, that he wants. It's this person inside of his head that he has created, and he gets angry when I behave contrary to that character.

How can you know this?

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by James81

How can you know this?

I don't. But when I ask him what it is about me that he loves or wants, he lists qualities that I don't have.

I just don't see how he could want to posses something and destroy it at the same time.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

I don't. But when I ask him what it is about me that he loves or wants, he lists qualities that I don't have.

Does this mean that he has you built up in his mind? Or could it mean something else?

Like, for instance, that there are certain qualities that you have that you aren't seeing for yourself.

Or that he has a different definition for those qualities than you do.

Is it absolutely true that just because you don't see those qualities in yourself, that it means he has built you up into something you're not?

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

I just don't see how he could want to posses something and destroy it at the same time.

The desire to possess another person seems to me to be a very destructive mindset. It kinda degrades the idea of letting them choose. It also seems to me that when you are focused on wanting to have or possess something, that you are focusing on yourself and your desire to have it and not the thing that you want to have. (If that makes any sense)

[elucidate]

He may be acting unconsciously? We all have this aspect in us, to destroy. It sounds like he is reacting without thinking and is seeing things in you that either aren't there, or that you don't see? Or, they could be projections of himself that he is seeing through you and hasn't owned them yet?

Wanting to posess you sounds like control issues on his part?

[Angela]

What would be an ideal outcome, one that all three of you could experience as a win? What would be happening, what would you be feeling? What would you be seeing and hearing?

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by James81

Does this mean that he has you built up in his mind? Or could it mean something else?

Either he's built me up in his mind, or there is a deeply entrenched limiting belief. Not that I am unworthy. That I am worth ♥♥♥♥♥. There is a difference. Someone on these forums once accused me of being a masochist and I reacted strongly resisting the label.

But I don't enjoy suffering. This is what I believe I must endure. Like Padre Pio. The stigmata is desirable.

Is it absolutely true that just because you don't see those qualities in yourself, that it means he has built you up into something you're not?

No, it's not absolutely true at all. I was grasping at straws. Trying to understand why there is a huge disconnect between what he says and what he does.

The desire to possess another person seems to me to be a very destructive mindset. It kinda degrades the idea of letting them choose. It also seems to me that when you are focused on wanting to have or possess something, that you are focusing on yourself and your desire to have it and not the thing that you want to have. (If that makes any sense)

He had a spirit guide or something that was female and told him my last name. He's 8 1/2 years older than I am and apparently the day I was born in 1979 he locked himself in a closet for 8 hours to "say goodbye" to his friend.

He is convinced that that was me, and that we are cosmically linked.

But to be around him is wretched. Wretched suffering.

[elucidate]

He had a spirit guide or something that was female and told him my last name. He's 8 1/2 years older than I am and apparently the day I was born in 1979 he locked himself in a closet for 8 hours to "say goodbye" to his friend.

He is convinced that that was me, and that we are cosmically linked.

But to be around him is wretched. Wretched suffering.

This has the flavour of obsession to it...his obsession. It sounds a bit messed up to me.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by Angela

What would be an ideal outcome, one that all three of you could experience as a win? What would be happening, what would you be feeling? What would you be seeing and hearing?

We would be able to interact without the seesaw, pushing, pulling. We could interact without the tension. I would feel peaceful and calm. I would feel stable and safe. I would be less reactive and defensive.

I would be seeing calm facial expressions. Not the kind of weird looks you get when someone wants to say something mean to you but they just bite their tongue and still think it at you. I would be hearing supportive, calm dialogues. Everyone's mind would be open. Everyone would be seeking the best for themselves, and it would infiltrate the whole system with a positive dynamic.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

We would be able to interact without the seesaw, pushing, pulling. We could interact without the tension. I would feel peaceful and calm. I would feel stable and safe. I would be less reactive and defensive.

I would be seeing calm facial expressions. Not the kind of weird looks you get when someone wants to say something mean to you but they just bite their tongue and still think it at you. I would be hearing supportive, calm dialogues. Everyone's mind would be open. Everyone would be seeking the best for themselves, and it would infiltrate the whole system with a positive dynamic.

That sounds lovely. Why not project yourself out into the future (ask your unconscious mind how far out you need to go), and looking back, what got you here? What inner resources did you use to get to this wonderful state of affairs? What kind of actions did you take? Who helped you? How did you create this?

[James81]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

Not that I am unworthy. That I am worth ♥♥♥♥♥. There is a difference. Someone on these forums once accused me of being a masochist and I reacted strongly resisting the label.

So, in a way you feel like you don't deserve better than what he has to offer? Or that you feel like you have to endure the suffering caused by being with him...for what purpose?

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

No, it's not absolutely true at all. I was grasping at straws. Trying to understand why there is a huge disconnect between what he says and what he does.

Yeah, I can imagine that would be tough. When people's actions don't match the words they are saying, that's a little ****ed up.

The interesting thing, though, is that the disconnect is all based on our interpretations of these people...our perceptions and reactions to what is happening. Don't you think? I mean, we can't see what is happening in other people's heads. All we really have is the evidence they give us and the scramble to take the puzzle pieces we have and fit them together in a way that makes sense.

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

But to be around him is wretched. Wretched suffering.

Is THAT always true? Just being around him is suffering all the time? Or is it specific things he does that causes the suffering? Are there ever things he does that doesn't cause you to suffer?

[Federer]

Are you all fine at the moment?? (as a human being after reading that sentence that he was beating your door over and over made me worried for you)

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by Angela

That sounds lovely. Why not project yourself out into the future (ask your unconscious mind how far out you need to go), and looking back, what got you here? What inner resources did you use to get to this wonderful state of affairs? What kind of actions did you take? Who helped you? How did you create this?

I don't believe that it's actually possible.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by James81

So, in a way you feel like you don't deserve better than what he has to offer? Or that you feel like you have to endure the suffering caused by being with him...for what purpose?

Suffering makes the soul. The deeper the mud, the more beautiful the lotus blossom. Trial by fire.

I'm sure that this is because this has been my mode of existence since I was very young. 31 years of conditioning, speaking from the oral stoma of this body.

The interesting thing, though, is that the disconnect is all based on our interpretations of these people...our perceptions and reactions to what is happening. Don't you think? I mean, we can't see what is happening in other people's heads. All we really have is the evidence they give us and the scramble to take the puzzle pieces we have and fit them together in a way that makes sense.

If they tell you they love you and cherish you and strangle you, kick you down a hallway, or push your face into the ground and say "who do you think you are, you're nothing" - that's a clear disconnect isn't it? Not just a perception or reaction?

Is THAT always true? Just being around him is suffering all the time? Or is it specific things he does that causes the suffering? Are there ever things he does that doesn't cause you to suffer?

He does nice things, but they cause suffering because they are apologies. I feel like he's trying to make up for things that he has done. I don't want anything anymore from him, not even child support, because everything has a price. I must pay the toll to get my reward. I don't ask for child support, either. If he throws me $20 here, $50 there, that's a bonus.

I remember every incident so clearly. Obviously I hold onto these for some reason. Like Kali's girdle of severed arms.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by Federer

Are you all fine at the moment?? (as a human being after reading that sentence that he was beating your door over and over made me worried for you)

thank you. I feel teary. Sad. Sick to my stomach.

[elucidate]

It's a strange thing that people who abuse us in relationships do actually love us, and treat us this way. It was probably behaviour he watched his father impose on his mother when he was young and is acting it out now.

That doesn't help I know, and it makes no sense. The part of him that isn't dictated by his patterns probably does love you a lot...he just isn't willing to give up the behaviour. Maybe that's how he defines love?

[ssandra]

I'm so sorry that you have to go through all this.

I wish I had some good advice for you to offer but I don't... just that maybe you can see if you can minimize interactions with him all together?

I mean... you have to talk to him at some moments, but what if you keep the subjects of those talks on your son, which is the only thing you still have with him...

And about him banging on your door singing "You are crazy".... why not call the police? I'd do that if someone did that to me...

Nobody has the right to harass me in my own house and scare me....

Or maybe next time you can put on some loud music so you don't hear him anymore? Or maybe put on some head phones?

[Federer]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

thank you. I feel teary. Sad. Sick to my stomach.

No, i should thank you. Don't worry everything will be clear after taking its enough time and you are solving it. Take medicines for here's lovely souls and for my friendship, too. There is no need be more sad lakshmi.

@Eluci, that was bitter truth. Bitter fact about how some people love their relatives. It made sense to me. I understand such people. They are always in need of love and safety for their emotions.

[Federer]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I'm so sorry that you have to go through all this.

I wish I had some good advice for you to offer but I don't... just that maybe you can see if you can minimize interactions with him all together?

I mean... you have to talk to him at some moments, but what if you keep the subjects of those talks on your son, which is the only thing you still have with him...

And about him banging on your door singing "You are crazy".... why not call the police? I'd do that if someone did that to me...

Nobody has the right to harass me in my own house and scare me....

Or maybe next time you can put on some loud music so you don't hear him anymore? Or maybe put on some head phones?

Yes, she can try this. She can also hear the youtube healing mantras. They have power and lakshmi can find her strength which is supreme.

@lakshmi, look at this point please.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by ssandra

And about him banging on your door singing "You are crazy".... why not call the police? I'd do that if someone did that to me...

Nobody has the right to harass me in my own house and scare me....

I've done that before. Right after my miscarriage earlier this year when he kicked me down the hallway. I called the police, but the part of the US I live in is very misogynist. Lots of good old boys who don't think there is such a thing as domestic violence, or that it's not that big a deal. It just generally doesn't get prosecuted much round here, and it's something everyone knows but doesn't discuss.

There was a department of children and families case opened (there always is when domestic violence occurs in front of children). The caseworker told me to try to handle it myself in the future, that they would likely take my son into foster care if I called for police intervention again.

Honestly, I don't rely on the police. I've never had a positive resolution come from asking them for help.

Or maybe next time you can put on some loud music so you don't hear him anymore? Or maybe put on some head phones?

That would be better than crying, I suppose.

[elucidate]

Is there anyway you can take your son and relocate somewhere not so mysoginistic? Do you have the means to...or was that the plan with travelling and working at organic farms?

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by elucidate

The part of him that isn't dictated by his patterns probably does love you a lot...he just isn't willing to give up the behaviour. Maybe that's how he defines love?

Yes, when we initially split I gave him the opportunity to get help. I didn't care what, AA, private therapy, group therapy. Something outside of himself and his friends' advice.

But he refuses. he says he doesn't need therapy. I say, everyone can benefit from someone challenging their beliefs. I say tomato, he says tomahto. I've asked him why he refuses therapy, he says he didn't refuse, that I should find one for him to see. Uhhh...ok....I tell him he needs to do this on his own, he refuses. When I ask why he refuses, he says he didn't refuse. You see where this is going. I can't even think straight when we have to have conversations anymore.

I feel like I have lost my mind. It's just weird. Our stories about what happened at various domestic violence incidents are dramatically different. In his stories he stands helplessly while I attack viciously and without provokation, throwing punches like a champ, and that every act against me is completely defensive.

But I don't REMEMBER that happening! I remember something else happening! And I want to say "why won't you believe me?!"

What I remember is that I do yell and get angry and say things that are unnecessary...and I expect the violence. I expect to get hit or kicked or choked. And it happens - and I see that same face. The same effing face I've seen over and over - the man who molested me, the men who raped me - the same expressionless face. Like they are possessed themselves.

And I am afraid, too, that he is right. That I am just crazy and none of it ever really happened...

If it hadn't happened, would I be free?

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

And I am afraid, too, that he is right. That I am just crazy and none of it ever really happened...

If it hadn't happened, would I be free?

HE is the crazy one here, not you!!!!

How can you "imagine" someone kicking you or throwing you into the hall way? You cannot.

What happened really happened and because of the effect and power he still has over you, you start to doubt yourself.

If I can give you any advice... move away. Even if you have to just pack everything in your car and just leave, do it.

Your son is better of with no father, than with a father like this. What kind of example is he setting for your son?

he still has a lot of power over you. You have been incredibly strong, getting him out of your house. Now you have to be strong for a bit longer and get him out of your life as well.

(I am sorry if I come across angry. I do feel a lot of anger, but it is directed at this .... I cannot say because I'd have to ban myself.... and at the police and people who are supposed to protect us... not at you. It is also aimed at myself, for feeling so helpless, when I just want to go to where ever you live, and fix everything for you)

[James81]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

Suffering makes the soul. The deeper the mud, the more beautiful the lotus blossom. Trial by fire.

The Buddha would say that suffering is generated from within, and that suffering comes from attachment.

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

If they tell you they love you and cherish you and strangle you, kick you down a hallway, or push your face into the ground and say "who do you think you are, you're nothing" - that's a clear disconnect isn't it? Not just a perception or reaction?

Is it? I mean, I can see why you perceive it that way, but also understand that in his head, he has "all the pieces" and for some wacky reason, what he's doing makes sense to him in some way...or serves him some purpose.

Since you are religious, I might also remind you of something that Jesus said when the Jews were persecuting and torturing him and crucifying him....He said:

"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."

Now, I don't bring that up as some sort of self-righteous justification for his action, nor do I bring it up as some viewpoint you *should* hold. My focus, actually, is on that "they know not what they do."

I believe that he doesn't really know why he does it....or what he is doing to you. And that, in no way, makes it right or justifiable...but I do think that realizing this within yourself will give you access to a boatload of forgiveness. I think that's how Jesus was able to forgive.

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

He does nice things, but they cause suffering because they are apologies. I feel like he's trying to make up for things that he has done. I don't want anything anymore from him, not even child support, because everything has a price. I must pay the toll to get my reward. I don't ask for child support, either. If he throws me $20 here, $50 there, that's a bonus.

I remember every incident so clearly. Obviously I hold onto these for some reason. Like Kali's girdle of severed arms.

Why do you think you hold onto them?

[Federer]

@Sandra, calm down vibes to you.

@Lakshmi, sandra is right. She has one point that you should move away from there.

Hmm, see, such people have so many things to say. I have dealt with such people. Even i succeed to shut their mouth off completely. You have force them to realize what they are doing? Make them realize about their reality. They will be not able answer you. But in this case, it may be difficult for you.

Can you talk to your any relative or any friend right now??

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

Yes, when we initially split I gave him the opportunity to get help. I didn't care what, AA, private therapy, group therapy. Something outside of himself and his friends' advice.

But he refuses. he says he doesn't need therapy. I say, everyone can benefit from someone challenging their beliefs. I say tomato, he says tomahto. I've asked him why he refuses therapy, he says he didn't refuse, that I should find one for him to see. Uhhh...ok....I tell him he needs to do this on his own, he refuses. When I ask why he refuses, he says he didn't refuse. You see where this is going. I can't even think straight when we have to have conversations anymore.

I feel like I have lost my mind. It's just weird. Our stories about what happened at various domestic violence incidents are dramatically different. In his stories he stands helplessly while I attack viciously and without provokation, throwing punches like a champ, and that every act against me is completely defensive.

But I don't REMEMBER that happening! I remember something else happening! And I want to say "why won't you believe me?!"

What I remember is that I do yell and get angry and say things that are unnecessary...and I expect the violence. I expect to get hit or kicked or choked. And it happens - and I see that same face. The same effing face I've seen over and over - the man who molested me, the men who raped me - the same expressionless face. Like they are possessed themselves.

And I am afraid, too, that he is right. That I am just crazy and none of it ever really happened...

If it hadn't happened, would I be free?

NO! He is manipulating the reality of what happened to suit himself and make you the guilty party so he doesn't have to be accountable for any of his own abusive behaviour. It's highly abusive to mess with someones mind this way, and this is what he is doing.

You aren't crazy...but if you stay with him it WILL drive you crazy and you will start to take on the responsability that belongs to him!

I've been through the same thing with the last fella I was seeing, though he wasn't physically abusive to the same extent as with you. He would re-arrange reality after the fact to suit himself, and I would always say "NO...that's not what happened, that is just YOU changing the story to make yourself out to be the innocent party here, and that it is my fault somehow"...and I could see his eyes when he realized that I knew what he was doing and wouldn't allow it, they were like a little kid who's been caught doing something naughty. pathetic

It makes me feel mad that he is doing this to you Lakshmi.

Please hold onto this reality...that it is HIM, not you. He's the crazy one here...or at least has some very deep issues, possibly personality disorder that he may never deal with. You shouldn't have to, and it's no place for your son. I know you want him to have a father, but do you really want him to be around someone who treats you this way? What sort of message will that give your son?

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Ugh, this is a tough contraction. At least I've given birth without pain medicine, so I know what to expect. Sort of.

The little girl I watch has an alcoholic father. She's 2, and tells me that she has a bad daddy who needs mama to take care of him. Oh Lord. I don't want my son to think that. He's already so compassionate, too compassionate for a toddler. He hugs me and kisses my cheek when I cry and tells me that he loves me, too. I don't want him to feel this burden, of needing to soothe others.

I don't want him to inherit this disease.