My son's father

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by James81

You ARE good at this! I think you must be some kind of wizard, actually.

For who could, in their right mind anyway (), come in here and say "Oh, but people can't do damage to you with their advice. Only you can do damage to you over someone's advice" when you mention that your dog just died (how insensitive of us to talk about anything other than the dog and your sadness with that ) and that you are going to discuss this with a professional who has spent 12 years working with you and getting you nowhere (never EVER talk about a patient's relationship with her therapist! ).

Ah well, we had a good run. I appreciate the flavor that you bring to this place, and I've enjoyed picking your brain. I really AM sorry about your dog. I know that can be worse to lose a pet sometimes than it is to lose an actual family member (crazy as that might sound).

I look forward to the capacity within which your presence on the forums change, and I hope the you find what you're looking for.

I was confused and a little put off by this, James. Why go to the trouble of mentioning things you say shouldn't be mentioned? I can't understand if you're being passive aggressive and sarcastic here or what?

It's really pretty disrespectful to criticize Lakshy (based on false information, I might add) for making a choice for herself based on what she feels is best. Isn't that the whole purpose of personal development? To make choices for yourself that work for you? Especially with "choice" being the buzzword it is around here, I don't get why you'd negate her choice in such a fashion.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

It's not that I don't appreciate it, it's just that you guys don't really know what you're dealing with and you can do a lot more harm than you think with well intentioned advice.

One time, I counseled a kid to stick up for himself against bullies. He ended up with a broken arm. That taught me to be careful what you're stepping into, because it might be a real mess. I think it's a lesson most here should learn.

[James81]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

I was confused and a little put off by this, James. Why go to the trouble of mentioning things you say shouldn't be mentioned? I can't understand if you're being passive aggressive and sarcastic here or what?

It's really pretty disrespectful to criticize Lakshy (based on false information, I might add) for making a choice for herself based on what she feels is best. Isn't that the whole purpose of personal development? To make choices for yourself that work for you? Especially with "choice" being the buzzword it is around here, I don't get why you'd negate her choice in such a fashion.

It's just what came to mind when I read her post. (and I know that at least one other person thought the same thing because I got a rep point saying so)

I wasn't trying to negate her choice. I was expressing what I saw, and what I've been seeing (before I even made that post actually) was that she has been progressively moving towards "shutting down" in her posts. Moving from a place of openess to other viewpoints slowly towards pushing people out.

I'm not entirely sure that I *get* the whole idea of people getting bent over posts on an open forum. That is, when you make a post for ALL to see, you're going to get a mix of feedback, some of which you'll undoubtedly perceive as insensitive. It's just the nature of public expression. You can't really control what people say publicly, and vehemently resisting it tends to bring you more of what you don't want (ask me how I know this ).

So, in that vein, I think it probably IS best that she continue her exploration of these issues in more of a "safe" environment (that is, with her therapist and/or with those around here who are better at the empathy thing) if she can't handle the mix of feedback that comes with a thread like this. I made the assumption, though, that she is very capable of handling this type of feedback, though.

So, no, I'm not negating her choice. I was just expressing what I saw in her posts (which, as we all know by now, undoubtedly means way more about me than it does about her).

[James81]

Originally Posted by VinceG

One time, I counseled a kid to stick up for himself against bullies. He ended up with a broken arm. That taught me to be careful what you're stepping into, because it might be a real mess. I think it's a lesson most here should learn.

I wonder if the bullies left him alone after that.

You see that he wound up with a broken arm, so you felt like your advice did more damage than good.

But a broken arm heals in time. What matters is what happens AFTER the broken arm. If they left him alone, I would say that the value of that broken arm (despite how terrible it felt at the time) was greater than not having stood up to them at all (because they'd probably be still picking on him).

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by James81

I wonder if the bullies left him alone after that.

You see that he wound up with a broken arm, so you felt like your advice did more damage than good.

But a broken arm heals in time. What matters is what happens AFTER the broken arm. If they left him alone, I would say that the value of that broken arm (despite how terrible it felt at the time) was greater than not having stood up to them at all (because they'd probably be still picking on him).

It doesn't matter what happened after the broken arm, or whether the kids stopped picking on him. What matters is the broken arm, which my advice directly led to. Had I taken the time to appreciate his situation more, or to give him less dangerous advice, then the arm would not have been broken.

Your advice seems to be very reactionary. Whatever you feel is right, you counsel right off the bat. While that's helpful in a pinch, it's like going to your auntie for advice. Your auntie never trained in any kind of counseling, doesn't have much in the way of experience in your kind of situation, and doesn't really know what to tell you. But you need advice, so she's going to try to be as helpful as she can.

Maybe you'll get there in the long run with two people putting their minds to a situation, but what some people really need is the care and attention of a professional.

[elucidate]

Hi Lakshmi, I just caught up with this thread now, and I wanted to express that I hope you feel better soon from the grief of your loss. Losing animals can be just as hard as losing someone you love. It took me nearly ten years to 'get over' my cat dying...even after I thought I was over it, years later, I was still affected by her death.

I totally support you in your decision to withdraw from sharing these issues with all of us here, as I know exactly where you are coming from. I won't be sharing any more of my issues here either as there are just too many people who lack empathy here, and I don't feel safe to anymore, which is a shame as there are some genuinely caring and empathic people here, and they are gems...but it's just too risky. And yeah, people don't often realize the damage they can do trying to 'help'!

Keeping it between you and your therapist sounds like a wise decision. I am doing the same.

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by James81

It's just what came to mind when I read her post. (and I know that at least one other person thought the same thing because I got a rep point saying so)

I wasn't trying to negate her choice. I was expressing what I saw, and what I've been seeing (before I even made that post actually) was that she has been progressively moving towards "shutting down" in her posts. Moving from a place of openess to other viewpoints slowly towards pushing people out.

I don't see her pushing people out, I see her moving towards what works better for her: professional help, in a setting she considers safe. Sorry to talk about you in the third person here, Laks.

I'm not entirely sure that I *get* the whole idea of people getting bent over posts on an open forum. That is, when you make a post for ALL to see, you're going to get a mix of feedback, some of which you'll undoubtedly perceive as insensitive. It's just the nature of public expression. You can't really control what people say publicly, and vehemently resisting it tends to bring you more of what you don't want (ask me how I know this ).

Yeah, but knowing that intellectually and feeling what it feels like to be criticized and dug into are two separate things entirely.

So, in that vein, I think it probably IS best that she continue her exploration of these issues in more of a "safe" environment (that is, with her therapist and/or with those around here who are better at the empathy thing) if she can't handle the mix of feedback that comes with a thread like this. I made the assumption, though, that she is very capable of handling this type of feedback, though.

I keep hearing you hinting that she's incapable or weak for "not being able to handle it." Which is rather harsh, don't you think? I see that she's shifting her focus from one type of help to another. Nothing to do with what she is and isn't "ready for," as soooo many people love to assume when their advice isn't well-received.

I dunno, obviously we're just comparing viewpoints here, and it probably isn't worth it to keep debating about a third party. I just feel like the perspective you're using here isn't fair or supportive to Lakshi. I would think anyone who'd have her best interests in mind wouldn't say the type of stuff you did, and then back it up with such a weak excuse: "That's just how I felt." But I do agree that it has nothing to do with Lakshi and everything to with you (and me )

[agsags]

Originally Posted by James81

[...]The ones who study the bejesus out of psychology and/or spirituality not so much as a way to help yourself (although that is what you consciously tell yourself), but, rather, as a way to fortify yourself and dismiss outside influence.

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

This struck me as something that could very well apply to me. What do you mean by dismiss outside influence? What's wrong with that?

I would understand it as being closed to influence those who are more open than you and using complex theories to fortify one's current position of closure. "I won't do A because [theoretical explanations follows]". Freud talked about intellectualization being one of the defenses.

Intellectual knowledge is easy - and it's easy to derive it from books for a smart person. Putting this knowledge to the ground, living it through the body is much harder and almost always requires interaction with others, being influenced by them and readjusting theories.

A lot of growth comes from being influenced by others. To refuse benevolent influence is to refuse growth and openness.

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by agsags

I would understand it as being closed to influence those who are more open than you and using complex theories to fortify one's current position of closure. "I won't do A because [theoretical explanations follows]". Freud talked about intellectualization being one of the defenses.

Intellectual knowledge is easy - and it's easy to derive it from books for a smart person. Putting this knowledge to the ground, living it through the body is much harder and almost always requires interaction with others, being influenced by them and readjusting theories.

A lot of growth comes from being influenced by others. To refuse benevolent influence is to refuse growth and openness.

Hm, okay, interesting point. But I didn't see Lakshi's decision of closure as intellectualization. In fact, I think it was probably a more visceral response--doing x hurts, so I won't do x anymore.

I don't think all the influence in this thread has been necessarily benevolent, either. Maybe in its intention, but not in its execution.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I have a prepaid card for the toll roads now, much more convenient.

[agsags]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

This struck me as something that could very well apply to me. What do you mean by dismiss outside influence? What's wrong with that?

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

Hm, okay, interesting point. But I didn't see Lakshi's decision of closure as intellectualization. In fact, I think it was probably a more visceral response--doing x hurts, so I won't do x anymore.

I don't think all the influence in this thread has been necessarily benevolent, either. Maybe in its intention, but not in its execution.

I was answering your question outside of context of this thread. A lot of influence is not benevolent and road to hell can be paved by the best intentions of others. However there are people whose influence would be positive on you. Self is good, but there is a place beyond that.

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by agsags

I was answering your question outside of context of this thread. A lot of influence is not benevolent and road to hell can be paved by the best intentions of others. However there are people whose influence would be positive on you. Self is good, but there is a place beyond that.

Oh. Were you reading my other thread, in Social & Relationships? Funny coincidence if not, because we're talking about the exact same thing there.

Yeah, I know there's such a thing as positive influence. I trust myself to know when someone's influence is working for me and when it isn't.

[Senin]

Laks, I'm very sorry to hear about your dog.

Sadness is natural in that case.

Bad times don't last forever. People, like the economy, like life, have bad times and good. Things will turn around. They really can. When you are sitting in the middle of it, it doesn't feel like it, but time can heal.

Things will get better.