My son's father

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by James81

Now, consider the idea that these thoughts are attached to your identity (the way in which you view yourself) in some way.

"Weakness is unacceptable and cannot be tolerated"....what does that mean about YOU? What do you feel about yourself? (It's going to look like some sort of "I am ___" statement.)

You willing to take a look?

sure...I am unacceptable and must be punished.

no that's not it.

purification comes through suffering.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

I am unacceptable and must be punished.

Why's that?

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by James81

Why's that?

None of this seems authentic to me. My own responses, I mean. Because all of these reactions and emotions stem from a character. They are not mine or me. When I read that statement I don't feel anything.

Maybe I should just leave this alone for a while because I'm not really making any headway right now.

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

None of this seems authentic to me. My own responses, I mean. Because all of these reactions and emotions stem from a character. They are not mine or me. When I read that statement I don't feel anything.

Maybe I should just leave this alone for a while because I'm not really making any headway right now.

Sometimes this kind of incessant digging leads to... not inauthenticity, but fabrication. No, that's not quite it, either. Fabrication implies that there's some truth to cover up, that you're disguising something as something else. Remember, there is no ultimate Truth. There's only Now, and what's happening now. Furthermore, there's no coherent "self" that events happen to.

All "you" are is the collection of sensory input, mental images, feelings, whatever is happening right now. That's all.

Self: the ultimate persistent delusion.

[spacecadetglow]

So like, in these moments that we "uncover" our demons and have these white-hot realizations... what's actually occurring? We're not discovering anything, we're simply re-imagining ourselves, rewriting the stories as we go. Some stories work better than others. That's all there is to it.

So not to discount the psychoanalytic (or whatever) process that PD (Angela) does, but sometimes you genuinely might be furrowing for something that's not there. That's when you know it's time to get up and do something different.

[ssandra]

Once you realize what or which belief has been running you unconsciously

(Bringing the unconscious to the conscious)

You can choose something else. Or not. Whatever you like. But you bring choice into your life where before you were unconsciously run by an outdated program.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

So the theme of forgiveness comes again and again to the hot spots of my conscious mind, and it really is forgiving and accepting myself.

I create my own reality.

Do I forgive myself by forgiving others? Or will others be forgiven when I forgive myself? I feel like Winnie the Pooh. Think think think

You can only forgive after you surrender. Accept the situation as it is, don't start looking for ways it can be better. It's a tough situation that you can't run from nor can you fix in one fell swoop. It'll take awhile. Do what you can when you can do it, and what you can't do will work itself out in the long run. If you can fully accept that, then the situation won't cause any undue stress. Once you're not being stressed constantly by resisting what can't be changed, then you can go about forgiveness.

[James81]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

Sometimes this kind of incessant digging leads to... not inauthenticity, but fabrication. No, that's not quite it, either. Fabrication implies that there's some truth to cover up, that you're disguising something as something else. Remember, there is no ultimate Truth. There's only Now, and what's happening now. Furthermore, there's no coherent "self" that events happen to.

All "you" are is the collection of sensory input, mental images, feelings, whatever is happening right now. That's all.

Self: the ultimate persistent delusion.

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

So like, in these moments that we "uncover" our demons and have these white-hot realizations... what's actually occurring? We're not discovering anything, we're simply re-imagining ourselves, rewriting the stories as we go. Some stories work better than others. That's all there is to it.

So not to discount the psychoanalytic (or whatever) process that PD (Angela) does, but sometimes you genuinely might be furrowing for something that's not there. That's when you know it's time to get up and do something different.

When (and yes, I say "when" and not "if" because I personally believe that both you and Lakshy are primed and ready for this based on your posts recently)....so, when you discover these beliefs you're going to have a significant emotional reaction to them. Not just that, you're going to know pretty much exactly where they came from, so you'll know that you're not imagining or inventing them as some sort of bringing something up that's not there. These are real beliefs that you decide about yourself at a young age, and when you discover them you'll note the profound emotional reaction that you have to them and you'll see it everywhere in your life.

And in my case, I can even hear someone else FEEDING them to me. That is, I remember my dad calling me worthless, helpless, "don't have common sense", weak, and stupid. Like, I mean he literally said those things to me at various times in my childhood. I can remember my mom saying "you should be ashamed of yourself" and how the whole world growing up was tainted under a banner of "good" or "bad" (or evil). I remember my brother calling me ugly many times (and fat actually).

And those are all my "gremlins" that I've uncovered right here on the forums. (which you can read about in some of my threads )

Actually, the only one that I've uncovered that I can't remember anybody feeding me was "I'm on my own."

Wow, just typing that out made me realize and I'm kinda surprised....I created that one completely "on my own". Perhaps that's why it's so deep...perhaps that's why it's so hard to "let go of." I dunno.

Anyway, my point being that these aren't fabrications by any stretch of [my] imagination anyway. These are real decisions I've made about myself based on real incidents from my childhood.

I use myself as an example, to further illustrate the point. If you're feeling like you're just faking or it's not authentic, then perhaps you're not looking in the right places for them.

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by James81

When (and yes, I say "when" and not "if" because I personally believe that both you and Lakshy are primed and ready for this based on your posts recently)....so, when you discover these beliefs you're going to have a significant emotional reaction to them. Not just that, you're going to know pretty much exactly where they came from, so you'll know that you're not imagining or inventing them as some sort of bringing something up that's not there. These are real beliefs that you decide about yourself at a young age, and when you discover them you'll note the profound emotional reaction that you have to them and you'll see it everywhere in your life.

And in my case, I can even hear someone else FEEDING them to me. That is, I remember my dad calling me worthless, helpless, "don't have common sense", weak, and stupid. Like, I mean he literally said those things to me at various times in my childhood. I can remember my mom saying "you should be ashamed of yourself" and how the whole world growing up was tainted under a banner of "good" or "bad" (or evil). I remember my brother calling me ugly many times (and fat actually).

And those are all my "gremlins" that I've uncovered right here on the forums. (which you can read about in some of my threads )

Actually, the only one that I've uncovered that I can't remember anybody feeding me was "I'm on my own."

Wow, just typing that out made me realize and I'm kinda surprised....I created that one completely "on my own". Perhaps that's why it's so deep...perhaps that's why it's so hard to "let go of." I dunno.

Anyway, my point being that these aren't fabrications by any stretch of [my] imagination anyway. These are real decisions I've made about myself based on real incidents from my childhood.

I use myself as an example, to further illustrate the point. If you're feeling like you're just faking or it's not authentic, then perhaps you're not looking in the right places for them.

Yeah, and I think it's great that you've gone through this self-realization process. I'm sometimes (often) envious that many people here seem to have everything figured out. I wish my world were a neat little package of "gremlins," but I don't think it's that way for me. Furthermore, I have a strong, deeply rooted, almost aggressive tendency to do things my way. Which is why you see me being so contrary much of the time. It's actually this push-pull thing that happens to me. I made that thread the other day, the "Choosing your Emotions" one, as a way to sort of hop on the bandwagon. And then, here, you see me hopping right off of it and crossing my arms. I simultaneously need to be accepted and assimilated, while stile maintaining my individuality.

Anyway, for the psychological stuff, my parents are awesome. They're kind, generous, and have given me the world. I don't have any recollection of them putting pressure on me, calling me worthless, anything like that. I wasn't abused, nor molested, nor raped, nor beaten. Nothing. The worst part about it for me is that I bring this ♥♥♥♥♥ on myself.

Seems like it'd be easier if I did have some kind of traumatic event to shape everything else around!

Oh well. I've done some of this uncovering limiting beliefs work. It helped in the short-term but I haven't had any sort of intense emotional reaction to any of it. Nor have I experienced a sudden and life-changing shift in my reality. *shrug* And I'm not that interested in being told I'm just not doing it right, if I'm not getting the same results as everyone else. In fact, nothing irks me more, and I know exactly why...

I don't know. I'm having a lot of breakthroughs lately, but a whooole lot of neuroticism as well. Sometimes the incessant digging and introspection can make me self-absorbed at best and a total nervous wreck over nooothing at worst. Such is the work of PD.

Sorry to hijack your thread, Lakshi!

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Oh I don't mind, it's nice to see something else on here other than my navel gazing posts where I dissect belly button lint into it's various subatomic particles.

I was feeling weird yesterday and I spent the evening thinking "How am I not my self?" a la I Heart Huckabees. I wish I could hire some existential detectives to humorously help me ferret out the basis of my dilemma.

One thing that came to me suddenly whilst brushing my teeth last night was that I don't want to be a burden on anyone.

[ssandra]

As an alternative for "gremlin hunting" and finding that identity level limiting belief, my husband is doing something similar but completely different in his therapy now.

According to his psych. what happens is that we learn certain habits that help us at that moment, and we keep on using them. However, those habits may work for some thing s but not for all.

As an example; he has learned to "bland" his emotions. Not to feel any emotion to strong in certain situations. This is good when it comes to certain things (like when people yell) but not so good when it comes to other things (like sex ).
So now he is not really finding out exactly where it came from, but more finding out how he can change this habit in the area's where it is not working.

For you Laks, one habit that I see over and over would be blaming yourself. I can see how that helped you in the past, but I can also see how putting the blame on yourself isn't working in the situation with your ex husband. That would be a habit that you could think about if it is useful in every interaction that you are using it in.

For you Space, one habit might be being stubborn and defensive. I can clearly see how that might help you a lot in certain area's, but when you start to be stubborn just to be stubborn, it might not be so great.

Maybe this helps as an alternative to gremlin hunting... finding out which habits have unconsciously ingrained themselves in your lifes, and thinking about if they are helpful or not.

To change any habit you could try a 30 day trial. See if you want to keep the habit in that one area or if you want to permanently change it.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

Oh I don't mind, it's nice to see something else on here other than my navel gazing posts where I dissect belly button lint into it's various subatomic particles.

I was feeling weird yesterday and I spent the evening thinking "How am I not my self?" a la I Heart Huckabees. I wish I could hire some existential detectives to humorously help me ferret out the basis of my dilemma.

One thing that came to me suddenly whilst brushing my teeth last night was that I don't want to be a burden on anyone.

Not being a burden on anyone is a familiar feeling to me too. The most annoying thing to me would be when people would sacrifice themselves to help me. I don't accept pity or help from anyone who thinks it is their duty to help me. My experience is these annoyingly helpful people physically and emotionally exhaust themselves in their helping of others, then they feel owed something and feel that others don't pitch in enough to help or that people don't care enough.

While there are those that run around sacrificing themselves to help others, there are also those who enjoy helping others because it energizes them. They don't feel emotionally depleted or exhausted. Self sacrificers seem to focus on keeping you disempowered by teaching you that you need to lean on them. They wear a concerned face and look like they truly understand and sympathize, but this is an effort to develop a codependent relationship. They ask things like "are you okay?" "is everything alright?" because they want to teach you to lean on them. The more people lean on them the more they feel they are the martyr who is struggling for a good cause.

People who enjoy giving seem more focused on empowering others and teaching freedom and clarity rather than supporting others by sympathizing with their dire circumstances. If you feel energized after talking to someone, they are not sacrificing themselves. They are only energizing themselves by talking to you. In this case you will not be left feeling like a burden.

Personally I got to the point where I quite explicitly refuse any support from self sacrificers. Then the feeling of being a burden went away. This feeling has nothing to do with being a burden, it has everything to do with being engaged in a codependent relationship designed to make you feel that way.

[elucidate]

Yes, I've experienced these type of people, and I'm totally with you on the Co-dependency thing.
I got kicked out of a house that had two people like this in it, and they treated me like I was the worst person in the world for not cooking for them and sharing all my food and money with them and even for not taking over from being mother to the womans daughter, while she (the mother) went off to have a life. They both were martyrs and made out like it was my moral obligation to do these things while they sat around and smoked weed all day.
That was a big lesson for me actually, to have total control over how much of myself that I chose to give and how much I wanted to help, and what I refused to give into their demands and manipulations, coming from the victim mentality.
These types of people need to learn IMO, that just because they choose to help all the time, doesn't mean everyone else is obliged to return the favour. Giving someone your help should ( and I don't use the word lightly) be done without any expectation of obliged return. If there is that expectation, then the help was given under false motivations to start with.

Originally Posted by AaronB

Not being a burden on anyone is a familiar feeling to me too. The most annoying thing to me would be when people would sacrifice themselves to help me. I don't accept pity or help from anyone who thinks it is their duty to help me. My experience is these annoyingly helpful people physically and emotionally exhaust themselves in their helping of others, then they feel owed something and feel that others don't pitch in enough to help or that people don't care enough.

While there are those that run around sacrificing themselves to help others, there are also those who enjoy helping others because it energizes them. They don't feel emotionally depleted or exhausted. Self sacrificers seem to focus on keeping you disempowered by teaching you that you need to lean on them. They wear a concerned face and look like they truly understand and sympathize, but this is an effort to develop a codependent relationship. They ask things like "are you okay?" "is everything alright?" because they want to teach you to lean on them. The more people lean on them the more they feel they are the martyr who is struggling for a good cause.

People who enjoy giving seem more focused on empowering others and teaching freedom and clarity rather than supporting others by sympathizing with their dire circumstances. If you feel energized after talking to someone, they are not sacrificing themselves. They are only energizing themselves by talking to you. In this case you will not be left feeling like a burden.

Personally I got to the point where I quite explicitly refuse any support from self sacrificers. Then the feeling of being a burden went away. This feeling has nothing to do with being a burden, it has everything to do with being engaged in a codependent relationship designed to make you feel that way.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

I simultaneously need to be accepted and assimilated, while stile maintaining my individuality.

What would happen if you weren't?

Originally Posted by Lakshy

I am unacceptable and must be punished.

What would happen if you were (punished)?

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes, I've experienced these type of people, and I'm totally with you on the Co-dependency thing.
I got kicked out of a house that had two people like this in it, and they treated me like I was the worst person in the world for not cooking for them and sharing all my food and money with them and even for not taking over from being mother to the womans daughter, while she (the mother) went off to have a life. They both were martyrs and made out like it was my moral obligation to do these things while they sat around and smoked weed all day.
That was a big lesson for me actually, to have total control over how much of myself that I chose to give and how much I wanted to help, and what I refused to give into their demands and manipulations, coming from the victim mentality.
These types of people need to learn IMO, that just because they choose to help all the time, doesn't mean everyone else is obliged to return the favour. Giving someone your help should ( and I don't use the word lightly) be done without any expectation of obliged return. If there is that expectation, then the help was given under false motivations to start with.

I like the idea that Martyr types can continue playing their game. They don't need to change. Once I spot the game, I am no longer a good target. I can actually feel pleasantly okay while someone is dramatizing their suffering and my moral obligation to help them.

I am so happy that there is a part of me that knows it when I'm being manipulated. It feels like fingernails on a chalkboard. I can ignore it for a while, but the inner clashing does not go away. Eventually I will realize how I'm being manipulated. As long as their is a hint of disturbance about any subject, I know that there is something I am not seeing clearly there. Once I have perfect clarity, all disturbance is gone.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by AaronB

I like the idea that Martyr types can continue playing their game. They don't need to change. Once I spot the game, I am no longer a good target. I can actually feel pleasantly okay while someone is dramatizing their suffering and my moral obligation to help them.

I am so happy that there is a part of me that knows it when I'm being manipulated. It feels like fingernails on a chalkboard. I can ignore it for a while, but the inner clashing does not go away. Eventually I will realize how I'm being manipulated. As long as their is a hint of disturbance about any subject, I know that there is something I am not seeing clearly there. Once I have perfect clarity, all disturbance is gone.

Oh yes, I don't want to change them. I like being able to just detach from what's going on, whilst knowing what's going on, and just say no and then have them give me dirty looks for months and not talk to me...and I still say no

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by Angela

What would happen if you were (punished)?

I would associate that bad feeling with being myself rather than with the unacceptable behavior. That's why I try to explain to my son that his behavior is the reason for the time out, I don't just put him in his room. And afterwards we always have a talk about what happened, what to do differently, and I always hug him and tell him that I love him and we will both try harder to work together.

Maybe I should try doing this technique with myself, since I spent so much time researching how to do it for him. I knew that the tools my mother gave me weren't the best ones to parent with, instinctively.

Another thing I thought of while writing this is that I feel like I should not exist. That's a should statement. I've tried the tactic of ignoring it, but it still effects my thinking patterns.

I know that I wasn't a planned pregnancy, and my mother is almost mercenary when it comes to planning her life out. I've felt for as long as I can remember, and tracing back the feeling it goes further back than my first conscious memory - the feeling that I was not wanted, that I was a burden or inconvenience just by my existence, and again, that is something to be punished.

As if punishing would grind the thing down into nothing, force it to not exist.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

...I was not wanted, that I was a burden or inconvenience just by my existence, and again, that is something to be punished.

As if punishing would grind the thing down into nothing, force it to not exist.

Wow. And consider, too, what a burden and inconvenience it would be on YOU if you were to punish your son the way you often punish yourself, or arrange to have yourself punished. It's easy and effortless when you're simply helping him to get ahold of himself, right? like in a timeout or a discussion of what would work better. But punishment -- of the type you've done to yourself -- is a pain for the punisher, too.

And. Being punished actually has you feeling like something, not nothing, doesn't it? It really reminds you that you do exist, doesn't it?

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by ssandra

As an alternative for "gremlin hunting" and finding that identity level limiting belief, my husband is doing something similar but completely different in his therapy now.

According to his psych. what happens is that we learn certain habits that help us at that moment, and we keep on using them. However, those habits may work for some thing s but not for all.

As an example; he has learned to "bland" his emotions. Not to feel any emotion to strong in certain situations. This is good when it comes to certain things (like when people yell) but not so good when it comes to other things (like sex ).
So now he is not really finding out exactly where it came from, but more finding out how he can change this habit in the area's where it is not working.

For you Laks, one habit that I see over and over would be blaming yourself. I can see how that helped you in the past, but I can also see how putting the blame on yourself isn't working in the situation with your ex husband. That would be a habit that you could think about if it is useful in every interaction that you are using it in.

For you Space, one habit might be being stubborn and defensive. I can clearly see how that might help you a lot in certain area's, but when you start to be stubborn just to be stubborn, it might not be so great.

Maybe this helps as an alternative to gremlin hunting... finding out which habits have unconsciously ingrained themselves in your lifes, and thinking about if they are helpful or not.

To change any habit you could try a 30 day trial. See if you want to keep the habit in that one area or if you want to permanently change it.

This was really helpful, thank you. Stubborn and defensive? Me?! NEVER!
As far as I know, I've always been this way. When I was a kid, I'm told I would loudly proclaim my dislike for things and then be "ruined" for the rest of the time: "EE [that's what I called myself] no like sand at the beach!" And that would be it for me. I've always also been rather sensitive, which ties in with being defensive, and I have no idea when that could've started.

Don't you guys believe in, like, genetic personality traits? Stuff that's just hardwired into us? I guess biological determinism isn't a favorite among PDers. And maybe this is me being stubborn, too-- "It's just the way I am!"

Originally Posted by Angela

What would happen if you weren't?

Oh no, don't you start using those Jedi mind tricks on me, missy!

What would happen if I weren't accepted and liked? I'm pretty sure I'd say "eff you" and move on to people who did value me.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

What would happen if I weren't accepted and liked? I'm pretty sure I'd say "eff you" and move on to people who did value me.

How's that strategy working out for you?

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by Angela

How's that strategy working out for you?

Great! I have some really cool, worthwhile people in my life, now that I'm not wasting all my mental/emotional energy on people who don't vibe with me.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

Great! I have some really cool, worthwhile people in my life, now that I'm not wasting all my mental/emotional energy on people who don't vibe with me.

Excellent! Then the contrariness, the push-pull thing, the jumping on the bandwagon and jumping off with your arms folded across your chest thing -- all not a problem for you, right? If your strategy works out great, then you don't need the envy for people who have "got it all figured out," right?

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by Angela

Excellent! Then the contrariness, the push-pull thing, the jumping on the bandwagon and jumping off with your arms folded across your chest thing -- all not a problem for you, right? If your strategy works out great, then you don't need the envy for people who have "got it all figured out," right?

Hmm, well I think some of that other stuff is separate from wanting to feel liked and accepted, but you did kind of hit the nail on the head. Listening to myself and my own inner guide hasn't steered me wrong yet. It's when I start looking outside myself for answers, and think "oh God what if I'm missing something?!" is where I run into trouble. I become overwhelmed with information, opinions, suggestions (especially on here! There's so much to take in.)

The push-pull thing is kind of inevitable, I feel. Lately my strategy has been geared more towards surrender and finding solace in my faith that this, too, shall pass. And you know, things do get better. I have made incredible strides in my personal development thus far, and I don't expect it will stop. I live consciously, I decide things for myself, I have that personal power side... but I also try to remember that not everything is under my control. When I'm in the throes of an anxiety attack, I just have to wait for it to pass. It always does.

[spacecadetglow]

That said, I do wish I felt calm more than I felt restless. But I'm working on that too. This stuff takes practice, like anything else.

Luckily, the kinds of results I want mostly have to do with my physical body. Exercise, yoga, meditation all help. Once I get my root chakra in order and start feeling more grounded, everything else will flow better too, including my thoughts and my ability to self-stabilize and think clearly.

Thanks for asking, it's really affirming for me to write this all out.

I think when I delve into the psychological mind-♥♥♥♥♥ stuff, it makes my already haywire brain go into overdrive mode. I become obsessive about putting the pieces of the puzzle together. Not good. Taking a nice long shower works way better for me.

That doesn't mean I won't continue to do it, though. It's just fascinating stuff!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

The push-pull thing is kind of inevitable, I feel.

I believed that for a long time. I had it that my internal push-pull was just how things are, it's REALITY and that's just who I am. I don't anymore, since I've seen the mechanism that generates the conflict, and seen how much evitability is available just in seeing it.

When I'm in the throes of an anxiety attack, I just have to wait for it to pass. It always does.

Waiting for an anxiety attack to pass is a good strategy, and it's not the only strategy... or the one that works with the most velocity, in my experience. But it's not a bad or wrong one!

Lakshy, I'm sorry if this is going too far off-topic, but I do consider it to be very related to what you're concerned with here.

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by Angela

I believed that for a long time. I had it that my internal push-pull was just how things are, it's REALITY and that's just who I am. I don't anymore, since I've seen the mechanism that generates the conflict, and seen how much evitability is available just in seeing it.

The mechanism that generates the conflict... please, do share!

I guess I'm okay with inconsistency and being somewhat fragmented. Sometimes I wanna do this, so I do this. Sometimes I wanna do that, so I do that. To everything a season.

The conflict only exists in moments where I'm seeing a conflict, and the conflict arises from the belief in a true, coherent, core "self." Which I do not believe in. However, when experiencing the conflict becomes a pattern, something you'd rather not experience... well, ay, there's the rub.

Waiting for an anxiety attack to pass is a good strategy, and it's not the only strategy... or the one that works with the most velocity, in my experience. But it's not a bad or wrong one!

Lakshy, I'm sorry if this is going too far off-topic, but I do consider it to be very related to what you're concerned with here.

Really, you can just Jedi your way out of an anxiety attack? I haven't had one in a long time, but I get mild anxiety somewhat frequently, especially about 1-2 weeks before my period.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

The mechanism that generates the conflict... please, do share!

Well, I've shared a lot about here in the forums, but it boils down to a gremlin: a belief I started believing about myself when I was 3 years old or so, that "I am worthless." I decided that when something happened -- not a huge trauma or abusive scenario, just a small moment in my life when I felt caught between one thing and another (mom and dad) and I didn't have grown-up resources for dealing with it effectively, and so I made that decision about myself in order to cope and survive a rock and a hard place.

The decision itself was the mechanism that had me creating and recreating rocks and hard places ALL OVER my life. I was continuously generating ways of being caught between two choices, continuously trying to prove that I am not worthless and at the same time avoiding people find out that I AM worthless. Unconsciously, of course. I wasn't consciously aware that I was doing that, until I was.

And when I saw that, and I really was present to the impacts that was having on my life and the lives of others, I created a new possible way of being, one that totally transformed my life in an instant: who I am is the possibility of being Free AND Connected. Up to that point, I had had it that I could be one or the other, but not both. Being that possibility completely altered the path of my life. In a way I'm very, very grateful for.

I guess I'm okay with inconsistency and being somewhat fragmented. Sometimes I wanna do this, so I do this. Sometimes I wanna do that, so I do that. To everything a season.

The conflict only exists in moments where I'm seeing a conflict, and the conflict arises from the belief in a true, coherent, core "self." Which I do not believe in. However, when experiencing the conflict becomes a pattern, something you'd rather not experience... well, ay, there's the rub.

Yeah, I was more or less the same way. I was okay being who I was, except when I wasn't so okay.

Really, you can just Jedi your way out of an anxiety attack? I haven't had one in a long time, but I get mild anxiety somewhat frequently, especially about 1-2 weeks before my period.

Yup. I've got an appointment with a guy today to teach him that Jedi trick. Someone who gets mild anxiety kind of as a background, and once in awhile has a full blown Ack Attack. (It's not something I can describe and teach you here in a forum post, sorry.)

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

Really, you can just Jedi your way out of an anxiety attack? I haven't had one in a long time, but I get mild anxiety somewhat frequently, especially about 1-2 weeks before my period.

I can. If I remember that I can, which isn't always that evident while having an panic / anxiety attack...

But even when I have one, they used to last hours and wouldn't be over until I fell asleep from exhaustion.
My last one lasted something like 2 or 3 minutes

Since that I've felt one come up and simply decided that I didn't want it, took a few deep breaths and it was gone!!!

It is incredible the power that we humans have over ourselfs...

(oh, Angela.. you'd be happy to know that I actually killed a spider today with my foot (in a shoe, but still) for someone who was a arachnophobia just a few months ago that is AMAZING!)

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I can. If I remember that I can, which isn't always that evident while having an panic / anxiety attack...

But even when I have one, they used to last hours and wouldn't be over until I fell asleep from exhaustion.
My last one lasted something like 2 or 3 minutes

Since that I've felt one come up and simply decided that I didn't want it, took a few deep breaths and it was gone!!!

It is incredible the power that we humans have over ourselfs...

(oh, Angela.. you'd be happy to know that I actually killed a spider today with my foot (in a shoe, but still) for someone who was a arachnophobia just a few months ago that is AMAZING!)

Yeah, mine have gotten shorter and shorter over the years. I haven't had a full on panic attack in a few years, probably.

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by Angela

Well, I've shared a lot about here in the forums, but it boils down to a gremlin: a belief I started believing about myself when I was 3 years old or so, that "I am worthless." I decided that when something happened -- not a huge trauma or abusive scenario, just a small moment in my life when I felt caught between one thing and another (mom and dad) and I didn't have grown-up resources for dealing with it effectively, and so I made that decision about myself in order to cope and survive a rock and a hard place.

The decision itself was the mechanism that had me creating and recreating rocks and hard places ALL OVER my life. I was continuously generating ways of being caught between two choices, continuously trying to prove that I am not worthless and at the same time avoiding people find out that I AM worthless. Unconsciously, of course. I wasn't consciously aware that I was doing that, until I was.

And when I saw that, and I really was present to the impacts that was having on my life and the lives of others, I created a new possible way of being, one that totally transformed my life in an instant: who I am is the possibility of being Free AND Connected. Up to that point, I had had it that I could be one or the other, but not both. Being that possibility completely altered the path of my life. In a way I'm very, very grateful for.

Oh okay, so you attribute that internal conflict to something having to do with your parents. Interesting. I'm not sure where mine comes from, other than being a Pisces and duality being part of my nature.

Like I said, I don't think I'm entirely comfortable in a reality where everything is that malleable. It makes me feel overwhelmed. I believe we can take some matters into our own hands, but others are best left up to God. You're an atheist, though, so I can see how this informs our difference in approaches sometimes.

Yeah, I was more or less the same way. I was okay being who I was, except when I wasn't so okay.

Yeah. I know there are some things I'd definitely like to change about myself, but I am faithful that they will come in their own time, of their own accord, when I am ready. You may see this as passive or being at effect, but actually for me this constitutes ultimate faith in oneself. It's not as if I'm waiting for things to happen to me, necessarily, because I make no distinction between me, God, and the world's events.

Yup. I've got an appointment with a guy today to teach him that Jedi trick. Someone who gets mild anxiety kind of as a background, and once in awhile has a full blown Ack Attack. (It's not something I can describe and teach you here in a forum post, sorry.)

That's fine, I was just curious.