My son's father

[Federer]

@Eluci. I understood your all points. You are pointing everything to her inner kind woman.

Yes, lakshmi, i have seen that kind of strength within you which can give parents to your son. You're strong woman, he has already best mum on this earth and you can also be his father. Father means who helps to see this world. He will learn through your eyes and when you move away from this all, you will feel fresh air. YOU your inner kind woman doesn't deserve this all. Not at all. No.

What do you think??

[NDN Scholar]

You need to move out of town and get the hell away from him. Next time the bastard comes smashing on your door, take out a video camera and record it. Keep a notebook to keep track of all his abusive activies.

Once you feel you have enough, holler at a lawyer. In Canada, we have this thing called "legal aid" for the low-income families, like my own. You should be able to get a restraining order on him, and once the judge hears about his alcoholism and behaviour, all thoughts of child custody is out the door.

You have absolutely no responsibility for this guy. He will only serve to drag both you and your son down further from what you can both achieve. You don't think your son will understand? Of course he will; maybe not now, but he will when he's older. It's for his own good.

[elucidate]

I would encourage you also to keep a written journal with EVERY abusive interaction you have with this person...for your own sanity. Recording him either with a video camera or dictaphone is also a great idea.

I feel so helpless here. Please PLEASE get away from this guy asap...he isn't gonna change. My heart goes out to you.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

I've experienced this before. People feel helpless and want to do things to make me safe. But I really feel like there is something that I am missing. That there is a resolution of something within myself that is available through the intensity of the interaction between us, if I can just turn my head the right billionth of a degree.

But my emotions are so intense, there is SO MUCH fear there. So much of everything. It's like one of those fast food burgers where they put too much crap on there and you can't taste the real burger.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

I've experienced this before. People feel helpless and want to do things to make me safe. But I really feel like there is something that I am missing. That there is a resolution of something within myself that is available through the intensity of the interaction between us, if I can just turn my head the right billionth of a degree.

Is this part of the addiction to him, that you don't want to let go of?

Or... do you think that if you try hard enough, that you'll be able to change him?

Or do you feel that you are not good enough to deserve any better?

Or do you think that if you can change the way you communicate, you can change the way he treats you?

[Federer]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I would encourage you also to keep a written journal with EVERY abusive interaction you have with this person...for your own sanity. Recording him either with a video camera or dictaphone is also a great idea.

I feel so helpless here. Please PLEASE get away from this guy asap...he isn't gonna change.

No one is helpless here. We are helpful.

I will make a prayer to god and dear god will send something for lakshmi.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Is this part of the addiction to him, that you don't want to let go of?

Or... do you think that if you try hard enough, that you'll be able to change him?

Or do you feel that you are not good enough to deserve any better?

Or do you think that if you can change the way you communicate, you can change the way he treats you?

No, it's not about him so much as me. Regardless of whether he changes - this is an opportunity to uncover something that I am attached to within myself.

I think maybe if I can change the way I communicate I can change the way I interact with everyone.

Intellectually I know a lot of things, but the feeling isn't there yet. I don't know. I've had a lot of a ha moments. I expect I'll be aha-ing for the rest of my life.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

I've experienced this before. People feel helpless and want to do things to make me safe.

If it makes you feel any better, I don't want to do things to make you safe. You're a tough girl, and you've been through hell and back in your life. I have full faith that you're a survivor and capable of that role on your own.

I'd rather bounce ideas off you and pick your brain a bit to get you thinking.

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

But my emotions are so intense, there is SO MUCH fear there. So much of everything. It's like one of those fast food burgers where they put too much crap on there and you can't taste the real burger.

Do you even remember what the real burger tastes like?

[NDN Scholar]

You're a woman in an abusive relationship. What you feel is normal in your position, it's the main reason why women in abusive relationships don't leave. They feel drawn to their man. But you have to get out of that.

I'm not saying you should record his abuses for your own sanity. You should record them to bring them before a court of law as proof. You are being abused. Defend yourself, and your son. He doesn't deserve to fall victim to an alcoholic dad. Alcoholism does nothing but tear families apart. Trust me, I've witnessed it all, and I'm urging, no I'm begging, you to get away from him!

[carenkh]

I would put the safety and mental health of my son over anything else - and for me, that would mean getting AWAY. Normally, I advocate for a child's relationship with their father... but in this case, no.

I also believe moving away to a less good-ol-boy network area would benefit you in other ways, allowing you to get to a place where you obtain that resolution of something within yourself. You do not have to be in an abusive situation to learn this. Your child does not have to witness abuse and a stressed out mama for you to learn this.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by James81

If it makes you feel any better, I don't want to do things to make you safe. You're a tough girl, and you've been through hell and back in your life. I have full faith that you're a survivor and capable of that role on your own.

I'd rather bounce ideas off you and pick your brain a bit to get you thinking.

Rock on wit' yo' bad self!

Do you even remember what the real burger tastes like?

I don't. Maybe I've never had a real burger. It's like the matrix, where everything tastes like chicken just got programmed that way. Maybe what I think of as a burger is just my preconceived notions of what a burger should be.

Originally Posted by NDN Scholar

You're a woman in an abusive relationship. What you feel is normal in your position, it's the main reason why women in abusive relationships don't leave. They feel drawn to their man. But you have to get out of that.

Yeah, well the thing is we're not in a relationship anymore. He lives in his own place, has since the beginning of this year. I still have to interact with him to trade our child, and I end up trying in vain to help his 13 year old son pull it together.

As far as how he is with my son - he's great. More of a buddy than a disciplinarian, but I never expected that from him. They talk on the phone every day even if they don't see each other.

I don't think of him as a diabolical person. He's not emotionally sophisticated enough for that, I'm sure. More than anything he's like another child. A 6' tall 200 lbs of muscle capable of doing a lot of damage during a temper tantrum child.

I don't want to defend him, but he's not this one dimensional evil person. I just want to keep my side of the street clean and I think I'm not doing that very well right now.

[LostMyMap]

Hi LL,
Sorry you are in that position! You always have friends here at the Pain Hospital that will give you {{{{{hugs}}}}} anytime.

One thing that hit me: "But it's not even me, really, that he wants. It's this person inside of his head that he has created, and he gets angry when I behave contrary to that character. "

You know, I think we all do this. Especially with loved ones. We want them to be somebody, what we want, or what we think they really could or should be. So I think you are on to something there.

I also think the word obsession is right on. Based in control and fear. He has lost control of the situation. He had a family, with one one the way, now he doesn't. Maybe by his own doing, but that doesn't really matter to him at the moment. All his actions reek of desperate attempts to force the situation back under his control. A lot like Rei's roommate.

I don't know where you live, but that was bogus to say they could take your child because of your ex's violence. My first thought was, you need an attorney. I know they are expensive. But they are experts (if you get the right one) and advocate for you. Whereas, the police or the social workers don't really have that obligation. They are going to just follow procedure. The attorney can help make sure you are protected when you need to be, and not let the state violate your rights. Even a one hour consultation about what your rights are and what the state can or cannot do might be helpful.

I also think you need some evidence of his behaviour. Got a video recorder? Next time he spends 20 minutes beating on the door and yelling rude things, record it. He leaves a nasty voice mail? Keep it. Anything that you can later use to show evidence of what is really going on. Never tell him you are doing it. Just keep it to yourself till you need it.

I know this must be so tough for you, with your son in the middle. He loves and needs his Dad, but he is also getting exposed to that kind of behaviour that will affect him in some way.

You could always move out here to California!

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

I'm more than tempted to just stay in Jamaica when I go there to work on the farm in January...

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

I was thinking about this more while I was doing the dishes and I realized that this isn't just about my son's father.

You know the phrase "I've been around the block" - well I KEEP going around the block. I've allowed or caused myself to experience things that most sheltered young girls who were raised in the middle class would naturally shy away from or avoid. Slumming it, I called it once. There was an element of fascination with the sordid world of drug selling, taking, and trading.

You know what else? I don't want to move. I like my house, my son's friends and cousins are all here.

***** please, step off these N-U-T's. I don't want to run away. I'm not a run away kinda gal.

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

I was thinking about this more while I was doing the dishes and I realized that this isn't just about my son's father.

You know the phrase "I've been around the block" - well I KEEP going around the block. I've allowed or caused myself to experience things that most sheltered young girls who were raised in the middle class would naturally shy away from or avoid. Slumming it, I called it once. There was an element of fascination with the sordid world of drug selling, taking, and trading.

Wait, are you saying that world is where he came from?

Also, Jamaica is an awesome place! It does have a reputation though for a certain 'crop'. I'm not accusing you of anything, I guess your last two posts just connected in my mind in that way.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

You know the phrase "I've been around the block" - well I KEEP going around the block. I've allowed or caused myself to experience things that most sheltered young girls who were raised in the middle class would naturally shy away from or avoid. Slumming it, I called it once. There was an element of fascination with the sordid world of drug selling, taking, and trading.

First off... and important I think... you didn't CAUSE yourself to have certain experiences. You had experiences that were the consequences of your choices but that doesn't mean that you choice to have these experiences.

You know what else? I don't want to move. I like my house, my son's friends and cousins are all here.

***** please, step off these N-U-T's. I don't want to run away. I'm not a run away kinda gal.

Ok. I get that you don't want to run away. I understand that.

But not wanting to run away, does that mean that you always have to stay in the same place?

When does running away turn into running towards something else (like a better future?)?

What is the difference between change and running away?

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by ssandra

First off... and important I think... you didn't CAUSE yourself to have certain experiences. You had experiences that were the consequences of your choices but that doesn't mean that you choice to have these experiences.

Yeah but sometimes I think, as an adult especially, I put myself in a position to be re-victimized on so many levels, because I was trying to act it out and fix something from the past that was running in a loop inside my mind. It never got fixed because I was trying to fix something that had already happened, by trying to own it I guess. Trying to say that this was my choice, so somehow it doesn't hurt as much/

Ok. I get that you don't want to run away. I understand that.

But not wanting to run away, does that mean that you always have to stay in the same place?

You're right on, mama. I have been running this whole time, inside my mind. Running and blaming and putting the control outside of my self.

When does running away turn into running towards something else (like a better future?)?

What is the difference between change and running away?

Running away would mean moving to get away from the situation without dealing with it.

Change would mean transforming myself.

So while I might move, I don't want the reason for moving away to be my son's father's behavior. I want that to be a choice that I make for myself, not as a reaction to his choices.

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

Wait, are you saying that world is where he came from?

LOL, no. That's the world I was in before I met him. My exH went to federal prison on conspiracy charges related to drug manufacturing and distributing, he had 3 grow houses. Personally I don't have a problem with weed, but the reason I'm going to Jamaica is that I went there about 10 years ago and I loved it and wanted to run into the forest and live in a cave there.

You can't accuse me of anything, especially if I don't have an issue with it. Personally I think weed should be legal. It would reduce a lot of crime. That's another thread though. I know other people aren't down wit dat for whatever reason, that's cool too.

But we were both doing a lot of blow when we first met, that's for sure. I did way more than him. I was a 3 days on 2 days off addict. 3 days straight doing coke, pass out for 2 days, wake up, repeat ad nauseum. That wasn't my drug of choice, though. I never really had a "drug of choice" - just anything, anything at all, to excess, and in combination...that surprisingly did not destroy my liver.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

Running away would mean moving to get away from the situation without dealing with it.

Change would mean transforming myself.

So while I might move, I don't want the reason for moving away to be my son's father's behavior. I want that to be a choice that I make for myself, not as a reaction to his choices.

I think it's very wise of you to be seeing this, especially considering that the particular place you would be running away to, if you were to choose to run away without transforming yourself, would be an EXCELLENT place to recreate your old victim pattern.

By the way, I have a nephew who lives in Kingston, if you'd like to meet up with him when you get there.

[spacecadetglow]

Lakshi, I wanted to comment on something you said earlier, and something you've expressed before--that suffering is your karma. You believe that you have to endure these experiences to experience bliss, right? Yin and yang style?

There's a difference between pain and suffering. Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional.

I agree with you that we need pain in order to know bliss. But I hope you don't think that the more you suffer, the greater the payoff. That's the same mindset I was in during my last (emotionally abusive) relationship. I thought to myself "well, okay, this feels like ♥♥♥♥♥ now but you need the bad to get to the good, right?" In a way, this attitude fed the addiction.

Once I became present to my choice in the matter, I chose to dump his sorry a*ss and cut off communication. And the suffering ended. Yes, I had to deal with the pain of the breakup, but that was something else entirely from the suffering I had endured.

So, I think everyone who's posted here has valuable advice. LostMyMap's suggestion to find an attorney and get informed about your rights, take down evidence of his behavior, etc. is excellent pragmatic advice. These actions will empower you and make you feel more in control of your situation. You could also continue to do the inner transformative work that is calling to you. And remember that if you do decide to move, you would be making the decision for yourself as a way to improve your life--maybe partly because of him, but it's still your decision and you can own that if you decide it suits you. My point is, take everything that has been said into consideration, and none of it has to be mutually exclusive. There's no "right" way to handle this, you just need to handle it in whatever way you see fit at the given time.

[curiouslyrandom]

Sounds a lot like my ex: Psychotic, possibly bipolar and paranoid schizophrenic.

You can and will get past this. I can say that because I've done it. You're smart enough to find your way through it, girl. Sometimes it's the smartest ones who mire themselves so deep in the muck that they can't see a way out, but it's there. You'll find it in time.

It took me 12 years to forgive my ex for what he did to me. It came all at once, like a lightning bolt to the brain, but I did it, and felt so much calmer afterwards.

Prior to that, the only way I could deal with the nightmares was learning how to shoot a gun. Oh, and leaving the state with no forwarding address. That helped.

[ssandra]

Sometimes the only way you can get the mental peace and clarity to work on your own issues is to step out from a certain situation.

I don't think this is running away. I think this is taking care of yourself (and I think this is what you will be doing in January!).

For now, what you could do is take a long, honest and hard look at where you have been lacking in communication.

It could be (I know it was for me) that you have been judging him as not being good enough exactly as he is. Not accepting him as he is, and thereby wanting him to change, to be the person you think he should be.

When people do that, the other party even if they don't consciously realize that that is what you are doing, usually doesn't react very well...

Accepting him as he is and communicating with him like that instead of talking to the person you think he should be might help.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by Angela

I think it's very wise of you to be seeing this, especially considering that the particular place you would be running away to, if you were to choose to run away without transforming yourself, would be an EXCELLENT place to recreate your old victim pattern.

I've been doing this my whole life. It's scary to get off the ride, even if the ride was scary too. It's not even really about him. As much as I say that I played a role in his life, he plays a role in mine.

No one has to play any roles. As much as I think he controlled me, I put him in a cast of characters inside of my head and cast him as the villain. And alternately, the repentant sinner. Those are key figures emerging from the fabric of the tapestry in my head. There's also a female character, one who represents betrayal to reinforce the underlying concept of not trusting anyone ever.

It's like I've had this scene, frozen in time, painted like a fresco in my head. A big, elaborate, Hieronymus Bosch style scene, where there are images of activity made static, making it look busy. But it's a still life.

This has been a repetitive cycle. The characters have been roughly the same for quite some time, never really evolving. But I always thought that they were real. But I find them. I look for them. I'm the director of this insane piece of theater.

By the way, I have a nephew who lives in Kingston, if you'd like to meet up with him when you get there.

I'm going to be right outside of Ochos Rios, I'm not sure how far that is.

Originally Posted by ssandra

Accepting him as he is and communicating with him like that instead of talking to the person you think he should be might help.

I've been thinking about this concept a lot. Something that came to me, and comes often to my mind, is that my Dad always said diplomacy was the most important art to learn. That you could say the same thing a thousand different ways, and one way could make a man want to kill you, and another way could make him want to be your friend for life.

I didn't want that to be true. I just want to be authentic and off the cuff. There is a way to be both authentic and diplomatic, though. I should do a thirty days to tame my tongue trial.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Federer

No one is helpless here. We are helpful.

I will make a prayer to god and dear god will send something for lakshmi.

I know that no one is helpless...that's just how I felt last night for a moment

It wasn't meant as some sort of sympathy thing either. Probably just a bit of mother energy leaking out of me...but I know you're not helpless Lakshmi. Sorry if it came out that way or made you feel weak in any way? I just could feel the horror of it, that's all. I think you're a strong woman and can get you and your son out of this, definately.

[Federer]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I know that no one is helpless...that's just how I felt last night for a moment

It wasn't meant as some sort of sympathy thing either. Probably just a bit of mother energy leaking out of me...but I know you're not helpless Lakshmi. Sorry if it came out that way or made you feel weak in any way? I just could feel the horror of it, that's all. I think you're a strong woman and can get you and your son out of this, definately.

This is why i always support you all. I knew everyone was feeling angry and was saying to run away from that situation including me. I am sorry for it.

@Eluci. Any human being reads this thread first moments will be weak. But later they will be strong. I shared that because i wanted to share some awareness. If everyone started feeling weak, then it may affect on others. Mainly for lakshmi. She needs warmth care. I am supporting her.

Good morning Lakshmi. Strong woman will win and will transform her situation. Lakshmi is battling with her inner enemies and i am sure she will win over it.

[SarahDanstar]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

I've done that before. Right after my miscarriage earlier this year when he kicked me down the hallway. I called the police, but the part of the US I live in is very misogynist. Lots of good old boys who don't think there is such a thing as domestic violence, or that it's not that big a deal. It just generally doesn't get prosecuted much round here, and it's something everyone knows but doesn't discuss.

There was a department of children and families case opened (there always is when domestic violence occurs in front of children). The caseworker told me to try to handle it myself in the future, that they would likely take my son into foster care if I called for police intervention again.

Honestly, I don't rely on the police. I've never had a positive resolution come from asking them for help.



That would be better than crying, I suppose.

Im scared for you ... honestly please dont analyse his actions too much .. they're not right xx

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Last night a tiny copy of James Allen's "As a Man Thinketh" almost impaled my foot. This is normally a sign from the universe that this is a book that might help direct my investigations. I'm reading it now and have to stop myself from underlining everything.

I set my consciousness to ponder this while I slept. Maybe that could cut through the white noise of my emotions.

Reality is subjective, so there is no ultimare objective truth. There's no use debating whether what he remembered happened, or whether what I remembered actualy happened. If I stubbornly stand within my perceptions and demand that others see and experience what I see and experience, I will continue to be frustrated and disappointed. I've seen the same pattern in romantic relationships, as well as to a lesser degree in my tumultuous friendship with a woman I've known for 20 years.

I judge because there was a part of me clinging to the belief that there really is some objective reality. That my truth is the truth. Intellectually I accepted subjectivity, and I was able to use this perspective with a degree of success, but always it seemed not like I hit a wall - but that my leash was too short. I could see and feel beyond what I understood, but I couldn't experience it fully or touch it.

I thought of my inner world as an emotional landscape with hills and plains and mountains. It's all just an immense, ever changing liquid substrate, though. Like the ocean.

If I approach communication with my son's father from his perspective, I see how he has seen me, and how he has rationalized and explained his behavior, just like I have.

This does not mean that I want to partner with him again, by the way.

But I know in my heart that until I find a way to forgive, this pattern will repeat itself. Until I seek the resolution in my self of the difficulties that are merely mirrored by my external circumstances, they will pop up again and again and again.

I had opportunities, looking back, to resolve this many times, in less drastic circumstances. And I didn't. I ran. I see that so clearly now. When I complain that life had given me opportunities to exit this with dignity, I'm not talking about the relationship with my son's father. I'm talking about the relationship with old, ineffective belief systems that were familiar but damaging.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by Angela

That sounds lovely. Why not project yourself out into the future (ask your unconscious mind how far out you need to go), and looking back, what got you here? What inner resources did you use to get to this wonderful state of affairs? What kind of actions did you take? Who helped you? How did you create this?

Thinking about this, this came to me so can I bounce this off of you?

I let go of needing to tell a story, and I saw the glass between us, and that we were both interacting with reflections of ourselves for the most part, and rarely with each other.

I let go of trying to force him to be me, because he reflects part of me that I recognize as reminiscent of my self.

I'm not a wilting flower, I never was. Back in the day I was banned for life from a dirt rocker club for getting into fights with dudes. 5' tall and full of piss and vinegar, trying to be as tough as the boys because I thought it could protect me. It's a quality that I've judged within myself a lot.

I also realized, when fleshing out the cast of characters in my story to shed light on them so that I could say, hey, nice to see you, I hear you, but I'm not necessarily going to act automatically on what you have to tell me...

I seek polarization. The characters were all a positive idealization and a negative one, paired, always in some eternal struggle.

I've been creating this proving ground in my mind to define myself. I do fight everyone all the time, whether it's overtly or covertly, whether it is with the person or with a concept.

Time to take off the armor.

[SarahDanstar]

I wasnt saying its not right to analyse his actions, rather that his actions are not right .. there is no excuse and to try and find a reason in yourself is to accept this sort of behavior

however it is your life and people should make their own decisions .. i think the only way this mistake will repeat itself is if you allow it to and try and find answers within yourself .. to me the only answer is your a nice vulnerable person who for whatever reason is preyed upon by people who consciuosly or unconsciously want to get off by projecting their own insecurities and power trips off onto you

i think you are right to do some soul searching to see what it is in yourself that draws you to these types of relationships but not so much to try and justify his actions

no matter how much you search your own soul you can never find an 'acceptable' reason for someone kicking you down a hall after you have just lost a baby!

thats is all! my bit said

[Sain Outre Longfang]

Originally Posted by elucidate

That's tough, especially when he is in this delusion you mentioned , of who you are to him. I know that feeling and it can be scary and alienating, and lonely I think when someone doesn't even really see you but professes to want to be with you...not a great dynamic there.

Wish I could wave my magical wand

Do you feel trapped? That's the sense I'm getting...

They have magic wands these days called "guns".
I would suggest you pick one up and let him know about it.
Lions only respect other lions. If he thinks you are an easy target, he'll keep after it LakS. You don't have to shoot him, but let him know you would.
Or maybe a taser?
Pissing his pants would make him sober-up i'll bet.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by SarahDanstar

no matter how much you search your own soul you can never find an 'acceptable' reason for someone kicking you down a hall after you have just lost a baby!

I was angry after this miscarriage. It's my third, out of 4 pregnancies that were confirmed. It's embarrassingly easy for me to get pregnant, but embarrassingly difficult for me to carry babies to term.

When I read this I realized that I wanted to kick MYSELF down a hall after I had lost the baby.