Help needed with this pattern.

[elucidate]

I have been aware of this pattern in me for a long time now, where the males in my life...father, 2 brothers, lovers etc. are nice to me one minute and then cancel it all out by being nasty or abusive , usually emotionally, like one minute calling me names and accusing me of stuff I didn't do or letting me down in some way, not being there for me when I really need them, and then telling me I can come to them and vent or they'll listen to me, and not being able to work out why I don't! It leaves me feeling confused and with a need for consistency. It puts me off kilter when it happens, which I think is what they want? I could be paranoid though...but I've read about the way abusive people operate and it seems in line with the behaviour I have been on the receiving end of.

Not sure if I'm explaining it correctly, but it's like they are nice one minute and then cancel it out with nastiness. This has been going on for at least 15 years that I've noticed, and I'm really keen to understand it and let it go, but it just keeps coming back. I'm not sure if it's just normal...like it's an oscillation that is occuring in them which I happen to be the receiver of but it has nothing to do with me. Still, it isn't pleasant at all and I want it to change.

Someone pointed out, quite wisely today, that whenever I am surrounded by bullies, as I have attracted one currently who I am creating distance with currently, it is a reflection of the bullying of myself that is going on inside me, and I agree with this. I have known that I'm really hard on myself for years, but feel like it is hopeless to change this 'habit' at times, as it happens on a level where I can't even hear it happening to be able to stop and replace it with kinder thoughts, and so much of life is taken up by distractions like work and other things. I make some progress with it, or feel like I am, and then I'm right back where I started. I've kind of given up on it...and so it continues!

Truth is, I was very much into PD about 15 years ago, then went through all this life stuff that just spun me off course and I went on this very long-winding road downwards, and felt helpless to be able to stop it...which I know you will all say "it might have felt that way, but it wasn't...you had control over it"...it honestly didn't feel like it, and I'm very much one for taking responsability and taking the reigns. It felt like it was out of my hands and I was at the mercy of these tapes in my head...which I know that's all they are, and yet they play out with me, the main character, feeling hopeless and unable to get rid of their influence in my life.

Anyways...things are much better now, and I'm back on track with my life...but it seems like this pattern of being nice to myself one minute and then hard on myself the next is still prevalent, and is reflected in the people I draw to me in my external reality...aka the guy! It's frustrating because then what progress is actually being made...15 years later?

So I'm wondering if anyone has any helpful methods of being able to release these old patterns that are effective and permanent. Will I always fall back into being at their mercy? That isn't what I want. I'm sick of making some progress and then having it all sent back to ground zero and return to the nastiness.

I'd be very grateful...though I am in a place now where I am quite exhausted emotionally and so any more intense "gremlin hunting" isn't really what I need right now...even if those of you who are passionate about helping others remove them think it is!

[Bingjie]

There could be some soul-level restrictions that may have caused this nice-then-nasty pattern, and the tendency to attract bullies may have been due to your soul group of origination's character. I used to attract bullies myself

I think you may benefit from a Soul Realignment session, where this pattern can be cleared on soul-level, so it's much easier for you to implement the changes in your physical reality.

Do PM me if you're interested in finding out more.

I wish you all the best in liberating yourself from this, no matter which way you choose to heal yourself.

[elucidate]

I've heard of soul re-alignment, so I guess I could look a bit more into it. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Bingjie

There could be some soul-level restrictions that may have caused this nice-then-nasty pattern, and the tendency to attract bullies may have been due to your soul group of origination's character. I used to attract bullies myself

I think you may benefit from a Soul Realignment session, where this pattern can be cleared on soul-level, so it's much easier for you to implement the changes in your physical reality.

Do PM me if you're interested in finding out more.

I wish you all the best in liberating yourself from this, no matter which way you choose to heal yourself.

[Illuminatus]

"SOUL REALIGNMENT"?!?

Anyway. Back to planet Earth for a sec.

-Move out
-Learn to become more self-reliant so that other people's actions have less and less impact on your life

That's just common sense. New Age wacko ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is a luxury you can apply once you cover the common sense basics.

[elucidate]

I've always thought it was more because I allow myself to be vulnerable and bullies perceive people like me to be 'weak' and therefore easy prey. It's a distortion in their own perceptions, and I don't perceive vulnerability as a weakness at all.

Not sure if it's due to a soul alignment issue but I will look into it.

[elucidate]

Excuse me. You may want to look over what you just wrote and ask if it really applies to me. Where in my post did I mention that I live with these people or that I am lacking in self-reliance? I've lived on my own for a few years now, I am independent and I am self-reliant, so please stop dictating to me what I 'should' do according to your expertise about me!

I'm not interested in any more input from you so please stop yourself from any further posts...I won't be reading them if you do!

Originally Posted by Illuminatus

"SOUL REALIGNMENT"?!?

Anyway. Back to planet Earth for a sec.

-Move out
-Learn to become more self-reliant so that other people's actions have less and less impact on your life

That's just common sense. New Age wacko ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is a luxury you can apply once you cover the common sense basics.

[Federer]

I want to know one thing. You are saying you tried PD for 15 years. Did you ever try to know your unconscious beliefs. Of course, you can't reach to them. Not even anyone. It's tough. But your external results are coming as nastiness. may be you need to work on their hidden beliefs. May be you need to heal some inner parts to get better results. I might be wrong, just trying my best.

[elucidate]

Yes Fed, I'm aware that it is my own beliefs and negative self dialogue that is the cause behind this. I'm wanting suggestions on how to change the inner dialogue as it arises, as I have trouble catching these thoughts when they do arise...due to distractions. But thanks for your input

Originally Posted by Federer

I want to know one thing. You are saying you tried PD for 15 years. Did you ever try to know your unconscious beliefs. Of course, you can't reach to them. Not even anyone. It's tough. But your external results are coming as nastiness. may be you need to work on their hidden beliefs. May be you need to heal some inner parts to get better results. I might be wrong, just trying my best.

[Federer]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes Fed, I'm aware that it is my own beliefs and negative self dialogue that is the cause behind this. I'm wanting suggestions on how to change the inner dialogue as it arises, as I have trouble catching these thoughts when they do arise...due to distractions. But thanks for your input

Do you give them any chance when they finish being nice to you after one min. Look eluci, i read that this is continuous from many years, so may be it left scary impression on your mind. may be your mind begins to visualize that someone will bully you and you give them power. I think, remove those memories again.

[Illuminatus]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Excuse me. You may want to look over what you just wrote and ask if it really applies to me. Where in my post did I mention that I live with these people or that I am lacking in self-reliance? I've lived on my own for a few years now, I am independent and I am self-reliant, so please stop dictating to me what I 'should' do according to your expertise about me!

I didn't really read your post to be honest. Hang me for that if you will.

So if you don't live with these people, yet they are being not pleasant to you, I don't really see why you can't just accept that some people are jerks and avoid them. Stop taking **** so personally.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Illuminatus

I didn't really read your post to be honest. Hang me for that if you will.

So if you don't live with these people, yet they are being not pleasant to you, I don't really see why you can't just accept that some people are jerks and avoid them. Stop taking **** so personally.

Maybe you should READ my post first! You're right, I don't take what ANY jerk says personally, including ones on-line! You obviously have no idea what I am even talking about so please don't post here anymore.

Please do not offer any more of your input...I won't be reading it if you do!

[ZephyrusX]

IT sounds like you are saying that you attract bullies into your life because they mirror on some level the abuse you inflict upon your self. Is that right and do you find it difficult to let go of an abusive relationship because of that reason?

Having someone in your life that is only going to mirror and reinforce your own self abuse is just going to make the situation worse. Even if it means being by your self for awhile, I think it is better than being in relationships that are abusive. That way you can heal whatever issue you have with self-abuse without having someone drag you down. I’m not so sure what to do about your family, but I would personally tell ‘the guy’ (and any other guys) to take a hike and not come back if he is abusive to you.

I get what you are saying about creating an environment that mirrors our own self-abuse and limiting beliefs. I’ll do it too except in my own manner and I basically set up my own self-fulfilling prophesies. I don’t really know what to say about that one though as I haven’t quite figured it out either. I think it might involve ‘gremlin hunting’ and cognitive restructuring, but I know you explicitly asked not to discuss such things so I’ll respect that and not discuss it in any depth.

If I think of some other advise, I'll post it

[elucidate]

Thanks Zephyrus.

Yes, that is what I am talking about. And yes, I have created distance from this guy and am avoiding being in his presence. I think I have been having trouble letting go of it alltogether due to the reasons you gave. Thanks for showing me some understanding...I really needed that

I realise that I will need to do some 'gremlin hunting' I'm just not up for it right now! It seems more to do with the cognitive stuff than anything else. Thinking mean thoughts about myself, being hard on myself and that attracts these people in the first place. I just don't have the energy or emotional reserves for such an archeological dig right now...but I know it's coming.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

IT sounds like you are saying that you attract bullies into your life because they mirror on some level the abuse you inflict upon your self. Is that right and do you find it difficult to let go of an abusive relationship because of that reason?

Having someone in your life that is only going to mirror and reinforce your own self abuse is just going to make the situation worse. Even if it means being by your self for awhile, I think it is better than being in relationships that are abusive. That way you can heal whatever issue you have with self-abuse without having someone drag you down. I’m not so sure what to do about your family, but I would personally tell ‘the guy’ (and any other guys) to take a hike and not come back if he is abusive to you.

I get what you are saying about creating an environment that mirrors our own self-abuse and limiting beliefs. I’ll do it too except in my own manner and I basically set up my own self-fulfilling prophesies. I don’t really know what to say about that one though as I haven’t quite figured it out either. I think it might involve ‘gremlin hunting’ and cognitive restructuring, but I know you explicitly asked not to discuss such things so I’ll respect that and not discuss it in any depth.

If I think of some other advise, I'll post it

[Federer]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Thanks Zephyrus.

Yes, that is what I am talking about. And yes, I have created distance from this guy and am avoiding being in his presence. I think I have been having trouble letting go of it alltogether due to the reasons you gave. Thanks for showing me some understanding...I really needed that

I realise that I will need to do some 'gremlin hunting' I'm just not up for it right now! It seems more to do with the cognitive stuff than anything else. Thinking mean thoughts about myself, being hard on myself and that attracts these people in the first place.

Thanks again.

I am happy. Now no more confusion. Half way done and now we will go for solution.

[Gracestars]

lluminatus, the point is that elucidate attracts these "jerks" into her life (clearly she doesn't initially and/or completely see them as such) and is attempting to find ways to alter this. I think that is totally valid. Honourable even. Your reaction is a pretty strong one IMO. Not sure if you just have a very blunt way of communicating or if your attempting to prove a case in example. Either way, back to bloss...

Bloss, I'm not blaming you for a second here, but if you want to view this through a personal responsibility lense, how might you able to respond (internally or externally) to lluminatus - using him(/her?) as a really awesome practise tool - in a way which could create a new and different meaning for you in re to these sorts of encounters?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

lBloss, I'm not blaming you for a second here, but if you want to view this through a personal responsibility lense, how might you able to respond (internally or externally) to lluminatus (using him(/her?) as a really awesome practise tool) in a way which could create a new and different meaning for you in re to these sorts of encounters?

Not sure what you mean actually? Can you clarify some more please?

What do I need to alter in your oppinion? I mean, I asked him to please not post here anymore as I didn't find his input at all helpful or respectful.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I have been aware of this pattern in me for a long time now, where the males in my life...father, 2 brothers, lovers etc. are nice to me one minute and then cancel it all out by being nasty or abusive , usually emotionally, like one minute calling me names and accusing me of stuff I didn't do or letting me down in some way, not being there for me when I really need them, and then telling me I can come to them and vent or they'll listen to me, and not being able to work out why I don't! It leaves me feeling confused and with a need for consistency. It puts me off kilter when it happens, which I think is what they want? I could be paranoid though...but I've read about the way abusive people operate and it seems in line with the behaviour I have been on the receiving end of.

Imagine they were saying the same things and you felt wonderfully light and happy instead, perhaps because you just received a check for a million dollars or something, so at the moment you just couldn't emotionally care about something else. At that moment it would seem less interesting to change their behavior, or to learn how to work with your own reaction, because it really isn't effecting you all that much. At that moment you might also notice that their behavior has no effect on your emotions. It is only because you decided there is nothing better to do that you even get into it. But if something else captivated enough of your attention, you would be playing a different game instead.

Why do you find their behavior so fascinating? What keeps it interesting day after day for 15 years? It's like watching the same little home on the prairie rerun over and over and over and over. Has the drama pattern you see developed much over the last 15 years? If you were to explain to someone why it really is exciting, what would be the highlights? What are a few moments of revelation that demonstrate their wrongness in all its shining glory?

In some way you feel dependent on them for something before you can be happy. What do you want from them? Respect? Love? Gentleness? Understanding?

[elucidate]

Even though I didn't really ask for help in learning how to deal better with people who show me no understanding and don't even bother to give me the courtesy of reading my post before they launch a tirade of dictatorial 'help' onto me...I can see what you are saying now Grace, and I think if I were to do it differently, I would probably take more time to let the annoying mad feelings pass before responding to the person...in this case "illuminatus"!

I would still ask that he do me the courtesy of reading my post before deciding he knows what is best for me, or giving his oppinion, as though it is helpful.

[elucidate]

I'm not asking for psychoanalysis here AaronB...nor did I say I find their behaviour 'fascinating'...obviously I don't.

Can you please not ask me any more questions about this. I'm not looking to have my head shrinked...I'm looking for concrete solutions to how to let go of this pattern in me.

Originally Posted by AaronB

Imagine they were saying the same things and you felt wonderfully light and happy instead, perhaps because you just received a check for a million dollars or something, so at the moment you just couldn't emotionally care about something else. At that moment it would seem less interesting to change their behavior, or to learn how to work with your own reaction, because it really isn't effecting you all that much. At that moment you might also notice that their behavior has no effect on your emotions. It is only because you decided there is nothing better to do that you even get into it. But if something else captivated enough of your attention, you would be playing a different game instead.

Why do you find their behavior so fascinating? What keeps it interesting day after day for 15 years? It's like watching the same little home on the prairie rerun over and over and over and over. Has the drama pattern you see developed much over the last 15 years? If you were to explain to someone why it really is exciting, what would be the highlights? What are a few moments of revelation that demonstrate their wrongness in all its shining glory?

In some way you feel dependent on them for something before you can be happy. What do you want from them? Respect? Love? Gentleness? Understanding?

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Excuse me. You may want to look over what you just wrote and ask if it really applies to me. Where in my post did I mention that I live with these people or that I am lacking in self-reliance? I've lived on my own for a few years now, I am independent and I am self-reliant, so please stop dictating to me what I 'should' do according to your expertise about me!

I'm not interested in any more input from you so please stop yourself from any further posts...I won't be reading them if you do!

Your pattern that you are talking about seems to be running right here. I'm sure there is some energy you feel as you read and respond to illuminatus's posts. It probably felt very familiar. You demonstrate very well your independence and self reliance. Your expression is "I am not listening to you." Maybe there's some "I don't need you" in there too? But it is more then just "I am not listening", it is one half of a role playing game. Who responds to I am not listening to you? Most people just leave. But what if someone really did care about you? How would they handle "I'm not listening?" They're going to have to get in your face and get through your "I'm not listening" wall. They'll become a bully to you. That's their half of the role playing game.

Originally Posted by elucidate

Maybe you should READ my post first! You're right, I don't take what ANY jerk says personally, including ones on-line! You obviously have no idea what I am even talking about so please don't post here anymore.

Please do not offer any more of your input...I won't be reading it if you do!

In other words "I'm not listening!"

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Even though I didn't really ask for help in learning how to deal better with people who show me no understanding and don't even bother to give me the courtesy of reading my post before they launch a tirade of dictatorial 'help' onto me...I can see what you are saying now Grace, and I think if I were to do it differently, I would probably take more time to let the annoying mad feelings pass before responding to the person...in this case "illuminatus"!

I would still ask that he do me the courtesy of reading my post before deciding he knows what is best for me, or giving his oppinion, as though it is helpful.

This. Yes. Exactly! I totally get your need to stand up for yourself. You've been subjected to some pretty heavy crap in your life, and you've learnt over the course of it how to defend yourself. That is truly awesome. I'm wondering now though if that a) still applies the same way it once did, b) if it applies to all situations you might face, c) what it means for you that you feel you need to do this, d) are you entering into certain situations, with certain people with an expectation of being bullied or invalidated?

If I'm off here, let me know.

[butterflyeffect]

My understanding from the thread is that you are looking for unconditional love, consistency and firm boundaries and a way to vent rather than bottling things up.

So then it follows that you want to find a way to love yourself unconditionally, express your emotions without blaming yourself and allow yourself to make mistakes without the bad feelings accompanying it

Things I would suggest are journal daily. That way you can let out all your emotions and label your feelings and release it all. By journal, I'm not talking about gremlin hunting, but rather just general things, like talking about your day, whatever thoughts your having, things to get done, hopes and dreams, that sort of thing.

To love yourself, do self nurturing activities like regular manicures, massages or moisturising. Create self nurturing routines that you can follow consistently that make you feel loved and cared for. Also, another thing that was suggested to me to do is write down a list of your achievements and post it on the wall. Like when you do things that you are proud of, little things like being assertive with your boss or ordering a healthy lunch etc.

Meditate and do things like guided relaxation and body love meditations to allow you to love yourself more.

Maybe take up boxing or something to let out some of the anger you may feel. Take it all out on the boxing pads and not yourself.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

This. Yes. Exactly! I totally get your need to stand up for yourself. You've been subjected to some pretty heavy crap in your life, and you've learnt over the course of it how to defend yourself. That is truly awesome. I'm wondering now though if that a) still applies the same way it once did, b) if it applies to all situations you might face, c) what it means for you that you feel you need to do this, d) are you entering into certain situations, with certain people with an expectation of being bullied or invalidated?

If I'm off here, let me know.

I don't know if it still applies Grace. That's all I know now.

It might not apply to all situations, no. Maybe I need to learn more discernment in this area?

For me it means self-respect...not letting someone else walk all over me and tell me what they think I need...bossing me around and dominating me.

I didn't enter into this situation with any expectations of being bullied I don't think, though I was a little nervous about exposing myself, and yes, possibly attracting people who wouldn't try and understand where I was coming from, and didn't really care...such as Mr. you know who

[Federer]

Originally Posted by butterflyeffect

My understanding from the thread is that you are looking for unconditional love, consistency and firm boundaries and a way to vent rather than bottling things up.

So then it follows that you want to find a way to love yourself unconditionally, express your emotions without blaming yourself and allow yourself to make mistakes without the bad feelings accompanying it

Things I would suggest are journal daily. That way you can let out all your emotions and label your feelings and release it all.

To love yourself, do self nurturing activities like regular manicures, massages or moisturising. Create self nurturing routines that you can follow consistently that make you feel loved and cared for.

Meditate and do things like guided relaxation and body love meditations to allow you to love yourself more.

Maybe take up boxing or something to let out some of the anger you may feel. Take it all out on the boxing pads and not yourself.

Mine strong agreement. She loves herself, but just need to figure out how to let go them. She is asking this and it is very hard to replace that thing.

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I'm not asking for psychoanalysis here AaronB...nor did I say I find their behaviour 'fascinating'...obviously I don't.

Can you please not ask me any more questions about this. I'm not looking to have my head shrinked...I'm looking for concrete solutions to how to let go of this pattern in me.

There's that pushing people away thing going on again. Except that I actually do listen to you. In my life I see that pattern so often it's silly. People that constantly push others away who are "chased" by those who feel pushed away. They ALWAYS have bully problems.

[elucidate]

It's possible that on some level I have come to expect invalidation from people, as it's happened so much? Yes.

[elucidate]

Yes, this sounds about right. Thanks Butterflyeffect.

The thing that frustrates me the most is that I do do all these self-nurturing things like you suggested...and regularly. I have for over 15 years and STILL this pattern persists...which is why I am so frustrated.

Originally Posted by butterflyeffect

My understanding from the thread is that you are looking for unconditional love, consistency and firm boundaries and a way to vent rather than bottling things up.

So then it follows that you want to find a way to love yourself unconditionally, express your emotions without blaming yourself and allow yourself to make mistakes without the bad feelings accompanying it

Things I would suggest are journal daily. That way you can let out all your emotions and label your feelings and release it all.

To love yourself, do self nurturing activities like regular manicures, massages or moisturising. Create self nurturing routines that you can follow consistently that make you feel loved and cared for.

Meditate and do things like guided relaxation and body love meditations to allow you to love yourself more.

Maybe take up boxing or something to let out some of the anger you may feel. Take it all out on the boxing pads and not yourself.

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by AaronB

Your pattern that you are talking about seems to be running right here. I'm sure there is some energy you feel as you read and respond to illuminatus's posts. It probably felt very familiar. You demonstrate very well your independence and self reliance. Your expression is "I am not listening to you." Maybe there's some "I don't need you" in there too? But it is more then just "I am not listening", it is one half of a role playing game. Who responds to I am not listening to you? Most people just leave. But what if someone really did care about you? How would they handle "I'm not listening?" They're going to have to get in your face and get through your "I'm not listening" wall. They'll become a bully to you. That's their half of the role playing game.

Bloss, I know you might not have started this thread with this sort of advice in mind, but I'd urge to please not throw what aaron has just here completely. It's up to you how much you take from it, or how much is relevant to you, but he has a really interesting veiwpoint that might be worth entertaining for even just a bit.

And I say this because I care.

[James81]

Yeah, I get how you feel. My parents are pretty invalidating too. They have an image of how my life is supposed to go and anything that doesn't meet that image gets criticized. It's even getting to the point where my mom is telling me that she hopes me and my ex get back together, for the sake of the kids. (Not for the sake of my happiness, mind you, but because she thinks that's the best thing for the kids.)

I'm not complaining about it, just sharing really. I get how you feel.

[elucidate]

I'm not gonna listen to someone who can't even be bothered to read my post but feels quite at ease to dictate to me what I should do!

That feels natural to me.

Originally Posted by AaronB

Your pattern that you are talking about seems to be running right here. I'm sure there is some energy you feel as you read and respond to illuminatus's posts. It probably felt very familiar. You demonstrate very well your independence and self reliance. Your expression is "I am not listening to you." Maybe there's some "I don't need you" in there too? But it is more then just "I am not listening", it is one half of a role playing game. Who responds to I am not listening to you? Most people just leave. But what if someone really did care about you? How would they handle "I'm not listening?" They're going to have to get in your face and get through your "I'm not listening" wall. They'll become a bully to you. That's their half of the role playing game.



In other words "I'm not listening!"