Mastering mood

[VinceG]

Take a few seconds to think about your mood. Are you happy right now? Down in the dumps? Kinda neutral? I'd like to teach you guys a trick on how to master your moods.

Moods are temperamental beasts, seemingly unanswering to common sense. Do you ever find yourself questioning why you feel a certain way, when circumstances should indicate that you ought to feel better or worse? Find yourself down after a big promotion or good after a breakup?

Thing is, your mood, or general emotional state, is a cycle that goes up and down on its own and doesn't respond to external events. You'll feel exactly the same six months from now whether you get fired or you get a promotion, because the chemistry of the brain doesn't really care about externalities. It gives you the illusion of caring so you'll go out and chase them, but just for your own good.

I played a lot with my moods and I'm happy to say that I've pretty much mastered them. I maintain the same happy medium day in, day out. Stuff happens, but I'm unchanged. I can't tell you how important this mental change has been for my personal growth. I'm far more present, in the moment than I ever was before I mastered them. I can recognize patterns and overcome limitations when I'm not chained to my seat in an emotional roller-coaster.

The first step towards achieving this is to want it. A lot of people feel like their ups and downs are what makes them alive, they find meaning in it. If you're at all unsure of your desire in this area, your subconscious will defeat you every time. You will go through the exercises for a week then forget about them, and you won't know why. I stuck with it, and now I'm the proud owner of my own mind.

The first step is to get to a place of calm. Meditate for awhile until you're feeling calm and centered. Now you have to set that state. Take an easily remembered hand gesture, I took my right hand and made a closed fist over my sternum with my fingers against my chest. Attach that feeling to that state. Remember it. Meditate like that for awhile, get it really set in your subconscious.

That's the easy part. Now comes the tricky part, the part where everyone fails. The part that can take years to master.

You have to remember to do it whenever you're not feeling calm or centered.

This is difficult because that's the first thing you're going to forget to do when your emotions get heated, is that you have control over it and the power to calm yourself down. The power to look at things rationally. It's very simple. Do the hand gesture. If you have it set, you should immediately feel more calm. Keep your hand there and you'll calm down further. Before you know it you'll be centered.

Once you have the centering trick down, it's time to move on to creating joy. Centeredness isn't the only emotion you can create out of thin air. I used an open hand, palm upward on my belly, like I was holding something, to represent joy. This one takes a bit longer to bring about, because you have to center yourself before you can create joy.

I have, many times, lifted myself out of a bad mood and into a good mood simply with my gestures. Of course the gestures themselves are meaningless. It's what you're doing to your mind that's the key. It's like going to your happy place, only without all the necessary setup and meditation required. You just do the gesture, and your subconscious does the rest. Programming joy requires that you be in a joyful state, so you can remember it when you do the gesture. And it takes more faith. It's hard to believe that you can make yourself joyful. You have to suspend disbelief until your recalcitrant mind can accept the technique.

It was a happy few months when I first figured this all out. I figured, "well, what the hell do I need bad moods for," and just used the technique over and over again. It simply worked. You too, can be one of those happy-go-lucky people who never lets the world get them down. Eventually, I just stayed in the happy state and stopped needing the gestures. They started to look silly. I would just think "joy" and suddenly I'd be there. My mind has reached a new norm. Now it's just natural for me. I look at other people in their moods and wish I could lift them up too. I worked that one out too!

I'll be saving that for my next lesson, though!

[xfactor]

Sounds interesting to me, very similar to Buddhist and Zen teachings. Have you discovered this all by yourself or was there anything that helped you?

[pkomarnicki]

This is interesting, and something that I may try. I have a question for you, though. How would this work with someone who has an emotional or mood disorder, such as anxiety, bipolar, or depression? Because it seems to me to assume a degree of emotional control that people who have these disorders often don't have, and it takes more than practiced meditation to give them this control. How could they apply it?

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by xfactor

Sounds interesting to me, very similar to Buddhist and Zen teachings. Have you discovered this all by yourself or was there anything that helped you?

The idea came from NLP. I've never been exposed to more than a page or two of NLP thought, and I had a girlfriend once who was into it. I liked the idea of mental programming, but didn't like the esotericism of the school. It took a year or two after I'd first heard of NLP to think of this. I was thinking, "words really are poor tools to use to control your mind with, we respond much better to the other senses." Smell is the strongest sense in terms of bringing about memories, but gestures are quicker and easier.

Originally Posted by pkomarnicki

This is interesting, and something that I may try. I have a question for you, though. How would this work with someone who has an emotional or mood disorder, such as anxiety, bipolar, or depression? Because it seems to me to assume a degree of emotional control that people who have these disorders often don't have, and it takes more than practiced meditation to give them this control. How could they apply it?

I don't have emotional or mood disorders, and I don't have any experience coaching someone through this that has one. I've thought about it though, and my quick and dirty assessment would be that as is, the technique would not be capable of overcoming strong mental illness. It can't hurt to try, though. I'd check with your shrink first, though.

On the other hand, while on the surface the technique is aimed at altering your mood, the magic of it is that it does something altogether different to your consciousness. It puts that watcher in place over your mind. It works on your mind to separate a part of it from daily existence so that you can remember to do the technique whenever you're feeling down. That's the real benefit of the trick and it enables all kinds of further explorations. The mood thing is really just a carrot that gives you the motivation to create the watcher.

I would think that if a person with a mental disorder could create the watcher, that would be a first step towards overcoming the disorder without the need for drugs or psychology. I've heard of such things happen. Someone I know from another forum used to have major depressive disorder and bipolar which was cured instantaneously upon entering a church. I think the mind can reorganize itself so that mood disorders go away, it just needs the right circumstances. Maybe creating the watcher could lead to that.

[xfactor]

Originally Posted by VinceG

The idea came from NLP. I've never been exposed to more than a page or two of NLP thought, and I had a girlfriend once who was into it. I liked the idea of mental programming, but didn't like the esotericism of the school. It took a year or two after I'd first heard of NLP to think of this. I was thinking, "words really are poor tools to use to control your mind with, we respond much better to the other senses." Smell is the strongest sense in terms of bringing about memories, but gestures are quicker and easier.

Yes I also didn't like all the esoteric stuff in Buddhism. Took me quite a time to learn how to practically apply it - although I'm no guru by any means. However, why "program" yourself for anything?

Wouldn't it be better to just become aware and free of all the automatic thoughts and feelings rather than keeping yourself artificially on "autopilot" albeit a very good one?

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by xfactor

Yes I also didn't like all the esoteric stuff in Buddhism. Took me quite a time to learn how to practically apply it - although I'm no guru by any means. However, why "program" yourself for anything?

Wouldn't it be better to just become aware and free of all the automatic thoughts and feelings rather than keeping yourself artificially on "autopilot" albeit a very good one?

As my technique is written, you have to remember to perform the action. The action itself is a simple act of will. There's no hypnosis or programming involved. You can choose to do it or choose not do it. The tricky part is remembering to do it. Doing this naturally builds awareness. You don't have to go through the semantic gestures, just remember that you could if you wanted to.

You can't do this without constant awareness. It's simply not possible. You'll just forget, and three weeks later something will remind you of it and you'll be like, "Holy ****, I've been sleeping for three weeks." You'll realize that the way you are now is programmed autopilot. Then you'll start trying for real. And you'll fail, again. Then you'll start appreciating the benefit to mood. It's the carrot that keeps you going after the goal of awareness. That's the real struggle. By the time you achieve that, the ancillary benefit to mood will be of little consequence.

[fellow traveler]

I would just like to share another perspective with you here, and of course you can take it or leave it as you like. .... True inner peace is not a result of developing willful inner 'control'. It is a result of the Conscious integration of all of one's inner 'shadow'. .... If there is any 'effort' involved in maintaining one's inner state, ... it is not genuine.

Whenever one establishes one's 'inner state' via a willful enforcement over the darker or 'less desirable' aspects of the psyche, ... you risk unkowingly inflating the energies of the shadow aspect of the psyche over time as a result of suppressing those energies rather then allowing them to flow as they need to be expressed, ... most ideally via some form of creative or constructive vehicle of expression, which can be as simple as use of the 'active imagination' or other conscious form of expression.

IMO, it is far healthier and long term more productive to develop the capacity to 'observe' and 'allow' the shifts which unfold within you in each moment, ... than to work to control them. ... The more 'Conscious' you are able to be in your life experience, the less you will be 'at the effect' of how you feel and thus the more easily and spontaneously your inner state can and will change.

[xfactor]

Originally Posted by VinceG

As my technique is written, you have to remember to perform the action. The action itself is a simple act of will. There's no hypnosis or programming involved. You can choose to do it or choose not do it. The tricky part is remembering to do it. Doing this naturally builds awareness. You don't have to go through the semantic gestures, just remember that you could if you wanted to.

You can't do this without constant awareness. It's simply not possible. You'll just forget, and three weeks later something will remind you of it and you'll be like, "Holy ****, I've been sleeping for three weeks." You'll realize that the way you are now is programmed autopilot. Then you'll start trying for real. And you'll fail, again. Then you'll start appreciating the benefit to mood. It's the carrot that keeps you going after the goal of awareness. That's the real struggle. By the time you achieve that, the ancillary benefit to mood will be of little consequence.

Hmm, I'm not sure I follow. If you want to be aware then why chase after good mood? You could perform some other action, like doing sports for example. Also, I believe that awareness is our natural ability.

It's not that we have to build it, we just need to clear our minds to "get it back", wouldn't you agree? For me, awareness is when I realized that I don't have to do anything unless I choose to. What say you?

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by fellow traveler

I would just like to share another perspective with you here, and of course you can take it or leave it as you like. .... True inner peace is not a result of developing willful inner 'control'. It is a result of the Conscious integration of all of one's inner 'shadow'. .... If there is any 'effort' involved in maintaining one's inner state, ... it is not genuine.

Whenever one establishes one's 'inner state' via a willful enforcement over the darker or 'less desirable' aspects of the psyche, ... you risk unkowingly inflating the energies of the shadow aspect of the psyche over time as a result of suppressing those energies rather then allowing them to flow as they need to be expressed, ... most ideally via some form of creative or constructive vehicle of expression, which can be as simple as use of the 'active imagination' or other conscious form of expression.

IMO, it is far healthier and long term more productive to develop the capacity to 'observe' and 'allow' the shifts which unfold within you in each moment, ... than to work to control them. ... The more 'Conscious' you are able to be in your life experience, the less you will be 'at the effect' of how you feel and thus the more easily and spontaneously your inner state can and will change.

Your words sound very much like many of the words I've heard from new-ager's in the past. A bunch of broad concepts, very little in the way of real, honest truth. Please forgive me, but how does one go about
"developing the capacity to 'observe' and 'allow' the shifts which unfold in you in each moment?" Give me a real technique, something serious and palpable. I've given you one, and you dismissed it as "developing willful inner control." Developing awareness, that's my technique. What's yours?

What I've given is simple, easy to follow, and easy to understand. What you've said is none of that. I've grown far less patient over the years with this type of babble.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by xfactor

Hmm, I'm not sure I follow. If you want to be aware then why chase after good mood? You could perform some other action, like doing sports for example. Also, I believe that awareness is our natural ability.

Awareness is not our natural ability. I believe a dog is more aware of what goes on around us than we are. A dog knows every little thing that enters and exits its space. A dog knows what it wants and how to get it. We almost never do. A dog is aware of itself in a way we almost never are.

It's not that we have to build it, we just need to clear our minds to "get it back", wouldn't you agree? For me, awareness is when I realized that I don't have to do anything unless I choose to. What say you?

Clearing your mind in the context of a meditation exercise is fine. We need to do it, if only to figure out what it feels like. Once you figure it out in that context, you should be wanting to get back to that wonderful state, preferably forever. But if you can only do it seated and focused, then it's not really helpful, is it? For me, awareness is having the perception of a dog; always cognizant of how everything is working or not working. Only our perception isn't limited to when our next meal is coming from and where all the squirrels live or when other dogs happen to be within a hundred feet!

For me, the end state is constant focus. You could be hitting on a girl, practicing guitar, reading a book, or acting on stage, all things I do regularly, and still bring the same energy, the same fierce life, that I do to everything else. To always be present, to bring the whole of my being everyday, everytime. I never let up, not even for a single minute. This life is not to be wasted, not a single moment.

[xfactor]

Originally Posted by VinceG

For me, the end state is constant focus. You could be hitting on a girl, practicing guitar, reading a book, or acting on stage, all things I do regularly, and still bring the same energy, the same fierce life, that I do to everything else. To always be present, to bring the whole of my being everyday, everytime. I never let up, not even for a single minute. This life is not to be wasted, not a single moment.

Whoa, if you managed to achieve that - you have my respect! I'm just beginning to learn how to be in that state - and I already realized a lot about myself and my life.

By the way, I agree that the dog is no less aware than us, it's just that its thinking ability is lower. However, I believe humans have much more potential if they're willing to practice.

[fellow traveler]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Your words sound very much like many of the words I've heard from new-ager's in the past. A bunch of broad concepts, very little in the way of real, honest truth. Please forgive me, but how does one go about
"developing the capacity to 'observe' and 'allow' the shifts which unfold in you in each moment?" Give me a real technique, something serious and palpable. I've given you one, and you dismissed it as "developing willful inner control." Developing awareness, that's my technique. What's yours?

What I've given is simple, easy to follow, and easy to understand. What you've said is none of that. I've grown far less patient over the years with this type of babble.

You know, .. I went back and read through your opening post again and I see that I misunderstood what you were describing doing. ... Actually I see now that what you are doing is simply 'anchoring' in the state of 'awareness' that meditation promotes. .... I must have read through it too quickly previously and missed what you were stating. ..... It sounds good.

[fellow traveler]

VinceG -
" ...I have, many times, lifted myself out of a bad mood and into a good mood simply with my gestures. Of course the gestures themselves are meaningless. It's what you're doing to your mind that's the key. It's like going to your happy place, only without all the necessary setup and meditation required. You just do the gesture, and your subconscious does the rest. Programming joy requires that you be in a joyful state, so you can remember it when you do the gesture. And it takes more faith. It's hard to believe that you can make yourself joyful. You have to suspend disbelief until your recalcitrant mind can accept the technique.

It was a happy few months when I first figured this all out. I figured, "well, what the hell do I need bad moods for," and just used the technique over and over again. It simply worked. You too, can be one of those happy-go-lucky people who never lets the world get them down. Eventually, I just stayed in the happy state and stopped needing the gestures. They started to look silly. I would just think "joy" and suddenly I'd be there. My mind has reached a new norm. Now it's just natural for me. I look at other people in their moods and wish I could lift them up too. I worked that one out too! ..."

.... I went through it once again, .. and I still have a question about what you are proposing. ... Are you referring to by-passing the need to become aware of what unconscious material (ie; beliefs, past trauma etc), is causing one to feel the way you are in a particular moment? In the first part of what you posted you seem to infer that you are simply talking about training or programming yourself to become aware (as in meditation), all the time, and I think that is absolutely right on.... Or are you using this technique to simply by-pass the process of making the unconscious conscious?

My 'technique' is meditation and carrying the practice into the movement of everyday life. ... In the first part of what you've described here you seem to be stating that you are using this technique of yours to establish the state of awareness that you find in meditation, .. and that sounds great to me, .. but then in the latter part of your description you seem to be referring to changing the way you feel to make it other than what is. .... I'm reading this as 'avoiding' or 'going around' your pain. .... I'm hearing an NLP technique of anchoring in the good feeling you may have felt in meditation and programming yourself to feel that way when you want to, or as you state 'all the time'. .... What I'm referring to is the idea that meditation is not about 'feeling good'. .. It's about being aware of what is. ... Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding you but I'm picking up from your description that you are saying that meditation is about feeling joy all the time, and I would disagree with that.

I hope you don't take this personally, because I'm just trying to better understand what you are proposing here.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by fellow traveler

.... I went through it once again, .. and I still have a question about what you are proposing. ... Are you referring to by-passing the need to become aware of what unconscious material (ie; beliefs, past trauma etc), is causing one to feel the way you are in a particular moment?

I don't believe that psychoanalytic introspection is worthwhile while you're in the midst of the unhappiness your psychologies are causing. Fix the symptoms first then go hunting for the barriers. Of course if your issues are psychiatric, you may need a medication regime before you could even attempt to use my method.

In the first part of what you posted you seem to infer that you are simply talking about training or programming yourself to become aware (as in meditation), all the time, and I think that is absolutely right on.... Or are you using this technique to simply by-pass the process of making the unconscious conscious?

If you've ever watched The Karate Kid or any story of brash youth setting out to acquire power you'll notice they all share the same structure. It's never the acquisition of the power that causes them to grow as people. It's all the other stuff they had to do on the way. This technique is like that. You can't earn the fruits it promises without first achieving a certain awakening.

My 'technique' is meditation and carrying the practice into the movement of everyday life. ... In the first part of what you've described here you seem to be stating that you are using this technique of yours to establish the state of awareness that you find in meditation, .. and that sounds great to me, .. but then in the latter part of your description you seem to be referring to changing the way you feel to make it other than what is. .... I'm reading this as 'avoiding' or 'going around' your pain. ....

I don't believe in focusing too intently on the things that make you feel bad, because if you do so, you'll induce those states to no useful end. When you feel good, centered, ready, then you're in a position to examine your emotional triggers and evaluate possible solutions.

I'm hearing an NLP technique of anchoring in the good feeling you may have felt in meditation and programming yourself to feel that way when you want to, or as you state 'all the time'. .... What I'm referring to is the idea that meditation is not about 'feeling good'. .. It's about being aware of what is. ... Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding you but I'm picking up from your description that you are saying that meditation is about feeling joy all the time, and I would disagree with that.

Meditation is not about feeling joy all the time. My technique is. I think it's possible and even healthy to go through. I have done it myself. The thing to understand is that you're not putting yourself in an unnatural state. It might feel unnatural the first five times or so. But what you're really doing is re-norming your emotional cycle. Your emotional cycle sets the way it does as a result of deep behavioral conditioning from your childhood. It's a purely chemical thing, and everyone's different. Some people have bubbly personalities, others have taciturn ones. These personalities are difficult to change, but in my opinion, not impossible. A lot of people believe it's a long arduous journey fraught with long hours in therapy or hard-bitten meditation.

I don't believe this. You just apply the right pressures to the right parts of your consciousness. My technique does the dual purpose of both bringing to your awareness all the different states your mind goes through, and re-norming your mood.

I hope you don't take this personally, because I'm just trying to better understand what you are proposing here.

None taken. I appreciate any opportunity to better articulate my ideas to others.

[fellow traveler]

"I don't believe in focusing too intently on the things that make you feel bad, because if you do so, you'll induce those states to no useful end. When you feel good, centered, ready, then you're in a position to examine your emotional triggers and evaluate possible solutions. "

I don't advocate focusing on the things that make you feel bad either. .. I do advocate being as conscious as you can of what is happening within you, and doing so with equanimity and pure Awareness, .. not 'analysis'.

You are apparently referring to willfully changing the way you feel, .. and you are indicating that once you feel better, than you can focus on your inner blocks and figure out how to address clearing them. .... What I would ask you is how have you been doing with that latter part of the process? ... Have you made much progress with transforming your inner blocks? and how have you gone about doing that?

The reason I ask is because IMO, and from my very in depth experience, it is your pain that provides the 'grist for the mill' so to speak. ... If it were not for your pain you would not even be aware of the imbalances or blocks within you. Nor would you bring any awareness to them, ... and true inner healing or unfolding is purely a product of making that which was un-conscious ... conscious. ... The pain is a critical part of that process. .............. but perhaps I have misunderstood you here and you are not referring to alleviating your pain via the method you have proposed here.

I am not discussing 'changing' the way a person feels. .. I am referring to the absolute Transformation of the body/mind or psyche, which is the state of 'Liberation' or 'Awakening'. ... I sense that you may be referring to something more along the lines of 'reformation', .. or what the field of psychotherapy or analysis seeks to achieve. ..... There is a huge difference between the two. The science of psychology (with the exception perhaps of 'Transpersonal Psychology'), does not even know that the transcendent state that is 'Awakening' is even possible or what it is.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by fellow traveler

What I would ask you is how have you been doing with that latter part of the process? ... Have you made much progress with transforming your inner blocks? and how have you gone about doing that?

Fantastic. It works like this: The awareness I cultivated from my earlier experiment, what I went through a few years ago and what I shared with you earlier, got me to realize just how little control I had had over my thoughts. Thoughts came, thoughts went, and most of all, I realized I had a similar attention span of a goldfish. I couldn't hold on to one frame of reference for longer than a few days. Lets say I wanted to do the inner work of dispelling blocks that kept me from expressing myself socially. I'd think about my desires in that area for awhile, and eventually come to some sort of epiphany regarding it. I'd feel really great about that epiphany and think that I had solved the problem. For a few days I'd be more social. Three weeks later I had moved on to a different problem, not having followed through on the first problem. Three more weeks would go by and I'd realize that I hadn't solved the first problem. That realization wouldn't last longer than a day. Before I knew it I felt like I was stuck in a rut again.

After I went through this exercise, I built the mental framework in me to step back from that cycle and analyze it. Not only was I in better frames of mind to figure out what went wrong and what I could do to get better (hang out at the coffee shop more and engage with everybody) but I started remembering what I was trying to do for longer than a week. And when I did forget, no longer was I like, "Oh ****, I'm never going to get any better," I was like, "hmm, there seems to be more to this social thing than I thought, let's think about this more." I got better at connecting the things I'd read, and finding better things to read, and garnering insights from the random things I'd see. I had replaced the destination in my head with the road, and focused more on just doing the work.

The reason I ask is because IMO, and from my very in depth experience, it is your pain that provides the 'grist for the mill' so to speak. ... If it were not for your pain you would not even be aware of the imbalances or blocks within you. Nor would you bring any awareness to them, ... and true inner healing or unfolding is purely a product of making that which was un-conscious ... conscious. ... The pain is a critical part of that process. .............. but perhaps I have misunderstood you here and you are not referring to alleviating your pain via the method you have proposed here.

I don't agree that the emotions themselves are necessary for awareness. I think detachment leads to awareness. For primarily this reason:

Not everything is important. Emotion leads you into believing that the things behind the emotions are important. Detachment gives you the clarity of mind to reason carefully about which is more important, getting the girl back, or working on your issues with women. If you let your pain be your guide, than you will be ruled by your pain.

I've experienced heartbreak even after I've done this. Most people will tell you that nothing can make the pain go away, but the best way to deal with it is to hurt bad for as long as you have to, and to get up and soldier on as soon as you can. This became very clear to me. So what I did was I gave myself full license to indulge in my sadness. I moped fiercely for a few hours. The expression of the emotion changed its nature. After awhile I felt silly letting a girl get so much of myself wrapped around her. I laughed and got up and went to the coffee shop, flirting and having fun better than I ever had.

I would not have worked my way through heartbreak so quickly had I not gone through this and built the watching part of my mind up. The watcher I spoke of in my first post is not some abstract concept to me. I feel it clearly in my mind, like another brain I can tap at will. It watches and guides the other parts of me. It sees my inner child and listens to it carefully. When my emotions well up, it keeps a safe distance and logs all my feelings for later examining. I remember all kinds of things now that I never would have before.

I am not discussing 'changing' the way a person feels. .. I am referring to the absolute Transformation of the body/mind or psyche, which is the state of 'Liberation' or 'Awakening'. ... I sense that you may be referring to something more along the lines of 'reformation', .. or what the field of psychotherapy or analysis seeks to achieve. ..... There is a huge difference between the two. The science of psychology (with the exception perhaps of 'Transpersonal Psychology'), does not even know that the transcendent state that is 'Awakening' is even possible or what it is.

What this sounds to me like is a bunch of meaningless words. What exists is experience and the stories we build around that experience. I've grown greatly distrustful of categorical nouns that defy easy definition. When I say meditate, I mean to sit quietly and watch your thoughts. When I say awakened, I mean to suddenly come out of a sleep, either metaphorical or physical. Even my metaphorical sleep can be defined carefully in simple terms. (having great abilities but being unaware of them) Transformation is to me a simple change from one state to another. There is no total transformation. You make little improvements that years later add up to big ones. I don't attach big meanings to words, because human minds aren't really capable of communicating big meanings without lots and lots of words, which we have no time for and little patience to learn. I'm not interested in any system because systems are poor imitators of honest experience.

[fellow traveler]

"I don't agree that the emotions themselves are necessary for awareness. I think detachment leads to awareness. For primarily this reason:

Not everything is important. Emotion leads you into believing that the things behind the emotions are important. Detachment gives you the clarity of mind to reason carefully about which is more important, getting the girl back, or working on your issues with women. If you let your pain be your guide, than you will be ruled by your pain."

I am not talking about analyzing or getting involved with what one feels or expresses emotionally. .. I am simply talking about "Oberserving" and "Allowing" what is. .... I think this is what you are referring to when you refer to "detachment". You are talking about bringing Awareness to what is.

I am not saying that 'emotions' are necessary. ... What I am saying is that the experience of 'feelings', ... is a part of the experience of life. ... Observe and Allow Life to move through you, .. but do it with Awareness (what you refer to as detachment). .... The more 'Free' you become within, .. the more full and uninhibited and spontaneous your experience of what you feel will become, .. and the more rapidly any feeling that you are in conflict with will transform. ... This is what true meditation is all about. ..... "Pain" is not the problem. ... It is the unconscious resistance of pain that is the problem, .. and that is what creates 'suffering', .. which 'is' The problem. .... Pain is a part of Life. ... suffering is optional.

IMO, .. all true healing boils down to one simple thing, .. which is 'letting go'.

"I don't agree that the emotions themselves are necessary for awareness. I think detachment leads to awareness."

I never stated here that "emotions" are necessary for awareness. ... I did state that 'pain' is a part of the process that brings awareness. .... Pain and 'emotion' are two different things.

"Most people will tell you that nothing can make the pain go away, but the best way to deal with it is to hurt bad for as long as you have to, and to get up and soldier on as soon as you can. This became very clear to me. So what I did was I gave myself full license to indulge in my sadness. I moped fiercely for a few hours. The expression of the emotion changed its nature. After awhile I felt silly letting a girl get so much of myself wrapped around her. I laughed and got up and went to the coffee shop, flirting and having fun better than I ever had."

What you have described here is closer to what I was getting at above. ... You chose to allow yourself to experience what you were feeling, rather than struggle against it. ... This allowed you to move through it more quickly and easily and it very naturally transformed into something else all on it's own. ... This is more akin to the natural process of healing that I am referring to.

"There is no total transformation. You make little improvements that years later add up to big ones."

Perhaps you have not yet experienced a 'total transformation', .. but that does not mean that such an experience does not exist. .. I can tell you from direct experience that it most definitely does, .. and it is all a result of the most simple act there is, .. which is 'letting go'. .......... Such transformation manifests at the same time on all levels of one's being, .. ie; the 'physical', 'emotional', 'mental' and 'spiritual'.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by fellow traveler

I am not talking about analyzing or getting involved with what one feels or expresses emotionally. .. I am simply talking about "Oberserving" and "Allowing" what is. .... I think this is what you are referring to when you refer to "detachment". You are talking about bringing Awareness to what is.

I am not saying that 'emotions' are necessary. ... What I am saying is that the experience of 'feelings', ... is a part of the experience of life. ... Observe and Allow Life to move through you, .. but do it with Awareness (what you refer to as detachment). .... The more 'Free' you become within, .. the more full and uninhibited and spontaneous your experience of what you feel will become, .. and the more rapidly any feeling that you are in conflict with will transform. ... This is what true meditation is all about. ..... "Pain" is not the problem. ... It is the unconscious resistance of pain that is the problem, .. and that is what creates 'suffering', .. which 'is' The problem. .... Pain is a part of Life. ... suffering is optional.

IMO, .. all true healing boils down to one simple thing, .. which is 'letting go'.


I never stated here that "emotions" are necessary for awareness. ... I did state that 'pain' is a part of the process that brings awareness. .... Pain and 'emotion' are two different things.



What you have described here is closer to what I was getting at above. ... You chose to allow yourself to experience what you were feeling, rather than struggle against it. ... This allowed you to move through it more quickly and easily and it very naturally transformed into something else all on it's own. ... This is more akin to the natural process of healing that I am referring to.



Perhaps you have not yet experienced a 'total transformation', .. but that does not mean that such an experience does not exist. .. I can tell you from direct experience that it most definitely does, .. and it is all a result of the most simple act there is, .. which is 'letting go'. .......... Such transformation manifests at the same time on all levels of one's being, .. ie; the 'physical', 'emotional', 'mental' and 'spiritual'.

You seem to be trying to translate my words into your language, fitting them to your system, trying to form some kind of broader context that will allow you to do that, utilizing the style trick of capitalizing concepts to make them seem more important than they are. For the longest time, I would do just that. (except the capitalization part) I had built cathedrals of meanings and relationships inside my head that I naively took to be reality. If someone would tell me something that directly conflicted with one of my lofty ideals, well, they just weren't as smart as I am. I kept detailed journals with all of my musings and understandings in them, written in a kind of shorthand both for brevity and to throw off someone who would try to steal my valuable ideas!

A few years into my "experiment" (it had long since become simply another part of my life) I noticed that the things I was writing would cease to make sense six months hence. They looked, stupid, wrong, the products of a warped mind. It was then when I realized that all attempts to standardize a growth process were total foolishness, and that our capacity to communicate and share such ideas with others is next to nil. The problem is that consciousness is inherently subjective, and we know next to nothing about it, except what we come up with through thought experiments. Mind is an amazingly plastic device, something that can be shaped and molded and coaxed, to adapt to all manners of pressures and influences, even consciously, if only one started to look at it objectively.

That very plasticity makes it impossible for one person to communicate his state of mind to another in anything approaching a rigorous, replicable fashion. We're stuck using the social tools of primates, using easily recognized and understood signals dating millions of years back. A gentle touch on the back, loud laughter, and angry shoving, meant the same thing to a pre-language protohuman as it does now. You would better understand most relationships and people, if you took the words away and replaced them with content-empty blobs of tone like in Charlie Brown.

So, please, if we're going to have a meaningful dialogue, I would ask that you avoid speaking in a manner that requires reading three books and meditating an hour a week under someone else's tutelage. What does "Observing" mean? Is it any different from "observing?" How does one "Observe and Allow Life to move through you?" Is that any different from sitting quietly and watching your thoughts passively? What does "true healing" mean?

A lot of people use concepts which, when held up to the light and examined closely, don't have any meaning at all. My problem with new age type thought is that it seems to consist of little else!

[fellow traveler]

"Observe" and "Allow" is merely capitalized to emphasize the power of that which those terms represent in the simplicity of what they mean. ....

One might be 'aware' and yet then choose to take action towards changing what is, ... or one can be aware and choose to 'allow' what is, .. to be. .... That is the very simple distinction which I am making here. ... I am just proposing to you that it is far more effective to not act to remedy what is, ... but instead to simply observe it and allow it to be, ... because the result is that what is, .. can and will change.

You state "observe one's thoughts", .... I say observe 'everything' that is happening within you, .. physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. .. It is all the flow of life process that is moving through the consciousness that you are.

I am very open to using whatever terms make sense to you, as I am certainly not at all invested in using any particular terms to convey a certain understanding. Neither am I particularly concerned about how one develops one's level of awareness. .. I am not invested in any particular "technique". .. There are multitudes of ways of expanding one's Awareness.

What I am discussing here however is that which goes way beyond simply changing oneself, .. and changing yourself does appear to be what you are talking about. ..................
...The process I am referring to here is not one that you can control. .. It is one that you experience unfolding within you over time.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by fellow traveler

"Observe" and "Allow" is merely capitalized to emphasize the power of that which those terms represent in the simplicity of what they mean. ....

One might be 'aware' and yet then choose to take action towards changing what is, ... or one can be aware and choose to 'allow' what is, .. to be. .... That is the very simple distinction which I am making here. ... I am just proposing to you that it is far more effective to not act to remedy what is, ... but instead to simply observe it and allow it to be, ... because the result is that what is, .. can and will change.

You state "observe one's thoughts", .... I say observe 'everything' that is happening within you, .. physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. .. It is all the flow of life process that is moving through the consciousness that you are.

I am very open to using whatever terms make sense to you, as I am certainly not at all invested in using any particular terms to convey a certain understanding. Neither am I particularly concerned about how one develops one's level of awareness. .. I am not invested in any particular "technique". .. There are multitudes of ways of expanding one's Awareness.

What I am discussing here however is that which goes way beyond simply changing oneself, .. and changing yourself does appear to be what you are talking about. ..................
...The process I am referring to here is not one that you can control. .. It is one that you experience unfolding within you over time.

You are saying to just watch. Watch everything. Physicality, emotions, mentalisms, and spiritualisms. I guess if watching is your goal, you can watch all you want. I, on the other hand, want to do things with my life and to understand the subtle relationships that exist between everything. I want to experience, shape and mold the environment and the people around me, and myself as well. I want to be effective in my actions. I don't believe that just watching things allows you to understand them. You must work with them. For that you need technique. You need to put yourself in situations where you either succeed or fail based on your understanding. Just watching might give you some insights, as well as some pretty cool head trips, but is ultimately meaningless. You don't understand unless you can also do.

For example, perhaps I want to get better at persuasion, and I do. I would not get anywhere if I did not try to persuade anybody. So I try to bring people along to my ways of thinking. I'll either succeed or fail. If I succeed, then I'm doing something right. If I fail I'm doing something wrong. But I'll never get anywhere if I don't try. You seem to be arguing that we shouldn't try to do anything, but to just watch. At least, that's what your attitudes towards self-improvement lead me to think. The technique is nothing more than a set of actions to take borne out of a model. My technique for persuasion revolves around my communication style, something I've consciously worked on for years, my theories on why people even have conversations with each other, and my strategy for improving, which currently is to have conversations with people on web forums. The strategy is focused on putting myself in as many situations in as short a time as possible to succeed or fail, and taking care to learn something from each one.

I have techniques for learning guitar, relating with women, dealing with murky topics such as consciousness, finding interesting things to read, and so forth. They're not stone tablets, they're flexible instruments which I revise and tweak from time to time. I dreamt them up, and they work perfectly for my needs. The one I used to master my mood was far more successful for me than most of my techniques were, and had a far more interesting side effect, which is why I shared it here. It made many of my later developments possible.

[fellow traveler]

You are completely misunderstanding what I am communicating about here. That is alright however.

Let me ask you this. .. Do you know how to make physical pain disappear, or in specific circumstances only greatly minimized, ... using only your awareness?

[VinceG]

Physical pain typically does not concern me, I have a naturally high tolerance for it. But I've noticed that the less attention you pay to it, the less it will bother you. When my little brother inevitably gets hurt, as seven year olds are wont to do, the first thing I do is tickle him to pieces. He always tells me to stop, but he forgets his pain soon afterward. Or maybe I'll tease him a little or make funny jokes to distract him. Usually works great.

You say it is I who is misunderstanding you, but it was you who first brought your misunderstanding to this thread, and you admitted to such later on. Are you so sure it is not you who misunderstood what I was trying to say, again? Actually, while composing that post, I realized I was overreacting to something you had implied in one sentence, and had to go back and rewrite a lot of it. I thought you had completely disavowed the utility of technique, and most of what I wrote concerned itself with that. I realized I was overreacting and I went back and read your post again.

While you weren't totally dismissing the value of action, you did say that the primary concern of self-development was awareness and watching. "Observe everything which is happening within you," you intoned. I don't believe this. Watching is important, but only insofar as it helps you to act. So I left in my personal valuations of technique and action, but removed the accusations I was originally going to make. Watching is worthwhile only for as long as it helps you act and understand. You'll spend more time watching than you will acting, but you shouldn't spend a second more time than you need to. The true work of life is done with action.

[fellow traveler]

I can see this is not working. .... That is alright. ......... I'm going to leave this as is and move on.
Be Well Vince!

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by fellow traveler

I can see this is not working. .... That is alright. ......... I'm going to leave this as is and move on.
Be Well Vince!

And you as well.

[VinceG]

So, the yesterday I was feeling really lethargic. All day, I just wanted to lay down and go back to sleep. At around 2pm I decided that I needed coffee, so I started to make my way down to the coffee shop to procure some. While I was on the way there I remembered. "Whose consciousness is this? Is it mine or am I looking at somebody elses? Do I not have the ability to control my own consciousness?" Almost immediately I felt a little better, a little more alert. I realized that I wasn't feeling normal, I was below normal, and that I remembered that all it takes for me to change that was a simple decisive act of will, and that there was no real reason for my lethargy other than silly incidental reasons. (maybe I broke a sleep pattern the night before or something)

I decided that I wasn't going to feel down anymore. As I drove to the coffee shop, I focused on alertness. By the time I got there I was my normal self again, bright, eager to attack the day. I didn't need the coffee that I ordered, but I had fun ordering it anyway and chatting with the girls there, and socializing with all my buddies I know down there. I had all but forgotten about it.

It was only after I had gotten home that I realized that, five years ago, this lethargic state would have stuck with me all day. It would have infected all of my interactions and I would not have had nearly as much fun. Without control over your mood, it affects your entire life. You miss out on opportunities, fail to realize your growth potential.

There's a right way to attack life, and there's a wrong way. Control your mood so you're always doing it the right way. I do, and it's changed my life.

[SlicK]

Approximately 4 or 5 years ago I have also mastered this and I had almost an year of nothing but happiness. Bad stuff did happen too but it didn't affect me negatively. Then I have made the mistake to come back to being "normal" because I thought you aren't human if you don't have ups and downs. Well that was just dumb and people tend to believe such dumb stuff. It was hard mental work to get to that kind of discipline and control. Ability to choose your mood is POWER and it is a very good skill to have.

The way I have achieved control over my emotions was in 2 easy steps: consciously responding to negative stimuli and filtering. Whenever I was feeling that something is affecting me negatively (a situation, a person, a thought) I consciously thought about it, observed the effects and decided to block the negative emotions. It was hard at first, became easier after a while and in the end.. it just got into my reflex. I was just naturally blocking out negative stuff. I have developed some kind of subconscious filter. And it was GREAT!!!

A lot of people were impressed by my happiness and the ones that I explained to how I do it were skeptical. They either thought that I didn't have any problems or thought I was some kind of robot and it's not OK to be like that. After a while it got to me. And because my inspiration (making music) has totally left me I thought that it was due too the lack of negative emotions. It was hard to get rid of my "negative emotions filter" but I eventually succeeded. After a while.. I got into a long lasting bad depression and everything in my life went to heck.

Follow this guy's advice people, it is VERY GOOD advice. My opinion is that it is a MUST for people that study personal development.