Immature, Annoyance, Pathetic. Me.

[noitcefrep]

I am irrationally pessimistic and insecure. I can't help the thoughts, but when someone compliments me, says they enjoy my company, or any other positive thing toward me, I imagine that their thoughts are contradictory to what they actually say. They don't really mean it, and perhaps someone told them to give me a compliment out of pity, or perhaps they feel sorry for me.

People are too busy for me. Too intelligent for me. Too active for me. Whatever the case, I don't live up to their expectations and requirements.

I'd like to say this feeling is exclusive to my real life, but it's with any interaction I have. Here, in real life, or anywhere really.

Mounds thinks I'm an immature kid.
Lifetimelearner has pity for me, and just plays along.
ssandra thinks I'm an annoyance.
Jon Tore thinks I'm pathetic.
roxyruby laughs at my posts (not in a good way)
Solipsist thinks I'm a complete moron
elucidate thinks I'm an emotional crazy person

Irrational (probably) I know, but I can't help but have these feelings.

I'm not looking for people to reassure me of their actual feelings. I just wonder if anyone knows how to shift away from these thoughts. I'm diluted with these irrational insecurities, and I'd rather do without the burden.

[rei]

I've had moments where I could definitely relate to your OP.

Shifting away from thoughts like that is often about slow and steady progress. One day, just telling ourselves we're not listening to the thought anymore, the next day, doing the same. Creating positive thoughts in their place on purpose even if it feels fake. Keeping that going until it's a new pattern.

I shifted out of extreme pessimism by doing the above, though I slide into it once in awhile lately, the process itself does work.

[noitcefrep]

Originally Posted by rei

I've had moments where I could definitely relate to your OP.

Shifting away from thoughts like that is often about slow and steady progress. One day, just telling ourselves we're not listening to the thought anymore, the next day, doing the same. Creating positive thoughts in their place on purpose even if it feels fake. Keeping that going until it's a new pattern.

I shifted out of extreme pessimism by doing the above, though I slide into it once in awhile lately, the process itself does work.

I've tried this, but when I try to insert positive thoughts, I feel as though I have two minds, both conscious simultaneously and both with contradictory thoughts. One isn't necessarily more pronounced, but the pessimistic one always seems more....convincing. Perhaps the pessimistic thoughts will subside the more I try to concentrate on the positive, inserted thought.

[secrets0stolen]

Oh boy can I relate (Why do you think I was scared about putting up my picture? Remember the age thread? All kinds of crap...)
I've gotten much, much better recently. What really helped is discovering the root of the problem: my gremlin. Learning to see it for what it is, and choose to be something else. Not easy, but *really* effective.

[rei]

Originally Posted by noitcefrep

I've tried this, but when I try to insert positive thoughts, I feel as though I have two minds, both conscious simultaneously and both with contradictory thoughts. One isn't necessarily more pronounced, but the pessimistic one always seems more....convincing. Perhaps the pessimistic thoughts will subside the more I try to concentrate on the positive, inserted thought.

Yep. It is like one of those little toys with blue and yellow substances, wheels and cogs, and the stuff can be mixed up. (Don't know what they are called.)

When you start out, you're used to working on the "blue" wavelength, so as you pour more of the "yellow" into the frame, the blue is still familiar, and the yellow seems quite out-of-place. But as you continue doing it, you get used to the yellow.

Gee, that was probably the clumsiest analogy I've ever written.

[ZephyrusX]

Yah, I can relate to this. The state of our mind filters whatever information that we receive. So even when one of my professors tells me that my papers are very intelligent and already at the graduate level, I am quite capable of cutting that compliment down a notch or two (more actually). I just pass it off as ‘oh, they are just trying to make me feel good). The state of mind is of our construction, but I suppose that is obvious, isn’t? It has very little to do with ‘other’ people.

Fixing the problem ultimately requires that we are ourselves address our ‘inner problem’s, whether they be a lack of self-esteem, lack of confidence, lack of internal validation or whatever. But I agree with Rei; the process is long and there is going to be a lot of back and forth ‘swinging’ involved. You don’t just wake up one day and feel better; even when you realize exactly what your inner problem is (or ‘gremlin’ if you prefer).

For me, it helps just to accept compliments at face value and not think about them too much. Because once we start putting much thought into it or second guessing the intentions of the other person, that is where the ‘gremlins’ or self input comes in. But that is hard to do if you are still driven by inner problems.

[noitcefrep]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

Oh boy can I relate (Why do you think I was scared about putting up my picture? Remember the age thread? All kinds of crap...)
I've gotten much, much better recently. What really helped is discovering the root of the problem: my gremlin. Learning to see it for what it is, and choose to be something else. Not easy, but *really* effective.

I think I'm in the process of doing this. I didn't like the kind of life I was living, and I've recently been making changes. Changes that I believe will reinforce positive thoughts and lessen the insecure ones. Until recently I was without a social life. As in 100%, without one. I think this constant state of loneliness was reinforcing negativity and preventing any action toward change. Perhaps the addition of a social life will take my mind away from this, or perhaps it will give opportunity to an ambush of negativity each time I attempt any social advancement. I just hope it's the former.

[Angelique]

. <---- Even one little dot means a lot.


(Okay, that was super lame. But I know any compliment will just seem fake. So that was my attempt to just 'play in the sandbox' next to you.)

[noitcefrep]

Originally Posted by rei

Yep. It is like one of those little toys with blue and yellow substances, wheels and cogs, and the stuff can be mixed up. (Don't know what they are called.)

When you start out, you're used to working on the "blue" wavelength, so as you pour more of the "yellow" into the frame, the blue is still familiar, and the yellow seems quite out-of-place. But as you continue doing it, you get used to the yellow.

Gee, that was probably the clumsiest analogy I've ever written.

lol, I have no idea what game this is, but I can imagine what you're getting at I thought it was cute in a good way.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by noitcefrep

I think I'm in the process of doing this. I didn't like the kind of life I was living, and I've recently been making changes. Changes that I believe will reinforce positive thoughts and lessen the insecure ones. Until recently I was without a social life. As in 100%, without one. I think this constant state of loneliness was reinforcing negativity and preventing any action toward change. Perhaps the addition of a social life will take my mind away from this, or perhaps it will give opportunity to an ambush of negativity each time I attempt any social advancement. I just hope it's the former.

That's awesome, I can also relate to the lack of social life, but that's changing for me too. Pretty much the number one thing that helped me was any thread of mine in which Angela is a big participant.

[ZephyrusX]

(Okay, that was super lame. But I know any compliment will just seem fake. So that was my attempt to just 'play in the sandbox' next to you.)

lol - I want to play in the sandbox too! *Starts making a sand castle*

[noitcefrep]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

Yah, I can relate to this. The state of our mind filters whatever information that we receive. So even when one of my professors tells me that my papers are very intelligent and already at the graduate level, I am quite capable of cutting that compliment down a notch or two (more actually). I just pass it off as ‘oh, they are just trying to make me feel good). The state of mind is of our construction, but I suppose that is obvious, isn’t? It has very little to do with ‘other’ people.

Fixing the problem ultimately requires that we are ourselves address our ‘inner problem’s, whether they be a lack of self-esteem, lack of confidence, lack of internal validation or whatever. But I agree with Rei; the process is long and there is going to be a lot of back and forth ‘swinging’ involved. You don’t just wake up one day and feel better; even when you realize exactly what your inner problem is (or ‘gremlin’ if you prefer).

For me, it helps just to accept compliments at face value and not think about them too much. Because once we start putting much thought into it or second guessing the intentions of the other person, that is where the ‘gremlins’ or self input comes in. But that is hard to do if you are still driven by inner problems.

So apparently this probably isn't in the slightest unique to me seeing how everyone so far has suffered from it. I think next time I get a compliment, I'll just try to turn off my brain, and take it for what it is. If my mind starts wandering, a conscious effort to insert positivity to dilute the negativity will be the course of action.

It will be interesting to "see" this in action.

[noitcefrep]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

That's awesome, I can also relate to the lack of social life, but that's changing for me too. Pretty much the number one thing that helped me was any thread of mine in which Angela is a big participant.

haha, yeah I think I'm going to hang around the emotional mastery section a bit more often. A goldmine, I tell you.

[noitcefrep]

Originally Posted by angelique

. <---- even one little dot means a lot.


(okay, That was super lame. But i know any compliment will just seem fake. So that was my attempt to just 'play in the sandbox' next to you.)

*smiley face* <- because every time I try to respond with the smiley face image, it converts to , which looks nothing like a smiley face!!!

[rei]

Originally Posted by noitcefrep

lol, I have no idea what game this is, but I can imagine what you're getting at I thought it was cute in a good way.

Thank you

I was talking about one of these


...but apparently I just made up the yellow part lol

At least you could imagine what I was getting at

[noitcefrep]

Originally Posted by rei

Thank you

I was talking about one of these


...but apparently I just made up the yellow part lol

At least you could imagine what I was getting at

lol I still have no idea what that is. I guess I was neglected as a kid, didn't have the "in" toys

[rei]

Originally Posted by noitcefrep

lol I still have no idea what that is. I guess I was neglected as a kid, didn't have the "in" toys

LOL I don't think I ever owned one myself. They look like fun, though!

Heh, sorry for getting things off track here. I second the idea of taking compliments at face value, just blanking your mind out before it goes all, "They're only... blah blah...."

[Solipsist]

Noitce, I used to have similar difficulties in regards to negative thoughts. The only difference was that what you say here, I had reversed, like so--

Originally Posted by noitcefrep

Mounds thinks I'm an immature kid. Mounds is an immature kid.
Lifetimelearner has pity for me, and just plays along. I pity LTL, and so I'll just play along.
ssandra thinks I'm an annoyance. Ssandra is an annoyance.
Jon Tore thinks I'm pathetic. Jon Tore is pathetic.
roxyruby laughs at my posts (not in a good way) Roxyruby's posts are laughable (not in a good way)
Solipsist thinks I'm a complete moron. Solipsist is a complete moron.
elucidate thinks I'm an emotional crazy person. Elucidate is an emotional crazy person.

In other words, I thought of others what you think of yourself. The fact is, that you can't really know what others think of you, and what you think of others is really what you think of yourself. This is because of the Oneness principle--that others are you, in essence. Understanding this is how I was able to escape the carousel of pain.

Another major help for me was gratitude--when you look for negatives, you'll find them all; but if you can muster up some gratitude for what you already have, or for what you already are that's good, you start a chain reaction of good thoughts that works the same way the negative thoughts worked to get you where you are now. All it takes is one thing to be grateful for (and by grateful, I don't mean just saying "thanks", but feeling gratitude), and you can start to reverse the cycle of negativity.

Something else to note--do you see what I have bolded? Take a good look at these, noitce. Would you say this to those you have listed? If not, then why do you say them to yourself?

However you do it, noitce, may peace and love be with you.

[elucidate]

I just want to affirm (not that you'll believe me) that I think you are emotionally healthy for admitting that you have emotions, and allowing yourself to feel them. There are a HELL of alot of people in the world who don't do this...especially males, so, if anything, I think you're a cut above the rest.

You have to keep in mind that EVERYONE has these insecurities...including me. I've missed out on potentially great friendships because I was convinced that the people didn't like me...why would they? They kept trying to get me to accept that they liked me ALOT, but it never got past my rather sophisticated mental constructs.

Just keep in mind that whatever thoughts going on in your head that seem so real...they are JUST thoughts...and they are just in your head. In reality, you don't know what people REALLY think of you...unless you are strongly psychic...in which case...BUMMER!

I've had times when my intuition was off the wall and I was absolutely certain I could hear people in my head actually telling me that it was time I moved out because they can't stand me It was so real that I'm still convinced it was...but mostly, you don't and can't know what people are thinking, so it's probably better for your mental health, if you remember that and focus instead on the thoughts that are going on in your head, and how YOU think about YOU! Your oppinion is what is most important, right?

[noitcefrep]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

The fact is, that you can't really know what others think of you, and what you think of others is really what you think of yourself. This is because of the Oneness principle--that others are you, in essence. Understanding this is how I was able to escape the carousel of pain.

Another major help for me was gratitude...you start a chain reaction of good thoughts that works the same way the negative thoughts worked to get you where you are now...and you can start to reverse the cycle of negativity.

Something else to note--do you see what I have bolded? Take a good look at these, noitce. Would you say this to those you have listed? If not, then why do you say them to yourself?

However you do it, noitce, may peace and love be with you.

Thank you for this Solipsist, you're a very insightful person. However naive it sounds, I had never really thought about the fact that those thoughts, stemming from my mind, are thoughts that I have about myself. Or not exactly about myself, but perhaps the fear of being those things.

And I find myself to be an extremely non-judgmental person, so I would not have even considered those thoughts about other people. I suppose non-judgmental for other people. Why do I think them of myself? Agin, I suppose the fear of being it, or the gut feeling that I am it. "It" being whatever criticism I presume others to have of me.

[ar81]

Originally Posted by noitcefrep

I've tried this, but when I try to insert positive thoughts, I feel as though I have two minds, both conscious simultaneously and both with contradictory thoughts. One isn't necessarily more pronounced, but the pessimistic one always seems more....convincing. Perhaps the pessimistic thoughts will subside the more I try to concentrate on the positive, inserted thought.

Depression is a biochemical cheat of your brain that alters your thinking, your feelings and your perception. Reality is happy, but your brain is being cheated to see something different.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by noitcefrep

I am irrationally pessimistic and insecure. ... I just wonder if anyone knows how to shift away from these thoughts.

One thing you might want to consider doing is to let go of your identification with your thoughts.

It may sound like semantics until you fully try it on: you have thought thoughts in the past that were irrational or pessimistic or insecure, and you may choose to think thoughts like that again in the future -- and those thoughts are not who you are.

You have done behaviors in the past, like thinking thoughts that had you feeling bad (I have thought x, y, and z) but those behaviors are not who you are (I am x, y, and z).

If you were habitually thinking thoughts that feel good when you think them, what do you think you would be being? What would your identity be, if you were habitually thinking thoughts that feel great to you?

[Illuminatus]

Originally Posted by noitcefrep

I am irrationally pessimistic and insecure. I can't help the thoughts, but when someone compliments me, says they enjoy my company, or any other positive thing toward me, I imagine that their thoughts are contradictory to what they actually say. They don't really mean it, and perhaps someone told them to give me a compliment out of pity, or perhaps they feel sorry for me.

People are too busy for me. Too intelligent for me. Too active for me. Whatever the case, I don't live up to their expectations and requirements.

I'd like to say this feeling is exclusive to my real life, but it's with any interaction I have. Here, in real life, or anywhere really.

Mounds thinks I'm an immature kid.
Lifetimelearner has pity for me, and just plays along.
ssandra thinks I'm an annoyance.
Jon Tore thinks I'm pathetic.
roxyruby laughs at my posts (not in a good way)
Solipsist thinks I'm a complete moron
elucidate thinks I'm an emotional crazy person

Irrational (probably) I know, but I can't help but have these feelings.

I'm not looking for people to reassure me of their actual feelings. I just wonder if anyone knows how to shift away from these thoughts. I'm diluted with these irrational insecurities, and I'd rather do without the burden.

You are reliant on other people's views for the stability of your reality, whether their views are positive or negative - it's all the same to you, since it provides some grounding of what's "true" about you and your world.

To move away from this, you need to get many many self-generated reference points about yourself and about the world. These come from behaving autonomously in spite of what others expect of you (or what you perceive them to expect of you).

Things that helped me were 1) travelling to foreign countries, 2) seducing many women, and 3) talking to many many different types of people, e.g. homeless people (learning their story) and others I previously had few autonomous reference points about. The point is that you build a reality for yourself independent of other people's reference points. In this way your world becomes much more of your own creation and others' viewpoints are profoundly downgraded in importance - in fact the only opinion I really value now is my own, since I know myself and my world so well. Others' opinions of me, whether positive or negative, hold very little interest for me - insults bounce off, and so do compliments.

If you accept compliments in a serious way, you have to accept the idea that you will also take criticism in a serious way. The goal is to have neither affect you by basing your worldview on your own reference points.