I can feel a depression coming on.

[ascetic]

Hey Gracestars, I hope you do go out and have a fun "girly night." One of the best things you can do is resist the natural impulse to "retreat" and conserve energy.

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by Angela

Shame is what the person on the receiving end of blame gets to feel. Whoever's fault it is for the mistake, that's who's turn it is to feel ashamed.

When you blame someone, the whole point of the blame is to let that person know it's her turn. She's supposed to feel shame! As if shame is the only thing that keeps people from making mistakes or acting badly - the fine line between civilization and chaos.

And is it the truth that someone has to be to blame or at fault? Can you know for sure that someone has to be at blame or at fault?

What if there was no blame, and it's no one's fault -- What if there's just some learning to get for you? What if you could use those learnings to protect you from making that same mistake in the future, so that you wouldn't need to feel bad to accomplish that task?

If I were to come to you telling you I'd made a mistake and I feel awful about it, would you tell me it's my fault and I'm to blame for it? Or would you gently and lovingly help guide me to get the learnings in the situation that would most benefit me and be for the highest good of all -- and encourage me to let go of any self-blame I might be doing?

Reading over this post again, Angela, the word "fault" keeps popping out of the page. Earlier this evening I wrote that my core limiting belief might be "I am faulty" and here is that word exclaiming itself to me in your writing.

You're right, what if there is no blame, only learning?

As yet, no-one has outright blamed me for anything, other than of course my friend in her angry state on the night in question. Her relative silence since feels like blame, but that's probably my monkey mind talking again -- I can't assume anything about her until I have spoken to her, given it more time. I'm doing the blaming. I have found me at fault, because maybe I believe that beneath the "good" me - the charming, nice, fun me - I am faulty, at the core.

Faulty.
At Fault.
My Fault.

If you were to come to me as you suggested, I would thank you and appreciate you for your acknowledgment and your honesty, and I would hug you. I would remind you that we all make mistakes, and I would encourage you to let it go. I would forgive you, even if on behalf of you to lift the burden.

I am afraid that others aren't always so forgiving, so understanding. I'm afraid others have their own investments in placing blame. Does this make me sound untrusting of people? I don't mean it to. Again, I've been there before I guess... But I realise not everyone is like this either, because that has been my experience too.

I realise that the latter part of your post was probably not about forgiveness from other people, but from myself. And I know this is where it really counts in the long run. I know I need to learn from it and let it go. No-one else can do it for me.

Oh, and to answer your question directly... "what if...?" Well, my answer is it would be wonderful. No blame, only learning. I wish the world worked more like that. Somehow I bet yours does...

[James81]

At fault...faulty...deserving punishment...feelings of abandonment...forgiveness for yourself...

What do all these things mean about yourself?

Another way to go about it would be to say...."I am faulty and that means I am ___"

[Vand]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

I haven't been in this place for a while,

But I can feel a depression coming on...

I really don't want to go there and I know that it is up to me stop it, but I'm really struggling with it.

I'm not eating, I'm oversleeping, and I didn't make it to work today.

I know can't let things undo themselves because that will make it worse, and I know that writing here is probably giving more power to it, but I'm not sure where else to turn right now. I feel really alone with it.

If anyone has been here before, has anything to offer in the way of hope, I would be most grateful to hear it.

With love,

G. xx

Gracestars, few want to look here and everyone seems to want to look at every solution and remedy and fix other then this but look at your integrity.

Without integrity nothing works.

And there is little use talking to avatars on message boards. Internet "dialogues" are really more monologues disguised as dialogues if the truth was told and have almost no value in the real world or in your real life as far as I can tell. It is much riskier to talk to people in the flesh. AND it makes a lasting difference. Having lots and lots of real conversations with real off line people will create more space fo you to be.

I know that is not a popular point of view but there it is.

[Gracestars]

Cloud,

You're right. I don't suck, and I do know that. The bad feelings have so much power though, or I give them that. I could list my positive qualities now, I haven't lost sight of those, but the "negative" ones seem so amazingly abnormal, and awful, and faulty that they take over in my mind's eye.

I can see how stupid though that is after writing it. I know need to accept the less favourable qualities as a part of me and stop trying to rid them - I don't believe that is the way to peace - there is another route, I'm trying to find the lighthouse to direct me there. It's slowly coming forth in this thread, and from the assistance of the good folk who have contributed to it.

PTV,

Good to see you. I've missed you. All good advice, I'll be doing much of it, thank you. Speak soon. xo

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by Vand

Gracestars, few want to look here and everyone seems to want to look at every solution and remedy and fix other then this but look at your integrity.

Without integrity nothing works.

And there is little use talking to avatars on message boards. Internet "dialogues" are really more monologues disguised as dialogues if the truth was told and have almost no value in the real world or in your real life as far as I can tell. It is much riskier to talk to people in the flesh. AND it makes a lasting difference. Having lots and lots of real conversations with real off line people will create more space fo you to be.

I know that is not a popular point of view but there it is.

Way to bring it down, and crash the party dude.

You're entitled to your opinion, but to be honest in return, reading this right now has been very unhelpful, and I also think you are wrong.

My motivations for writing here are my own, and if I find it of use, it should be of no concern to you to discourage me from doing so.

And I wonder why you are here yourself if you do not understand it. But please don't answer that here, use another thread for that.

I have more than enough flesh to converse with. I do it all day long in my personal and professional lives. I couldn't stuff anymore real life people into my day without it overflowing into next year.

Here is me-time and my-time.

This is as much journalling as it is support and advice seeking, and the monologues I receive in return suit me just fine.

I am now choosing to forget you interrupted the flow of this thread.

[James81]

Gracestars,

Remember a while back when I came into a thread referred to you in the third person? We sure had a knock-down, drag out about that. It seemed like that activated something in you.....I wonder if you'd like to explore that a little bit.

I think there was something about being rude/mannerly in that convo. There's some stuff you can explore because it's the stuff that makes us go batsh1t wacky doodle that activates our deepest indentity level beliefs about ourselves.

Also, I'd encourage you to look at your reactions and phrase them sort of like I said above...

"I do/feel/think ___ and that means I am ___"

[Andrew Brunelle]

Depression is something that I think most of us deal with at some time or another. I know I have in the past and will probably have a bout of it or two in the future. I've heard studies that antidepressants don't work quite as well as they say they work. But I have heard that exercise is a remedy as good as any other for depression and apathy/lack of motivation.

Keeping busy and having friends is yet another thing that can keep your depression at bay. I'm sure there are health changes you can make as well. Are the foods you are eating causing a deficiency or just not good for a positive mood? Then there's EFT you could try and other emotional techniques. There are so many ways to try to get out of a depression. I think the most important thing is you have to start feeling good about your life. Best of luck to you and your time of trouble.

[Gracestars]

Actually, Vand, I find it interesting that this is your first post, and out of all the threads you chose mine to write a discouraging one.

Care to share who you are, and why you are really here?

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by James81

Gracestars,

Remember a while back when I came into a thread referred to you in the third person? We sure had a knock-down, drag out about that. It seemed like that activated something in you.....I wonder if you'd like to explore that a little bit.

I think there was something about being rude/mannerly in that convo. There's some stuff you can explore because it's the stuff that makes us go batsh1t wacky doodle that activates our deepest indentity level beliefs about ourselves.

Also, I'd encourage you to look at your reactions and phrase them sort of like I said above...

"I do/feel/think ___ and that means I am ___"

My "I am....." feels like "I am faulty." That feels like the core of it. I'm not sure if you are getting at something else here that I am missing.

I'd like to address the rest of your post too, but to be honest, my friend Vand here has thrown me off course.

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

Depression is something that I think most of us deal with at some time or another. I know I have in the past and will probably have a bout of it or two in the future. I've heard studies that antidepressants don't work quite as well as they say they work. But I have heard that exercise is a remedy as good as any other for depression and apathy/lack of motivation.

Keeping busy and having friends is yet another thing that can keep your depression at bay. I'm sure there are health changes you can make as well. Are the foods you are eating causing a deficiency or just not good for a positive mood? Then there's EFT you could try and other emotional techniques. There are so many ways to try to get out of a depression. I think the most important thing is you have to start feeling good about your life. Best of luck to you and your time of trouble.

Thanks Andrew. All good suggestions and ones I have used in the past. This is a situational trigger, so I won't be heading down into the AD route just now, I haven't been low enough for long enough. My diet is very good, besides the lack of food going in at present. I have a lot of friends (yes, real breathing, touchable, friends ), so all good there too. I'm feeling more like I need to withdraw and recharge. In fact, the last month has been jam packed with social stuff, and my alone time is important. I feel I'm needing more of that, as I've been neglecting it of late. That, and ways to weed this thing out, and release the guilt. That's what I feel I need. Thank you though.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

My "I am....." feels like "I am faulty." That feels like the core of it. I'm not sure if you are getting at something else here that I am missing.

I'd like to address the rest of your post too, but to be honest, my friend Vand here has thrown me off course.

Heh, well I'm not adept at all the possibilities of what core beliefs can be, but I keep thinking about the idea that it would be something that a kid would say and I was just wondering if "faulty" is something a kid would say or not. Maybe Angela can weigh in on that one.

But in the meantime, maybe you might be willing to explore why Vand has thrown you off course. That feeling of being derailed might hold more clues about yourself.

[Gracestars]

hmmm... these are Tanja's quotes:

You also say you've been there before, how did you get out of it then? What did you do?

I'm glad you asked this. Recovering from my depression was one of the hardest things I've ever done and one of my greatest achievements. Anti-depressants helped get my brain back in order while I was able to do the work, but there was work. I did it mainly myself. I read and read and read. I counted my blessings. I got spiritual. I had healings, and readings. I meditated, and practiced yoga. I dug deep. I got better. And I promised myself I would never get that bad again.

And even thought it has happened, you dealt with it, you're here...
Another thing that crossed my mind with respect to loss and all, is there a difference between ''ending'' a friendship, or someone simply ''drifting'' away from your life (as it happens to all of us) based on how it comes about, do you need a ''closure'',''clearing the air'' and the need to tell your side of the story so even though it ends ''badly'' you accept it more easily?

You're right, there is a difference. The air hasn't yet been cleared. I think she is waiting for me to call her. I haven't felt up to it just yet, or maybe I haven't gown the ovaries to make the call. I'm scared of more hurt and where that might lead me... further down. It'll happen though, the coin will flip, and I'll find out which way I'll land.

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by James81

Heh, well I'm not adept at all the possibilities of what core beliefs can be, but I keep thinking about the idea that it would be something that a kid would say and I was just wondering if "faulty" is something a kid would say or not. Maybe Angela can weigh in on that one.

But in the meantime, maybe you might be willing to explore why Vand has thrown you off course. That feeling of being derailed might hold more clues about yourself.

He threw me off course, because he interrupted a flow which I was finding useful and because he took issue with my way of dealing. I also found it strange that he was commenting on my post in such a way for his first contribution to the forums.

Meh. I'm over it.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

Reading over this post again, Angela, the word "fault" keeps popping out of the page. Earlier this evening I wrote that my core limiting belief might be "I am faulty" and here is that word exclaiming itself to me in your writing.
...
I realise that the latter part of your post was probably not about forgiveness from other people, but from myself....

Oh, and to answer your question directly... "what if...?" Well, my answer is it would be wonderful. No blame, only learning. I wish the world worked more like that. Somehow I bet yours does...

Forgiveness feels a little difficult, doesn't it, when it's someone's fault. That's a problem with the belief that someone is at fault -- it gets programmed in at an identity level, something you believe is true about the person. It becomes part of who the person is, in your reality. And that goes for yourself, too.

I don't know if this is so for you, but one of the identity-level limiting beliefs I've commonly come across is "It's all my fault." It's one of the rare ones that doesn't start with "I am ___", and that's because it's the way a little kid says to herself, "I am to blame."

And of course, in that little girl's head, her unconscious mind generalizes it out -- it's ALL her fault. Like, everything. It doesn't make sense in your grown-up, figuring it out conscious mind; it just lives as a program that your little-girl self programmed in (whatever the program was) when something happened that was just too much for her baby resources to be able to effectively handle. To cope with what happened and survive it, and to protect herself going forward, she took on the belief about herself as a talisman, a protection, a positive purpose. In the meanwhile, you've developed more appropriate, grown-up resources, but the initiating program continues to run at a deeply unconscious level. You're faulty, or it's all your fault, or whatever it was you decided when you very small.

Can you see how someone coming along and saying, "Look at your integrity" could powerfully reactivate that old thought in that little girl's head? It does sound like you were already pummeling yourself about the issue of your integrity, and here comes this brand new member, like an Angel out of the Darkness, to kindly be in your face about that very thing. Your Mirror Buddy! It's funny how angels like this show up when you start looking at this stuff. If you want to, you might even actually find a way to be grateful to him -- and then you'll really laugh!

Is that old belief "I am faulty" or is it slightly different? Take a look -- they can be slippery little suckers, but when you nail it, it'll really just click in and feel tremendously familiar. Then take a look around at your life and see how prevalent it is -- all the myriad ways it has been running you ever since you were tiny. All the choices that you've made trying to prove it's not true and also trying to avoid people finding out that it is true. It may knock your socks off to see how powerfully that thought in a little girl's head has been running your life.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

He threw me off course, because he interrupted a flow which I was finding useful and because he took issue with my way of dealing. I also found it strange that he was commenting on my post in such a way for his first contribution to the forums.

I don't even know what Vand meant by integrity. I think Vand was trying to be helpful, rather than trying to criticize you.

[Angela]

...and of course, one of the ways we try to prove our identity-level limiting beliefs are not true, and at the same time try to keep others from finding out that they ARE true, is to project them out onto others. Do you find yourself believing different versions of "(s)he is faulty" or "it's his/her/your fault"? Your unconscious mind doesn't make the distinction between them and you when you decide that about a person -- it thinks you're talking about you, and it strengthens the gremlin.

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

I don't even know what Vand meant by integrity. I think Vand was trying to be helpful, rather than trying to criticize you.

I'm not sure either. Weird. Meh.

[Gracestars]

Angela, this is good...thank you...

talk to me more about this, if you may;

Originally Posted by Angela

Can you see how someone coming along and saying, "Look at your integrity" could powerfully reactivate that old thought in that little girl's head? It does sound like you were already pummeling yourself about the issue of your integrity, and here comes this brand new member, like an Angel out of the Darkness, to kindly be in your face about that very thing. Your Mirror Buddy! It's funny how angels like this show up when you start looking at this stuff. If you want to, you might even actually find a way to be grateful to him -- and then you'll really laugh!

So he is in my face about my integrity. He is judging it, or let's say he is for argument's sake... what exactly am I grateful for and why is it happening?

I mean.... what am I to do with it? How am I to intergrate it? Or how am I to free myself from it?

This is interesting in itself, because I have one friend in particular who likes to do this, out of context and without cause, often in public in the guise of a joke. And it hurts no end.

You say that this happens when one starts looking at this stuff. In re to my friend, she has been doing this lately when I have been doing great... so I haven't exactly been looking at it. It all feels like some great test... can I hack it when I'm looking at it, is it still there when I'm not looking at it.

Gosh, it's so funny. I really have been so super bloody content of late. Really in a good place. It amazes me how that can all come crashing down over one incident. My gremlins run deep.....

[rei]

Gracestars, I lived in a depressive fog from age 8 to age, oh, 16 or so. It was interrupted by first more intense depression as a side effect of mono, then my first manic episode (thanks to the incompetent psychiatrist for not giving me the proper cocktail). I think many people around here can relate And yes, there is a difference between "clinical" levels and just sorting through things, I think. Sorting through things is probably much easier to manage and explore to the light side again.

You can get through this. Have you tried ho'oponopono? I have found it a very effective way to create greater self-forgiveness (it sounds like forgiving yourself is what the current situation boils down to, in terms of the Now and not how the past influences your perception of the Now).

You have incredible self-awareness! I, for one, hope you may use it to cut yourself some slack

(I can relate, as well, to the social focus. I create feeling fulfilled within myself but I also enjoy how easy it is to feel even better when things are going well in my social experience. I used a process to release abandonment issues and I've noticed now I'm not really running those tapes anymore, so it's more comfortable for me to keep my positive state when people do their own thing.)

Oh, and major props to you for your courage, your honesty, your boldness in sharing here - you're absolutely awesome! I hope you will flow into a satisfying resolution for the place you find yourself in right now

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

Gosh, it's so funny. I really have been so super bloody content of late. Really in a good place. It amazes me how that can all come crashing down over one incident. My gremlins run deep.....

Or a different perspective:

I've been doing super great lately, I've been in a great place. This has build up my inner strength and resources to finally and once and for all, take a good deep look inside me and deal with issues so they are not issues anymore!

I know that I am strong enough, I know that I am capable. I now also knows that a good place feels like, and it will be great to be there, regardless of what other people say or do or think!

[Tanja]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

So he is in my face about my integrity. He is judging it, or let's say he is for argument's sake... what exactly am I grateful for and why is it happening?
I mean.... what am I to do with it? How am I to intergrate it? Or how am I to free myself from it?

I understood her post as saying his comment about your integrity upset you because in a way you have been questioning/judging your integrity yourself...this is I guess where the part of ''its all my fault'' could come in...but I could be wrong....

Originally Posted by Gracestars

I counted my blessings. I got spiritual. I had healings, and readings. I meditated, and practiced yoga. I dug deep. I got better.

Don't forget this part. You have what it takes and know how to get out of it...so that's what you'll do again.

[elucidate]

Hey Gracestars,
I definately relate to what you are going through. Have dragged myself out of clinical and non-clinical depression for over 15 years now...only started to come good in the last two or three...I'm weening off meds now though I put off going on them for the first 10 yrs and suffered unnecessarily for my stubborness
Of course it's good if you can find people IRL to be able to talk about this stuff to, but the reality is it is extremely hard to find people who will help to create a safe enough space to be able to release it and express. I've found myself making progress with journalling and art therapy only to regress back to previously dysfunctional ways of bottling emotions...especially anger, which was a BIG no-no in my family. I still have trouble with anger at times, even though I punch pillows, scream into pillows and take a foam batt to (you guessed it) my pillows (poor, poor pillows), it still manages to leak out in ways that I would prefer it didn't...and cause people to not want to talk to me
I think it's very brave that you took the risk here, and I doubt anyone would judge you or hate you for it. I am inspired by you, and hopefully it will help me to start opening up more as well, cos I've really needed to for years, but haven't been able to trust anyone enough to.

Bottom line is, you're such an awesome person. I struggle with the same thing to do with Self-flagelation...I've quit cigarettes, drinking and drugs...but beating myself up is the hardest habit to break I've found. I have no idea where to start, though I think it helps to be able to catch ourselves when we start punishing ourselves, and consciously change the neg self-dialogue...like "well, hang on, I'm really not that bad...I've got some pretty good things about me...(and then list those good things) and even if I made this mistake, it's o.k cos I'm not perfect and I'm not supposed to be...I can still love myself and learn from this mistake...which is what the point of making mistakes is...to learn from them. If I didn't make so many I'd have nothing to learn...and I'd be bored"
You see where I'm going with this. The hardest part is actually catching yourself thinking poorly about yourself and turn the tide...starting a new habit of speaking kindly to yourself. This is my conclusion anyhoo.

Hope it helps, and I really hope you feel better soon. Lots and lots of Love

[Angela]

I don't mean to say that you have to or should be grateful, just that you may find gratitude is more and more available to you for the people who reactivate you, as you look more and more boldly at how a thought in a little girl's head has been making your choices for you.

What there is to do about it is: just begin to notice how prevalent that old child-thought is. Notice, when you get reactivated, what it is that's getting reactivated. Someone says or does something, and notice what you make it mean about yourself. Notice when and where you think thoughts have you feeling that old familiar feeling of being faulty or it's all my fault. (or, conversely, THEY are faulty or it's all THEIR fault, which amounts to the same feeling).

If you weren't believing that meaning were true, you would just shrug and let it go -- it's when someone says something that resonates with your gremlin, and has you trying to prove it's not true, or trying to avoid someone finding out that it IS true -- that you know you're on to something. What you're on to is the opportunity to disconnect an old habitual negative thought pattern -- and that's what there is to be grateful for when someone pushes your buttons. They're just showing you where exactly you have the opportunity. It's like when the doctor pokes your belly and asks, "is this where it hurts?" and you say, "YOOWWWW YES, that's where it hurts, you bastard, cut it out!" That's where you need an gremlinectomy. And then later, when you're on the healed up, you go, "Thanks, doctor!"

It's amazing, but just shining the light of awareness can begin to set you free from the constraints those old beliefs used to be for you.

[Honeywith4bees]

Hi Gracestars,

You are getting such amazing support from so many people here, but I just wanted to weigh in my support.

I can relate to the feeling of falling back into "the dark place" and how bad that feels, but I am also sure that due to your courageous inquisitiveness, you will be shining brighter than ever in no time!

Lots of loving energy being sent your way right now

[Plays With Life]

*pours a bucket of love all over Gracestars*

*pours a bucket of love all over the icky feelings*

Maybe the icky feelings just want some love, too.

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

Cloud,I could list my positive qualities now, I haven't lost sight of those, but the "negative" ones seem so amazingly abnormal, and awful, and faulty that they take over in my mind's eye.

You already know you have positive qualities. You don't need them listed out. They don't have anything to do with what you're feeling, anyways. Like I said, your problem is that you're trying to use a barometer to tell you the temperature. You know you have positive qualities, and you have absolutely no need for your feelings to tell you that.

You just need to disconnect these feelings from those thoughts. Right now, you have feelings uselessly wired into thoughts that they have nothing to do with, and so you think that negative feelings mean negative things about you, and positive feelings mean positive things about you. This is not true. Positive and negative feelings have very little to do with positive and negative qualities.

When you disconnect them, you'll be able to think negative words about yourself without the negative feelings. You will also be able to feel positive feelings without positive words to back them up. It would be so much easier to be happy, as you want to be, without having to always think of reasons for it.

Is there any good reason why bad feelings should be used as your measure of self worth, when you already obviously have an entirely different measurement formed independent of those feelings? You don't need two different measurements, and you sure don't need to use one that you know is wrong.

[carenkh]

Gracestars - I, too, can relate to where you are! I'm having trouble lately communicating by writing, so I'll borrow the words of Christine Kane, from a post she wrote about self-sabotage:

...what it might be there to teach you is persistence. Persistence is key here. You can either sit back and say, “Look how awful I am. I’ve done it again.” Or you can say, “I’m learning to let go of the need to do this. So, today is another day. And with eyes wide open, I begin again.” It can be painful. It can be uncomfortable. It can piss you off. And it will grow you in ways you can’t imagine.

[Piercetheveil]

Again, cool that you were aware before you got further along. I am not sure you get how huge it is.

I was clinically depressed (rather had episodes/relapses) from the time I was in 4th grade (they did not think children could be clinical back then) until I was in my early 30's.

I have not relapsed back into it. I have touched the edge but never to go back. I now understand and embrace deep sadness and actually in an odd way find enjoyment during it. That, of course, is different than depression even non-clinical.

Saying this to let you know that if there is hope in extreme cases there is certainly hope with you.

Besides, you are a bit of a brighter person than I am. So, there is that. ;P

Grass on feet has been quite the therapy for me as of late. a few miles every weekend rules. Daily when I feel the fog.

I use to correct my thinking with CBT (still do when my brain is stubborn) but the last year I give myself permission to not listen to my thinking and get solely into sensory mode and practice constant mindfulness. Only doing what I am doing or being where I am. Hard to continue to slide down the slope when your mind does not run crazy.

The key for me is the meditation practice I established after a very dark spell. It helped rewire a few things.

[Gracestars]

Thanks again to everyone for their support. It helps to know others have been there too, although I regret that any of us have had to experience it.

Rei,

I was hoping you would post here.. good to hear from you. I was thinking about doing some ho'oponopono on this, so thanks for the reminder. You're right, this is a "sorting through" rather than a slip into clincial depression. Like many people here, I have experienced a deep and ugly depression in the past, and I am determined not to go there again, no matter what happens. I hope I can do that.

Sandra,

Thanks for the reframe. It's a beauty! At the moment I can apply it in isolation, but as soon as I start to think outside of myself, the anxiety increases again. I need to get the baseline up a bit, and hopefully start to believe the situation more in the light which you have described.

Bloss,

Thanks for the love, hon. Right back atcha. You're right, it is all too easy to see the self and one's surroundings in black and white terms when you're feeling in the gutter. Truth is, we all have lots of shade. We are not all bad or all good, in fact those terms themselves are unhelpful and almost unapplicable in a way. Good/bad doesn't really catch the essense of what it means to be human, does it? And it's true that learning is magnificant, it's what living is all about. I just wish I didn't have to keep doing it the hard way, ya know?

And in re to not talking about this with my RL loved ones, there are some really good reasons why I am choosing not to do that, which range from people not really understanding, to my appreciation of their limits and capacity to be able to "go there" -- my friends are not my therapist, to the fact that I would rather keep this out of my real world goings-on. Musing and delving with clever and compassionate people such as those in this thread is enormously helpful right now. There are ideas here I have not heard before and that is like gold to the great sponge that is me! In addition, no-one has to contribute, and that eases the depressed mind's guilt about being a burdern. If need be I have people in RL who will put their lives on hold for a time to hold my hand. For now, they can go about their days in peace. xx

Tanja,

Thanks for your ongoing support of late. You can barge in on my threads any time!

PWL, and honeywith4bees,

Thank you so much for the love and loving energy!! It made me do this and I'm most grateful for that.

Angela,

It's interesting because while I'm good at beating myself up, I don't think I really do that to other people so much. I mean, I can get cranky, but I don't generally go around thinking or treating other people as faulty or at blame. Still... I might need to think about this some more, I might be doing it on a less obvious level. Food for thought. Cheers for your insight, it has helped me no end to try to navigate some of this stuff, and start weeding my garden.

Cloud,

Some really interesting points, as always. I need to sit with them some. Thanks.

Carenkh,

I love that quote! Thank you so much for sharing it. Really helpful. I'm going to read her blogpost.

PTV,

Thanks. I get how huge it is. Like I said, I vowed not to let myself get to that place again... it was such an indescribably painful place, but I know that you know. I need to attempt my best, whenever I feel myself slipping, to hold up to that vow, so this is a very conscious move to try to nip it in the bud. I understand what you mean about leaning into sadness. I suppose this isn't sadness though, because I agree with you on this point. This is more like "uh-oh, I can feel the wheels spinning out of control, the night is closing in, get out fast," but I can see that you know that too. I'm touching the edge myself right now, but like you, I hope never to fall back over it again.