Apathy

[Einherjar]

Well, I'm not sure how to start this, but here goes:

I've been feeling very apathetic these past few months. I'm not sure why, because I use to be very idealistic and positive (and I think I should be, at age 14). My life has been rather turbulent lately, though.

I discovered www.stevepavlina.com many months ago. I was really intrigued by his articles, and I started to delve deeper. After reading "The Meaning of Life" series, I thought I had discovered my true purpose (looking back, I may have been a bit naive to think that so quickly), or at least one that was beneficial to myself and others. I quickly got to work on implementing this into my life, I.E. getting practical. I picked up GTD, and started using it; it worked like a charm, and I was a lot more organized than before. Sometime after that though, my zest for self development and progress started to fizzle.

And then, divorce. My dad left my mother, and I felt... apathetic towards it. The only time I felt truly emotional about it was when I had first found out, and then talked to my father. This event made my household a very stressful place to be. My mother had to work much more than before in order to support us, and there was a lot of yelling and doors slamming. My grades and attendance record became worse and worse, and my mother made it very clear to me that, at the moment, "school was my number one priority". I disagreed; my main concern was my emotional well-being. Feelings of emptiness were starting to plague me, and I lost any true sense of purpose I once had.

My situation has been stagnant for the past few weeks. I haven't been able to find any motivation to do anything that might be considered "productive", so I've basically been doing things that bring me immediate pleasure, like gaming and hanging out with buddies.

Logic would suggest that it was the divorce that brought about all of this, but I'm not so sure. I don't feel like I'm hiding anything when it comes to the divorce. I feel a bit sad about it, but not especially. I still see my father and mother regularly, and they still talk with each other. I think it may be the loss of a sense of purpose that caused my current situation. It might seem like I'm aware of my current situation, but I'm not sure how to remedy it.

I love what Steve is doing, and I really appreciate that he's putting all of his knowledge and experience out there for everyone to learn from. I wish all of you the best of luck.

[WayToTwilight]

Hi Einherjar (You haven't happened to have played Valkyrie Profile have you?)

I don't know about you, but to me Apathy has always been somewhat compounded with depression. I'd usually state that I was apathetic but really I felt depressed, and thoughts of pointlessness would surface. Then I'd be apathetic and not want to do anything.

I think the fact that you feel you should do something about it shows you aren't entirely apathetic. Rather you have concern for your own personal well-being, which is a good step in the right direction. I think school to some extent is very important but if this apathy is getting in the way of normal everyday functioning, I would agree with you that this should be your number one priority.

I think a loss of purpose is exactly what's going on. However, have you actually ever tried asking yourself that? Like honestly ask yourself. If you can't come up with an answer, I think it's perfectly fine. Many of us don't have purposes yet, at least life purposes. But is there anything that you do want to achieve? Any goals or desires at all? Try to tap into that. I suggest maybe taking some time to think about. I'm sure you have plenty of chances to think things over.

I've never gone through a situation like having my parents divorce so I don't know how much my own experiences can help you. Though I do hope that you can possibly touch the light, even in the deepest darkness. I think a positive attitude and energy go a long way. And that's why were all here. We're all here to give each other support and motivation to go after what we really want. And I sense, at least for now, that you want to get help, you want support and you want some people to talk to. So I guess the best thing to do is to keep your chin up, and seek out others who lead you in a positive direction. Maybe your friends or other family members, and of course, we're all here.

So if you desire help, there's lots of it. I can sense this community is growing really fast and in a really positive light. Most of the people I've seen here are very friendly and willing to give their two cents. This is why we're all here. Hope that helps.

[Einherjar]

There are certainly things I want to achieve, but I've been questioning whether achieving these goals will matter, and that leads to questions about what makes something "matter", which in turn leads to why it matters if something matters, and so forth. =P

Thanks for being so kind, WayToTwilight.

[Gautam]

Hey Einherjar!

From my experience I've come to know that being "Apathetic" is very close to being in "A" "Pathetic" state of mind. (Sorry of the bad analogy , hope that cheered you up atleast).

Yes, this is what I'm going through as well. Allow me to draw out the similarities of our situations. Right after college, I've moved to this new city (about 1000 miles from home) back in August to look for a job. I've been staying with my best-friend and she's given me everything (including the laptop through which I'm writing this). Now its almost mid-November and after several interviews and so on, I've grown tired of anticipation, and sitting around all day doing nothing. I don't know what to do or feel anymore.

Now let's get back to you. I know you don't feel like focussing in class anymore (used to happen to me too), but you have to take this up under the "self-discipline" department. So your mother says school is your number one priority, alright! get that taken care of. Self-discipline is the power to take action regardless of what your emotional state is presently. So you feeling apathetic in class? No problem, just get those class things done regardless. Once you got that out of the way you can start working on your emotional state. This is one thing I learnt in college. If you're sick, take a pill and attend class, take notes and go back and rest. If you're emotionally down, just suck it all up for awhile, get done with class and go work on your emotions right after that. Trust me, this is the first step to being 'professional'.

Secondly, you say you're indulging in things that bring immediate pleasure like gaming and hanging out with friends. This is not bad my friend, this is good for you. Everyone of us needs to indulge in some immediate pleasures regularily to remind us that we should have fun very often. I hang with my friends every weekend regardless of what I'm feeling. I've not found a job in over 2 months and my friends are busy working on weekdays, so we get together on weekends to hang out and trust me, there is no difference in how we treat each other. They don't feel any sympathy for me not settling down on a job for this long and I don't feel any envy for my friends being so busy with work. Friends are great to have around, they're reassurance to the soul that its not alone. Frankly sometimes, I find gaming like some sort of a meditation. You're completely engrossed in a world somewhere else and for that particular time you can forget all your real-world worries and just be free. But the only thing you have to keep in mind that anything done in excessive degrees only spoils it. If I hung out with my friends all the time or gamed all the time, it would've taken the fun out of it. So you must find the balance between the time you need immediate pleasures (these are the times that you feel down) and the time you need to pursue more important tasks that need to be done regardless of your emotional state.

Hope I was of some help. I'm in the process of repairing my own life currently and like I mentioned before, my emotional states are as unstable as yours. But that doesn't mean we can't act on what needs to be done or offer to help others who are in the same boat.

All the best!

[Einherjar]

Thanks for the reply, Guatam.

I was looking for more of a long-term solution though. I could "suck it up" and make school my number one priority, but I don't quite see what good that would do. I think Twilight is right, and this is more of a purpose-driven issue, as opposed to an "I can't find the motivation to do schoolwork" issue.

Perhaps a mod would be kind enough to move this to the "Character and Contribution" section? Sorry I posted this in the wrong forum.

[RT Wolf]

Purpose is a tricky thing, especially when you're that age. I recall being pretty much the same as you between the ages of 14 and 17. The way I got through it, among other things, is having a really close friend who I could talk about most things. We both really helped each other get through a tough period in both our lives.

I know this seems like a short-term solution, but I would recommend doing something new. Pick up a new sport (trialsbiking was awesome for me--www.trials-online.com if you're interested), make new friends. Step outside of your comfort zone and recognize that while your parents' divorce may have happened to you, you are in no way responsible for it and that you're going to be proactive about life. Like posting here is a great move. You're gonna happen TO life, not the other way around. Just start taking charge.

Nowadays, when I'm feeling down, I do what Pavlina recommended and listen of motivating audio tapes. Anthony Robbins is especially good for that. I'd recommend that, strongly.

The long-term is really just made up of a few short-terms. Treat everything you can accomplish in one day as a step forward. You said you didn't do anything productive; do something productive even if it's something simple like doing the laudry or cleaing your room or clearing out your computer and celebrate that. Hopefully this'll help you feel better soon.

Life is exciting. Live it.

HTH!

[JeffS]

Originally Posted by Einherjar

Perhaps a mod would be kind enough to move this to the "Character and Contribution" section? Sorry I posted this in the wrong forum.

I think it's okay where it is. We're still working on defining each of the forums, and when we're dealing with issues like this, there's a lot of grey area. The mods haven't talked about this much, but I get the sense we're not going to be all that strict about figuring out exactly where the line is on stuff like this, so don't worry too much about it.

[Einherjar]

@RT Wolf: I think it'll be a good idea to have a friend to talk to like you said, I'll look into it. Trying out some new things doesn't sound bad either. As for being productive: well, I put "productive" in quotes in the original post because a lot of terms, like "productivity" and "worthiness", have lost their meaning to me. How would I know whether something I'm doing is actually productive or worth doing?

I think part of the issue is that, as an atheist, I don't have any foundational beliefs to fall back on. It seems completely plausible to me that there's no actual reason why we're here, existing. If the world can truly be perceived as evolution, as Steve puts it, how would furthering the process of evolution be beneficial? And how do we define "beneficial"? I've been asking "why" quite often lately, but it doesn't always seem like the right answer to ask. Is there really a reason for everything?

@JeffS: Alrighty, thanks.

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I've got my first appointment with a therapist (or maybe it was a psychologist...?) in a few days. Do you guys feel that he would be a be able to help? I'm not sure if he would understand my problem, because I'm not sure how many people experience apathy or depression from issues like mine.

[RT Wolf]

Interesting. I went through pretty much exactly those questions when I was around 14. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about that.

Good luck with the therapist.

[Alvin]

Hi Einherjar,

You're a young philosopher at the age of 14

These questions aren't wrong, anybody who wants to be and have more out of life struggles with them at one time or another. All the great philosophers have, but modern living doesn't seem to have much place for them.

Drop by the philosophy section of the library, you'll realize you're not alone

My suggestion? RT Wolf is right; the long term is built out of a few short terms. I felt the same way you did when I was younger, and it made me a few regrets. If I could change one thing by going back again, it'd just be to adopt the attitude of doing the next best thing.

To recognize that I might not have all the answers, and also to recognize that all I truly have is the now, and to live now in the best way I can.

I hope this helps, keep us in touch

[WayToTwilight]

Yeah I was surprised to hear that you were only 14. When I was your age (wow talking like an old timer and I'm 20...) I never had any of those thoughts. I suppose it is because I come from a really sheltered background. I lived in a pretty all-american town where nothing bad ever happened and it was pretty much just your typical Pleasantille, USA. I felt happy living complacently back then.

It's good to see your seeing a therapist, maybe they can shed some light on the issue.

I also really admire you for being so philosophical, so in touch with your feelings and for having such an introspective nature at such a young age. You are more aware of yourself than most people at that age. A sign of maturity.

[Einherjar]

It's been almost five months since I lasted posted here, wow.

I don't think apathy is as much of a problem for me anymore. I took my therapist's advice, and took a few months off from school to fly all the way to China to stay with my relatives. It's hard to be apathetic when you're surrounded by so many loving, doting people and beautiful scenery.

I can't say that I'm any closer to figuring out what to do with my life. I've pretty much given up on trying to come up with a definitive, all encompassing life purpose. This article sums up my feelings pretty well:

Council for Secular Humanism

So there you have it: We who are not orthodox religious believers can't find any underlying reason for existence. And we know that death looms ahead. So we must make the interval as enjoyable as possible while we're here. This view of life's purpose was summed up a few years ago by the title of a Unitarian seminar:“Dancing Over the Dark Abyss.”And Zorba the Greek taught us, What is life, if not to dance?

I think the best plan of action for me right now is to experience as much as possible (new hobbies, friends, places) and do well in school to open up opportunities for the future. The only thing I'm missing is the motivation to do so. Maybe I just need some momentum?

[InJoy]

Glad to see you're feeling better. How amazing to get to go to China! (I'll try not to be too envious.)

I think you have a great idea by getting involved with as much as you can and do well in school, etc. As for the motivation part, what worked for me when I felt unmotivated was doing things that I didn't dread. (Since, at the time, there was really nothing I really wanted to do.) After a little while, certain things became more fun or empowering, and I'd get a glimmer (just a glimmer) of motivation to do it a little more. I grabbed onto every little bit I could, and just kept doing those things. Now, many of those hobbies and activities are mainstays in my life today that I love to do, and there aren't enough hours in the day to do everything that interests me!

One other thing. I remember being 14 years old. It sounds to me like you are handling it way better than I did. But there's no doubt that stuff is changing in your body (think hormones) that will contribute to these feelings of apathy and lack of motivations. They sure did for me. But the thing to remember is that it will pass.

Hope that helps.