Gender Identity Disorder

[person]

I've had a problem pretty much my whole life and I'd like some input on it. This is going to be a really long post.
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I would very much like to believe things like "we can make ourselves happy" or "we can attract what we want" and all that stuff, but my situation in life has told me otherwise- that there are indeed insurmountable barriers to happiness in some cases.

I have gender identity disorder, which means that I am unhappy as my biological gender (which is male). I've had this problem my whole life. Basically, I hate my body and don't enjoy anything in life.

Most people that know me wouldn't be able to figure out that I am anything other than a regular straight guy. I dress normally and don't have any of the stereotypical mannerisms associated with someone who is gay or transgendered. Only people that have known me for a very, very long time begin to ask me whether I'm gay.

I have spent so much time trying to identify exactly what it is that makes me feel this way, but I have been unable to form a conclusion. When I was a little kid I had girls as friends and always wanted long hair. I have never been interested in dating women, though sometimes I am attracted to men. I wouldn't classify myself as gay, though, because I'm not interested in sex with a man with this male body. I mean no offense to gay people, but man/man sex is not something I want. So I'm stuck in this weird gray area where I'm sort of asexual, because no form of sex is desirable to me, but I have emotional desire to have a relationship with a man and be physically intimate in some ways. Basically, if I had a female body I'd be straight, but as a male body there is nothing that interests me.

I don't hate men, I just hate the fact that I am a man. I don't feel right in this skin, and never have. When I see women, I am envious, because that's what I want to be. I just feel like I resonate with that body, and not this sort of body. Objectively, I think it's easier to have a male body. Bigger, stronger, no menstruation, less sexism, more rights in some countries, fewer double standards, and so forth, but for me it just feels wrong.

I am not interested in sex change operations because for the way I look, it would just not work out right. I would look like a man with a sex change, not a woman. Some sex change operations are performed wonderfully because they either started young or because they have natural features that make it work, but with my body it would just look silly. Besides, is surgery really the answer?

Having spent years in depression because of this, more problems came up. I began to question whether life has any purpose or meaning if we're just born a certain way and can't change it. So my depression expanded from just depression about this one issue to general depression. What is gender, really? Why can something like this have such a big impact on life? What purpose is there in life? Why do I bother to do anything? Nothing in life gives me any pleasure or satisfaction- it's all just boring and gray and numb and unsatisfying. Why is the body so fragile and disgusting? What power do we have, if we can die so easily, and are stuck with these horrid biological fleshy things? Nothing excites me, and I have no goals, even though by all observations I'd look like a fairly successful person (when really I'm just going through the motions for lack of something better to do).

I used to feel like if only I was born a woman, I'd be happy. But from where I am now, that's naive. How can happiness be tied to something so mundane like what kind of meat we're made of. Even if I woke up tomorrow as a woman, I'd be depressed that there is no depth here, only shallowness, like how only a change in flesh was the solution.

I feel like I'm destined to be sad for a long time until I eventually die. I won't have any children, will always feel uncomfortable, and will die lonely.

Any perspectives on how to salvage this situation would be appreciated. I don't expect much, but I'm curious.

[Cochonette]

You don't have "Gender Identity Disorder" any more than I have "Homosexual Disorder." This is just another attempt by the psychology community to pathologize sex and sexuality.

Have you tried talking to other transgendered/transsexual people?

I met a fellow Buddhist who was sort of trans, had gotten breast implants, but stopped for thinking that the rest of the transition was too expensive. So ze semi-identified as a straight man just because that's how others, including hir girlfriend, saw hir. But ze told me ze had stopped worrying over hir sex/gender and come to think of it as trivial because gender's not real.

It sounds like you first need to find something to care about. A purpose in life. Check out Steve's article: How to Discover Your Life Purpose in About 20 Minutes

Life used to have no meaning for me either. But meaning is something we create. You can choose to create meaning for your life or just resign to the fact that you haven't yet found meaning and give up. I don't recommend the latter. Even to say that life is meaningless is a kind of meaning, though it may not feel like it.

When you find something immaterial to hold onto, the material things become less important. This has been my experience, in any case.

[Zanriel]

According to accounts of life between lives regression and theories of the soul and reincarnation, what happens in these cases is a person has primarily incarnated as one particular gender for a significant number of lifetimes. Then, in order to experience something different and develop as a soul, that person decides to incarnate into a different gender than normal. This leads to feelings like you describe.

I can resonate to some degree. I'm male, straight, attracted to women. However, I'm strongly in touch with my feminine side, and sometimes feel like I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body. I tend to be sensitive, empathic, and nurturing. I like soft things. Puppies and kittens totally melt my heart. I'd like to think, if anything, I'm fairly well balanced between the masculine and feminine in myself.

I believe everyone is some mixture of male and female on a soul level. Some swing farther to one side than the other, and it doesn't always match the body you were born with. The idea that you chose to be born this way can be a comforting thought. It gives you a goal to shoot for - mastery of your particular circumstances. If you can believe for a second that there was a good reason you chose a male body, it might help you accept that choice and live with it.

Other than a metaphysical explanation and solution, I can't really think of much else to help except maybe to spend a lot of time exploring and learning to love yourself as you would another person who you really care about. Step outside yourself for a moment and pretend like you were approaching another person, like a brother, sister, mother, father, or long-time best friend. What would you want to say to that person? How would you want that person to feel if you could reach in and flip a few wires around? Then turn that back and apply it to yourself. Practice makes perfect... keep at it until it becomes a habit.

[person]

Thanks. I didn't expect such quick responses. I'll respond here for the night. Please don't take my counter-points as debate, it's just that since this has been a problem I've had for a long, long time, my mind has spent so much time considering so many angles and so I don't expect many points to be made that are new to me.

Originally Posted by Cochonette

You don't have "Gender Identity Disorder" any more than I have "Homosexual Disorder." This is just another attempt by the psychology community to pathologize sex and sexuality.

I don't think they're trying to be sinister. I don't think homosexuality could be classified as a disorder since someone can be homosexual and very much ok with that. In contrast, I definitely view my gender issue to be a disorder since it has been a problem for decades now, since I was a little kid.

Have you tried talking to other transgendered/transsexual people?

A few. I had a friend switch from female to male. I guess the person was lucky since when he was a she, she already had very male physical characteristics and so the person looks great as a guy with hardly any effort.

In college there was a group of lgbta people but I never much related. There was a transgendered person who went from a guy to a girl, and he would go to drag shows and dress up in giant peacock feathers and was very outgoing, loud, and doesn't really have any emotional issues.

I met a fellow Buddhist who was sort of trans, had gotten breast implants, but stopped for thinking that the rest of the transition was too expensive. So ze semi-identified as a straight man just because that's how others, including hir girlfriend, saw hir. But ze told me ze had stopped worrying over hir sex/gender and come to think of it as trivial because gender's not real.

For one, the buddhist you describe was apparently attracted to his girlfriend, so he doesn't face the issues I have. It's not a trivial thing to not feel attracted to anyone in the body that your in.

Secondly, the debate of whether gender is real or not is something I've thought a lot about. If gender is not real, what is? How much can we strip away from our body and our personality until nothing is left? Without a self, or any characteristics, why bother to exist?

It sounds like you first need to find something to care about. A purpose in life. Check out Steve's article: How to Discover Your Life Purpose in About 20 Minutes

I tried that years ago and it did not work. I've spent a lot of time trying to find things I'm passionate about and it hasn't been effective. I mean, there are small things I feel a little bit inspired about- for instance I like my job for the most part, but that's not a really complete feeling. I still feel empty and pointless every single day.

Life used to have no meaning for me either. But meaning is something we create. You can choose to create meaning for your life or just resign to the fact that you haven't yet found meaning and give up. I don't recommend the latter. Even to say that life is meaningless is a kind of meaning, though it may not feel like it.

When you find something immaterial to hold onto, the material things become less important. This has been my experience, in any case.

What immaterial thing have you found to hold onto, if you don't mind me asking?

Originally Posted by Zanriel

According to accounts of life between lives regression and theories of the soul and reincarnation, what happens in these cases is a person has primarily incarnated as one particular gender for a significant number of lifetimes. Then, in order to experience something different and develop as a soul, that person decides to incarnate into a different gender than normal. This leads to feelings like you describe.

I can resonate to some degree. I'm male, straight, attracted to women. However, I'm strongly in touch with my feminine side, and sometimes feel like I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body. I tend to be sensitive, empathic, and nurturing. I like soft things. Puppies and kittens totally melt my heart. I'd like to think, if anything, I'm fairly well balanced between the masculine and feminine in myself.

I believe everyone is some mixture of male and female on a soul level. Some swing farther to one side than the other, and it doesn't always match the body you were born with. The idea that you chose to be born this way can be a comforting thought. It gives you a goal to shoot for - mastery of your particular circumstances. If you can believe for a second that there was a good reason you chose a male body, it might help you accept that choice and live with it.

I used to try to approach it like this, actually. I figured maybe I was a female in a male's body to learn diverse experiences, but so far all I've learned is that humans have no control and that when we lack certain things, like a body we enjoy or an identity we can associate with, happiness is impossible. If this has been a "lesson" it's been a destructive, backwards one because it's not working.

I also used to view it like Karma, like maybe in a past life I was a sexist or was homophobic or something and this is my punishment for it. I don't think this is the case either, though. And if it is, then I learned the lessons of not to be a bigot or homophobe by the time I was like 8, so any time after that is not helpful.

Other than a metaphysical explanation and solution, I can't really think of much else to help except maybe to spend a lot of time exploring and learning to love yourself as you would another person who you really care about. Step outside yourself for a moment and pretend like you were approaching another person, like a brother, sister, mother, father, or long-time best friend. What would you want to say to that person? How would you want that person to feel if you could reach in and flip a few wires around? Then turn that back and apply it to yourself. Practice makes perfect... keep at it until it becomes a habit.

That's a problem I've faced. I used to try to reconcile this problem with metaphysics. I think a lot of people do that when they are confronted with things they can't handle. But I've since viewed that as a cop-out. By using metaphysics to "make this ok", I'm just reaffirming powerlessness by saying that I am dependent on an afterlife or another life to make it all ok. Just like how I think it's a cop-out for me to say that if only I was female I'd be happy, I think it's a cop-out to say that I was a female in past lives and I'll get to be a female in future lives so I can be happy when that happens.

And I have no idea what I would tell someone who was in my position how to deal. I can do stuff like that in circumstances where I can think of a solution, but for years I haven't found a satisfactory solution to this.

[dulaney0330]

A very confusing place to be, indeed.]

It's tough to build on a foundation that is shaky and uncertain, so I can certainly understand your confusion and frustation.

Well, the obvious question would be: What your your childhood like, specifically that of the parent child relationship?

I have always placed high value on the childhood because it influences so much of adulthood. It paves the way for the rest of our lives and it makes sense to start there.

[The Unconquered]

person,

For a long time in my life it was a secret sorrow of mine that I was born in a female body. I've never really understood most women, but obviously I couldn't always hang out with the guys. I've come to the conclusion as of late that in between lives, I was curious about this whole understanding women thing, so I'm trying it out this lifetime. It's not easy. I still come across as a guy online without an avatar, including on this forum. And I'm about as charismatic and effeminate as Hillary Clinton.

But that's cool, actually. Turns out there are men out there that like women with "masculine energy." I read that as they'd really like to date a guy (as women are confusing as hell), but with female bits. Thus, I'm currently in high demand. And there are actually many advantages to being a woman that men simply cannot have. Like that whole baby-making capacity. But next time around, if I have to be a woman, I'm going to manifest as a Marilyn Monroe lookalike. Rawr.

And BTW, I didn't find my purpose with that 20-minute exercise, either. IMO, you only come up with your purpose when you're fully ready to intend knowing what it is and to accept responsibility for it. Oddly enough, I realized my purpose shortly after watching that Temple Grandin movie that Claire Danes starred in recently -- and I had been doing that 20-minute exercise repeatedly for years. So when you're ready, it will happen, whether you've been writing for 20 minutes or not.

[Chris_1977]

Maybe you could try to behave more effeminately and that would feel better for you? Kind of like playing what you want to be? Is it really necessary to feel so very conscious of your body all the time? After all, one does not really see it, except in the mirror. This does not solve the issue with your sexuality, but maybe it could make you feel a bit better in daily life. People do not always react that well to effeminate men but at least you could maybe feel a bit more congruent with yourself and that might be some improvement.

Not sure really, just my best guess at what could help a little. I am not speaking from experience as I am just gay and perfectly fine with my body as it is.

Best of luck anyway!

[person]

Originally Posted by dulaney0330

A very confusing place to be, indeed.]

It's tough to build on a foundation that is shaky and uncertain, so I can certainly understand your confusion and frustation.

Well, the obvious question would be: What your your childhood like, specifically that of the parent child relationship?

I have always placed high value on the childhood because it influences so much of adulthood. It paves the way for the rest of our lives and it makes sense to start there.

My mother allowed me to do what I wanted as a kid. When I was around 5-6 I asked to wear a dress and to learn to paint my nails, and she was hesitant but let me do that. I eventually stopped doing that as I was at the age where children begin to care what other people think of them, at least a little. My father signed me up for various sports and martial arts when I was a little kid, and I became a very skilled kickboxer all the way through college. I always wanted to grow my hair long during that time but my father and aunt and uncle never allowed me to. Ever since college I had a moderately receded hairline so long hair would look pretty bad, so even when I finally had the freedom to I decided against growing it out.

I have good relationships with my parents and aunt/uncle. They've all, at different times starting during college, asked me if I was gay and that they'd accept that. I've just told them that I'm not gay but I'm not interested in dating women either.

Originally Posted by The Unconquered

person,

For a long time in my life it was a secret sorrow of mine that I was born in a female body. I've never really understood most women, but obviously I couldn't always hang out with the guys. I've come to the conclusion as of late that in between lives, I was curious about this whole understanding women thing, so I'm trying it out this lifetime. It's not easy. I still come across as a guy online without an avatar, including on this forum. And I'm about as charismatic and effeminate as Hillary Clinton.

But that's cool, actually. Turns out there are men out there that like women with "masculine energy." I read that as they'd really like to date a guy (as women are confusing as hell), but with female bits. Thus, I'm currently in high demand. And there are actually many advantages to being a woman that men simply cannot have. Like that whole baby-making capacity. But next time around, if I have to be a woman, I'm going to manifest as a Marilyn Monroe lookalike. Rawr.

And BTW, I didn't find my purpose with that 20-minute exercise, either. IMO, you only come up with your purpose when you're fully ready to intend knowing what it is and to accept responsibility for it. Oddly enough, I realized my purpose shortly after watching that Temple Grandin movie that Claire Danes starred in recently -- and I had been doing that 20-minute exercise repeatedly for years. So when you're ready, it will happen, whether you've been writing for 20 minutes or not.

Thank you for your story.

Originally Posted by Chris_1977

Maybe you could try to behave more effeminately and that would feel better for you? Kind of like playing what you want to be? Is it really necessary to feel so very conscious of your body all the time? After all, one does not really see it, except in the mirror. This does not solve the issue with your sexuality, but maybe it could make you feel a bit better in daily life. People do not always react that well to effeminate men but at least you could maybe feel a bit more congruent with yourself and that might be some improvement.

Not sure really, just my best guess at what could help a little. I am not speaking from experience as I am just gay and perfectly fine with my body as it is.

Best of luck anyway!

I post on a few online forums where my identity is a female. It's not meant to be deceptive; I just act like myself and it feels comfortable. It helps a little but is obviously lacking a lot.

In terms of everyday life, I'm pretty much a genderless blank slate. I look like a man but I don't like sports, am not competitive or aggressive, and have no interest in a lot of things that men do. I still have a bunch of female friends but I can't relate all that much because they talk about their kids or their husband and I don't have those things, plus it reminds me of what I'm missing. So usually I'm pretty quiet and just talk about work (at work) or just talk about events or topics with friends and just end up repressing any sort of gender when I'm with other people.

[ChrisG]

It sounds to me like getting a sex change may actually be very beneficial to you. I may even go as far as to say the right thing, but then it's your choice. Do not worry about what other people will think of you- you are doing what is right and what is necessary for you to feel happy, and that is what matters. Your fear of judgement is mostly in your mind. All that said, however, it's your decision.

In the meantime, I definitely agree with Chris_1977. Accept your femininity and allow yourself to be more the feminine person you are. In everything that you do. And again, don't fear judgement- you are unique and if anyone doesn't like you for it, then that's their problem not yours. Maybe even wear women's clothes on a regular basis if that helps.

Lots of guys feel like they have a feminine side that they need to express. I know it's different for you since you kind of feel like a woman in a man's body, but it's not uncommon for guys to have girly sides. Sometimes guys might even like girly things. Just don't worry about it.

[Karanime]

Screw it, lmao.

Be who you are and be it loudly. Emotions and "feeling right" can happen anytime, anyplace.

I've always wanted to a bisexual man, just because I didn't like my girly bits and thought I'd be much happier with guy parts. Plus I'd be the greatest cross-dressing man who ever lived. Not kidding.

But I'm not. I'm a girl. Ironically, the thing that made me okay with being a girl was having sex with a guy. It got me to look at my gender as more of a tactical tool than something to identify with. As a result, I use my gender and good looks to get what I want. Only recently have I started identifying with how I look.

Online, people are surprised that I'm young and female, because I'm ridiculously smart. And for some reason, people think that only older, more male entities can have this kind of brain. Hmm.

It's probably easier for me since I'm bisexual, but realize that I'm still not immediately interested in men. I'm not sexually attracted to any guy unless I've known him for a while. Girls are instant. There are so many other details--like I'd probably never have a long-term relationship with a girl, but I'm more than happy to have a fling that lasts maybe a couple of months. With a guy, I'd probably get into a long-term side relationship where I'm the dom and he's the sub, or an equal friendship with benefits thing. It's all over the place.

So just go with it. Use your practical advantages of being a male, and revel in it. Don't envy us women just because you feel you identify with our body. I envied men because I identified with theirs, but some good old-fashioned vanity along with a touch of arrogance got me to start identifying with what I've got.

Y'know the kind of people who like to see their faces everywhere? If you're not one right now, be one.

/<3

[Karanime]

Originally Posted by person

In terms of everyday life, I'm pretty much a genderless blank slate. I look like a man but I don't like sports, am not competitive or aggressive, and have no interest in a lot of things that men do. I still have a bunch of female friends but I can't relate all that much because they talk about their kids or their husband and I don't have those things, plus it reminds me of what I'm missing. So usually I'm pretty quiet and just talk about work (at work) or just talk about events or topics with friends and just end up repressing any sort of gender when I'm with other people.

Around males, I am incredibly female, and around females, I am incredibly male.

But I look like a girl, and have no interest in talking about boys, no interest in getting married or having kids. I like shopping but that's because I like playing with how things look--it's more the designer in me than the girl in me.

I'd take a one-night stand over a long-term relationship. I'm introverted and don't go on MySpace or Facebook all the time.

No one is interested in the things I'm interested in. I take ormus, believe in the law of attraction and am learning how to open my chakras. I can't talk about that at school. So I talk about the things they talk about. I make jokes from 4chan even though I've only been there once. I use internet memes even though I get them from people in real life.

It's not about the gender, not really. It's about who you are and what you want to do. Just forget about should. Forget about what isn't. If you lived in a world where gender didn't exist, what would you do?

/<3

[dulaney0330]

Originally Posted by person

My mother allowed me to do what I wanted as a kid. When I was around 5-6 I asked to wear a dress and to learn to paint my nails, and she was hesitant but let me do that. I eventually stopped doing that as I was at the age where children begin to care what other people think of them, at least a little. My father signed me up for various sports and martial arts when I was a little kid, and I became a very skilled kickboxer all the way through college. I always wanted to grow my hair long during that time but my father and aunt and uncle never allowed me to. Ever since college I had a moderately receded hairline so long hair would look pretty bad, so even when I finally had the freedom to I decided against growing it out.

Thanks for sharing.

It sounds like you felt shame only because you knew other boys weren't into dressing up..is that correct?

Do you have a desire to want to be male?

Do you believe your parents had any impact on your unhappiness with your own sex? did you have a sister?

[joyfulgrowth]

Have you tried talking to other transgendered/transsexual people?

I second that - am sure you could profit from their experiences and get a lot of support from the community. How about joining an online support group?

[person]

Originally Posted by Karanime

Screw it, lmao.

Be who you are and be it loudly. Emotions and "feeling right" can happen anytime, anyplace.

I've always wanted to a bisexual man, just because I didn't like my girly bits and thought I'd be much happier with guy parts. Plus I'd be the greatest cross-dressing man who ever lived. Not kidding.

But I'm not. I'm a girl. Ironically, the thing that made me okay with being a girl was having sex with a guy. It got me to look at my gender as more of a tactical tool than something to identify with. As a result, I use my gender and good looks to get what I want. Only recently have I started identifying with how I look.

Online, people are surprised that I'm young and female, because I'm ridiculously smart. And for some reason, people think that only older, more male entities can have this kind of brain. Hmm.

It's probably easier for me since I'm bisexual, but realize that I'm still not immediately interested in men. I'm not sexually attracted to any guy unless I've known him for a while. Girls are instant. There are so many other details--like I'd probably never have a long-term relationship with a girl, but I'm more than happy to have a fling that lasts maybe a couple of months. With a guy, I'd probably get into a long-term side relationship where I'm the dom and he's the sub, or an equal friendship with benefits thing. It's all over the place.

So just go with it. Use your practical advantages of being a male, and revel in it. Don't envy us women just because you feel you identify with our body. I envied men because I identified with theirs, but some good old-fashioned vanity along with a touch of arrogance got me to start identifying with what I've got.

Y'know the kind of people who like to see their faces everywhere? If you're not one right now, be one.

/<3

There's nothing in particular that I want that my male body could get me.

I mean, the male strength was useful when I was a tournament fighter, but that wasn't a particular passion of mine, it was just an activity.

If you're the type of person that wants certain things and you use your body to get them, then that's great. I'm not like that, though. I feel like there isn't much that I want anymore. I'm not interested in flings.

Originally Posted by dulaney0330

Thanks for sharing.

It sounds like you felt shame only because you knew other boys weren't into dressing up..is that correct?

I don't think so. I was 5 or 6 years old, and I just wanted things that young girls often want. It's difficult to remember things that far back, but I don't think I felt any shame- I just didn't want to be embarrassed in front of others.

Do you have a desire to want to be male?

Not really, no. Throughout high school I tried to get myself to desire to be a male. I tried to date girls, and although I had/have a reasonable attractive male body and was able to get interest from girls, I wasn't able to go past that because it just never felt right. I had prom dates, but they were just friends to me, nothing more, even though I tried to mentally get myself to think of them as more.

I tried establishing different male personalities. I tried being a nice, serious guy. I tried being a sarcastic, funny, confident guy. I couldn't maintain them for very long, because they were false personalities. Every male personality I've had has been false, forced, practiced.

About half way through college I dropped the act. I stopped trying to force myself to be attracted to women, because it was just not there. I stopped working out because I just had no interest (I started working out back in high school to be a better fighter but ironically hated my physique the more it improved).

I no longer do that anymore; I'm just generic and boring with my personality.

Do you believe your parents had any impact on your unhappiness with your own sex? did you have a sister?

No, I don't think anything was their fault. It was probably just hormone imbalances in the womb or something.

My mother was supportive of whatever I asked for (she had a gay sibling and didn't want to force me into anything that I was not). My father simply tried to enroll me in activities that normal young boys would want to do, and the life skills from that are valuable in the long run. It kept me in shape and has allowed me to defend myself.

No, I have no sister.

[dulaney0330]

Originally Posted by person

No, I don't think anything was their fault. It was probably just hormone imbalances in the womb or something.

My mother was supportive of whatever I asked for. My father simply tried to enroll me in activities that normal young boys would want to do.

No, I have no sister.

I have a suspicion that a lot of people often feel it is hormonal simply because we have these feelings at such a tender age.

There is almost always a mixture of reasons for the expressions that we have and some of it may be hormonal.

However, I am a big fan of psychoanalysis and the unconscious mind. The effect of the unconscious can affect those around him or her. Your mother could have wanted a girl and unconsciously tried to suppress it. However, children are very sensitive to their caregiver's non verbal communication and perhaps you picked up on this.

Your unique personality, combined with any hormonal vulnerabilities, and a wide array of parental influences is certainly an explanation.

However, I am no expert and I would someday hope to study those more with struggles like yours.

[joyfulgrowth]

How about just being yourself and forgetting about the labels?

I have trans friends who don't believe in there being only two genders. While having been really depressed in the past, they have found peace with exploring life where they find themselves on the gender continuum. It is a really interesting experience to hang out with them, because I don't relate to them in terms of any gender identity, but simply from heart to heart as human beings.

[person]

Originally Posted by dulaney0330

I have a suspicion that a lot of people often feel it is hormonal simply because we have these feelings at such a tender age.

There is almost always a mixture of reasons for the expressions that we have and some of it may be hormonal.

However, I am a big fan of psychoanalysis and the unconscious mind. The effect of the unconscious can affect those around him or her. Your mother could have wanted a girl and unconsciously tried to suppress it. However, children are very sensitive to their caregiver's non verbal communication and perhaps you picked up on this.

Your unique personality, combined with any hormonal vulnerabilities, and a wide array of parental influences is certainly an explanation.

However, I am no expert and I would someday hope to study those more with struggles like yours.

I don't claim to know what causes transgendered people to be that way. They come from all over the world from all different types of families. In my research, a common theory I've come across is that it may have to do with certain hormones at a certain stage in development and that there may be other factors.

Theories of both psychological and biological causality have been forwarded and it is quite likely there are different causes for different individuals. Lately, strong research suggests that an incorrect amount of miss-timed secretion of male hormone during stages of fetal development may create a transgendered individual - whether male or female. Biologically, nature will produce a female unless male androgens are supplied at the right times and in the right amounts. There are physiological and mental gray areas between male and female "absolutes". Additionally, there are some theories arguing a genetic model of causality.

I don't particularly think it has to do with my mother wanting a girl. As far as I can remember she never did anything inappropriate or led me down any path. She simply came from a family that included some homosexuals and she was trying to be open to not force anything on me. Plus, I can remember in high school my mom encouraging me to go date girls and have fun. And at the same time, I had a father that put me into sports and all that, but I still ended up this way.

[person]

Originally Posted by joyfulgrowth

How about just being yourself and forgetting about the labels?

I have trans friends who don't believe in there being only two genders. While having been really depressed in the past, they have found peace with exploring life where they find themselves on the gender continuum. It is a really interesting experience to hang out with them, because I don't relate to them in terms of any gender identity, but simply from heart to heart as human beings.

I don't view it as just a label problem. I hate my body, how it looks and how it feels, and have a hard time being physically attracted to people due to it. I'm not attracted to women, and although I'm physically attracted to men I'm not physically attracted to sexual relations with men with my male body.

[dulaney0330]

Originally Posted by person

I don't claim to know what causes transgendered people to be that way. They come from all over the world from all different types of families. In my research, a common theory I've come across is that it may have to do with certain hormones at a certain stage in development and that there may be other factors.

Theories of both psychological and biological causality have been forwarded and it is quite likely there are different causes for different individuals. Lately, strong research suggests that an incorrect amount of miss-timed secretion of male hormone during stages of fetal development may create a transgendered individual - whether male or female. Biologically, nature will produce a female unless male androgens are supplied at the right times and in the right amounts. There are physiological and mental gray areas between male and female "absolutes". Additionally, there are some theories arguing a genetic model of causality.

I don't particularly think it has to do with my mother wanting a girl. As far as I can remember she never did anything inappropriate or led me down any path. She simply came from a family that included some homosexuals and she was trying to be open to not force anything on me. Plus, I can remember in high school my mom encouraging me to go date girls. And at the same time, I had a father that put me into sports and all that, but I still ended up this way.

I would like more concrete evidence on sexuality and I know a lot of it has not been researched thoroughly.

But, yes...it probably is a mixture of hormonal and developmental factors.

The difficult part with exploring the origins is uncertainty. If we could go back in time and observe your family for years, we may obtain useful information that contributed to your struggle. But, because of our tendency to idealize our parents and instead project their self hate onto ourselves (idea credited to Robert Firestone) and inconsistent memory, finding an explanation proves challenging.

I do not want to assume anything about your family. I am just thinking out loud. After reading countless books on psychology, I have found that many people underestimate their parent's influence on their lives and perspective of themselves. For example, Robert Firestone explained that a mother may send her child off to bed because, "you need your sleep." However, the child may pick up on that the mother really wants to be left alone. The mother does not say this simply because it would cause the child pain. So, instead she covers it by saying the child needs sleep.

Instances like this go on all the time in families and it's mostly unconscious.

[dulaney0330]

Originally Posted by person

I don't view it as just a label problem. I hate my body, how it looks and how it feels, and have a hard time being physically attracted to people due to it. I'm not attracted to women, and although I'm physically attracted to men I'm not physically attracted to sexual relations with men with my male body.

From a psychoanalytic viewpoint, perhaps your mother had struggles with her self-image. If so, she could have projected this onto you from an early age..possibly when you were less than 2 years old.

Just a thought.

I suggest you read "fantasy bond" by robert firestone. His insightful descriptions of relationships have encouraged me to think about my own past.

[person]

I not idealize my parents. Both of them are very far from perfect. They're divorced, have had (and overcome) alcohol problems, have their share of emotional problems, and have no idea how to handle money.

But while being as objective as possible, I have to say they were exceptional parents. Although I certainly can't recall every detail of life at a young age, I can see no reason to assume they were part of the reason I turned out the way I am, at least in this gender issue. They of course influenced much of my personality as a whole. That's what parents do. But with gender identity disorder being rather rare, and my parents having done nothing particularly unusual as parents, I don't see a connection.

I don't know whether my mother has/had self-image problems. I do know that she was quite active in dating before I was born, so apparently she was confident enough live that kind of lifestyle.

The question of how I got this way or which parent I can blame is not particularly important to me. All I know is that it's been there since my earliest memories. My care is how to cope with it, and that's why I'm thankful for various people's suggestions.

And the whole nature vs nurture debate just fuels my depression anyway. It just reaffirms my current viewpoint that humans have no power, we are not in control. Arguing whether everything we are made of is due to genetics and hormones (outside of our control) or parental influence at the earliest age (outside of our control), or some form of both is trivial to me. It's important to scientists, psychologists, psychiatrists, perhaps some patients of psychiatrists, but as a philosophical issue it just seems depressing to me either way. We're impressionable little robots created a way that we did not choose.

For some this is not a problem, because there is a bell curve and most people are somewhere in the reasonable part of it where things make sense. For others, it is a problem, because the way in which we were made is flawed, like a silly and apparently insurmountable problem of having a gender identity that does not match our physical sex. I've read time and time again that usually the best treatment is gender reassignment surgery, because no matter how much psychoanalysis you get, it almost never works, but the gender reassignment treatment does. But what does that prove? It proves that we are entirely dependent on our flesh for happiness and satisfaction. It proves that we require modern surgical advancements to feel purpose and contentment. My gender identity problem has long since expanded into existential depression. It has destroyed every belief I've tried to construct about purpose or power or happiness because I'm so utterly dependent on things outside of my control like genetics, hormones, or early parental habits. What can we claim for ourselves if our personality is not of our choosing?

[Eric L]

"we can make ourselves happy" or "we can attract what we want"

You can make yourself happy by learning emotional intelligence and emotional mastery. I have done this, it is learning how to interpret situations. Interpretations is what manipulates emotions.

You can learn to attract what you want with your intent, words, choices and body language.

Break down these areas and study only what you need and go to the next step when you are done.

[person]

Originally Posted by Eric L

You can learn to attract what you want with your intent, words, choices and body language.

Ok. I want a beautiful female body that can give birth to life.

Tell me how to attract that with my intent, words, choices, and body language.

[Cochonette]

Oh, dear God. Not psychoanalysis. That stuff is so 19th century!

[dulaney0330]

Originally Posted by person

I not idealize my parents. Both of them are very far from perfect. They're divorced, have had (and overcome) alcohol problems, have their share of emotional problems, and have no idea how to handle money.

Perhaps the above issues contributed, to an extent, your inner struggles.

Did these issues interfere at all with your relationship with them?

Originally Posted by person

But while being as objective as possible, I have to say they were exceptional parents. Although I certainly can't recall every detail of life at a young age, I can see no reason to assume they were part of the reason I turned out the way I am, at least in this gender issue. They of course influenced much of my personality as a whole. That's what parents do. But with gender identity disorder being rather rare, and my parents having done nothing particularly unusual as parents, I don't see a connection.

I understand. It would be interesting to find a little bit more about your childhood. When I was in therapy, I asked my mother questions about my personality and how my dad acted around me. Some of her answers provided some of the puzzle pieces to my therapeutic experience.

Originally Posted by person

I don't know whether my mother has/had self-image problems. I do know that she was quite active in dating before I was born, so apparently she was confident enough live that kind of lifestyle.

Every woman has encountered self-image problems! I haven't met a person who hasn't. I guess the question is the extent, if any, your mother experienced with self-image that maybe was projected onto you.

Originally Posted by person

The question of how I got this way or which parent I can blame is not particularly important to me. All I know is that it's been there since my earliest memories. My care is how to cope with it, and that's why I'm thankful for various people's suggestions.

Fair enough. I have found success in understanding why I am the way I am. When I understand, I find it easier to move on.

Perhaps it's different for you.

But, I believe all of us need to visit the past at some point and experience the pain that can still be felt (we all have been hurt).

Originally Posted by person

And the whole nature vs nurture debate just fuels my depression anyway. It just reaffirms my current viewpoint that humans have no power, we are not in control. Arguing whether everything we are made of is due to genetics and hormones (outside of our control) or parental influence at the earliest age (outside of our control), or some form of both is trivial to me. It's important to scientists, psychologists, psychiatrists, perhaps some patients of psychiatrists, but as a philosophical issue it just seems depressing to me either way. We're impressionable little robots created a way that we did not choose.

I definitely can empathize with your sentiments here. I struggled with these thoughts in therapy. My therapist and I delved into my past and it only frustrated me since I felt like I couldn't do anything about it.

And as much as I learned that there was a lot I could not control, I have also found there was freedom in accepting it. I also discovered I was naturally sensitive, curious, adventurous and playful. There are certain traits that were unique to me.

There will always been a sense of determinism and the freedom to act in the present. Sometimes, we may feel like victims or robots. Other times, we may feel empowered and strong.

Originally Posted by person

I've read time and time again that usually the best treatment is gender reassignment surgery, because no matter how much psychoanalysis you get, it almost never works, but the gender reassignment treatment does. But what does that prove? It proves that we are entirely dependent on our flesh for happiness and satisfaction. It proves that we require modern surgical advancements to feel purpose and contentment. My gender identity problem has long since expanded into existential depression. It has destroyed every belief I've tried to construct about purpose or power or happiness because I'm so utterly dependent on things outside of my control like genetics, hormones, or early parental habits. What can we claim for ourselves if our personality is not of our choosing?

It sounds like you have been down about this for long that its simply jaded you. You've been through a lot because of this particular issue and it can suck the joy out of life. And, sometimes you may find yourself trying to analyze your past and its simply tiresome.

We all engage in some type of modeling behavior and we all have acquired some traits from our parents. Some of us may have the same head tilt like our mother or a similar laugh like our father. I know that I like to eat ketchup with my macaroni and cheese/eggs like my father.

We are all born with a unique personality and some of it is influenced by both healthy and unhealthy influences. My natural sensitivity was attracted to my mother's care for the elderly but not attracted to my mother's chaotic parenting method. Thus, as an adulthood, I have chosen to keep desirable expressions of my personality and forsake others.

We do have a choice and there will be some determinism involved. It does not have to be all or nothing. Although, sometimes it's tough to corporate both at the same time.

[dulaney0330]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Oh, dear God. Not psychoanalysis. That stuff is so 19th century!

Robert firestone's book redeems the idea of psychoanalysis.

[Lancer786]

Build a relationship with trans who converted from man to women, also consult sex specialists, both will teach you good ways to convert your body into women's body. If it works then don't wait and go for a surgery.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by person

Some sex change operations are performed wonderfully because they either started young or because they have natural features that make it work, but with my body it would just look silly. Besides, is surgery really the answer?

Hi person,

It seems that you have ruled out both the physical and mental choices for yourself. That doesn't leave you with much!

I would think the way to resolve this is to thoroughly research the sex change option because you say feel like a woman in a man's body. Chastity Bono (Chaz) is going through such a transition. She, now he, says she/he's never been happier. The burden of being a man in a woman's body had taken it's toll on her.

I know this is a lot to take on, but the alternative is to stay unhappy as you are. If it's totally insurmountable mentally, physically may be all that's left.

[The Unconquered]

Originally Posted by person

Ok. I want a beautiful female body that can give birth to life.

Tell me how to attract that with my intent, words, choices, and body language.

Start up the process to get a sex change. Get into a field where they're doing research about reproduction outside of the "natural" womb. Meet up with transgendered support groups in your area.

I shared my story to show how I resolved my "transgendered" issues. Hey, I feel I'm a guy in a woman's body, but for various reasons I decided to stay how I am. I may change my mind later and get the surgery, but it's not in the foreseeable future. But that took a very long time of self-searching and suffering. You may go through it and decide to stay the same or go through with the surgery. But that decision is 100% up to you.

You may want to read Man's Search for Meaning, written by a Jew who survived the Holocaust. He basically concluded that between stimulus and response, there is a choice in how to react to the stimulus -- a choice entirely within one's control. I mention it here for your perusal. Reading it or not is your choice.

[bluedragon]

I wish you great courage and the best of luck with whatever decision you make. Being different in this way is special and a great challenge, it's kinda' like being a cylon, but if you pull it off, you're the best. Many great men are in a similar situation. For example, I was very surprized to find out that the actor who plays Barney in HIMYM (the biggest ladies man) is actually gay. So what? Everyone chooses his own path.