Needing some kind words

[Isis Kali]

I moved back to the house where I grew up. My grandfather, who is 83, has missed and worried about me severely for several years, so he's ecstatic. Also, I have to bail my sister out of the financial mess she's created; she has the mortgage to the house (my grandfather sold it to her in a moment of panic), yet has never paid the note- meaning that my grandfather has paid $60,000 for HER house over the last 4 years.

I have the upstairs apartment where my grandparents and I used to live. My task is to clean it out, sell whatever is salable on Ebay (a great jumpstart to my store), and start renovations. I'm also helping my grandfather learn how to use the computer and go on the Internet. He's very happy, my sister is probably deeply relieved, and I'm not feeling so good about myself.

I just moved from a gorgeous, wealthy neighborhood where we didn't even lock our doors to a complete ghetto environment where we bar the doors at night. I could wander to Whole Foods and the supermarket at 9:45 PM and not even think about it; now, I have to watch my back if I leave the house at 2 PM. Plus, this house holds so many bad memories for me. It's the place where my mother died, where I was sexually abused (touched the wrong way and leered at as a child, etc), and I was driven from my home after my mother died. I always lived in fear, here, because my sister was nuts and would verbally abuse me. Therefore, I was eternally on the defensive, with very strong walls put up.

When I was in the first neighborhood, I was able to open up to abundance in such a way that I could ask for something and it would literally show up within 24 hours, with practically no exceptions. It was amazing. My life felt so blessed. Now, I'm here, and I feel just...blocked up. My meditation, once clear and easy, is now full of jumbled thoughts that are hard to put to rest. I feel like I've regressed, to a degree, but at the same time I don't, because I finally have my own place.

I'm running out of money, yet can't get my sense of self-discipline back. I'm thinking of dropping the blog because I can't get myself to write. My other site is foundering, because I'm so frustrated with trying to teach myself code, Dreamweaver, Fireworks, and Photoshop so that I get something professional-looking and credible to even sell from. I have great fiction ideas, but can't tear myself away from mindless computer fluff long enough to write them- plus, fiction won't make me immediate money, so why bother?

I'm also having issues with self-care. When I went to the store yesterday, I made myself not accept my grandfather's offer of a ride, just so I could go out on my own schedule, take my time, and go where I wanted. He's instilled a fear of my neighborhood in me since I was a child which I'm trying to get away from (I've lived in a part of Brooklyn that's way worse than where I am now), but it's hard. I got my eyebrows done yesterday, something that I used to do in the better neighborhood, and I felt so good! Yet, things like washing and getting my hair done or doing my nails are a huge chore that I stall and stall on...even though they were par for the course in the better town.

I'm definitely NOT an employee. No, no, no. You all know that I need to make my own way, but it feels like I smacked straight into a wall. I could really use some supportive words to keep me going. Any ideas you have would be great, please.

[Isis Kali]

Ooookay, then.

[Dani]

Kali,

The problem with this, and with your other post especially is that you don't leave much room for anything but sympathy, and sympathy just makes all your troubles seem more real and valid and harder to escape from.

Most of the people here understand that to pat you on the back and tell you how hard done by you are will just make it worse and disempower you even more.

I will run the risk of offending you and attempt to help.

re Clinical depression :- I was diagnosed CD when i was in my early teens. Fought to be in control of my mind and emotions for four years without medication, won, and am now pretty much free of it. It can be done. *patiently waits for the 'But mine is different', 'you just don't understand how hard it is' etc. *

I would take a quick look over your posts, all you are focussing on is how bad things are. -I- started to feel down reading them. If this is what you are thinking all day no wonder you are depressed.

I can find at least 6 negative affirmations in your other post and dozens in this one. If you weren't depressed before you wrote them I can assure you, you would have been after them.

Before you berate me, please write a post about how good everything is in your life, then see how you feel. e.g. You don't live in Bhagdad where you have about a 60%+ of dying everytime you leave your house. Or Africa, where your problem would be finding three things to eat, not 3 computer programs to learn. At least 2/3 of the world's population would give everything they have to swap lives with you without thinking twice.

$50 bet if you write that post you will feel better (until you start thinking about the bad again) I promise in front of everyone here that I will pay your paypal account $50 US if you put in the effort to write a positive post and recieve no benefit whatsoever from it. At least you can afford to get your hair and/or nails done then.

If you refuse to write the positive post, i.e. refuse to make any attempt to feel better, then you are effectively saying that you want to be depressed. I don't think you do, so give it a go.

Life is sometimes tough. Today it's yours, 6 months ago it was mine. If you dwell on it too much it will stay that way. If you turn around, it WILL come good. *insert pantene shampoo ad here* (who gets that one?)

re Sites :- If you want help making your site look good, look for a partner who is a geek and would prefer to build than write, and do a profit share. e.g. I put up a post yesterday that I can make pretty sites but I need people to give me the content. Why didn't you reply to that? If your site doesn't make money then at least you didn't lose any, because you only have to pay me when you make some.

If you sort yourself out I would be happy to work with you. I have a decent amount of respect for you from what I have seen you say in these forums so far. I will forgive these two posts. I almost had a spat attack recently myself.

Yes you are in a pit, I understand, and give a bit of sympathy for that. Wallowing in it will keep you there, for that you get no sympathy. It isn't easy I know, but if you don't stop talking about how bad it is you will only make it harder.

A. Write the positive post, earn your $50, then abuse me for how your depression and situation is special and I just don't understand how hard it is.

Or B. write it, feel better, find someone to help you with your sites, (me or another doesn't matter) and make a lot more than $50, then get out of the dingy neighborhood, taking your grandfather with you. You might even have enough change to put your sister into counselling, and get a lawyer for the house.

[Matthew Shea]

These words may not exactly be kind, but it seems like what you need to hear:

It’s Your Fault That You Feel Bad!

Remember, you control your environment, not vice versa. You're stronger than this and will pull through and be a better, stronger person for it.

[janlee]

Hi Kali

Can identify with a lot of stuff ur saying.. am in a troubling situation myself.. but try hard to be and think positive everyday... Hey i don't even have a bedroom on my own rite Now!!

Thoughts are living things and what we think grows... so keep trying to think positive and things will change... hope u like this :

[Isis Kali]

OK, so the moral of the story in this is that I should be kicking myself for being depressive, and that it's just all in my head, and how silly I am for making the situation.

As someone who has battled depression for a good chunk of her life, and has helped others through it, one of the worst things you can say to a clinically depressive person is that it's all their fault.

I should have kept my fingers shut.

(And an honest thank you to janlee.)

ETA: quotes from someone else about their depression. Pretty much sums things up for me as well.

And while I fully respected the intelligence and expertise of the doctor I began to see, he could base his diagnosis only on the subjective information I was giving him. It wasn't his fault he thought I was depressed; it was mine.
A distinguishing feature of my depression has been the trouble I keep having with who should decide when depression is an illness, not a frame of mind. How can someone who's outside my mind clearly determine what's inside it, if all he has to go on is what I tell him? What if I've simply exaggerated my emotions and let them get the best of me? What if I'm not trying hard enough?

(snip)

To me, it's a bad attitude, a deficiency of willpower, and something I brought upon myself. It is a weakness I'm ashamed of. When I'm "depressed," this is how I reason: "I'm not nauseated. I don't have a fever. I can walk and talk and eat and read and shout hallelujah if I have to—I just don't want to. Which means I'm the one who's uncooperative. It's obviously my fault—don't go blaming it on some disease. Maybe other people have this disease, but not me." It never occurred to me that maybe all of my objections about having depression were being fueled by it.

Real depression, in my mind, was validated by tragedy, heartache, financial woes, abusive parents, a family death—the powerful blows life can deliver, not a few slaps on the wrist. It seemed to me one had to earn the right to call herself depressed. My loneliness and despair came from character flaws within me, not from tragic circumstances surrounding me, and though I often wished the doctor would come to my rescue, I knew I was no damsel in distress. My sad dragon was of my own making, visible only to me.

It's always been hard to believe it's really not my fault, any more than having diabetes would be. Like the song says, don't worry, be happy. Isn't it supposed to be that simple for everyone? Nothing is simple when you're depressed. Waking up to face a new day is hard. Getting something—anything—done is hard. Going out into the world is hard. Communicating, thinking, and deciding, keeping up with personal hygiene—it all seems so pointless. Hope is impossible.

...I knew I wasn't depressed, I had misled the doctor, I had exaggerated my pain, I wasn't trying hard enough, I was a wimp, I was stupid, it was all my fault.

[Matthew Shea]

I'm sorry you misunderstood, but the point of my posting was that YOU control how you react to a situation. Your situation should not control you. Nothing more.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Isis Kali

Any ideas you have would be great, please.

Isis Kali, I would like to invite you to look again for the love that's contained in the responses to your post.

Also, you might want to read your own posts to see what kind of response they invite. The main messages I heard in your original post were "I can't" and "I need" -- and I'll bet you're aware by now that the posters here don't tend to support those metamessages. We support the abundance of vitality, power, love and peace that we know are possibilities within you.

Dani wrote to you with an incredibly generous offer of coaching, inspiration and even money. Matthew Shea directed you to some of Steve's writing, intending to remind you of your own bountiful power. Rather than being grateful, you first reacted a little petulantly when you didn't get any responses as quickly as you 'needed', and then a little more petulantly when you got responses that weren't in line with what you 'needed'.

You were so right to post here, I think, because it gives you the chance to see a little microcosm of what may be happening in your life. Do you think that's possible? People tend to find what they're looking for; maybe this whole episode is an invitation from the universe to examine what and how you're seeking.

Lots of love and loads of power to you,
angela

[Isis Kali]

Originally Posted by Angela

Isis Kali, I would like to invite you to look again for the love that's contained in the responses to your post.

Also, you might want to read your own posts to see what kind of response they invite. The main messages I heard in your original post were "I can't" and "I need" -- and I'll bet you're aware by now that the posters here don't tend to support those metamessages. We support the abundance of vitality, power, love and peace that we know are possibilities within you.

Dani wrote to you with an incredibly generous offer of coaching, inspiration and even money. Matthew Shea directed you to some of Steve's writing, intending to remind you of your own bountiful power. Rather than being grateful, you first reacted a little petulantly when you didn't get any responses as quickly as you 'needed', and then a little more petulantly when you got responses that weren't in line with what you 'needed'.

You were so right to post here, I think, because it gives you the chance to see a little microcosm of what may be happening in your life. Do you think that's possible? People tend to find what they're looking for; maybe this whole episode is an invitation from the universe to examine what and how you're seeking.

Lots of love and loads of power to you,
angela

I understand that, but there's also a lot of blame in their posts, or at least lots of words that just make me feel shameful and foolish.

Plus, MS' link actually go to a forum post that doesn't reference one of Steve articles. I read it already.

I guess what I'm saying...and what I do in practice...is that I don't go the "Tough Love" route, especially when I recognize where someone's coming from in terms of depression. It backfires most of the time, and is generally a bad idea. They may not like those words in the forums generally, but sometimes people need to have a space to say those things...and they simply need someone to say, "I understand. You'll feel better. We're listening." Not "Well, don't you know it's your fault? Why don't you do thisthisthis?"

I'm regretting posting because all I'm hearing is that I'm not doing things right, I'm not receiving correctly, I'm wrong, I'm bad. That's what this all feels like to me. It's making me very, very upset right now, and I don't especially want to come back to this thread. I wish I could erase it.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Isis Kali

When I was in the first neighborhood, I was able to open up to abundance in such a way that I could ask for something and it would literally show up within 24 hours, with practically no exceptions. It was amazing. My life felt so blessed. Now, I'm here, and I feel just...blocked up.

Isis, you're doing great!

Have you considered that things had been too easy for you, and maybe you attracted some big challenges into your life so you could really spread your wings and feel your own huge power? Just food for thought.

Now, the universe is knocking on your head trying to heap benefit upon you, and you are telling it, "Ouch!! Quick knocking on my head!"

[Dani]

Originally Posted by Isis Kali

I understand that, but there's also a lot of blame in their posts, or at least lots of words that just make me feel shameful and foolish.

Plus, MS' link actually go to a forum post that doesn't reference one of Steve articles. I read it already.

I guess what I'm saying...and what I do in practice...is that I don't go the "Tough Love" route, especially when I recognize where someone's coming from in terms of depression. It backfires most of the time, and is generally a bad idea. They may not like those words in the forums generally, but sometimes people need to have a space to say those things...and they simply need someone to say, "I understand. You'll feel better. We're listening." Not "Well, don't you know it's your fault? Why don't you do thisthisthis?"

I'm regretting posting because all I'm hearing is that I'm not doing things right, I'm not receiving correctly, I'm wrong, I'm bad. That's what this all feels like to me. It's making me very, very upset right now, and I don't especially want to come back to this thread. I wish I could erase it.

Please read my post again. I said none of those things. You might be seeing them in my post but that's not what I said.

I spoke very straightforward yes, but you don't need to feel ashamed. I went through it myself.

Also look over your own posts, you already set yourself up to defend against these 'it's all in your head' posts, you even predicted they were coming! Going LOA style you intended these responses, and you probably had your response post already sitting in your head before any of us even read your initial ones.

You put us in a difficult situation. You basically said with your posts don't reply unless you are going to sympathise with me. But you want help? Sympathy does not help you, it -weakens- you.

Besides, if it really was chemical and you had no control whatsoever, then no words we say can have any effect positive or negative.

If our words can affect you, positive or negative, then you have at least a little control because we all know that outside circumstances only affect us when we let them.

Your posts also highlighted all the bad things in your life, and how you feel terrible after leaving your great life to go backwards to your old life.

If it is these circumstances that are making you feel bad then again it's not chemical it's circumstantial.

You cannot say - It is chemical and I, who am inside my head, have no control, but life, which is outside my head, has complete control of my emotions?????

You do realise the impossibility of that statement don't you?

Anyway I know lecturing you won't change your mind. "A person convinced against their will, is of the same opinion still!"

So I will quadruple the offer. $200 US If you can write a several hundred word positive post and not fell better. It is sitting in my paypal account right now with your name on it.

That will get your hair and your nails done, and you even take Grandpa out to dinner.

Prove to us it is out your control.

I also offerred to help you with your money and computer program stress. You threw the offer back in my face without even commenting on it. Do you really want help with these things or to just complain about them?

If you just wanted to vent then SAY THAT. Don't ask for help then reject everything people offer you and take a swing at them in the process.

If you can't show us you want to try to get out of the depression by at least taking my challenge, then why would any of us want to help you, when you don't want to help yourself?

Do the challenge and prove me wrong, or forever hold your peace.

-completely off topic but you obviously have a lot of pent up anxiety and pain attached to your youth, this could be the perfect opportunity to work through that pain, and free yourself from it leavign you stronger and happier than ever before.

[da1prophet]

Originally Posted by Isis Kali

As someone who has battled depression for a good chunk of her life, and has helped others through it, one of the worst things you can say to a clinically depressive person is that it's all their fault.

As someone who has also battled depression for a good chunk of my life, I have to say that while your statement may be true prima facie it still misses the point. The chemical imbalance that causes depression is certainly not the fault of the depressed person. However, it doesn't change the dynamic that you get the life that you create for yourself. It may be more difficult for us depression suffers to keep a positive mindset, or to practice a number of the other personal development techniques detailed on this site and others. That fact doesn't invalidate their effectiveness.

I've gone through some fairly significant personal trials over the past few years, including a divorce. I've had my own "depressive episodes" but I've eventually realized what everyone is trying to tell you--that your perception defines your reality. I've been amazed and the difference a simple change in perception has made in my own life--just putting a positive "spin" on my troubles has made them easier to deal with. I know that when you're in the midst of a depressive episode that's the last thing you want to hear, but its the truth. The longer and deeper you allow yourself to wallow in your own despair the worse things get.

At the very least you should consider yourself fortunate that you've got a number of people--most, if not all, whom have never met you--who care about what your going through. You can say that they're not understanding or not telling you the right thing, but just the fact that these people are there is something positive that you can build from.

[dgorila1]

Your environment is full of bad energy and is quickly destroying you. Between all the bad experiences, death, and other events that took place in this house, no wonder you feel so bad. I would suggest you move back on your own to the new life you had created that was full of positive energy. Your sister owns the property, not you, so you gain nothing from doing any work on it. You said she treated you badly all your life, so why put yourself in the situation again. There is so much negative memories, energy, events, etc in this area/house, the only way for you to regain your health and sanity is get out as you did before.

[Megan]

I know the feeling, believe me, for I am a child of Saturn also.

I also know the feeling of growing up with a lot of fear and sexual abuse in a dark house in a dark and scary neighborhood. I know the layers and layers of rock-like stuff that lays down in you.

I know how much better I feel when I am away from heavy environments, and I know how it all comes back like a ton of bricks when I come back to them.

I also know the gifts of Saturn, and I know that you shall know them too, in your time. And I think that you would not, at length, trade them for any amount of what the world calls success.

Others may advice you to cheer yourself up. I say, "when in deep water, become a diver." "When fishermen can't fish, they mend nets." "Consider the uses of adversity."

Feel it all, stay with it, unpack it and you will find that your darkness is full of information and wisdom. Don't be in a hurry, your soul knows what it is doing.

I wish you all good things. You are on my buddy list, by the way.

This is from Thomas Moore's Care of the Soul:

Maybe we could appreciate the role of depression in the economy of the soul more if we could only take away the negative connotations of the word.

What if depression were simply a state of being, neither good nor bad, something the soul does in its own good time and for its own good reasons? What if it were simply one of the planets that circle the sun?

One advantage of using the traditional image of Saturn, in place of the clinical term depression is that then we might see melancholy more as a valid way of being rather than as a problem that needs to be eradicated. ...

Melancholy thoughts carve out an interior space where wisdom can take up residence.

-- Beliefnet.com

Much love

Megan

[Megan]

When, as counselors and friends, we are the observers of depression and are challenged to find a way to deal with it in others, we could abandon the monotheistic notion that life always has to be cheerful, and be instructed by melancholy.

We could learn from its qualities and follow its lead, becoming more patient in its presence, lowering our excited expectations, taking a watchful attitude as this soul deals with its fate in utter seriousness and heaviness.

In our friendship, we could offer it a place of acceptance and containment.

Sometimes, of course, depression, like any emotion, can go beyond ordinary limits, becoming a completely debilitating illness. But in extreme cases, too, even in the midst of strong treatments, we can still look for Saturn at the core of depression and find ways to befriend it.
--Thomas Moore

-- Beliefnet.com

I think you are very resilient, Isis, to speak back to your comforters, as Job spoke back to his.

Be blessed, all of you.

[Holistic Star]

Originally Posted by Isis Kali

Also, I have to bail my sister out of the financial mess she's created; she has the mortgage to the house

I'm really curious about that statement. What makes it your responsibility to bail out your sister? If your grandfather has been bailing her out for years, then you bailing her out won't change anything - she'll still be financially feckless - AND she ends up owning the house, paid for with your grandfathers and your money!

Her financial problems are her responsibility. To take on her problems is to be a martyr. You won't get any thanks or return for your money or your hard work renovating the house. What do you get out of sorting out her mess?

If you changed the thought, "I have to bail my sister out", to "My sister is responsible for bailing herself out, I will support her emotionally but not financially should she choose to take that step." What difference would that make to your life?


Oh yes - and MOVE HOUSE! You're not happy, you don't want to be there, find somewhere else! Contrary to popular opinion on this site: having a day job that pays the rent is not the end of the world if it means you are able to be happy living in a place that is good for you.

[ReallyGoodIdeas]

Dear Isis Kali,

I agree that you need to move unless you can quickly control the spell this house has you under. While I understand the concept that some people have expressed here, sometimes you feel too bowed down to feel positive. It soudns like moving there has stirred up many unhappy memories for you. Why put yourself in that situation?

What is the arrnagement under which you've moved there? I understand that your Grandfather is happy to have you there, but it sounds like you are putting others' needs before your own. Is there some way you can relieve your Grandfather's distress without causing any distress for you? I'm with HolisticStar about your sister... Surely there can be a way that you can have a better life through this tho?

I agree thinking positively can help and all, but it sounds like the place is psychically oppressive for you. Be kind and loving to yourself first. You can't care for others (your Grandfather) unless you are well. So get yourself well again and see what you can do then.

Much love to you
Hazel

[ReallyGoodIdeas]

Oh and if you can't move, try EFT at least. It might help. Check this

Aim for joy
hazel

[janlee]

Hi Kali

Please dont give up coming to the forums, loads of people do care about u here and wish u well. All the advice is given with love... it is hard to know what is going on in peoples' minds.. none of us can know that and we shouldnt judge people - we dont have the right to do that.

I wish u well in ur efforts to cope with ur depression, do whatever feels right to u... maybe having someone to talk to - counselling - might help. I know it helps me.

Whether ur depression is chemically related or not doesn't really matter, and we can never measure ourselves against others .. thats not the way... we can only look at ourselves, see where we are in life and look for ways to deal with things.

I have suffered from depression all my life (am now 50) and my bro committed suicide at 18 (30 yrs ago now) because he was depressed. I never took any antidepressants until last Nov when my life completely exploded... my ex was arrested for abusing 2 boys we used to care for.. i had to move countries and live at my sis's flat now.. everything has gone.. but I am still here and i have to deal with the fallout.. I have no contact with my ex as I am going to be a witness for the prosecution... we were tog 17 yrs and it was v hard for me to believe he had done it. But i believe kids dont lie.. and after being sexually abused himself u'd think he'd know better.. I was abused in every way as a kid, and i couldnt imagine going back to that house - it must be a nightmare scenario for u.. I couldnt go back anyway cos its been demolished.. but even driving past the area gives me the creeps..

so how u r living there i don't know. U must be a very strong person inside.. Sometimes life throws stuff at us.. it doesn't really matter what it is .. its how we deal with it..

and u know what, only U, know how to deal with it...

take care, and i wish u all the very best in whatever U decide to do..

love and light

janlee x

PS Quote from Carl Jung: Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding
of ourselves.