Divorce

[Michelle]

For me the recent news of Steve and Erin's divorce has brought up some emotion concerning my own parents' divorce during childhood. When I first heard the news today, I felt somewhat anxious as if this forum - which has become a somewhat sacred space for me - were threatened. I also felt simultaneously sad and happy for the two and have spent much of my day facing some limiting beliefs concerning divorce such as:

Divorce is difficult, painful and traumatizing for all involved.
Divorce takes me away from home and the people I love.
Divorce is ugly.
Divorced people are ugly and mean to each other.

After several hours of meditation I now believe divorce is easy, fun and an all around joyful experience. I am still working on the other two beliefs and am sure they will also be transmuted within the next day or two.

From this perspective the event has already been a blessing in my life because it allows me to face and free myself of some emotional poison which had been lingering unnoticed below the surface.

All in all this particular divorce has the potential to go very very right and be a great teacher for many of us who have had painful divorce experiences in our pasts.

Anyone else feeling something?

[aelle]

I was lucky to be first confronted to divorce thanks to 2 friends of my parents who had a very joyous, relaxed and easy divorce. They realized they had reached the limits of what marriage could bring them so they disolved the contract while remaining best friends and deeply caring for one another. They both are in relationships now, but are still best friends.

Upon hearing the news, my mother got extremely angry and defensive. She refused to believe break up could happen in such a way and accused them of being in complete denial. You guessed what happened next, she is now entangled in an ugly, painful and destructive divorce. It's painful to watch because I know that my parents are miserable, but also because I realise how their limiting beliefs are making them miserable.

Good for you for realizing that divorce can be right.

[ar81]

It depends on what kind of divorce you have.
If it is a mutual agreement, because both discovered that their life plans are different, then there is no problem, just something as cold as a "contractual detachment".
A different case takes place when it happens because of resentment.
Resentment usually comes from communication problems and unintentional hurting each other.
Such problems usually come from parental role models, culture and getting married too young.

If it is because mutual agreement that's fine, they still can be friends.
If it is not, they will be happier once divorced, provided that their kids (if they have any) do not feel divorce will equal abandonment, and provided that kids do not blame themselves.
The toughest thing about divorce is what kids will feel.
And I bet that in the future, they may be friends no matter what.

Even if it was because of resentment, resentment get healed in time as forgiveness is embraced.
It may take some years, but eventually it will happen.

I do not feel so sorry about them.
I am sure the future will smile to them, even if it looks dark now.

Divorce is not uncommon, so there is no reason to feel bad about it.
I have helped many people, but usually I am unable to help myself.
This is the curse of those who help others.
They are humans too. Even superheroes are humans too.

[Holistic Star]

I dealt with a lot of feelings I had about divorce when Erin and Steve announced the decision to have an open relationship. I was triggered massively then about my own parents' divorce and had to work through a lot of feelings about that.

My parents had a very bitter divorce and are still not speaking to each other after 21 years apart! This colours my perception of divorce somewhat. An amicable divorce seems strange to me - although I like the idea of it, I find it hard to imagine. However it seems like I've already done a lot 'the work' on divorce from the polyamory announcement. At the time I thought I was being melodramatic assuming that S&E would divorce in the future but now I realise why I thought it was a possibility.

I'm not sure what to think about Steve and Erin's divorce. The message from Steve read very 'flat' to me - I couldn't feel any emotion in it. I guess it means I've dealt with a lot of what came up for me earlier this year. (And also, their relationship is none of my business) At the least it isn't triggering a load of stuff like it did earlier this year.


I guess today I've come to the realisation that:

- Steve and Erin are not my parents. Their relationship break-up is nothing to do with me.
- Just because they are divorcing doesn't mean everyone suddenly has to! (e.g. raw food, polyphasic sleep, polarising etc)
- Just because my parents had a bitter divorce, doesn't mean Steve and Erin will.
- Just because my parents used me to score cheap points off each other, doesn't mean Steve and Erin will


I haven't come to the realisation yet that divorce can be joyful. Thanks for that reminder Michelle - because that is something I would never have thought of working towards. Right now I see it as something that can be just about tolerated. I obviously have more work to do.

[Bing Wu]

My parents have talked about divorce since I was 3 years old... and now 21 years later, they're still together. They say they didn't want to break up the family, wanted my sister and me to have a stable home. And until I was in my teens I didn't want my family split up either...

My home was also one of short fuses... I never knew when my mother, for instance, would blow up and go on a violent destructive rampage around the house. I knew when my father would behave in such a way that it would trigger a violent episode in my mother, but there was always a *delay* before she burst while the feelings built up and festered... it was always agonizing to wait for the moment.

Looking back I think it would have been better for them to split up. But my biggest concern always was, and still is, how my mother will make out and support herself post-divorce. She grew up in a very traditional society, married at age 20... can she cope? And what happens to my sister, who's still a minor. I projected many of these same concerns onto Steve and Erin's divorce when I read about it.

It's not the divorce itself, but what each person in the couple does afterward. If they take bold strides towards building a new life, then great... but what if they don't?

[ar81]

My parents divorced. It was the best course of action.
They are happier now.

They both have my support, but I also see that a brighter future will be waiting for them.

[cacheborn]

Well, I have had no bad experiences with divorce. Never been married and parents were together (not very happy, I may add). But as I see the relationships around me, I am beginning to believe less and less in marriage. It seems like an artificial thing. If you want to be with someone, why not just do it? Why do you need a binding contract?

As for Steve and Erin, I do not feel comfortable commenting on it. First, it's their life, Period. They have been nice enough to let us know and explain, but to discuss/judge/comment on it, somehow I feel as if I am intruding. Further, IMO, they are the few of the very conscious people on this planet, so I am sure they are doing what's right for them and their children.

Yes, it was a shock. But it also made me realize that personal growth is not easy. Sometimes, you have to take decisions that require courage, that make you sad. It encouraged me to be more courageous in my own life.

Incidentally, why do we feel sorry? Do we want everyone to live happily ever after, just like in the movies?

[seeker5]

I did initially find myself relatively and easily accepting the divorce between Steve and Erin. I absolutely did not see this coming at all and had no idea anything of this magnitude was coming along. I didn't feel the sadness that a lot of people seemed to have felt.

I had a lot of pain come up during the polyamory announcement that I think I dealt with a lot of stuff back then. But now, after the divorce has sink in, I find myself kind of unconsciously hoping that Steve and Erin will have their time apart and then that they will get back together. Maybe not in a live-in situation, but in a manner where they can be in a relationship with each other.

I felt that same way for many years after my parents divorced, wishing they would get back together, although with them, I wanted them to live back together.

Hmmm. Yeah, I'm gonna have to address that part of me. .

[lifetimelearner]

I actually felt relief when I heard it was to be amicable

that was one thing I wish I could have changed for my children 7 years ago when I left my husband

separation from a parent is not easy -but if any parents can make it work I am sure Steve and Erin can

[ar81]

Steve and Erin are humans.
Humans are exposed to any possible situation humans may have in their lives.
No one can be safe from pain. It hits from time to time.
They were rescuers for many people, and there are times when rescuers need to be rescued.

As in an emergency situation, a rescuer could not perform CPR upon himself. He may need another rescuer. It would be pointless and silly for a rescuer to try first aid upon himself. Same happens with emotional situations. There are situations where rescuers need to be rescued too. There is no shame in that.

There is no point in trying to show stoicism. Divorce hits hard in the short term, and there is a sensation of failure, which is also a sensation of mourning of the past that is gone, and there is some sort of uncertainty about future, plus some sense of loneliness. It is not just easy to see an empty bed, or to tackle with memories.

But I am sure they made their best decision.
We are with you both. I know how much divorce hurts.
And in a few years, when the mourning process had passed, you will see yourselves as a bright star again.

[Michelle]

Just a reminder: This thread was not created to necessarily discuss the Pavlina's divorce but moreso to discuss our own personal emotional reactions and/or beliefs on the topic which may have risen to the surface as a result of their announcement.

[The Big D]

Something about their divorce rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it was the poly stuff. I found myself angry at Steve which is odd since I don't know him personally.

I don't have a family history of divorce or any baggage around the topic.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by The Big D

Something about their divorce rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it was the poly stuff. I found myself angry at Steve which is odd since I don't know him personally.

I don't have a family history of divorce or any baggage around the topic.

Maybe it's because you have a family history of not being divorced, and thus having someone divorce is an afront to what you believe family life to be about?

[The Big D]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Maybe it's because you have a family history of not being divorced, and thus having someone divorce is an afront to what you believe family life to be about?

Maybe. Or now that I think about it may be about my maternal grandmother's divorce. She was batshit insane (if later behavior was any indication), and I would have divorced her too, but it worked out poorly for my mother.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by The Big D

Maybe. Or now that I think about it may be about my maternal grandmother's divorce. She was batshit insane (if later behavior was any indication), and I would have divorced her too, but it worked out poorly for my mother.

Ah, that would make sense. So, this is a good opportunity to work through your anger so you can let it go.

[The Big D]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Ah, that would make sense. So, this is a good opportunity to work through your anger so you can let it go.

Possibly. A little bit of anger about a true injustice can have a purpose though.

[ellie]

The day my parents got divorced was like a big relief (18 years old)...I was wanting it to happen since the age of 8...or when I knew my father didn't love my mother. Why stay in something that's not what you want?

My parents weren't entierly miserable in their marriage, I knew they cared for eachother it was not enough, and needed to grow on their own.

My parents didn't have a bitter divorce, but they we'rent chummy chummy ...but mainly just because they have moved on. My mum wouldn't care if she bumped into my dad and the same with my dad, they would be amicable around each other and they both ask how each are doing from time-to-time through me

Even before my parents divorced, I had a strong feeling about what I thought about marriage and relationships, so I don't think it help enlighten me...but it did show me what I suspected, that my parents are happier on their own.

I really have never grasped the concept of marriage, it's not path I assume I will go down.

[ar81]

My parents also came from families that did not know what divorce was.
It is not that divorce happens in "evil families". No family is safe against divorce.

It happens when life plans of people are not compatible in one way or another.

World changes, so the rules that were useful for your parents are not useful for you. So every time you engage you are having such a risk.

I really did not like when people judged my family because of divorce years ago. It was a cliche. As I said, rescuers need to be rescued at some point.

I have had wise people around, in this life, who at a certain time had a situation that required my advise or my support. I discovered that sometimes wisdom come when you see other people's mistakes, but also when you pass through an experience.

One could only feel disappointed if you think an author is a god, a legend, who is above human experiences. I do believe that this situation could be a test for many people around here, so we will see how supportive they are, and how likely to label and judge people.

If I had support, the least I could do is to support those who helped me.

If you see the lives of psychiatrists and psychologists, they also may experience many situations other people have. The only difference is that they have more information.

[theorique]

I felt a brief burst of surprise when I first read Steve's blog post - I was pleased to see that there was a new post up, but the notion of 'Separation' didn't immediately register in my mind in the context of marriage. I felt like his writing was kind of matter-of-fact, and emotionally flat, but it got the facts across.

I was divorced about five years ago (separated about half a year earlier) and while it was a pretty difficult experience for me leading up to the decision, and then for about a year afterward, enough time has passed where the experience doesn't have strong emotional resonance for me any more. My ex and I didn't have children and it was a sad but ultimately amicable parting. With the benefit of perspective and time, I have come to view it as a starter marriage where at least one of the parties (specifically, I) was far too young and immature to be in that situation.

For a while afterward, I viewed myself as almost 'tainted' or 'damaged' in relationships, and while I wouldn't conceal the fact of my past marriage, I tended not to bring the subject up unless asked direct questions. My feelings were especially complex when friends and associates would get engaged, which was pretty common since I am in a demographic where a lot of people are making that decision. I felt especially alien and awkward when there was a joyous announcement of an engagement, and I felt like I was the 'bad example' haunting what was otherwise a happy occasion. That's not been an issue lately - I feel completely comfortable in situations with engaged people and with the subject of engagement, and it's much more comfortable than it was for me even only a year ago.

I'm not completely sure where I stand now on the concept of getting remarried. Even now, five years later, I don't feel a strong compulsion to 'settle down' or 'get serious' with anyone else. I think that if I were to enter a marriage contract again, it would only be after several more years of dating experience. At this point in my life I have been enjoying meeting new people and being social, extroverted and outgoing in a way that I never experienced when I was married. (Not to say that married people can't be extremely social, just that that was not my experience - I felt that my own marriage placed a lot of barriers in the way of the lifestyle that I wanted to lead and the experiences that I wanted to have in life.)

-jack

[ar81]

Originally Posted by Gazzali

I think all divorce happens from one missing link : absence of love . If there is love there is marriage. In this respect, perhaps i will like to share my article with you here

No. It is not absense of love. It is a problem of life plans or a matter of managing personal differences. There are many stereotypes around divorce. Only those who have seen it closely understand it.

Most of people think it is lack of love. So the kids are "offsprings of lack of love" or "incarnation of evil" and this is how people cliches end up rejecting divorced people and their sons.

The fact that they managed to divorce peacefully tells me that all the knowledge on self-help was put into practice. Divorce may not be avoided, but the way it is done is what is important. Those who have not witnessed divorce will not understand.

Marriage is just a social contract. Love is a different thing. Love comes when you want the other person to grow.

In the past I lived with a woman, not yet married. She discovered in time that her life plan did not call for marriage, so we did not marry. But it could have taken longer, and then I would have had a friendly divorce. It was not that we did not love each other, it was that life plans made a partnership not viable anymore. We are still friends and I wish her the best and I am sure she does too.

They need our support, not being rejected, not a judgment.

Judging divorce as lack of love is just like judging biochemical mental unbalance as "posessed by the devil". I am sorry if I am being harsh here. I have seen social rejection towards divorced people, and when you do, you realize how unfair it is.

[carenkh]

This has certainly brought up a lot for me - child of divorced parents, divorced myself. Actually, legally separated, but not yet legally divorced.

I really appreciate Michelle and HolisticStar's posts - they helped remind me that the feelings I'm having aren't caused by Steve & Erin, they're caused by my beliefs.

Some beliefs I carry:

Divorce is painful and difficult.

Divorce is a copout, for people unable and unwilling to go deeper in their relationship.

Divorce harms children to their core.

It's more meaningful to do the work necessary to stay together joyfully, than it is to leave.

Divorced people are selfish and immature.

Wow, that's some heavy baggage, huh? I'm grateful for the reminder that this is stuff *I* carry, I don't need to use those beliefs to judge Steve or Erin.

I've been feeling sadness about the separation since I first read Steve's post. I have a feeling the sadness isn't about their situation at all. How can it be? I'm not there with them, I'm not intimate in their lives.

I'm also grateful for this opportunity to look at those beliefs, and drop the ones that aren't serving me. (probably all of 'em!)

[seeker5]

I realized today I see divorce as failure.

A breakup in a non-marriage relationship to me isn't failure because you haven't promised to live t'ill death. Thus a non-marriage relationship that ends is ok because a relationship doesn't have to last t'ill death.

But when you set out to marry and you divorce, it's like you've failed you aimed to do something. Perhaps there is a better way to look at it.

[ar81]

Originally Posted by seeker5

I realized today I see divorce as failure.

A breakup in a non-marriage relationship to me isn't failure because you haven't promised to live t'ill death. Thus a non-marriage relationship that ends is ok because a relationship doesn't have to last t'ill death.

But when you set out to marry and you divorce, it's like you've failed you aimed to do something. Perhaps there is a better way to look at it.

There is frustration, which gives the idea of failure.
People married with an expectation.
If there was no love, there would be no frustration.

I see it more like mourning, because there are feelings of pain.
You wouldn't go to a funeral to tell people that they do not love.
Same applies to a divorce. Divorce carries a lot of pain, which may be mistaken with failure.

[Veehcirra]

Divorce is such a painful process for anyone! Very heartbreaking! Why is the rate of divorce higher now than it was like a century ago?

I have to say anyone who rises out of divorce and especially a nasty lives life purposively!

It's like experiencing a new death experience!!

[ButterflyWoman]

Because this thread is so old and the event that inspired it was sorted out long ago, I'm going to close this thread. Feel free to start another thread about divorce if it's pertinent to your life, but as this one starts out being about Steve and Erin, it seems appropriate to let that rest. They're doing well, and so are their children.