dealing with humiliation in court.

[blossom]

Hi. I wanted to vent about an experience I had this morning. If anyone wants to make a comment feel free, but I'm not writing it specifically to ask for advice or anything, more just to get it off my chest as it was somewhat distressing for me, and I'm at work now and can't really talk about it with anyone, and the only person I know who is sensitive enough for me to be able to tell is overseas at the moment, so I kind of do need some support at the moment.

Here goes:

This morning I was forced to attend the magistrates court to appeal a series of tram fines that occured a few years ago when I was experiencing homelessness as well as PTSD from being attacked by my housemate, out of the blue, over something so ridiculous I still can't believe it happened!
I was given legal aid, which is basically a free lawyer, to help me, and she spoke with me prior to my case being heard, where I disclosed information to her that is very private about my circumstances and the reasons for my PTSD and depression prior to those fines. The last few years have been REALLY hard, and it was already wierd enough to be forced to tell a complete stranger about it in this context. What was REALLY humiliating though, was that when it came time for my case to be heard, she spoke for me in front of about 25 people, who I didn't know and gave all the details I had disclosed to her...basically telling my sad story to all and sundry, which I know was necessary for my case, but it was just so humiliating and I couldn't look at the judge at all, I felt so ashamed. Having a stranger tell another stranger about my sexual assualt years ago and being beating up by my own father and thrown out to live in a D.V shelter, and then moving to a new city and ending up homeless while trying to find and keep work while all this instability was happening...and I had no control over what was happening in this courtroom either. So it was pretty surreal to then see everyone feel sorry for me and , whilst I'm grateful that I had the fines dismissed and revoked and it all worked out well for me financially, it was emotionally very distressing to sit there and listen to her read out all these events which I am still struggling to come to terms with. I left feeling pretty dissociated, and had to go straight to work, so there was no time to really sit down and talk to someone about it.
I feel a bit more grounded now, and better for letting it out, but it has made me feel a bit depressed now. I don't like the way these court hearings are held in a public forum, where everyone lots of people, there for their own resons, are privy to hearing a persons private information and experiences. I know I will probably never see any of those people again, but, as I am a pretty inroverted person, it is somewhat horrifying for me that this was disclosed, and what was even wierder, was that there were all these people who worked for the courts, sitting in front of me, and they were all acting like it was nothing and as though it wasn't happening...like I wasn't even there really. I could tell the judge could see it was a serious case, and not just someone making it up to get out of paying a few fines, though I'm sure people have used a story like mine to do just that before, so , in a way I feel happy that they believed me...I'm pretty cynical about the legal system, so it was uplifting to see compassion there.
Anyway, I know this was a bit of a ramble...thanks for reading...or not!

[ar81]

Legal processes re victimize victims, humiliation may take place too.
Legal processes are in my opinion a bit inhuman, a game of words, not even about justice or truth.
I am sorry to hear that.
I think you might need to focus on surviving the process.
There will be time to cry when it is over. Until then you need to be strong if you are to succeed.

[WordKeeper]

Blossom - what a disempowering experience. Bizarrely the remedy you sought through the justice system actually participated in some of the same powerless, demeaning actions that had originially victimized you.

It is all past for you now and as you continue to gain a foothold I suspect that someone "exposing" you in the future will not have the same devastating effect as it did today.

You are growing and healing but such positive moves are not without pain. Don't let this miserable experience keep you deterred from focusing on what is good.

You won the case. Keep you thoughts on that.

Best of luck to you. You are resilient and you will pull yourself through.

[rawxstasy]

I am so sorry for what you had to go through. I had to go through a similar situation. (not as bad as yours though)

I was getting a restraining order against my now ex husband. He sexually assaulted me and basically my advocate had to tell about the whole story in detail in court. It was so embarrassing. However, since then I have been able to move past it.

I know you weren't looking for advice but I have been able to overcome PTSD and disassociation and I hope this can help you.
I would suggest reading Eckart Tolle's books "the Power of Now" and "A New Earth" I believe that when we face our thoughts and emotions, many mental disorders can be overcome.

Congratulations for being able to get back on your feet (as best you can) I know you will be successful in whatever you do.

[The Cloud]

You have to come to terms with what happened to you eventually. What happened in court was probably for the best, since you've been trying to keep this all secret like it's something to be embarrassed about. You don't have to shout it on the mountain, but anything you actively try to keep secret is going to cause you suffering. You're unhappy, not because bad things happened to you, but because you are making those bad things important constructs that you need to build your life around.

[blossom]

Thanks to all who have offered supportive words on this thread. I really appreciate it.

It was really awful, and now it is over.
I felt better for getting it out, though I realized afterwards that I had done the same thing and exposed my story to strangers...I think though that the difference is I had the control over who I tell about it, which I didn't at the time. I have just been resting and coccooning in my sanctuary at home, and a good friend called that night, so I got to speak about it with someone who really empathized with me, and that helped alot, as have your comments.

The cloud: I think I get what you are saying, although it's not like I have made it a secret or anything, I think you assumed that? My friends know about what I went through. The point is I had no control over what or who was told about it, and that was the embarrassing and humiliating part for me. I just had to sit there while someone I didn't know basically used my story to get lenience from the judge. Ontop of this, I had an oppinion in my belief system, which I now know came directly from my mother, that to use your sad story as 'leverage' to get out of facing the music or paying fines, is 'distasteful' to say the least, so this was an added whammy, but my friend helped me to realize that there is nothing wrong with telling the truth to help change a situation which would otherwise cause even more stress to me! I now agree with this way of thinking and have managed to relinquish my mothers oppinions from my mind...so it has been a triumph in more than one way for me. It was a pretty huge growth spurt this weekend for sure.
Thanks again...

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by blossom

The cloud: I think I get what you are saying, although it's not like I have made it a secret or anything, I think you assumed that? My friends know about what I went through. The point is I had no control over what or who was told about it, and that was the embarrassing and humiliating part for me. I just had to sit there while someone I didn't know basically used my story to get lenience from the judge. Ontop of this, I had an oppinion in my belief system, which I now know came directly from my mother, that to use your sad story as 'leverage' to get out of facing the music or paying fines, is 'distasteful' to say the least, so this was an added whammy, but my friend helped me to realize that there is nothing wrong with telling the truth to help change a situation which would otherwise cause even more stress to me! I now agree with this way of thinking and have managed to relinquish my mothers oppinions from my mind...so it has been a triumph in more than one way for me. It was a pretty huge growth spurt this weekend for sure.
Thanks again...

A secret is something you need control of. You told your friends because you trust that they aren't going to tell anyone else, so you could still retain at least the illusion of control. Your lawyer took that control away and gave it to an entire courtroom full strangers. That's when it truly stopped being a secret.

Anyways, it sounds to me like you've gotten over it and learned a lot from the experience. I'm glad this secret can't cause you any more harm.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by blossom

...
I think though that the difference is I had the control over who I tell about it, which I didn't at the time.

...
The point is I had no control over what or who was told about it, and that was the embarrassing and humiliating part for me. I just had to sit there while someone I didn't know basically used my story to get lenience from the judge.
...

Well, actually, you HAD control over it. You decided to tell your lawyer, and you did not tell her she couldn't use it in your defense.

I can understand that you found the experience humiliating, but this is not necessarily so. In a sense, you choose to feel humiliation over it. Some other people might have made the choice to gloat over it ('see how pityful I am'), or just be neutral ('this is what it is, no right or wrong').

If for whatever reason you would go to court again, what could you do different?

[blossom]

Yes, I see what you are getting at Spirit. I guess since it was my first time ever in court, I did not realize I would have to sit and have my private business broadcast to all the people there, even though I have seen t.v court trials and there are always lots of people in the courtroom...I just didn't know it was like that in real life...now I know what goes on, and I did know that I was giving the lawyer my story and she would be relaying it to the judge and the court staff...but I didn't realize all the other people who were there for their own fine appeals would be present! Since I don't know them or really care what they think of me, it probably was an over-reaction to be embarrassed and there was no real need for that, and it was pretty revealing to me as I didn't realise I felt so much shame still about these things...I thought I was over it...but I guess not, so it was good in that sense as it showed me that I still need to do some work on releasing these feelings... so, I guess if I had to do it again, I would be in a better position to be able to take a neutral stance since I'd be more prepared for it, and I would also ask the lawyer what would happen in court and if I could request that the people who were not relevant to my case be asked to wait outside or not? I would definately ask more questions. I guess I expected that she would inform me of the process before hand, but I guess she aassumed I knew what would happen. Maybe just prepare a bit more for it I guess. Thanks

As far as it all being a big secret...I don't think of it that way. I think it is my perogative to choose who I want to tell, and yes have some control over that, as it is my private business. These days there is no privacy, and I don't see how that is a good thing. Why should I want to tell the whole world about my hard luck story...noone really cares anyway, and I'd either be met with a response of pity from people I don't even know, which doesn't even help me, or I'd be met with quiet indifference, which only serves to remind me that noone really gives a damn...so either way, it's not what I NEED, and that's what is most important to me!
For my own self-protection I see it as important to be careful who I tell, since their reactions and words can be helpful or unhelpful, and since most people are so insensitive, it's only going to make it worse for me if I tell the wrong people! That's not an illusion...words can hurt or heal, and I choose to share info with people who are more likely to be soothing when I am faced with harsh or brutal experiences. I think that is totally understandable. It's not a question of telling my friends because I know they aren't going to tell anyone...it's not really about that for me, it's about telling the RIGHT people who will help me through it! But thankyou for your well-wishes The Cloud.

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by blossom

As far as it all being a big secret...I don't think of it that way. I think it is my perogative to choose who I want to tell, and yes have some control over that, as it is my private business. These days there is no privacy, and I don't see how that is a good thing. Why should I want to tell the whole world about my hard luck story...noone really cares anyway, and I'd either be met with a response of pity from people I don't even know, which doesn't even help me, or I'd be met with quiet indifference, which only serves to remind me that noone really gives a damn...so either way, it's not what I NEED, and that's what is most important to me!
For my own self-protection I see it as important to be careful who I tell, since their reactions and words can be helpful or unhelpful, and since most people are so insensitive, it's only going to make it worse for me if I tell the wrong people! That's not an illusion...words can hurt or heal, and I choose to share info with people who are more likely to be soothing when I am faced with harsh or brutal experiences. I think that is totally understandable. It's not a question of telling my friends because I know they aren't going to tell anyone...it's not really about that for me, it's about telling the RIGHT people who will help me through it! But thankyou for your well-wishes The Cloud.

I agree that you shouldn't go around telling every undeserving stranger the most intimate details in your life. I'm just trying to illuminate the difference between privacy and secrecy; privacy is a matter of choice, and secrecy is a matter of fear. You keep things private because you don't want everyone to know, but you keep them secret because you are afraid of everyone knowing. As long as you keep a secret you have to be afraid, and as long as you are afraid you are stressed, and prolonged stress is both physically and psychologically damaging. So privacy is healthy, but secrecy is harmful.

[blossom]

I agree that secrecy is harmful and keeps us sick! It was not so much that I was wanting to keep it a secret from these people...I just value my privacy and did not enjoy having that violated at that time. Maybe we got our wires crossed about that?

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by blossom

I agree that secrecy is harmful and keeps us sick! It was not so much that I was wanting to keep it a secret from these people...I just value my privacy and did not enjoy having that violated at that time. Maybe we got our wires crossed about that?

I guess I assumed that secrecy was the issue when you said it was REALLY humiliating to have it revealed. Was the problem that your private matters were being used to manipulate the system into giving you something? I'm not trying to disagree with you about your own feelings; I suspect I've been speaking under false assumptions.

[blossom]

It wasn't really to manipulate the system to GIVE me something, more that she was using my story to get me out of paying fines...and yes, as I mentioned earlier, it was a belief that I took on of my mothers that to use your story to get out of something like this is distasteful, so it didn't feel totally comfortable for me, and I have since been able to see that that isn't how I think about it...that's HER thoughts, not mine. I don't think there is anything wrong with telling the truth in order to appeal a series of fines (like a $1000 dollars that I accrued whilst homeless and recovering from PTSD) to be revoked for special circumstances like mine.
I had this belief long before I had ever experienced much of life and it's inevitable hardships...so it was a judgement that I found myself on the other end of, curiously!

[Andrew Gubb]

Sounds pretty tough. But maybe you could try to take the good out of this. I think people hearing your story can make you stronger. You no longer feel like you're hiding from the truth. You have less weight on your shoulders. And they didn't judge you for it.

[blossom]

Thanks but I never felt like I was hiding from the truth. As I mentioned a few times, I have told friends and my family knew about what happened...though they didn't really know how to help. I also have spoken to counsellors for years, so it's not like I've been trying to keep this all inside...I am very into being as honest as possible and don't like to keep secrets. I have found the good in all this, as I also mentioned. I was able to let go of imposed oppinions of my mothers that were causing me added distress and I managed to not have to pay the fines. Plus, when I was in the shelter, I took full advantage of the opportunitis they afforded me and am studying to be an ESL teacher...so I was homeless and ended up with a career that allows me to travel the world and be put up in my own apartment plus get paid for doing what I do naturally...speak english! I found a great new home eventually, and learnt how to reach out for support when I need to , which was a huge issue for me. It's been a really transforming experience all in all, as hard as it was!

[Brutha]

If I would come into a situations like that I accept that's an experience that's outside of my comfort zone.
Personal growth comes from being outside of your comfort zone.

[blossom]

Then I most certainly have personally grown alot!

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Sounds pretty tough. But maybe you could try to take the good out of this. I think people hearing your story can make you stronger. You no longer feel like you're hiding from the truth. You have less weight on your shoulders. And they didn't judge you for it.

Plus, those people hearing your story may have benefitted from hearing your story. Solved some issues for themselves, practiced compassion with you, got new insights, whatever. Why not give them that possibility?

[blossom]

Well thats possible. Thanks, I hadn't looked at it that way.