93 Years Old and Still Afraid to Die

[Jim]

Death has always been my number one fear. Not public speaking, not women, not dogs with big teeth.

Apparently a 93 year old blogger has these same fears. You would hope that if you've lived that long you would come to terms with your own demise, but apparently it's not always the case.

Read his blog entry here:
Don To Earth: It Bothers Me That I Have To Go

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by Jim

Death has always been my number one fear. Not public speaking, not women, not dogs with big teeth.

Wanna trade? I'm not afraid of death, it just doesn't seem like that big of a deal. It sucks that I won't live to see the cool stuff that we'll create and get to see hundreds of years from now (space ships, colonies on other planets, androids.. aliens?). But that's pretty much the only thing I'm sad about missing when I die. That is, if life doesn't continue in some way after the physical portion is over. I haven't seen anyone conclusively prove it either way so far.

[openeyes]

I'm not sure people will always HAVE to die, at least not from old age. While futurists/transhumanists such as Ray Kurzweil may be overly optimistic (or perhaps their estimates will end up being conservative ...), radical extension of lifespan seems entirely possible to me, and I feel that, being only 22 now, barring accidents I'm apt to make it to at least 90 naturally, and a lot could happen in ~70 years with technology's rapid advances.

That said, I'm generally okay with death, at least my own, as I've already been close to passing on, spent time in the hospital with doctors not knowing if I'd pull through, and then somehow fully recovered to the point that tests look as if nothing ever happened. For now, I'm here to develop myself, to experience life and see what happens, to become more adept at operating outside my body before fully leaving it.

In fact I think that death may be less necessary if/when people can leave their bodies at will. To more fully embrace and live in my body will also be good. I basically keep going in order to see what'll happen next, and what the next few centuries will hold should be quite interesting.

[Cron]

It sounds like he led a life of regret ( not having done more ) so it is hard for him to let go. I'm haunted by some of the same thoughts. I'm glad he put up his blog, so I can take what he says as a head's up.

[norbert]

I've been afraid of death all my life but after loosing my best friend at the age of 20 (me being 23) I realized I already got much more than he (and many others) did. I am not afraid of death anymore. I'm glad to follow him when the time comes but until then I feel I have to do my best to serve this planet.

[Cron]

I don't think I am afraid of death, I just don't want to go :-).

[ReallyGoodIdeas]

Good point Cron, a lovely old psychic friend of mine once said that it's those who haven't lived who are afraid to die.

If you consider that we are spiritual beings in a human body (something I took away from Wayne Dyer's book on Intention) death just means swapping bodies. I believe the essential me-ness will not die, I'm essentially energy ( or love as I've recently figured out). Once you drop the belief that you die, you have much more courage to live to your fullest.

It's paradoxical but very freeing.

I once had a v nasty accident (came off a motorbike at 80mph, cartwheeled for ages!) and was sure I was going to die. The thought wasn't scary in itself, I just didn't want the pain.

Well, I didn't die, I got the pain instead! ;-)

My thoughts anyway!

joy to you
Hazel

[Lynn 007]

Absoultley no qualms when it is my time to go. Although I hope it isn't tomorrow or anytime soon as I've been having a blast while here but I have so much more to do and experience.

I'm convinced when my time is up I'll be meeting up with friends and family that have already gone and I'm looking forward to catching up with them.

One main reason I think this is when my dad passed away of a heart attack in his sleep 15 years ago, he came to "visit me" the day before his furneral. Needless to say I was very upset at this loss but I heard a quiet voice in the middle of the night asking me to wake up and look at the end of the bed. I woke up and there was my dad. He was wearing a red golf shirt and khaki's. He had a huge smile on his face and looked so content. He said "Lynn, don't be sad I'm gone - everything is good here. I'm here with Liz (his sister he lost when he was 16) and grandma and grandpa. Please don't be upset but I have to go, they need a fourth for a game of cards".

Of course the day of the funeral I wasn't sure if my experience would upset my mom or reassure her. After the service I asked my mom if Dad ever played cards? I never met my grandparents or aunt. She said yes Dad's family were avid card players. I told her what happend and she was very happy to hear of my experience. I'm not sure why I had the expereince (I have six siblings) but I am so thankful for it.

Although that was 15 years ago I remember it, like it was yesterday.

Still not even close to being ready but I want to meet people I never had a chance to meet when they were here. Which reminds me I better put on my list of things to do "learn more card games".

Lynn

[Brien]

Two quotes come to mind when I consider death:

"Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome."
-Isaac Asimov

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
-Epicurus

On the other hand, what I am most afraid of is facing a slow death like my grandfather. He is one of the men I most respect. He was extremely successful, intelligent and experienced. Now all he says is "When I was in the war and death was all around me, my greatest wish was to have to chance to live out my life, to die an old man. My wish was granted and I regret it deeply."

I really dont know how to take that. He was very young in the war (Spanish Civil War). It seems like he doesn't care about anything he did, the things he saw, the people he loved and the family he founded. He just wishes he was dead, even if it means not living most of his life.

[nurikabe]

Amazon.com: Many Lives, Many Masters: The True Story of a Prominent Psychiatrist, His Young Patient, and the Past-Life Therapy That Changed Both Their Lives: Books: Brian L. Weiss

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Brien

"When I was in the war and death was all around me, my greatest wish was to have to chance to live out my life, to die an old man. My wish was granted and I regret it deeply."

(sigh) How depressing...

[Reyv]

Death? Bah! I laugh in the face of death! ... And then I crawl under a bed and stay really quiet until it goes away.

I recall a non-lucid dream I had a while back wherein I realized I was going to be dead in a matter of seconds, and there was absolutely nothing I could do about it (think thermonuclear device). There was no fear, no panic, no nothing. I simply understood what was happening and accepted it. My only thought was "I wonder what being disintegrated feels like". At the time, my model of reality was that I was going to step into non-existence. I had no problem with it.

Through my current model of reality, my thoughts would've been "I guess I'm going home", and possibly "Reassemble for debriefing and cocktails at 1900 hours NPT (Non-Physical Time)".

[Sekou]

Hrm.

I've lived a life largely without religious and spiritual influences, though that does not mean I am without the moral compass they provide. I have a very rational, logical mind, though that does not mean I deny what is often called "spiritual" or do not find it enlightening. Spiritual to me is a re-organization or re-structuring of the mind in order to better deal with common human conditions. I very often identify with Steve Pavlina's line of thinking and have come to love the site -- I know I live a very peaceful and harmonious life because of my interest in self-improvement.

None of my beliefs are set in stone -- I am always open to the idea that I am wrong or that there is room for improvement. I do, however, have two beliefs that resonate deep within me: 1. death means annihilation, 2. everyone realizes this and finds a way to cope with it.

Terror management theory (Terror management theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) treads into these murky waters.

I do not mean to "judge" anyone here for having differing beliefs. I am not attempting to provoke anyone. I am sharing my perspective of what I think is the truth.

That said, I feel the only logical form of action to the conscious acceptance of annihilation is to fight against it. And to be honest, even if you believe death is just a transition, there are no valid reasons for not wanting additional life.

There is ample research that is starting to come to light about aging. It is more or less the accumulation of damage overtime that weakens the body and prevents it from functioning optimally. The body becomes more and more prone to a fatal malfunction. This makes sense, as it should -- I am always confused that so many people can accept death as "given," that it happens without preventable or treatable reasons. Deaths are prevented all of the time -- there is no sense in thinking that it WILL happen at some unknown time in the future. "Natural" death is a myth -- all deaths have a reasonable, explainable (scientific) causes.

I encourage anyone who is curious -- as I imagine everyone who reads Steve Pavlina should be -- to at least consider a differing opinion on death. That is -- precisely -- why I am here, because I am constantly searching for an alternative belief to the belief that I feel deep down in my core. The closest I have come in recent times is the possibility that consciousness is linked on some quantum level, though even if true, does not necessary guarantee against annihilation.

If you find that you immediately disagree with the idea of terror management, maybe ask yourself why.

There is nothing to lose by having an active interest in life extension -- living healthier mentally and physically yourself and encouraging it in others, as well. And being supportive of all bioscience technologies, or even technology in general. We need not box ourselves by stubbornly believing certain inevitebles or by being unimaginative thinking we know all there is to know about the nature of consciousness.

We are in a continuing journey in life -- why settle for any belief is there is reason to doubt? And as I've said, there is room to doubt annihilation -- but so far I have heard/read nothing that sounds "more true" to me. And even if I did, I would have no reason not to want to live life for as long as possible, as I am sure we all have great purposes to fufill.

So, that's my two cents. I hope everyone has a long, long... long, and fulfilling life.

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by Sekou

There is ample research that is starting to come to light about aging. It is more or less the accumulation of damage overtime that weakens the body and prevents it from functioning optimally. The body becomes more and more prone to a fatal malfunction. This makes sense, as it should -- I am always confused that so many people can accept death as "given," that it happens without preventable or treatable reasons. Deaths are prevented all of the time -- there is no sense in thinking that it WILL happen at some unknown time in the future. "Natural" death is a myth -- all deaths have a reasonable, explainable (scientific) causes.

I'm far from an expert in biology, but I remember reading that the reason we ultimately die is that there's a chromosome in our cells' DNA that gets shorter every time the cells split. Eventually when this chromosome is worn out cells can't split any further. Since they have a limited lifetime, eventually the body ends up dying as well. Of course death usually can be pinpointed to the failure of a specific organ or group of organs, but that doesn't mean that these organs didn't die from old age themselves.

[Sekou]

Originally Posted by Baltar

I'm far from an expert in biology, but I remember reading that the reason we ultimately die is that there's a chromosome in our cells' DNA that gets shorter every time the cells split. Eventually when this chromosome is worn out cells can't split any further. Since they have a limited lifetime, eventually the body ends up dying as well. Of course death usually can be pinpointed to the failure of a specific organ or group of organs, but that doesn't mean that these organs didn't die from old age themselves.

I'm no expert on biology, either and I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. If what you claim is true, and I have heard work is being done on the "biological clock" of cells, that sounds like a reason for death, doesn't it? You just explained part of "old age" as:

Originally Posted by Baltar

ultimately die is that there's a chromosome in our cells' DNA that gets shorter every time the cells split

Those cells didn't decide to just up-and-die because they reached some indeteriminate point known as "old age". There was a reason. You just explained a possible reason. Understanding that is a good step into changing it, yes?

So, I apologize, but I'm not sure what your point was (I mean no offense.)

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by Sekou

I'm no expert on biology, either and I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. If what you claim is true, and I have heard work is being done on the "biological clock" of cells, that sounds like a reason for death, doesn't it? <snip>

That's correct. It's just that you said this:

Originally Posted by Sekou

There is ample research that is starting to come to light about aging. It is more or less the accumulation of damage overtime that weakens the body and prevents it from functioning optimally.

I was trying to point out that it's not accumulated damage that causes aging and ultimately death, but rather the body's inability to regenerate/replace its aging and dying cells after a certain amount of time. Although I must say that I don't know what the current scientific stance is on these things. This is something I read a long time ago.

Originally Posted by Sekou

Those cells didn't decide to just up-and-die because they reached some indeteriminate point known as "old age". There was a reason. You just explained a possible reason. Understanding that is a good step into changing it, yes?

True, technically it's a scientific reason. But that essentially is "natural death" because it means that the body is designed to die after a certain amount of time. Meaning that it's not an accumulation of damage or disease that causes this. In other words if you kept someone in a cleanroom for their whole life they'd still die of old age.

Originally Posted by Sekou

So, I apologize, but I'm not sure what your point was (I mean no offense.)

No offense taken. I should've been more clear about which part of your post I was replying to.

[Sekou]

Originally Posted by Baltar

That's correct.

...

No offense taken. I should've been more clear about which part of your post I was replying to.

Sure, I suppose we can accept your explanation as an adequate way of describing "natural death." I'll concede the point that "natural death" can be taken to mean this, but I would dispute whether most people think of natural death in this fashion or that death is "programmed in" means it is irreversible or unavoidable. Having an explainable cause, we can work to treat it.

In other words, death is not "magic." In fact, with the universal desire to live/avoid pain and the principles of modern medicine as our guidelines, we can classify death as a disease. Other conditions are treated with the same intent: to reduce suffering and prevent death. It is a mystery why more attention has not been given in the past to the causes of "old age"/aging in general. Actually, that's my point, I think: its not a mystery, most people just "accept" it instead of realizing it for what it is.

And to be truthful, I believe that death results as a combination of the "biological clock," as well as accumulation of damage.

This is aside the point, of course and this discussion seems to be mostly about phraseology/terminology. In which case, I think we've come to an understanding, aside from my rambling off-topic.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Baltar

I'm far from an expert in biology, but I remember reading that the reason we ultimately die is that there's a chromosome in our cells' DNA that gets shorter every time the cells split.

That's the telomere, which essentially all cells/chromosomes have. Apoptosis/programmed cell death is when a cell can no longer divide. It's thought that telomerase can be added to telomeres to rejuvenate the cell and enable it to continue dividing. In fact that's part of what cancer cells do: their telomeres regrow. The challenge (one of them at least) is to rejuvenate the telomeres in a cell without having it turn cancerous.

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by openeyes

That's the telomere, which essentially all cells/chromosomes have. Apoptosis/programmed cell death is when a cell can no longer divide. It's thought that telomerase can be added to telomeres to rejuvenate the cell and enable it to continue dividing. In fact that's part of what cancer cells do: their telomeres regrow. The challenge (one of them at least) is to rejuvenate the telomeres in a cell without having it turn cancerous.

Thanks for clarifying that. In a way then finding a cure for cancer and the key to eternal life go hand in hand. If we can figure out how to rejuvenate the telomeres, we should also be able to figure out how to stop them from regrowing in cancer cells. Though in practice things are probably a lot more complicated.

[Brutha]

I find this video which deal about curing death of aging.

[esn]

Encouraging news Cheap, safe drug kills most cancers - health - 20 January 2007 - New Scientist


My wife is in remission for 7 years. Every year she has a mammogram, and we wait for the results. When the radiologist's letter arrives, I swallow hard and open it.

What is fear of death ?
With no skin in the game, it is easier to be brave.

Best Wishes,
Eric

[Liara Covert]

When my time comes, I'll welcome death as yet another great adventure.
I'm not trying to rush it. I believe we're all here in this life to realize certain things. We have opportunities to better ourselves and empower others. To what degree we take advantage of our circumstances varies greatly. Personally, I do not wish to take anything for granted. This life existence is too precious to me.

"The most precious gift we can offer others is our presence. When mindfulness embraces those we love, they will bloom like flowers.”
-Thich Nhat Hanh