Lies

[tempmail14]

A very close friend of mine is lying to me about something bcoz he cannot directly admit it to me. He's told me what's going on indirectly without admitting anything so I can't be sure. But I know he's lying & he knows I know. Our relationship is very strained. He's told me 'hypothetically' that I'm a 3rd party to the situation & therefore do not require an explanation. I'm upset. The lies, the deception, it all hurts. He knows I would support him but still he lies to me.

I never thought it'd be him, we've grown up together & have always been straight with each other. I don't know how to be supportive or just accept it (the way he's indirectly told me to). I don't know how to get away from this, without distancing myself from him. I never ever thought the day wud come when I wud have to distance myself from him.

Now I'm thinking in every relationship there shud be some distance so that these things don't affect u since they have nothing to do with you anyway.

Doesn't it affect every area when you're being deceptive in the most important area of your life? Won't that deception seep into every relationship that you have?

How do you deal with it when the people closest to you lie to you?

[WordKeeper]

You have a choice - you can opt for a moral highground or you can pick friendship. You don't say how old you are but I suspect you are under 30. There way a time that I would have unquestionably opted for the former but where I am in life now I can say unequivocally that my advice to you is to go for the friendship.

That said, how do you do it when you know he is lying and he won't admit it? You see him with compassion. There is some wound or weakness that let's him believe that it is a better choice for him. You see that it is not but if you view him with compassion rather than concern about his trustworthiness, you can rise above the situation and still protect yourself.

Be direct, let him know that you know that he is not being honest and that it gives you concern but that you have decided that your friendship is worth giving him some grace. Tell him you hope that he will see his way to the truth for his sake as well as your friendship.

Those are my thoughts.

[tempmail14]

hey WordKeeper,
Thanx for the quick reply. I really appreciate any advice that I can get on this. This is the 1st time I've been in a situation like this.

For me it's not abt the moral highground, I wud even support him in his lie bcoz he's one of my closest friends, it hurts bcoz he's lying to *me*. I feel like it's a reflection on our relationship, like even tho' he trusts me, he still won't let me be there for him in this situation. He says you should be there how he wants u to be there. My head understands all of that, but my heart is still hurting. I'm also reeling from the shock of his choice in this situation. I know that's a judgement, n I know I shudn't judge, but I just never thought .. sigh .. I just looked up to him so much ... maybe that's another reason he can't tell me .. He also says that someone in that situation, even if one other person knows, his life will change completely.

Trust has become an issue .. if he's capable of this .. I don't think I cud ever trust him. I'm also upset bcoz his choice has changed him, he's not the same fun person. A lot of his behaviour has changed towards me .. where he wud worry abt me n things like that .. now it seems like he doesn't notice or doesn't care anymore .. he's obviously preoccupied with his situation .. he's also hiding a number of things from me .. I see many of his choices where he chooses the others invovled in this situation over me .. all of that has also affected our relationship.

I cannot be direct with him bcoz he's made it clear that this is none of my business. He's trying so hard to keep it under wraps, I'm afraid that if I'm direct abt this I will lose him. He's too important to me, I cannot lose him. I'm thinking maybe some distance is a good thing but at the same time I never imagined that I wud ever have to distance myself from him. I'm obviously conflicted. What do I do?

I also look at him with compassion, I know how difficult this is for him .. I understand what may have led him to these choices .. I also know he has to follow his own path .. but I'm afraid for him .. I'm afraid his choice is going to lead him down a dark road where there's a lot of pain n sadness .. n since he doesn't want to tell anyone .. he's going to be going down that road alone.

He chooses to lie, it shud be his problem right? why has this become mine? I don't understand why I'm in pain?

I was fine not knowing anything .. y did this have to be revealed to me? am I supposed to do something? intervene? help? sigh .. what is the lesson here?

[WordKeeper]

It is hard to give advice from afar because subtleties and nuances make a difference but based on what you write this is what I suggest:

you, yourself say that you perhaps need to create some distance. That makes sense. Do it without closing the door. You can do it with sorrow over the path that he is taking with hopes that he will find the right path again in the future.

I suspect it hurts because he is a valuable friend and his actions are damaging that friendship. I must feel like a kind of betrayal and it is certainly a violation of trust. That is of course painful. Whatever happens, from your witing it is clear that your friendship has changed. I venture to suggest that you are mourning the friendship that you treasured as it was.

Give him distance and give him time but don't shut the door. It would be more of a surprise if this did NOT hurt.

[tempmail14]

thanx again for ur reply.

I guess the friendship has changed. I know that there is still a lot of love there but it seems some ppl no matter how they feel abt u r adamant abt doing what they want to do. period.

After this experience, I don't think I ever want to get close to anyone again. It's not worth it .. it only seems to distract u from ur own path .. I hv lost focus from what I'm supposed to do bcoz of this, while they haven't.

[marinik]

Originally Posted by tempmail14

After this experience, I don't think I ever want to get close to anyone again. It's not worth it .. it only seems to distract u from ur own path .. I hv lost focus from what I'm supposed to do bcoz of this, while they haven't.

Don't say that!!! You do want to get close! It is the essence of human relationships. As we get older some people go out of our lives and others come in. As we change people around us change. It is OK and it is normal. You will get to the point when you will be able to forgive this friend and understand in a way, maybe not condole but understand. It is just the path o attain wisdom.

[Dreamline]

Technically, it's only a reflection of him.

You are choosing to make it a reflection of you too. You can easily just choose to see your friend as temporarily misguided by some unknown cause, stop acting like you are victim to it all, and try to help him get back on track like a good friend would.

Your way definitely has more drama value, though, and many people are unknowingly addicted to this terrible substance called drama.

I cannot be direct with him bcoz he's made it clear that this is none of my business.

That is pretty definite, I would say. Now you have to decide, as a real friend, if you honor his right to live his own life, make his own choices and learn from his own consequences.

Just be there for him.

Jennifer

[WordKeeper]

Dreamline has a very good point.
I saw what Dreamline is point to but not a clearly.

You are focused on what your friends actions have done to you. Believe it or not, if you will shift your focus to your friend then you might be able to create enough space to continue being a friend - even if the shape of that friendship shifts.

(borrowed from another Pavlina poster.)
"In the beginning, the price of giving great love is risking that it won't be returned. Until you understand, of course, that great love is always returned. With interest." - Notes from the Universe

[GuideMySpirit]

I can relate to this quiet well, when I began my self development path I had to dis attach from some friends that were causing my path to be blocked in several ways. The friends that don't support you or think they them 'selfs' are more important for a certain matter, I believe is a blockage to your growth. This might even be a sign to move on to something else and get on with things. Steve has some good articles on ending long term relationships and others that relate to that. I personally wrote an article on this issue of attachment my self, Guide My Spirit - Grasping and Non-Attachment, along with others that relate to that one.

But it's up to you to decide there is always help through different sign in which you can see what the lesson here is for you, and to never feel alone because there are always people that are walking/walked in your shoes.

[tempmail14]

WordKeeper, marinik, Dreamline, GuideMySpirit, thanx for ur posts. I appreciate it.

As we get older some people go out of our lives and others come in.

I can't imagine my life without this friend. He's like family to me.

Believe it or not, if you will shift your focus to your friend then you might be able to create enough space to continue being a friend

I understand this.

even if the shape of that friendship shifts

this troubles me.

Technically, it's only a reflection of him. You are choosing to make it a reflection of you too. You can easily just choose to see your friend as temporarily misguided by some unknown cause, stop acting like you are victim to it all, and try to help him get back on track like a good friend would.

I actually know & even understand y he has chosen the path he has .. I can see it from his point of view bcoz he'd expressed some problems to me b4 & I foresaw where he was heading .. I know it's not about me .. I don't know y I'm having so much trouble with this. I guess it bothers me that this has changed our friendship .. strained it .. & also the fact that I really looked up to him .. I always thought he was strong enough to do the right thing .. now I don't know what the right thing is anymore. I think I'm also afraid that bcoz he knows that I know, it makes him uncomfortable & he'll push me aside. And the lying, that troubles me the most .. even tho' I understand it .. does that make any sense?

Now you have to decide, as a real friend, if you honor his right to live his own life, make his own choices and learn from his own consequences. Just be there for him

I do honor his right .. I am there for him .. I know this is none of my beeswax .. maybe we used to share everything b4 (ups, downs) but now that we've grown up, had different experiences .. I guess there r things ppl start keeping to themselves as they grow.

You do want to get close.

I dunno .. it's the closeness that has impaired my objectivity .. n I've ended up making this abt me .. not good.

It is just the path to attain wisdom

if this is a path to attain wisdom, it sucks. What am I supposed to do with all this wisdom?

This might even be a sign to move on to something else and get on with things. Steve has some good articles on ending long term relationships and others that relate to that

This is inconceivable to me, he's important to me.

I read somewhere that if u learn the lesson, things will get better .. but what is the lesson here?

"In the beginning, the price of giving great love is risking that it won't be returned. Until you understand, of course, that great love is always returned. With interest."

This saying is awesome .. but is it true?

[marinik]

The wisdom is there so you hurt less and understand more. People are just not perfect. They are not always doing the best they can. Specially when they are young.

And for then going out of your life... well it just is. And it is not the end of the world. You move on and other wonderful people come into your reality. I remember loosing a very good friend when I was 22. I thought I would never find another. It was so painful. But I did. More than 1 much more. She came back into my life for a while and then disappeared again. And it is OK. I forgave her a long time ago, but never really understood.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by tempmail14

I can't imagine my life without this friend. He's like family to me.

From a bigger, broader perspective.. we are all family.. just cause you don't know the guy on the street corner doesn't technically mean he's not family..

You can imagine your life without this friend!! and you can't even attempt to get this friend back if you push against it.. you see most of your words and deeds are about acceptance.. you see your friend has changed.. now you have 2 choices

1. Accept who he is now.. which may mean excepting worse situations and not always positive person type (from my understanding)
2. Accept that the person has changed and that you may have to drift for a while..

You’re not the only one in the boat of ahh crap.. a person I know has changed for the "worse" (and ohh yah that's a judgment in a way..) so I'll put it this way which is more neutral.. a good friend of mine has taken some serious steps backward and disempowered there life..

Originally Posted by tempmail14

I know it's not about me ..

This is incorrect.. this is all about YOU.. you are not accepting and you are not allowing.. you are RESISTING.. resistance just makes it worse.. you can't go around and resist because if you do you make your reality worse...

LET GO..

Each individual on the planet is our version of them.. a person that was dear to you has changed (this was agreed upon).. you need to accept the change.. and shoot for a "neutral" or positive perspective.. you need to accept and allow.. you know the truth.. You don't have a say in it anyway.. reflections/people are free to choose..

Only when you allow and accept can you even make a change to this reality.. any pushing anyway just makes the present stronger in a way..

Originally Posted by tempmail14

And the lying, that troubles me the most .. even tho' I understand it ..

You were right to diagnose your judging.. this statement all but says it.. you seem to have a "definition/belief" about lying.. probably why it "troubles you the most"

Understand from my perspective lying isn't that big of a deal period.. especially if someone out there forces you.. to tell them "what they want to hear" this could be the case of your friend to you..

Originally Posted by tempmail14

if this is a path to attain wisdom, it sucks. What am I supposed to do with all this wisdom?

Hopefully not repeat the same mistake next time.. or your doomed to repeat it every time.. till you get it right..

Originally Posted by tempmail14

I read somewhere that if u learn the lesson, things will get better .. but what is the lesson here?

The lesson.. what's the lesson??? ohh alright

The lesson is to be yourself no MATTER WHAT.. you are focused on the change/outside/others.. you should be focused and maintaining who you are.. you should not be allowing outside CIRCUMSTANCES to get in the way of being the best YOU (yah, I know it's not easy.. sometimes.. but that is the truth of any situation)

Be the best you, so you can be the best receiver of your reality.. and remember.. that friends can be a easy come, easy go thing.. try and remember that everyone here in this REALITY with you is special.. we are special just to be here.. there are no accidents.. and try and treat everyone as FAMILY and you will be making some upward steps.. and try and remember there 6 billion people on the planet finding a friend again isn't that impossible.. and LASTLY remember.. your friend may choose to come back into the positive/light but you MUST ALLOW that change.. you cannot force it with RESISTANCE..

Be the best you and "lead by example" your leadership in this scenario may allow your friend to change his course.. this is all you can really do anyway.. resistance is just going to make it worse.. LET GO, Release.. free yourself..

[tempmail14]

Thank you for your post.

Hopefully not repeat the same mistake next time.. or your doomed to repeat it every time.. till you get it right..

What was my mistake here?

[Lauxa]

Maybe he's trying to protect you by not putting you in a situation where you have to lie for him.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by tempmail14

Thank you for your post.

Your welcome..

Originally Posted by tempmail14

What was my mistake here?

Mistake.. there was no mistake.. from a higher perspective.. there are no mistakes.. what I'm suggesting is if presented with different or the same circumstances again.. hopefully you can rise above it that much quicker..

But yes, now I see the question your asking.. what was your mistake?

Your mistake was rolling in the mud if you will.. it was throwing your hands against the wall and having a temper tantrum.. your mistake was not instantly allowing and thinking you can change things via force/manipulation/action..

Your mistake was this.. "Circumstances don't matter! Only state of being matters"

Re-translated/interpreted.. "Things going on outside of you don't matter.. Only you keeping your head held up high, being the best you matters!" for that is the true power to change everything..

[tempmail14]

Thanx every1 for your posts. It was good to read everything n I understood that I need to accept the situation instead of resisting it. I also understand that I should not let what's happening on the outside affect me.

For now, I've shown my friend that I've accepted his situation & am not resisting it. He has shown me by his recent bold behaviour what is really going on .. so without him officially admitting anything he has made it clear that this is the truth.

However, since he knows that I know .. he's indirectly indicating that he doesn't want me in his life anymore. so this is the result of caring for someone unconditionally?

For months he tried to bring me over to his way of thinking, trying to convince me 'indirectly' that things like this were ok n finally in an emotional moment he admitted everything without actually saying that he was talking abt himself. If he hadn't done that, I wudn't hv known anything, even tho' I had my doubts. What I don't understand is .. y did he 'indirectly' tell me what was going on if he didn't want me to know in the 1st place?

Looks like this friendship that I valued so much is on it's way out. I invested so much of time (more than a decade), love, support into this relationship n now it looks like it's going to end.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by tempmail14

Looks like this friendship that I valued so much is on its way out. I invested so much of time (more than a decade), love, support into this relationship n now it looks like it's going to end.

Please don't see it negatively.. every experience is valid and beautiful in its own right.. you do not need to feel like you've lost something.. for only if you believe you've lost something, "lost something you will" (yoda voice )

I hope you can have unconditional love for your friend.. I still do (or at least do my best) I already know likely in the near future we will re-unite when he is in a better place.. I would not discount a re-union with your friend either.. for now you just need time apart.. separation so both of you can grow and be yourselves..

Originally Posted by tempmail14

y did he 'indirectly' tell me what was going on if he didn't want me to know in the 1st place?

Don't get hung up on semantics.. lies/truth/whatever they don't mean anything.. they are "ego" based ideas/judgments and shared beliefs..

Originally Posted by tempmail14

I also understand that I should not let what's happening on the outside affect me.

For now, I've shown my friend that I've accepted his situation & am not resisting it.

If you can do this.. Then all the world is yours This is one of the most important ways to be..

Try and reach for the "best feeling thought" and take the "path of least resistance" use these ideas if they can serve you..

I wish you love and luck

[Lauxa]

Originally Posted by tempmail14

For months he tried to bring me over to his way of thinking, trying to convince me 'indirectly' that things like this were ok n finally in an emotional moment he admitted everything without actually saying that he was talking abt himself. If he hadn't done that, I wudn't hv known anything, even tho' I had my doubts. What I don't understand is .. y did he 'indirectly' tell me what was going on if he didn't want me to know in the 1st place?

I would guess he did it because he wants your approval. And it sounds like you don't approve, and that's too hard for him to handle right now.

[tempmail14]

I don't know if it's hard for him to handle my disapproval or if he's just scared that someone else knows n he wants to protect himself at all costs.

For months I've been feeling like he was trying to get rid of me. I'm questioning our relationship .. what did I mean to him anyway if for months he's been trying to get rid of me?

We had a conversation recently where I confronted him on the fact that I thought he was trying to get rid me (we meet everyday). I openly asked him if he was having a problem with us meeting regularly, I cud step aside .. I told him that I did not want to put any kind of pressure on him bcoz I care abt him .. n I was ready to not meet everyday if that's what he wanted. I feel seeing me everyday is making him very uncomfortable .. guilt I guess .. that's what's putting a lot of strain on us right now .. I told him what he'd said over the past months that made me think that he didn't want me around ...

n then he said he thought it was more than that n the 'issue' was addressed .. he said he thought I was thinking 'this' (altho' I never said anything abt that) .. n then of course he lied thro' his teeth to convince me that if I was thinking anything like that it wasn't true .. he insisted that we continue to meet everyday n that he had no problem with that at all n that he loved me .. (I don't believe any of this now)

but still I showed him love, support, n showed him that I was there for him & that he cud trust me n that I wasn't being judgemental .. he is so guilty that I do not know what to do .. it's putting a severe strain on us n I also feel like I'm in the way .. I want to step aside (bcoz I think that's what he wants) but I can't .. if I move away he'll know y .. if I don't then I feel like I'm in the way .. I'm also afraid that if we don't meet regularly .. we never will .. that will be the end of our friendship .. we're caught in some type of holding pattern .. I really do not know what to do.

I still don't understand y did he 'indirectly' told me what was going on if he wasn't going to be handle my knowing .. if he hadn't I wudn't hv known .. is our relationship going to survive this? (sigh)

[themaster]

Originally Posted by tempmail14

but still I showed him love, support, n showed him that I was there for him & that he cud trust me n that I wasn't being judgemental .. he is so guilty that I do not know what to do .. it's putting a severe strain on us n I also feel like I'm in the way ..

I know you saying you’re not judging.. but your next statement sounds like judgment.. "he is so guilty that I do not know what to do .. " I think the reason you’re still agonizing on this is your still judging..

What is he guilty off??
What crime do you claim he is committed??

Here's the truth.. we don't need to spend a lot of time analyzing/agonizing/apprising any situation.. that's not our job.. it's not our mission..

Our job is to be best we can be at any given moment and hopefully seek out ourselves our energy (excitement, joy etc.)

I think you need to step up and forgive everything instantly.. you don't need to get caught up in these mind games of thinking.. I can't honestly tell what game you’re caught in.. but if I was to guess based on your text.. you’re caught up on belief systems all about your threads subject "lies" and maybe some kind of underlying jealousy issue..

What are you jealous off?
Why do lies offend you?

And why if you’re being lied too.. do you hang on to a relationship that doesn't serve you?

Most normal people if they get lied too.. just refuse to act or engage with that person anymore.. (this is not a bad way to go.. its neutral) some play guilt trip games with them if there say a significant other.. (this is a bad way to go.. this is negative)

[tempmail14]

I'm not jealous of anything. I was hung up on the lies bit but not anymore. reading ur posts helped. I agree I hv to stop with all the analysis. I'm not judgemental. I'm over that n I've clearly shown him that too. I've tried my best to ease his mind but, that doesn't seem to help. He is guilty (don't ask). I'm not agonizing over what he's done but he is.

So what am I worried abt ? --> will our friendship survive this situation? That's it. I will be there for him but I'm just worried that his fear & discomfort may lead him to end our relationship .. that's the only thing I'm worried abt .. but I know I hv to let that go too. If it's meant to last it will, right?

Thanx for your posts every1. You've been a great help. Really appreciate every1 who took the time to post. Cheers.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by tempmail14

I'm not agonizing over what he's done but he is.

That's a shame.. all you can do is be the best you.. he has to work it out for himself..

Originally Posted by tempmail14

So what am I worried abt ? --> will our friendship survive this situation? That's it. I will be there for him but I'm just worried that his fear & discomfort may lead him to end our relationship .. that's the only thing I'm worried abt .. but I know I hv to let that go too.

Yep, sounds like you've got it down good.. though I think you need to not 'worry' that will help

Originally Posted by tempmail14

If it's meant to last it will, right?

In a way.. the truth of the matter is we have a lot of power in any situation even in interaction with others.. the best place to be is yourself from there your power grows..

Originally Posted by tempmail14

Thanx for your posts every1. You've been a great help. Really appreciate every1 who took the time to post. Cheers.

Good luck.. (though technically I don't believe in luck.. I believe we make our own luck)

[tempmail14]

Originally Posted by themaster

That's a shame.. all you can do is be the best you.. he has to work it out for himself..

n that's what I'm doing .. but despite me being as reassuring as I possibly can, it troubles him deeply that I know what's going on. what should I do till he works it out? It bothers me that my prescence makes him so uncomfortable.

Yep, sounds like you've got it down good.. though I think you need to not 'worry' that will help

I'll try not to worry.

In a way.. the truth of the matter is we have a lot of power in any situation even in interaction with others.. the best place to be is yourself from there your power grows..

hmm .. what do you suggest I do in my interaction with him? I am being myself but I don't know if that's enough .. ?

[themaster]

Originally Posted by tempmail14

but I don't know if that's enough .. ?

it is enough!

[tempmail14]

this is not directly related to this thread but .. I was wondering :

people who are more into the way things look, the way people look, the outer show .. ppl who aim to show that everything is going great at any cost even if the inside story is something else .. they resort to deception of all kinds .. n they're willing to do n say anything to put on a good "show" .. they don't seem to value inner beauty, love, etc much .. it's only abt them n how they can use ppl n get their way .. they hv huge egos .. r caught up only with materialistic things .. are they really happy? will they ever be happy?

do the things that u do to hurt others really catch up with u? karma? is there any truth in that ? or do ppl just trod along happily doing whatever they feel like n it's all good?

[themaster]

Originally Posted by tempmail14

are they really happy? will they ever be happy?

I don't claim personal experience in this.. but odds are that you can't be happy living a lie.. it's just for show after all.. maybe someone else can offer personal experience.. (though I do believe you can be happy living a lie too )

do the things that u do to hurt others really catch up with u? karma?

By my understanding that is a no.. there are some on here who claim however that karma does catch up with you.. I just doubt it.. (I believe it to be a opt-in, opt-out system) were all the same being.. why would we want to enact vengeance systems on ourselves?

is there any truth in that ? or do ppl just trod along happily doing whatever they feel like n it's all good?

Pretty much trod along.. (it is all good from my perspective ) when people think of karma they want vengeance.. nothing necessarily wrong with vengeance.. it will make you feel good for a little bit.. but why?? vengeance/retribution has no real long term reward..

[tempmail14]

Originally Posted by themaster

I don't claim personal experience in this.. but odds are that you can't be happy living a lie.. it's just for show after all.. maybe someone else can offer personal experience.. (though I do believe you can be happy living a lie too )

This is what I've bin hearing more n more recently, that people can be quite happy living a lie. It'll probably only disturb them for a bit if they're found out n then they'll just go on as they were ..

By my understanding that is a no.. there are some on here who claim however that karma does catch up with you.. I just doubt it.. (I believe it to be a opt-in, opt-out system) were all the same being.. why would we want to enact vengeance systems on ourselves?

So if nothing catches up with you anyway, you might as well do whatever u want without any regard to anyone else .. u can get away with it n be very happy doing what u're doing .. this isn't the answer I was hoping for .. but like I said .. these days I hear it more n more ..

does anyone have any other views on this based on personal experience?

[Ryan S]

hey everyone

i really need some help and advice please

i need to stop lying to people i dont know why i do it i just do i really want to stop it.. my life is falling apart because of it... i hate it and i want it to go away...

please help me!!!!!!

[drakecatz]

Hi Ryan. my youngest son is named Ryan!

What you should do is go back into the emotional mastery forum and create a "new thread" so people will know you are asking for help.

You'll see the "new thread" at the top left in emotional mastery. A lot of good people have already answered this thread you posted in, so they won't know there is someone new looking for help here. YOU! if you get yourself in the right spot I'm sure you'll start getting help. You need your own thread!

Just rewrite what you already wrote. I have to leave, but I will find your post tomorrow.

[tempmail14]

update