How to deal with an arrogant "guru"?

[sundance]

Dear all,

I'm usually a very friendly and polite person. But sometimes I found some people are just quite rude or arrogant. So far my reaction has always been no to respond. But in my effort to avoid conflict, sometimes I feel hurt or wondering if I'm just being a pushover. I was wondering what's the best way to handle these type of situations.

Here is an example:

I've been reading articles on a website by an "enlightened" meditation guru, and I even bought one of his books from his website. Recently I wrote to him asking for his opinion of a New Age book I read. My email was very friendly & sincere, staring with "Dear xxx".

The response I got is just one line (not even a title/greeting, or not even a thank you for buying the book):

"We don't write about materials that do not come from samadhi attainemnt or
enligthened sages/masters."

I was totally taken aback by the response, as the implied meaning here is that it's not worthy of his comment because it's not from samadhi attainemnt or enlightened sages/masters. But how did he even know it's not from an enlightened source?

I know he's criticized LoA before. For example, he would say "the New Age/LoA crowd knows nothing!". It's because I found some of his criticism offers a different & useful perspective, that's why I asked for his opinion about the book (which is New Age, but not about LoA), hoping that I can learn something from him. But it seems he has some kind of disdain towards all New Age school of thoughts, that he didn't even bother to check out/read the book before making such a comment.

Shall I:

a. just drop it as I normally would do
b. ask him to clarify if he's read the book before making such a judgment about the book
c. send him a sarcastic comment so that he may realize his arrogance

Note: I'm just using this guru thing as a learning experience for me. I welcome any general comments about how to best deal with other people's rudeness/arrogance, as well as comments specific to this case.

Thank you all.

[Gordon]

Originally Posted by sundance

Dear all,

I'm usually a very friendly and polite person. But sometimes I found some people are just quite rude or arrogant. So far my reaction has always been no to respond. But in my effort to avoid conflict, sometimes I feel hurt or wondering if I'm just being a pushover. I was wondering what's the best way to handle these type of situations.

Here is an example:

I've been reading articles on a website by an "enlightened" meditation guru, and I even bought one of his books from his website. Recently I wrote to him asking for his opinion of a New Age book I read. My email was very friendly & sincere, staring with "Dear xxx".

The response I got is just one line (not even a title/greeting, or not even a thank you for buying the book):

"We don't write about materials that do not come from samadhi attainemnt or
enligthened sages/masters."

I was totally taken back by the response. I know he's criticized LoA before. For example, he would say "the New Age/LoA crowd knows nothing!". It's because I found some of his criticism valid, that's why I asked for his opinion about the book, which is New Age, but not about LoA. But it seems he has a sweeping bias against all New Age books.

Shall I:

a. just drop it as I normally would do
b. ask him to clarify if he's read the book before making such a judgment about the book
c. send him a sarcastic comment so that he may realize his arrogance

Note: this guru thing is just a case study for me. I really want to know how to best deal with other people's rudeness/arrogance.

Thank you all.

Or option D. Tell him you thought his reply was nothing short of rude. That way you are telling him what you think, without being a pushover and not entering into a worthless arguement. Then leave it. Try to show your stuff to those who you find encouraging.

That's not to say that we need honesty as well for things that we do, we just need sensible people to give it. It is possible to be brutally honest about things and no be discouraging at the same time.

G

[helgi]

Sounds like it would be useful to just look elsewhere, but here are two points to consider:

1. They might be getting too much email to be able to respond personally to each one, and what you got was a semi-automated or templated reply.

2. It can be difficult to convey feeling via the internet, and I imagine that most spiritual 'gurus' would be fairly naive to the medium. And so some of the things they write may sound overly harsh, whereas it would make more sense coming from them in person.

And then there's the possibility that there is ego involved, which means that the teaching is compromised. When you've come to a certain point of awareness it's fairly easy to separate the false teachers from the true ones, but I can see how it could be a problem on the internet though.

Do you mind sharing the name of the teacher?

[Mayo]

This shamdmi, "guru", "prophet" stuff is almost always a sham! If the person is real then he will not be arrogant, money grabbing S.o.a.B.

I had once an experience with a so called "healer" that because i haven't gotten money with me to give him he threatened me with a pistol and a machete, while my "friend" who got me there did nothing.

My best advice is to cut contact with them. Once you see their arrogance, just turn away, and if you see someone that is in that group just say simple hello and walk pass besides him.

[helgi]

Haha, that's priceless. A pistol and a machete. Was it in India?

[Andrew Brunelle]

Humility is more important than being a guru. Those gurus are mostly in it for the money, and not for helping people. If they are a self-proclaimed guru, then that's even worse. People inflate their sense of self to sell things. When you meet a true master, a true guru, you will not be disappointed, as what they tell you will be the absolute truth and nothing else. No ego involved. Just being.

[andrew]

Yeah, sometimes they get way too many emails and just kind of have to be push off about it. Imaging you get 1000 emails a day asking the same questions. You're not going to be able to answer them all.

If you do mail him back, ask him if that's the case or if he intended on being rude. I like to give the benifit of the doub the first time, then give them the chance to realize what they're saying is wrong and to stop it, then I really give it to them after that. I think that's a lot more fair than most people, esp when I want to give it to them right away.

[sundance]

Hi Gordon,

Thank you very much for your suggestion. I did what you said. Here is his reply:

"I will repeat. We do not comment on any teachers without samadhi attainments. How that is rude is your business, not ours."

The irony of this is that I wrote to him because in his newsletter he was trying to sell me another book of his that talks about best and worst spiritual practices, so obviously he does comment on teachers/school of thoughts without samadhi attainments. I was in for the learning, hoping he could shed some light on the book in question, but I found his smugness about samadhi attainment quite shocking.



Hi helgi,

As you can see by now, it's not a semi-automated reply. And he's not naive to the medium, but rather very savvy about internet marketing because he also writes & sells books on the subject of referral marketing & internet selling, offers people discount if they write testimony about him, sells his products in his newsletters, and cross-sells other people's products through his website.

[AndyMartin]

Something to remember: Spiritual intelligence is completely separate from psychological development, social development, and even ego management. The perception of spiritual teachers is generally embedded with the assumption that an ability to convey spiritual knowledge assures equal development in all other areas, and history shows it just isn't so. In fact, spiritual teachers seem to be more susceptible to ego dysfunction because they themselves believe that the depth of their spiritual experience is validation of the rest of their being, dysfunction and all. And some will even use that spiritual authority to direct students in areas that lie outside their own sphere of expertise. It's easy to meet any opposition from the student with, "That's your ego talking; I'm the teacher, listen to me." It's a big pitfall for those who would be teachers as well as those who would be students.

That's why teachers like Lao Tzu, the Buddha and Jesus are so unique -- they were sublime teachers who also truly checked their ego at the door. And obviously they realized the importance of this because they all warned against ego domination and they all warned against ego-dominated teachers. That is also why they taught that the path to truth and freedom lies within yourself, not through any teacher. Teachers can certainly be helpful, but one has to be very careful about choosing a teacher. And having done so, one should only accept direction in the area that the teacher has demonstrable mastery. Don't take dating/career/etc. advice from someone who's spent their whole life meditating in a cave. Do, however, take meditation advice from them--they're probably really good at that.

Zen Master Seung Sahn said that the teacher is a reflection of the student. I think that a true teacher should help the students find the ability to learn within themselves and help the student remain honest with themselves through their practice. I think it's dangerous to put any more reliance than that on another. (Or to accept it, as a teacher.)

[Mayo]

@helgi"Haha, that's priceless. A pistol and a machete. Was it in India?"

Well all i can say it was in a west European country, but basically it doesn't matter where you are, is it India or US. The most important thing is that you don't ever trust people at the first place!
I personally when this happened even thought of erasing that kind of being off this planet so he can f#ck his fellow Holly Angels around, and not poor little people (he mostly deals with physically and mentally challenged people so he thought i was mentally challenged so he could f#ck around with me too)! I was just starting to open my business at that time(2 yrs. ago) and thought, ok maybe i could also try this stuff with auric healing... well it was a healing: for my REALITY CHECK!
Now when dealing with this kind of scum always be prepared for the worst because it's mostly populated by deranged lunatics! When dealing with "guru's" check his eyes, does he look like the sick raging dog that could bit you any time soon, look him in the eyes and KEEP HIM DISTANT!

[Mayo]

And by distant, i mean really distant!!!

[beroy]

If someone offers you a gift and you refuse to accept it, to whom does the gift belong?

Refuse the gift and move on.

Also, consider the way helgi and Andrew responded. This kind of gift we all need to accept.

Ben

[sundance]

Dear all,

Many thanks for all your replies.

Originally Posted by andrew

Yeah, sometimes they get way too many emails and just kind of have to be push off about it. Imaging you get 1000 emails a day asking the same questions. You're not going to be able to answer them all.

If you do mail him back, ask him if that's the case or if he intended on being rude. I like to give the benifit of the doub the first time, then give them the chance to realize what they're saying is wrong and to stop it, then I really give it to them after that. I think that's a lot more fair than most people, esp when I want to give it to them right away.

Hi andrew,

Yes he probably does get a lot of emails, so I can totally overlook the issue of basic email etiquette, or even if he doesn't reply. Also I would have no problem if it's his policy not to comment on any user-mentioned material. But that's not the issue here.

To reply that "We don't write about materials that do not come from samadhi attainemn or enligthened sages/masters", I just find it quite arrogant or intellectually snobbish - how did he decide that it's not from an enlightened source therefore it's not worthy of his comment? Even if he just gives a simple pointer on the methodology of reaching such a conclusion, that would be instructive.

He replied that if I found it arrogant, then that's my problem and there is something wrong with me. Oh well.:-)

Originally Posted by beroy

If someone offers you a gift and you refuse to accept it, to whom does the gift belong?

Refuse the gift and move on.

Ben

Hi Ben,

Yes I know that. Unfortunately it's easily said than done for me. What I usually do is to choose to ignore and not respond. But I'm not enlightened enough to ignore it completely, so it still triggers a response deep down. Since I choose not to respond, the anger is turned inward, which is not healthy.

I'm usually a very friendly person and prefer harmonious interactions. But sometimes I just felt I was being walked over too much (not necessarily related to this case). I wonder if I'm not assertive enough. And I wonder if part of my life lesson is to fight back & stand up for myself when necessary.

I know refusing the gift is theoretically the best approach. But sometimes I feels it's like "turning the other cheek". I can turn my cheek 9 out of 10 times, but I have to admit occasionally I'm tempted to punch back.:-)

Nonetheless, I admit it would be great if I can reach the state of achieving "refusing the gift" without triggering inner emotions. Any suggestion on how to really achieve that mindset?

Sincerely

[Holistic Star]

I'm going to take a different tack here. I don't think the first reply is that rude. I personally wouldn't take offence at it even thought it was just one line. OK - he could have thanked you for your purchase but the fact that he doesn't comment on other people's work that he isn't familiar with, I think this is a sensible thing to do.

I do however think the second reply was rude and will have lost him future custom. I think his second reply is really ingracious.

[stephencp]

I learned more from Bill Bodri than anyone/where else about enlightenment and the right way to medidate. Bill's stuff (with Master Nan) is light years ahead of everyone else. He is beyond the B.S. that most people are attuned to and worry about. His reply seemed rude to you but I assure you it was not.
Forget about trying to read between the lines to determine whether or not he was "rude" and just read his stuff. You won't be dissappointed.

Stephen
Power-Book Library: Free personal development, success, inspiration and motivational classics

[Jill]

Speaking from the guru's side of the table, when you receive tons of emails asking the same questions over and over again, you will either not answer them at all, or often answer with a quick one or two lines. It doesn't mean you're rude. It doesn't mean you don't care. Often it means that the information you're asking about is available on the website or other places, if you choose to go look for it.

I don't know if the "guru" you're talking about provides a lot of info for free on his website, but if so, it's probably the same for him as for me; people want you to spoon feed them stuff instead of doing a little work to find their answers. If it were just one or two, once in awhile, it wouldn't be a big deal. But when it happens all the time, every day, you do your best to quickly answer the question at hand. This may come off as rude to some, and helpful to others.

Honestly, I don't personally care if I come off rude to people that I'm giving free advice to. They're welcome to do whatever they want with my answers. Some people will love ya, and some will hate ya. Doesn't really make much difference to me.

I think Steve uses a different approach, where he just may not answer the multitude of questions he gets by email. (I could be wrong about that, but thought I've seen him say that before somewhere.)

[JHL]

Both his reponses were rude. I would also have felt irritated and offended. This wasnt about his lack of time to respond - it would have taken the same amount of time to write you two polite lines, as it did to write you two dismissive lines.

If I was looking for a 'guru' or teacher, the first sign I would look for is kindness. You have a right to express your irritation to him, and I'm sure you'll feel better if you do. Just dont expect any concern or understanding from him - it sounds like he's far too enlightened for that

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Jill

I think Steve uses a different approach, where he just may not answer the multitude of questions he gets by email. (I could be wrong about that, but thought I've seen him say that before somewhere.)

I use email templates where possible, but typically only 10% of the email I receive gets a reply at all. To adequately read and respond to all of it would require several hours a day. I usually limit my email time to 15-30 minutes a day though. When I do write a custom reply, it's usually just a single line or two.

The problem with having a popular web site is that you eventually reach the point where there aren't enough slices of your time for everyone who's requesting one. So first, you get used to saying "no" many times a day. Secondly, you get used to people having a negative reaction to your triage decisions. And thirdly, you use that time to focus on your goals, the achievement of which will hopefully help a lot more people than you piss off.

[Traffic]

In answer to the original question: Leave it.

You can't change anyone. I've been guilty of trying to do this on many occasions and no doubt will continue to do so, but I'm learning. Really, the best thing to do, is have a think as to why this bothers you so much.

There's an old Zen saying, which says not to answer a question unless the student asks three times. Why? Because if they ask three times, they're probably very keen to learn and will listen to your advice. If they don't, then you're probably wasting your breath and your time will be much more productive elsewhere. This guy asked a grand total of zero times. He ain't going to listen.

[Velvet]

The guru's reponse "...How that is rude is your business, not ours..." sounds pretty accurate and even generous to me. He has told you that he doesn't comment on books by non-samadhi authors or whatever, and you pressed him and asked again, and he responded with the same information--he didn't call you a bad name, or swear, he just repeated himself in plain language. Can you imagine him saying what he said in a kindly, Yoda-like voice?

If you think he's being rude, it is your business, not his. You can make yourself miserable by feeling bad about the way he phrased his answer, or you can examine your own reaction and see where it came from, or you can give him the benefit of the doubt, or you can just let it go. Or other options I'm not even thinking of.

You could also focus on the positive: the guy has standards....and he took the time to answer your emails not just once but twice....it generated this post that created an interesting discussion...it put you face to face with your own "hot button" issues about gurus, rudeness, etc.

Let us know how you ended up feeling about all this.

[Savage]

Consider it from his perspective. Maybe he frequently gets emails from people asking for his opinion on books he's never read. After a few hundred requests like that, it begins to get a bit stale. I think the fact that you got a response at all is extremely polite. After all, you asked for a slice of his time without offering any real value in exchange.

[John Wesley]

Yes, I tend to agree with Steve. And because you asked him about something that he's openly stated he doesn't believe in, it's likely he thinks you're looking for an argument. Who cares what the 'guru' thinks anyways? Stop worrying about it and form your own opinion.

[helgi]

One of the lessons here, although slightly irrelevant:

Adding a "Dear -insert name-," at the top and something like "Namaste, -Mr. Guru" at the bottom of the templated reply could have completely changed the tone of the messages.

Tiny little touches that can make a world of difference in something like this, especially as the line between sounding arrogant and simply kind but frank can be very thin on the internet.

[Gordon]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Consider it from his perspective. Maybe he frequently gets emails from people asking for his opinion on books he's never read. After a few hundred requests like that, it begins to get a bit stale. I think the fact that you got a response at all is extremely polite. After all, you asked for a slice of his time without offering any real value in exchange.

Sorry Steve, I disagree with you on this one. There is absolutely not excuse for rudeness. Firmness yes, rudeness no. Surely the guru will attract rude people if they themselves are rude?

G

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Sorry Steve, I disagree with you on this one. There is absolutely not excuse for rudeness. Firmness yes, rudeness no. Surely the guru will attract rude people if they themselves are rude?

I know many entrepreneurs who give similar replies. To some people they appear rude, but they're only being expedient. They strive to discourage unnecessary follow-up emails, which politeness often invites.

[TheColonel]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Sorry Steve, I disagree with you on this one. There is absolutely not excuse for rudeness. Firmness yes, rudeness no. Surely the guru will attract rude people if they themselves are rude?

G

Perhaps part of the price of notoriety is that a person must create systems to handle all of the requests for attention.

I know people who are very successful and rich. But they shun fame and notoriety. I think this is why.

Years ago, I worked with extremely famous people. As I entered that industry, people would talk about the celebrities in either one of two ways: He/She's a Jerk - OR - He/She's Pretty Cool.

You never heard "He/She must've been having a bad day when I met Him/Her." There was no middle ground.

What I learned very quickly was that celebrities (or people of note), are bombarded constantly with people wanting a piece of them. If they haven't set up systems to deal with that, they get frustrated and exhausted easily.

It sounds like your guru may need to have his system tweaked.

[Velvet]

Since this post was in the category "emotional mastery" I figured the replies might be more along the lines of, "How can the O.P. handle this better next time for minimum stress?"

But many posters are just agreeing that the guru was rude, or debating his communication methods, and that seems tangential to the topic.

One sure way to make yourself miserable is, like many of the posters above, to decide that everyone has to communicate a certain way, that an email has to be worded a certain way, that people need to give you the answers you want, in order for life to be OK.

Life is OK--sometimes rudeness is in the eye of the beholder--especially in an ambiguously-worded email--and even when rudeness is "real, it's not really something you need to get upset about. Emotional Mastery 101.

[Jill]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

...you use that time to focus on your goals, the achievement of which will hopefully help a lot more people than you piss off.

I love that! Would make a nice blog tagline. I might just steal it...

"Helping a lot more people than I piss off."

[Savage]

During a conference I attended a couple years ago, one of the speakers, Dr. John Demartini, said, "The more people I please, the more people I piss off." So you'll have to give him at least partial credit him for the line.

You can find a blog entry with a full review of that seminar and more quotes from Demartini here -- he was my favorite speaker of the whole conference:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...ers-in-3-days/

[sundance]

Dear all,

Thank you very much for all your replies. Indeed my original goal was what Velvet said: "How can I handle this better next time for minimum stress?"

I used this little incident as a case study for myself, experimented with my interaction approach with others, and learned a lot from all your inputs - all the different perspectives.

At this point, I agree that it's not something I need to get upset about.

Thank you all again for your help.